Need Relationship and Break up Advice PLEASE...

Oh, honey. I'm so sorry you're going through this. You've already received a lot of good advice here, so I'll be brief.

Look at your baby boy. Right now the male role model he has is your man, who is disrespectful and disloyal to you. Your son will learn how a man treats a woman by watching the behavior of the man closest to him. Do you want your son to grow up to treat women the way you are being treated now?

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S., please get some good counseling. I don't know if you go to church or not. If you do, please see your pastor (who won't be shocked by anything you say); if you don't, please ask around for a name of a counselor, or call a good church near you and ask if you may come to talk to someone. I'm recommending a church even if you're not a churchgoer, because if you have little or no money to spend on counseling, that might be your best option.

You may find this hard to accept fully, but the man you describe is not the kind of man you want for a husband. It's good to be patient and generous with other people, especially those you care for, but your best intentions are being twisted up here. He is lying to you, cheating on you (if you were just dating and not living together, you'd still know that his actions are not the actions of a man truly in love with you, right?), and manipulating you (constant calling, suicide threats, etc.) so that you think there must be something wrong with you instead. You say he won't go to counseling - which tells me he's not interested in his doing anything differently. So get help for yourself. Today, if possible. Don't discuss it with him first, don't ask permission, don't pause to see what he'll say about it, don't hope that things will change for the better by themselves, and don't wait.

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Interesting situation. If a man is flirting and talking to other women his intention is to hook up. Yes he may be lonely etc., but this has nothing to do with that. It would be fantastic for him to receive some coaching or counselling, he is dealing with the loss of his support system, the responsibilities of being a father and possibly being a husband. Many people avoid their feelings by distracting themselves with other relationships and diversions. He is definately not husband material if your idea of a husband is monogamous.
Decide what kind of life you want to live, is it one of always wondering if your man is with someone else or is it one of fulfillment, satisfaction and joy. Where do you start? Ask yourself what is important to you, where are you feeling you are compromising and begin to make decisions based on what is good for you and your baby. Remember you are deserving of everything you truly desire. Don't settle for the crumbs - go for what you really desire - I get it's not this guy. Your not responsible for his happiness, you are responsible for yours and for providing a stable home for your son. You are strong enough and worthy enough to have a life of satisfaction, not just survival.

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Sorry darling, you sound like you got a bad apple. There are boundaries within relationships and he has obviously crossed over them... and even worse, tried to justify it.

If you continue to stay with him, which would be awfully nice for your son, you will have to deal with this issue. You know it's there, and staying with him will always leave that nagging wondering about what he's doing when you're not there. A cracked plate will never be the same. It just won't.

As for being single and worrying only about you and your son, well, sorry to say, you gave that up when you had a baby. Kids need parents, and they need parents who are committed to each other - no matter what. You don't have that. You want it. I hope that someday you get it.

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If you love him and want to try to work it out, lay out the ultimatums (counseling, get married, etc.). Tell him if he breaks one, you are gone, and that he only gets ONE more chance.

No more chances. My neighbor just went thru this. He won't stop....he'll just get better at hiding it from you. One day you'll catch him at it again...and he'll just shrug like 'oh, you had to have known all this time'.

Breaking up looks like the harder choice...but you'll both be happier.

I know that this is a sad and stressful time for you, but if you re-read the letter you posted, you'll see the answer. If he doesn't believe he is doing anything wrong, he will continue this behavior. People do not call late night phone lines or send suggestive texts looking for friendship. If he hasn't acted on these temptations already, I think he will. You didn't say how much you love him, or talk about any reasons you would want to be with him, other than your son and a shared phone plan. I think you're right, and this could be a nightmare in the courts, but will it be better the next time, a few months or years down the line?

Do you honestly think there is anything you can do to stroke his ego and keep him happy enough with himself to stop this behavior? If your answer is yes, I'm all for trying to make it work(provided you really love him), but you need to ask yourself if you can keep this up for the rest of your lives! I would also suggest counseling, but you said he is not open to it.

This is a big decision, and I'm really sorry to hear what you're going through. I added my two cents, but ultimately, you need to live with the decision. One more thing I noticed is that you were interested in dating. That doesn't sound to me like you're very attached to this guy. Good luck!

My philosophy is: once a cheater, always a cheater. Even if he quits seeing girls for a while, he will probably go back to his habits eventually. If you want to stay with him, you should probably insist on couple therapy. If he won't commit to it, I'd say it was a deal killer. If you really want to move on, you need to get legal custody settled in the courts and sever all joint accounts.

Good luck to you. I know this is a hard decision.

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I know someone dealing with something very similar. They had just bought a house together, had a daughter and she caught him "talking" to other women. Believe me, the conversations are not innocent and it is most definitely cheating. You need to end this relationship, especially since he won't take responsibility, get help and stop his behavior. But be careful. You might be considered Common Law married. If you are and you don't get a divorce decree, you could experience problems in the future. My friend is going through court to prove Common Law marriage. If it is proved they are Common Law then they can move forward with a divorce; if they are not deemed Common Law than it will be an easier end to their relationship and can then deal with custody. You may want to talk to an attorney to make sure you've got your bases covered. Since he is adamant on keeping you (you are not property) he may try to use this to leverage you to stay with him or to ruin your attempts at starting over without him.

S.,

I know you are in a delicate place right now, but I personally think you know the answer.

Some of the behaviors that you mention are known traits of abusive partners. It can easily escalate. Keeping you around or not letting you go are not going to make him better--I promise.

Be good to yourself and let this go before you have more to worry about than a shared phone plan. Your son is something you will need to deal with, but if handled correctly everything will work out.

Good Luck--J.

I'm sorry you are hurting so much.
My advice - walk away. Going back to someone like this is not healthy.
Get a new phone plan for yourself and take whatever other steps you need to be independent.
Find support in the form of a counselor, friends who can give good advice, maybe a women's group or church group if you are inclined... if money is an issue, many counselors do offer sliding scales, but please, get support and help for yourself.
Take care and good luck.

I have a few thoughts to throw at you. I just went through a divorce and my husband used to same guilt trips that your boyfriend is using on you. He told me that he would commit suicide without me and it has been a year and a half single but he's still around. We have a five year old together and he is just fine. I tolerate the man for my son. He also liked to get his mother involved and his mother even told me that she would pay for anti-depressants for the me if I would stay. He made sure to convince his mother that everything was my fault. Your boyfriend is playing mind games with you. I also had a previous relationship where the man wanted to always get his 'ego boost' from other women. It is a self-esteem issue and it will never go away without help. This man had me convinced that he would never cheat on me but I had friends tell me that he was trying to get them in the sack. He did it before and he will keep doing it again. Personally, if a man can not be exclusive to me than I will stay single! I have not dated and do not know if I can tolerate the BS anymore. My thoughts would be to go and love yourself and you child and remember you are setting a big example for your offspring.

Somebody early in your life taught you that it's okay for a man to walk all over you. They were wrong. Unwind this. He doesn't respect you AND he's not worth keeping. You don't stay with a complete bum because of a stupid cell phone contract!

Go live with your parents or another dear relative. The boy will be lost without a male role model. Find a relative who's male, like your Dad, and live there. Women cannot teach boys how to be men--only men can do that. (I don't need a lecture on rare exceptions.)

You're stuck dealing with this guy until your son's 18. DO NOT DATE. You agreed to so many WRONG things with this relationship, you're going to need quite a few things to learn and grow so that you never again pick a loser, disrespectful guy, and never agree to do the "pretending he wants to marry me" living together thing.

Listen to Dr. Laura. She'll make these mistakes very, very clear and help you adopt more virtuous, respectful behavior patterns.

He will not stop flirting with other girls. Virtually all bad behaviors get worse as we get older, except for the rare people who give up their bad behaviors, such as quitting smoking, etc. This guy's flirting will turn into cheating. Anger turns into battery. Drinking each night turns into alcoholism. I wish somebody had told me that when I was young. I kept thinking all the people around me would "change". Nobody changes, except for a rare few.

What is your gut instinct? I don't think he will change. He's taking them to lunch, but not looking for anything? If that's the case, he needs to find male friends to hang out with.

Try counseling - clergy can do this, often at no cost if your insurance doesn't cover it. Otherwise, keep your head up, believe in yourself and find someone who cares about YOU.

I do believe people can change, but they have to WANT to change. I think you were smart to move out and give yourself a place away to think with a clear head. I think that if your relationship with this man is to work out that you will need to set some very clear boundaries and know what your deal breakers are. I think all people have the potential to cheat and have an affair but to affair proof relationships takes hard work on the part of both people. it doesn't mean babysitting but it does mean having a healthy respect for one another, and at this point in time you can't have that for him, and if you let him continue to do this to you, you won't have respect for yourself. Give him a list of the must do's to get back into a relationship with you and make him court you back. If it were me, it would include him going to therapy, changing phone numbers to cut off all contact with other women. I wouldn't move back in with him until after there is a wedding if you do get back together, he's a have your cake and eat it too kind of guy and it will continue if you maintain the same patterns with him. Let him know if you love me you will love only me. I deserve that and if you want to be that man in my life then be that man in my life. Otherwise let me move on. I will move on unless you are willing to give me the respect I deserve by not flirting with other women etc.
as for avoiding court, you have a son together, I don't know if that will be possible. Besides he will need to be responsible for helping out with the child financially. and you will want him in your sons life.
I would see an attorney just so that you have a sound financial plan for yourself if it doesn't work out. You have a kid involved now you won't be able to just walk away from the relationship, there will be involvement if you break up, and I pray there would be that this man would still be a good father. Yes, demand respect for yourself, and take care of the You in this but remember that you have another important person to be concerned with their well being in all of it too, and that is your child.
for help with the relationship and dealing with cheating and recovery from that check out www.marriagebuilders.com

I'm sorry to hear what you've been going through. In my opinion, I don't think you should put up with that. I know it's difficult having ties with a child, all the other stuff (phone, home) can be worked out. But you need to ask yourself it it's worth it, and is it worth it for your son. If you think so, you should demand he goes to counseling. Sounds like you guys have a problem with communication, so an outside party can always help both of you to see what is actually going wrong. And I know you said he refuses, but you need to make an appointment, tell him when it is, and if he's not there, that was his last chance. But if you don't see a change in him from that, then send him packing. You don't need that in your life, and after the hardship of the initial breakup, he should be able to man up and still be a good father. I know break up's are hard, but you'll feel less stressed out once it's really over for good. But at least if you try counseling at first, then you'll really know that you tried everything you could.

S.,
I am really sorry to hear of your situation. I went through a similar situation with my ex husband, however we did not have children together. He did have 3 children with his previous wife that I had taken in and grown to love though. My ex said the exact same things....First, I think that if you truly love someone and you are willing to do anything to be with them and think you would die to not be together..why would you not go to counseling? Second, if a guy has got problems or needs someone to talk to other than you, why would he not go to family or friends? (my ex also did the dating phone call lines along with chat rooms) Even if you live away from family or friends why can't you call them if you can call a singles line.
You need to trust your insticts, if your gut is telling you something is wrong, then something is wrong. Of course no one can leave until they are damn good and ready (it took me 5 times) but you will know if its worth fighting for or if you would rather start over and pick up the pieces. I grew up in a home where my mom stayed with my alcoholic father "for the sake of us kids" and I don't believe that it benefited me or my brothers to see and hear and live through the things that we did.
No matter what you decide it will be hard, once that trust is broken even staying together is difficult. Its always good to hear other opinions about what you should do but you will know in your heart whats the right decision for you and your little boy.
Good luck to you.

S., this is hard stuff.
If you're not married, you have no 'contract' with him, and technically he doesn't legally have to do anything for you or your son. I'm sure there are ways to force the issue, but is that what you really want?

In my opinion, if you want your son to have a father full time, if you want this man to be your husband, take action!
Take action in a positive manner with yourself first, what can you change/focus on yourself to make a happier home? what can S. do to be that attentive listener your man apparently craves? Everything else follows after this.

It IS true that people don't change unless they want to. Unfortunately it is NOT our place to tell another how & when to change. In my experience it always backfires.
Pray about it, do what your heart tells you is best for your son.
Good job mommin'!

I agree with Bonnie B. Sure he might "change" but if he's doing this for an ego boost, how long do you think that change will last? If he honestly is just looking for "someone to talk to", why not go to the gym and find a male racquetball buddy, or male buddies from work? You are only 3 years into it with him - think about if you get married, have another kid or two, really rack up debt, etc. He then has a "mid-life crisis" and acts on one these ego-boosts. You and your kids will be too emotionally invested to make a change then - it will be much harder. No one can tell you what to do with your life, this is just my opionion. Good luck, hon!

One of the things that you said that struck me strongly was: "...he was what I thought was my future and happy ending." This is how many of us have given our power away. We find a man, make him our whole world, project our happiness outside of ourselves, and then find ourselves lost, confused, sad, and angry, and very alone. I believe that we each need to take our power back. We each need to become 100% responsible for our own well-being. We need to confront our own fantasies and be willing to look reality right in the face. Dealing with 'what is', as opposed to what it 'should' be or what we wish it to be, is the only way we heal and create the life that is best for us.

I was married to a sex-addict for 17 years. All the excuses, reasoning, begging forgiveness, deception, etc. sound so familiar. I'm not saying your fiance is an addict however the behaviors are similar. His behavior shows he is unwilling to take responsibility for his own actions. Needing an "ego boost" is a sign of insecurity and a need for outside validation that is not likely to ever be fulfilled especially by just one person. He would need to realize all the inner reasons why he needs that "ego boost" and heal those issues before he could be in a healthy relationship.

I agree that people can change and that it is only when they want to change. Your asking/forcing him to go to counseling will not work. It has to be his choice. What you can definitely do is go to counseling for yourself. Start pulling in every resource you possibly can to support your healing process. This is the part in which we take 100% responsibility for our own well-being. Read books on relationships, addiction, co-dependency, and self-care. Go to counseling for yourself, find a woman's group to support you, find a woman that has been where you are and has found a new way of being to mentor you, discover what your needs are, learn about good parenting skills. Resourcing yourself is the only way you can ever move from surviving to thriving.

Often we must look at our lives and start asking the hard questions. Is this working for me? What do I want? How can I heal what is inside of me that has brought this type of relationship into my life? What does this relationship have to teach me about my own patterns? Also, we come to a place where we get to choose for ourselves what we think is best for our lives as opposed to clinging to all the "shoulds" that others have put on us and to let go of blaming.

Deciding whether to stay in a relationship or not, especially when there are children, is never an easy thing to do. However, I found that once I started to care for myself, heal my own issues, and started to clearly look at all the red flags right in front of me, I was able to see what was best for my children and for myself and to make the decision with a sense of peace. I was more able to see clearly and to create a divorce that was supportive of everyone. When the process became painful I would reach out and resource myself in as many ways as I could: call a friend, see my therapist, have a good cry, watch a funny movie, take a walk in the park, etc.

I am still on my journey and yet I am in a good place. I feel empowered, I support other women in being empowered, my ex and I co-parent well, my children also feel empowered to express how they feel and to communicate with me. Best wishes to you on this journey. In support of You, T.

It sounds like he's enjoying playing both sides of the field. He is taking advantage of the fact that you're not married to let him feel okay about flirting with other women, go on dates (that's what lunch is, right?), etc. And he's got the security of knowing you're there, his "fiance," and that he can use that to get rid of any interests you have. It sounds like it's time for you to move on one way or the other.

I would say that, unless there is a firm date, with plans going forward toward the wedding, you're not engaged. So unless he is willing to commit (by setting a date less than a year away and stopping seeing other women) it's time for you to end it.

First, cancel your phone on the shared plan. You may have to pay early cancellation fees, but that's better than being stuck with him using it to contol you (if it's all in his name, great, just give him the phone back and be done).
Do everything you can to get your name off of his debts and visa versa. For debts you are willing to assume, you may be able refinance them into just your name. But you're going to have to assume that anything with both your names on it could end up as your debt - he could stop paying and let the creditors come after you. Cancel all cards & revolving debt like this. The home is going to be another trick, if it's in both your names. If you've got a mortgage, you'll probably have to sell (either he buys your half by refinancing in his name, or you sell the house all together) unless you're able to take it over and refinance in your name (also make sure to get the title switched!!) If you're renting, you can move out and pay the early lease termination fees if you have to.

As far as your baby, if he is on the birth certificate, you can get him to pay child support (he may be able to get visitation benefits). But even though you were never married you might need a lawyer for that.

This is going to be a financial and emotion struggle for a bit. But it's less than if you were married - you don't have to go through the divorce process as well. It really sounds like you are better off without him. Find a man who will love you and devote himself to you and no other woman - that's what marriage is about. (Stop defending him as lonely and just needing someone to talk to. All guys go through that. He needs a buddy, not some girl from a singles line or wherever that he wants to flirt and date.)

It sounds like it might be best for a while if you have someone else to live with - family or a good friend. Don't give him your new phone number, and if he keeps coming around and bothering you file a restraining order. Be extra alert and make sure to tell plenty of close friends and family if you feel at all threatened, stalked or harrassed by him.

I guess my advice is all going to this - get out. Leave the relationship and sever all ties, especially the financial ones. Move on and take care of your needs and your baby's. You will some day find someone better.

I agree with Geneva and Katrina. Lots of good advice. You know the right answer.