Marriage vs Living Together

I don't understand why if it's just a piece of paper, then people can't just get it done? It's not just about paper. It's about, honor, commitment, respect, loyalty, and willing to take that step to show they legally, morally, publicly...will stand by you forever. A REAL, tangible, binding, declarative commitment. I think it's a problem, if a man is not willing to do that. No, I would never be a with a man who was not willing (and wanting) to do that with and for me. It's not about the paper, it's about the devotion.

I view people who are living together but won't get married, as having one foot out the door. Meaning, it's a psychological out. Yes, I do believe people feel less stuck without that "piece of paper." I have known couples who have lived together for years and years who broke up. The leaving party did admit that is was easier for them to decide to leave, because they weren't married. Just a thought.

To spin it a different way for you, if it's "just a piece of paper", then why couldn't he just marry you to honor you?

If a man couldn't sign "just a piece of paper" to honor me, he's not worth my time.

But that's just my opinion, to each his own.

It actually would be a deal breaker for me. My husband kept bugging me to get married because he "wanted to make an honest woman out of me". He wanted it to be legal and everyone know we are committed and in it forever. I think if you are just "living together", even for 13+ years, there is always that feeling that its just that, living together, without a "real" committment. Just my opinion, but I would not want that for myself OR have it as an example to my children. Which is another issue, I'm not a fan of kids born out of wedlock. Again, just my opinion. Good luck.

Honestly, I don't know why people get so up in arms about living together. My family basically disowned me (thank God! they are a bunch of whack-a-doos anyways) when I moved in with my boyfriend 11 years ago. Though I was painfully young, he did become my husband and we now are happy and successful in life and in marriage with a child and one on the way.

But, something I will say without getting too over analytical is that marriage *is* different. I can't say exactly why because there are a thousand littleish reasons...the legal protections for yourself and your children, the active commitment to each other that you make in the eyes of the law and the HUGE barrier in place to end the union. Divorce is costly.

Things DO change when you are married. For example, my husband works and I stay at home. If something happened to him, I would be entitled to spouse benefits which is hugely important because I'm not earning money at this time and it may take me awhile to get my earning up to a place where I can support myself and our children. And not only that, as he progresses in his career...let's say we did get a divorce, well, the judge will see the investment that we've made in our lives together and through my commitment to the marriage and to the home and supporting his career and working full time while he was in school, it shows that I'm entitled to a fair portion of our assets and his income for a period of time...like a severance.

So those are the legal and financial considerations, but all of that reminds you there is a lot at stake and it makes you work harder to stay together. It's an additional reason to stay together.

And finally, I think of it like this: If you could, would you pluck a child out of the foster system but choose to not adopt them, just promise to be their parent forever? Is there a difference between adopting a child legally and formally and just informally becoming their parent? Why?

You can love each other and trust each other with everything you've got, but that ring and piece of paper means that even in the hardest times you can KNOW that there was an active decision made that because of love and commitment you will stay together even in the hard times.

But why OTHER people think it's their business?? I have no freaking clue.

I think some people confuse a bad marriage with marriage being bad.

Biblical reasons aside - which I happen to agree with :)

Let's address the legal reasons.....

If something happens to either of you, since you are not related by blood or marriage, you cannot make life saving (or ending) decisions for each other.

If one of you dies there is no legal ground to ensure the other will be allowed to raise your step children - or even maintain a relationship with them.

If one of you dies you will not receive widow/widower's Social Security benefits.

If one of you dies without a will in place - chances are that you will not inherit anything - the children may - but not the adults.

There are many structures in place in our society that are designed to protect spouses and spouses' rights. Without marriage you are leaving yourself at risk in a number of areas.

Also, what NIKKI G. said

:)

Here's the way I see it:

When you live together without marriage, you commit, you promise, but only to each other.

When you get married, you publically commit and publically promise to each other, your family, your community, the government, and God (if applicable). And this would make a certain amount of sense since all of the aforementioned are effected by your relationship with your SO, and likewise will be effected by the END of your relationship with your SO.

I did not always feel this way. But then I am only just now learning what real commitment is. And like your SO, I'm just not really sure I'm up to it.

My $.01.

:)

I am a religious person (shocking I know), and marriage means so so so so much more to me than just a "piece of paper" or a ring.
I am not sure I would ever be willing to have children with someone I wouldnt be willing to marry.
That is what I want for ME and my children.
To answer your question... Why do people care so much about what you do? I do not. Im doing me, you do you!

Meh, well, my view is to each his own. It's no one's business how a person chooses to live their lives. Some people live by the motto, 'Everyone is entitled to my opinion.'

With that being said, and since you asked, for me, I think it's best to be married. In my mind, I am more cooperative and more committed because I know we are in it for life. We are legally bound. It would be in best interest to make it work. The religious aspect has little to do with it for me. I feel like by not being married there is no safety net, no recourse. For me, I need some finality to it.

But that's just me!

EDIT: I lived with my husband for a long time before we got married. Believe me, it's not the same.

EDIT again: I ran into an ex not to long ago. He told me that he was going to be a dad. He and his girlfriend do not live together. I asked what his next step was and he told me they will just live together. He went onto say that when he never believed in marriage (I do) and never told me. He says his new girlfriend doesn't believe in marriage either (I'm VERY skeptical because he can be pretty persuasive about that). Looking back, he ALWAYS had one foot out the door...the entire time. I used to think he was the best man a woman could have. Until I met my husband. He is very committed to his family. He puts us before anything. Before I met a man who was really interested in having an honesty family, I thought my ex was the best thing going. Where in reality, he was just concerned with having a way out just in case. I am SO GLAD I dodge that bullet!

Actually, it's a lot more than just a piece of paper. It gives you certain protections and benefits should anything happen to one or the other of you. If he's in the hospital in the ICU, most hospitals won't let you in because you're not considered family. (Sometimes nurses will make an exception, because a lot of nurses think it's ridiculous.)

Plus if he dies without a will, you have no rights to his property or anything else. Everything will go into probate and the courts decide what happens to it.

Just some thoughts.

Because the word "divorce" doesn't scare you. I'm on your side - live together until the cows come home. But being married a second time, older in life with a ton more maturity, and sobriety - I know what the word "commited" means, and to me that didn't come necessarily with the piece of paper, but coincidentally it arrived not long after.

Let me explain by way of joke - In your morning breakfast of ham and eggs - the pig was 'commited' to its preparation, the chicken merely involved.

Marriage, to me is really just a symbol. It is certainly legal entanglements - but you can create (purposefully and accidently) those by the "living together" arrangement. The wedding ring to me says I put my money where my mouth is. I, in one fell swope, take on the responsibility of being dedicated to my partner, legally tied at the hip in the storm of life, no-take-backs say I'm hers.

It was just easier for me to say all that on a Saturday evening on a beach in Maui, than it was to explain my level of commitment every time someone asks. :)

It's easy to say the only difference is a "piece of paper", but I think that for people that take marital vows seriously/literally, there is a whole other level of commitment that goes into being married versus living together.

I find it ignorant and hypocritical when people who aren't into marriage try to belittle it by reducing it to a raggedy scrap. That's not what it is at all. I'm not saying that's what you are doing. I'm just saying...

Anyway, I can't quite express it in words, but for me, the love, bond and commitment of marriage doesn't feel at all like dating someone or living together and it feels nothing like a piece of paper.

I see a lot of people that have no interest in being married and it doesn't bother me. That's their business, their life. I won't put down their form of commitment and would appreciate a reciprocation in the courtesy and respect.

It is puzzling, though, when people say they want to get married, but aren't ready for the commitment of marriage, yet, they have children together.
I will never understand how/why people don't see having children with someone as much (if not more) of a commitment as getting married.

Ultimately, if you are content with the way you live your life then nothing anyone else thinks, says, or writes should make a difference.

Sorry but marriage is not merely a piece of paper.
It's a legal state.
It establishes each of you as each other's next of kin.
It gives you rights with regard to medical care (deciding, heaven forbid, if the plug should be pulled or not), inheritance and many times benefits.
I've heard of girl friends / fiances who were put out on the street after the boy friend died and nothing was in the girl friends name - his parents were legal next of kin and they said 'Buh bye, now get out' and it's perfectly legal.
If you love each other, you want to make sure you take care of each other now and later until one of you dies.
That means dealing with the little legalities so that the piece of paper establishes you collectively as a family unit.

You've gotten some good answers here. For me, I don't think I'd want to be with someone for an extended period of time (let alone have kids!) with someone who wouldn't marry me. The marriage document, to me, is very important. Just like when you buy a house or car, take out a loan, or even write up a weight loss goal, it MEANS something. It's a declaration, a promise, a physical document that you have signed that says you will pay back/lose weight/be committed to the other party. Marriage goes much deeper than a home loan, don't get me wrong; but since so many more people these days are choosing to live together and not get married, have kids with their partner at the time, etc..marriage itself is becoming more of a luxury good, you know? Other people can do what they want..but I like knowing the ability to legally call my husband a "husband" is a luxury to me.

Hi A.,
You have some great answers in regards to the legal benefits of marriage already so I won't go there. I lived w/ my husband before we married because we moved up to the central coast of CA to attend university. We lived together for a year before marrying. This was purely a financial decision for us; seemed silly to rent two separate places and we knew no one else there.

It doesn't bother me when couples live together w/out a license, but when they start having children together, that's when my view changes. I'd bet that most children would want their parents to be married, not just living together. We have some friends who have been living together for probably 8 years now. She had a son from a previous marriage and now they have a daughter together. I can't figure out why they just don't tie the knot already. We were over there the other day and her son brought it up in front of everyone. He's 12 and he wants them to get married. Desperately. (They've been "engaged" for 6 years now!) Heck, even Brad Pitt and Angela Jolie's kids are pressuring them to get married and they've said that they probably will soon because their kids want it so badly.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts ...

Added: I'd just like to say that your SO is really copping out on this one and it's not fair to you and the kids, to tell you the truth. You've been together 13 years, for heaven's sake! LOTS of people come from families w/ broken marriages or marriages that sucked. My husband is one of them. He's an adult now. Time to leave the past in the past and go forward. I would never put up with that excuse (because that's what it is, really).

I lived with my husband before I married him. To me, being married *is* different - there are, of course, the legal rights that come with it, but there's more too. It's hard to explain, but it's just different. If something happened to my husband, I'd never cohabitate again (of course I might just opt to never date again either).

That said, I've been married ~ 8 years and have friends who have had "unmarriages" for 20-30 years. I'd be a fool if I thought their relationships were less valuable or stable than my own. I wouldn't do it their way. They wouldn't do it mine. C'est la vie. Still, I hope they've taken care of power-of-attorney, inheritance issues, etc. I don't ask - not my business - I'd just hate to see them denied what they'd each want the other to have.

I *also* have friends - and family - who have been together decades upon decades upon decades - who have to live in specific states (not this one) to legally marry - and I consider them married regardless. Yet I am all too aware of the legal hoops they jump through to provide for each other's rights and care in the absence of marriage.

So...no judgement here. But given how hard some couples have to fight for rights they'd have automatically if married, you and your beau might want to make sure you have that aspect covered.

Best to you,
e

I don't have an issue with it. I lived with my SO for 23 years, owned a home and business and had a child. We did decide to get married 5 years ago - simply because it made some of the child logistics easier. If you are already committed to each other, it really is just a piece of paper - but it does make introductions at parties easier.

I regard making a home and family together as a much greater commitment than what Brittany Spears and Newt Gingrich have had in their lives. I regard it as horribly offensive that gays cannot marry in every state in our country.

If you are not married (and actually even if you are) it is a good idea to have a will, and end of life directive and power of attorney. You can state in your will who you wish to raise your children, who will be the trustee to manage their money and make other financial decisions for them.

And just one final edit. Do people think that because they are married they should stay forever - whether or not they still love each other and whether or not they are unhappy. If that is the case - I vote for living together hands down. Why would someone want a commitment to misery?

I felt like you do for many, many years. I am 52 years old and I got married for the first and only time when I was 45. Like you, I thought what's the difference? I lived with my daughter's father for 8 years. I lived with my now husband for well over 10 years before we married.

Here's the difference:

First, when you're 45 and you're introducing your SO as your boyfriend, rather than husband, I don't know, I just felt stupid. Also, in conversation I couldn't say my husband this or my husband that - it had to be my boyfriend. Again, I felt like a high school kid talking about my boyfriend. Obviously that doesn't bother you, but I'm just telling you how I felt.

Second, it's hard to explain but you do feel differently knowing that you're married and that you have made a lifetime commitment. It just feels more solid and permanent. It's a great sense of security.

So, I don't know why others have a problem with married or not, I'm just saying that for me there was a difference.

Good for you for living the way that best suits YOU!!!

Here is the problem with marriage and biblical ramifications - the lack of separation of church and state.

Why should anyone's God dictate who should get married (straight, gay, biracial marriage)? I think that all religious people need to think beyond their own religion and beliefs. Just believe in what you want and do what is right for you - why must people bring their religious beliefs into everyone's world. Haven't we learned yet that religion and state don't mix?

By the way, I am religious - I just understand that there are people out there who are not me who should live their lives as they see fit - as long as they are not hurting anyone. No old white guy (I'm white, too) should have to tell me who I have to marry or what I can/cannot do with my body.

To me it is a public and legal and spiritual sentiment to stand before the world and say I do and I pledge myself to another person. I like the perks that marriage has to offer. We are bound to eachother legally and spiritually. I wouldn't have it any other way. In my opinion if someone wants to cohabitate and have children together why not get married??? Or is it just another way to make sure there's an easy way out if things suddenly don't work out. I can't and won't tell people what they should do but you do have to ask yourself why is there a hang up with either or both partners about getting married?

This isn't directly on point, but have you got living wills and powers of attorney etc? Just curious, because most states don't seem to recognize common law spouses in end of life or other major decisions, but they will let married spouses make such decisions for one another. Your partner sounds lovely and the type of person you would want making these decisions if you were unable to make them for yourself. Have you considered and planned for these issues?

I was in love with a guy before I met my husband. We lived together for 4 years. I desperately wanted to marry him, have kids with him, make a life together. He wanted to live together. I thought that if I stayed with him, made the starting of a life together with him, lived with him, that he would change his mind. That he would see that I was a GREAT catch. That he would finally want to marry me. nope. He never wanted *that* kind of commitment.
He was a great guy. He fixed my car, he was so funny, he took care of me, he was a good lover, he was a good friend...but he didn't love me enough to make it official. I wasn't going to wait around for him to figure out how amazing I was. I broke it off.
I was crushed. I loved him so much! But then....I picked up the pieces. I moved on. I fell in love again with a man that WANTED to marry me! Wanted to shout from the rooftops that *I* was his one and only. That he was committed to me and to our children.
For ME there is no greater showing of love than to marry the person that you want to build a life with.
BUT....you seem happy with your arrangement! So great! Far be it from ME to judge your relationship. I absolutely believe that you are happy and in love and in a great relationship...however....you need to protect yourself legally. The house, bank accounts, medical (like people getting sick and/or dying) are all things that are worked out in a marriage OR god forbid a divorce. If your boyfriend decided to up and leave or YOU decided to...there is not much to protect either one of you.
I don't care what ANYONE does in their private life...live it up! But, protect yourself too.
L.

My daughter has a best friend whose parents are not married. There are two children, 16 and 11. The oldest one is embarassed by her parents because they are not married.
I don't care what people do with each other, but I believe children have a better chance of happiness if they are raised in a two parent household with married parents. A man and a woman.
Too bad we cannot go back to the old standard of waiting for sexual activity until marriage.

Make sure you see a lawyer to protect your interests in case he dies. AND have a living will for both of you. It is TERRIBLE that a significant other such as yourself will have no say in favor of family that may not have seen you or your husband for years, don't know your wishes, and can actually keep you or your SO from being together in the hospital if something bad happens.

Really and truly, cover your bases here.

Dawn

Dawn said it perfectly.
Marriage is a legal and binding contract, without it you and your children are at the mercy of the state/court, should anything happen to your partner.
I don't care how much you "love" a man, if you have kids together you owe it to THEM to ensure that you are committed, not just in your own eyes, but in the eyes of the law as well.
Why do you think gays are fighting so hard for marriage equality? It's not just about a ceremony and a piece of paper, it is about basic legal rights for themselves and their children.
If your SO still has "issues" at this point in your relationship I'm sorry but I think he needs to grow up and be a man already (I come from a world class dysfunctional family and yet that doesn't make ME afraid of commitment!) If he won't marry you, and if you are okay with that, then PLEASE make sure you BOTH have living wills in place so that both you and your children are protected by law.

It's all good until someone gets sick or heaven forbid dies then it can get complicated and funky. I've lived long enough to see just how terribly funky it can get in both cases with many unwed couples. Doesn't mean that married couples don't have their share of stuff but...

As long as you are happy, he is happy, and your kids are happy and well taken care of, that's what matters most.
Marriage would offer all of you some extra legal benefits in case something catastrophic happened to you or him, but other than that, it's all about the relationship. The paper and the ring don't change that.

In terms of finances, custody, rights of inheritance, health care, and many other important legal things it may very much matter. Every state's laws around whether or not long-term relationships are treated like marriages is different. Legal marriage comes with very clear sets of rights and responsibilities. Living together doesn't.

If you haven't done so already, you may want to meet with a family law attorney to draw up whatever papers you need to ensure that in a crisis, you each have the rights and responsibilities that you might presume to be the case if you were married. For example, he's not your next of kin. Unless you have a legal document stating that you want him to be your healthcare proxy if something happened to you and you were unable to make your own healthcare decisions, someone else in your family would be making those decisions for you. If something happened to you and you don't have a will, your assets would revert to your next of kin, who is another adult family member, not your boyfriend (or your kids - they're not legally old enough to inherit). These are two example of things that a legal marriage would default to that simply living together doesn't.

Legal, moral and ethical reasons. If something happens to either one of you, the benefits are there for the other spouse and children. I understand both sides of the issue. I just personally would not be satisfied with being with someone, playing house etc with them without a full 100%, both feet in commitment. (marriage). Without it, they could leave at any point with no repercussions and thats not good enough for me. As far as marriage goes,its so much more than a piece of paper and or legal document.

I lived with my husband before marriage and don't judge anyone who chooses to do that. I do think there are a lot of legal issues that can come up with an unmarried couple as opposed to a married one.
If life goes wrong in many ways people have mentioned here you may have problems. I would not put my kids future at risk because your husband has issues from childhood. Just be really sure you have the all the same legal rights as his live in girlfriend that you would as his wife, my guess is you do not.

It's between you and God. It's not anyone else's place to judge.

Once again I agree with Nikki, if it just means a piece of paper to you, then why not?
Marriage vows mean more to me, and so does the paper it's on,I made a convent with God and my husband, one that I will keep. I've only been married to my husband for 9 years, but we've been together for 19. We've had our ups and downs. I've been of christian belief, just not always following what I know is right. I love being married and love saying I'm his wife.
I wouldn't judge you or anyone else who's not married, but I won't lie, why not get married then? If you are so committed to this person what is wrong with making it official?

Bible belt...living in sin, adultery, fornication...all phrases we had pounded into us from birth up. Living together today is accepted much more than it was 10 or even 20 years ago. It's assumed people get married for the commitment issue but to me the benefits of marriage outweigh living together.

The facts now are, if he is in an accident you are NOT his next of kin. He "can" sign papers giving you power of attorney over his body in the event he is injured and on life support and cannot make decisions for himself. If those papers do not exist then you may be allowed to make choices but if it comes down to turning off a machine or something like that they will require some sort of proof you have the legal right to do so and you will not have that.

If he died tomorrow you would have to go to court and go through all kinds of legal hoops to get any benefits from him.

If he is getting SS or some other type of retirement at some time in the future and he dies, you will not get any of it. Most widows draw SS on their husbands if they were homemakers and did not work. If they did work they still draw the SS on the husbands wages since it is actually more money if drawn from them due to men usually making more money.

Most girlfriends can't be carried on the boyfriends insurance. They cannot be listed as beneficiaries in some insurance companies either.

The taxes. A married couple can file jointly and get the married status. A couple living together cannot do that.

I do think a lot of laws are going to change and some may already have done so. The gay/lesbian movements for equal rights is going to continue to force changes for all sorts of couples.

I think its to each thier own.

I had an aunt/ uncle that weren't married but lived together for 15 years. They decieded that they would get married. they said it was just the fact that they "had" to stay together got to them. They divorced a year later, got back together 6 months later and have been together again for the past 8 years.

Marriage isn't for everyone for what ever reason, but that's between them not everyone else.

people get hung up on wanting everyone to agree with how they like things done.
do you have the legalities ironed out? what happens if he leaves, if he dies, if he's incapacitated? and for you?
if so, there's no worry.
we got married for the tax exempt status and insurance benefits. okay, maybe a little more than that, but neither one of us was religious at the time. we got married in the courthouse and had cold cuts back at our little apartment afterwards. the spiritual and emotional commitment way preceded that brief little ceremony in a tiny closet of the courthouse, and has endured decades beyond it.
now that i AM religious i'd be kinda tickled to do a ceremony before my gods with my partner, but since he doesn't share my religion it doesn't make much sense.
make sure you're legally protected and try not to worry about what people think. i'd rather have a house than a ring any day.
khairete
S.

In the end it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks as long as you are happy.

For me personally, I wanted to get married, biblical reasons, the way I was brought up etc. But I don't think differently of people who never got married but live together for a long time. Sometimes I will wonder if you've been with a person that long why not just get married? But to critize someone for it-I don't see why people are like that.

Like you said, your kids know that their (you and your SO) love them and will always be there for them so in the end that is the only thing that matters.

I would say people have a problem with it because they do and they have nothing better to do then to make someone else feel bad.

WOW! You have gotten a lot here. After my divorce I didn't want to get remarried. I was in a relationship that would be my last and I knew it. He on the other hand wanted to show me and the world that he was as committed to me and that piece of paper proved it. I married him 6 years and 2 sons ago and my committment has never wavered. He is also the best father to my oldest 2 sons.

If you don't want to get married, don't. But do make sure that you have all the legal paperwork completed so you don't run into any bumbs in the road because it isn't just a piece of paper. It carries all the legalities that a couple needs for the unexpected.

Best of luck to you in which ever path you take.

There are legal reasons to be married. Like when he dies you will not get his social security benefits. There are others, but you need to check with a lawyer.

As long as the legalities are taken care of, who cares? The main thing is that a spouse has certain rights that a girlfriend/partner doesn't. An old friend of mine is currently in this situation. They've been together more than a decade and he is now, very suddenly, dying. He is in and out of consciousness and can no longer make decisions. He has an adult (just barely) daughter and she is lawyered up against his parents, with everyone trying to get control. And here sits my friend, his partner, with no rights and can't pay the electric bill.

I lived with my husband for 8 1/2 years before we got married. I admit, having the paper made our relationship different and stronger. We have other friends who have been together more than 20 years, and they're just fine.