Disrespectful 8 Year Old

It seems to me that this child has something bothering him. His acting out is just a way for him to bring attention to that fact. Open the door for him to talk to you about whatever is going on. Even if he just gets it off his chest that he wishes he didn't have to stay with you, don't get defensive, just acknowledge that you get it.

This is what I would do.

When mom is around the three of you have a sit down. Mom is just there to show the child you mean business, and also so she knows nothing inappropriate was said.

Let the child know that know, and make sure he understands it's your house and your rules. He is to speak when spoken to, he is to say please and thank you, and the family members are going to be respected. I would also tell him the you are going to continue to watch him, so copping an attitude isn't going to scare you off. Let him know the three of you are a team and he needs to get with the program. Once you get the squared away, show him that it's alright to be a nice kid. Play some one-on-one games with him. Talk to him, give him some attention. Gain his trust. Once you get that, it will be much easier.

When I was a kid I could be a little skittish too. When people showed me they weren't kidding, it made the situation better. It showed me that the person in charge of me cared about me enough to still work with me even though I was acting in a less than desirable way. It made a huge difference in my attitude. A lot of the time, I didn't even realize I how rude I was being.

Oh gosh, that is a difficult one to take:( Clearly he doesn't like staying with you, he'd rather be at home with his mom but that can't quite happen as his mom needs to obviously work to make ends meat for her and him. If his mom is super supportive and is easy to communicate with, maybe it would be a good idea if you two sat down together first to figure out details of how this boy should act in your home and if he doesn't his mom will have punishments etc... that you get to enforce. Then, I think it would be a good idea if all three of you sat down to express how much he is loved which is why he is so lucky to be staying with you and ask what HE needs to feel more comfortable in your home so he doesn't act out so much. He's only 8, I'm sure he is a little confused on why his mom dumped him at your house. I think some patience and understanding is in order till he comes around and realizes that mom isn't leaving him forever.

Mom has to agree to take away privileges based on poor behavior and choices when he is with you. Get her to agree in advance when talking between the two of you. THEN sit down together with him and have her tell him point blank what the consequences are for bad behavior.

This 10 times worse is serious, J.. You don't HAVE to accept this kid in your home, no matter what, including that you have a guest room. You have to make that mom understand that.

And really, J., you'd be doing this mom a favor. Just think what he's going to be when he's 15 if she doesn't take this kid to task. Tell her that, okay?

Dawn

Personally I don't think you can fix someone else's 8 year old (without running some sort of tough love camp or Outward Bound). You can maybe manage the situation by ignoring him when he's rude and letting it roll off your back (the less you care, the less he gets out of acting that way)...this is NOT what I would EVER do if it was my own child-I discipline my kids and they don't act this way, but I ignore other people's bratty kids. If watching him was making me miserable, I'd stop watching him. I think doing little "consequences" like taking his stuff and talking to him will only work sometimes at best and once he doesn't care about that anymore, he'll be worse. You can't make him behave really, he personality was set in stone at 5. All you can hope for are those random times when he feels like being nice on his terms.

Sit down with the child and his mom and talk about your house rules. Spell them out, explicitly, then explain that if they can't agree to the rules she'll need to find somewhere else for him to stay. I would suggest no electronics after your kids go to bed. My kids (8 & 10) don't watch tv during the week. We've discovered they cop an attitude when we tell them to turn it off so during the school year no weeknight tv, period. Also spell out that if he isn't addressing you respectfully you will ignore him. No 'please may I have a snack' means no snack. Tell mom that if he is blatantly disrespectful you'll call her and she'll have to come pick him up. Make this her problem too, right now it doesn't affect her so she has no incentive to follow up with discipline at home. Give her an incentive to get her on your side.

You said "but i need to know how to put my foot down and tell him to cut it out without becoming a discipliner"...you have to discipline to get it to stop.

To me it seems his mom needs to get a day job. What kid wants to stay someplace else. He wants to be home in his own home and he takes it out on you. I probably would not watch him anymore and tell the mom why. He is acting out because he is not at home.

"He has stayed with other people in the past" and mom has always worked the night shift....The kid is messed up because he does not have consistency, and he is angry at the world because he does not have his mom, and he is angry at you because, well, you are not his mom.

This is NOT an excuse, but it is an explanation.

He does need to change the attitude. But it sounds like his mom, who is working hard to give him a decent life, also does not get respect from him -- if he respected her he would listen to her. I feel so sorry for her because she may feel she doesn't really know him, considering their schedule.

I would talk with her again, at a time when he is not around to hear it; at a time when she is not picking him up in the early morning hours; at a time when she is not due for work soon and is in a rush. See if you can arrange to meet with her when she has other "coverage" for him during a day she's off work, and talk to her as a friend. He is working up some anger issues here that will follow him and get worse, not better, if she doesn't get him some consistency and help soon. I would ask her if there are also issues with his behavior at school (I'd bet it's highly possible). I always advocate parents talking to a school counselor at times like this and she can consider that route. Focus the talk on helping him, not criticizing him. She already knows he behaves this way; make your talk with her about "How can we help him grow up happier and a better member of the household" rather than "He's being rude again."

But she also needs to set up some consistent systems of reward and discipline--"If you do X, the result for you will be Y." She is not there to see and hear the behaviors, which is very tough, and he sees you (and his other nighttime caregivers) as "Not my parent and not my boss." Possibly she can write out a simple contract with him laying out the specific behaviors he will use and the rewards if she gets a good report and the consequences if he gets a poor one -- and the consequences should be spelled out specifically (you will lose a week of TV time, you will lose all Wii for two days, you will lose...) etc. The tough part is -- you will have to report on him and you will have to enforce her discipline when she is not there. If you are going to continue as his caregiver at night, you and she need to work out together a clear system and ensure he knows you are acting on her behalf.

It sounds as if he has had to shift from person to person. He likely feels he doesn't really have a home and he is always the tag-along to other families, so he is acting out. The perfect-world solution would be for her to get a day job, but that is not necessarily realistic (if it's in the range of possibilities, though, help her hunt!). Meanwhile you will have to "become a discipliner" as you put it, with her complete input and agreement, or he will continue to get worse. IHe is too young to see that he's really upset and unhappy. You are the adult and old enough to realize that -- and to be there to help him through it with consistent discipline. (Which does not include spanks or swats, by the way -- if things went bad between you and her, that could end up as a legal disaster for you. Stick to taking away things he values.)

Be sure he has some regular chores at your house, as if he's a member of the household. Be sure he is thanked and praised whenever possible (even if he's doing something you consider just normal, if it's something he hasnt' been good at --like saying thanks--praise him for it). Be sure he definitely has a firm routine at your house every single night so he knows what to expect each hour -- snack; homework time; you sit with him and check homework is done; reading time; ready for bed time; reading in bed; etc.

As others have said, talk to the mother. I think you have every right to be a discipliner. If he was at school or in a daycare, his behavior would not be tolerated and in essence you are his daycare, only at night. You and the mother should speak without the child present and as long as she understands where you are coming from with the discipline and will back you up, try giving him another chance. However, if she is a parent who does not want anyone else disciplining her child then you just need to tell her that his type of behavior is not tolerated in your home and you can no longer help her out. Good luck! If she really needs the help she will support you and YOU may be the best thing that can happen to this child.