Bikinis? Is Women's Lib Moving Backwards?

Women's lib? Really? You're equating people's sense of modesty with feminism? Do you not realize that FEMINISM isn't about intimidating boys and men? Do you not realize that FEMINISM is about giving women the right to choose what they wish to do and be socially? And that we have the right to use our voices socially as well?

Your post, believe it or not, is pretty anti-feminism. You're demanding that women keep their voices quiet when they feel that something isn't modest enough and our children are being over-sexualized. Can you explain how you think it's a good thing to sexualize our daughters in this highly technological world that accommodates sexual predators? Can you explain how you think it's all right to demand that mothers shouldn't be proactive in protecting their daughters and raising them with good morals?

Go ahead... tell me. How is it the right message to tell our girls that they ought to be sexual objects?

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I'm all for modesty and it has nothing to do with feminism imho.

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OH! SO, it's great for women to be liberated and free and proud only as long as they THINK JUST LIKE YOU? So, just because a handful of people on some obscure site took issue with a particular type of swim suit, NOW an ENTIRE movement has been set back? You think that just because someone doesn't want to expose their children's or their own bodies then they must lack love of self and strength?
My liberation and freedom is ME doing as I please despite and in spite of the nay sayers.
I am free to choose how I want to be. My freedom, strength and love of SELF allows me to NOT feel obligated to be a people pleaser.

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A woman walking around in a bikini is one thing. A 13 year old GIRL, who does not need to add more hormones to the already hormonal mix...is quite another. Modesty is VERY different then covering up. Modesty is classy. A 13 year old, does NOT need to wear an itty bitty bikini. You are talking about WOMAN, the question (that I read) was talking about GIRLS. It's not about being ashamed. It's about teaching a little GIRL, that you don't have to show all your parts, to be attractive. It's about teaching a GIRL, that you don't have to try to be sexy so soon. Why can't a 13 year old still be mostly a kid? Why do we want to thrust them into wearing very little? It's not about woman's lib, it's about preserving some kind of simplicity, innocence. Do we really want girls looking like strippers? If you do, I think you truly have a problem being OK with that. I...personally...want girls only to feel pressure being girls. Not vixens.

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I, too, was born in 1968. I am not a prude, either. But I think the problem is not so much with the bikini per se, but the TYPE of bikini. There are tons of moms out there (here in cyberspace?) that struggle to find clothing for their girls (not just bikinis, but regular every day clothing) that isn't overly suggestive and sexualized. It isn't that there is an issue with sexuality, but the age at which it is being pushed on these KIDS. String bikinis for 8 year olds? Whatever is wrong with just a 2 piece that actually doesn't try to make them look like a grown-up?

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One piece bathing suits do not cover up like a burqua... trust me, I"m a radical feminist and have fought in petitions and spreading the word about the plight of Afghan women since I was 15 y/o!

Telling our girls that showcasing their bodies as the main reason to speak to them, or as sexual meat is not beneficial to their psyche and self esteem. If they feel that their body is the most important thing about them - what kind of parent are you then to endorse and allow such thinking?

I'm an 100% good with nudity in situations where it is a normal function: group showers, bathroom, sleeping, changing clothing, etc. But dressing SPECIFICALLY to showcase and sexualize the female form, before the age of maturity - is simply disgusting.

My daughter and I walk around the house naked all the time, she's almost 6. My husband will wear boxers around the house - because that is HIS preference. I have no issues with people being naked around me - and unless I'm about to have sex - the situation of nudeness had better be non sexual. I am not offended to see children naked, as long as their parents are also comfortable with it.

Sexualizing children and teens is not about freedom. You are taking away a bit of their freedom by allowing them to dress like skanks and prostitutes in normal family situations. You put them on display - which should not happen sexually to children.

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The thing is--when a grown woman chooses to wear a skimpy bikini--she knows and possibly welcomes the attention it gets her and the statement it makes. A 13 year old? Not so much.
That's kind of why we don't let kids engage in other "risky" behaviors that might result in what they're not ready for (Ex. Dating a 17 year old boy, etc.) because they don't have the maturity or world view to make those decisions for themselves, right?
I'm assuming you're talking about the 13 yo girls in bikini's question....

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I see it the other way. By wearing bikinis (and there is pressure out there to show as much skin as we can), we're un-libbing ourselves for the enjoyment of men. Whatever women might think, it IS sexual to men. Ask almost any guy other there, and they'll agree. Seeing women nearly naked is a major turn on to them.

I believe in women's rights. I believe in women's worth. I don't believe in dressing myself in a way that *I feel* is demeaning to me and makes guys *not see ME* but they see my body instead, in a more sexual way, and that is their focus. Because I believe in a woman's worth, I am opposed to clothing that shows her off as a piece of meat instead of a woman.

Now...if we're talking about being intimate with my husband where my goal *is* to come across that way, then totally fine! No problem. But I don't believe women's lib equals dressing immodestly or ignoring the fact that men are different than women and view things like that how they do. Sure, it's not our fault that most men view it on the sexual side, but it's how MOST of them do.

So...that's why I feel the way I do. I respect the race of women too much to believe we should be sexualizing ourselves that way. And, I'm not just referring to bikinis, dressing immodestly is something I feel is disrespectful to women themselves because of the worth I feel we have. I don't believe we should dress like the Middle East...but there a HUGE in between ground between wearing bikinis and wearing a burka. I don't believe that just because we are liberated or just because we live in America that it makes it okay for us to dress nearly naked;-) I do believe women have that right, I just don't agree with it for me or my daughters.

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my girls will not be in bikinis, not sure what womans libs have to do with this tho

maybe i would reconsider if our country wasn't so sexualized. but when you have girls trying to be sexy, parents allowing dating so early on, 12 yr olds giving boys blow jobs on the school bus, and girls sending naked pics via cell phone, & i can go on & on, it's best not to give them more ammo

just yesterday my newly turned 4 yr old girl was wearing her tank top with one of the straps off her shoulder & asked me how she looked. Um no thank you.

I will save the womans libs talk for when my girls actually become woman

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What keeps us all from going naked in public then? Modesty.

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Ok, let's go all the way with this.
All nude beaches and pools everywhere - all ages, all sexes - zero tan lines.

Let's have all the flab hang out, all the stretch marks, let's see how hairy or shaved people are, let see how far the privates/breasts hang down, let's see all their tattoos and surgery scars and what ever they've got pierced, all the cellulite and varicose veins, etc.

From what I've read about nudists - the hardest part to deal with is having no pockets and sitting down on a chair that's been in the sun really stings at first (and you might stick a bit when you get up).

I'm sorry (and it's just my opinion) but nude people are ugly.

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Nope wearing a bikini looks stupid on a little girl. It just looks stupid. These kids want to play, jump, dive. Although nothing is harmed by the top coming off with a dive, come on!!! why do it??!!

I guess another way to look at it as what is better about a bikini on a small girl as opposed to a swimsuit or tankini that will stay on though all their playing?

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Probably because we're suffering through the brittney spears all girls are ho's age..... Truly when you talk to young girls now it makes me want to cry for all that was fought for and all they are letting slip away. Teaching them to "cover up" because they are giving boys the wrong message is the wrong message to give girls.

We should teach women to be proud of their bodies they don't need to be covered. BUT, we must also teach them not to expect to use their bodies as weapons or tools or toys.

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I didn't read the other bikini questions either.

I will admit that, before I had children, I used to think that bikinis for babies were ridiculous and sending the wrong message.

Then I dealt with potty training with my son. And I fully realized WHY parents put their younger girls in bikinis: they're much easier to take off when the little one needs to go potty like NOW as opposed to wrestling with a wet one-piece.

And, I have no problem with it!

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It doesn't only apply to "bikinis' and 'girls' and little girls or old girls.
It has to do with perceptions of clothing... and gender.

Not about women's lib.

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I think women should be able to go topless in America. It's a shame we're still run by puritanical thinking. I think if men can walk around with their tops off women should be able to do the same.

I have a slightly feminist perspective on nudity and equality, though. I think it's fine for children to wear bikinis. It doesn't send any message other than "I AM GOING TO GET IN A POOL OR PLAY IN WATER" or "I AM GOING TO SUNBATHE".

I also think it's ok for boys to wear pink and get their toes painted. Then again, I don't force children into gender constraints or sexualize them. Maybe that's the problem with a lot of other folks.

People can be so stupid sometimes.

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I think that some women can be completely tasteful and beautiful in bikinis. But, I have to say ALOT of girls and some women do not wear them properly or in a way that compliments them. They are ill-fitting and showing everything under the sun or they hang on their super skinny bodies like they are wearing a diaper! I think there is something to be said for having respect for yourself and body enough to not show every part of your breast or bottom to the world. Every woman has them, but I personally don't want to see other women's bodies like that. Its not about not liking your body, its completely the opposite!~ Having respect for yourself and loving yourself enough to not have to show your body to the world is better in my eyes.

M

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I'm with you, Mamazita! (See my profile pic, that's me, in a bikini, I'm 50!)

This is an issue that I've thought about. I have a beautiful daughter-in-law who is Muslim. She covers in public...because men can't control their urges, because her body is only for her husband, because it's dangerous.... Hearing women here say that girls need to be "modest" to avoid exciting the boys?? I was thinking "this isn't Saudi Arabia"...or are we becoming that?

I don't want that for my daughter (9). I want her to be proud, strong, fit, and wear what she wants to wear. Of course there are limits to appropriateness, but we are talking the beach or pool here. Boys will get turned on by the wind, if it's coming from the right direction. (Men I've known have told me that's true!) Are we teaching our boys to treat girls with respect?? Or are they somehow not responsible for their responses to a girl's choice of clothing??

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Women's lib is all about CHOICE. I'm not sure this enters into the question, but I do agree that we all have to accept responsibility for ourselves.

If guys get turned on seeing a girl, guess what? They get turned on seeing girls fully clothed. And they are still responsible for however *they* choose to act on those feelings.

And teen girls will try to 'act sexy', if that's their thing, in a full-length dress with a high collar. Don't think they didn't do it in the 1800's! I'm not sure a different swimsuit is going to curb the behavior.

I thought a lot about the bikini question. When I was in Brazil, 14 years old and visiting during Carnaval, I was given a one-piece to wear on the beach.

The hooks were so flimsy, the top fell down. Boobs on the beach.
No one cared, and any tourist out there was busy looking at the pregnant lady floating topless amongst the waves.

For a while after that, I wore a string bikini and nothing was thought of it. At least my top didn't fall off. When I came back to the states, I wore it in the backyard, but not in the front. NOT around adult male family members. I had a bandeau top bikini afterward for a long time.

You have to understand, too, I grew up in Honolulu when I was young. Bikinis, to me, were about comfort. These days, I'm more comfortable in a tankini than a tank suit. I'm forty, though.

In my opinion, a midriff isn't a big deal. I wonder about the idea that a girl is somehow considered trashy or 'less' because of her clothing. Shouldn't that be based more on how she comports herself than what she wears?

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I think bikini's for little girls CAN be okay, IF they are MODEST.

There are many types of bathing suits that are adorable and convenient for bathroom trips, and are AGE appropriate.

Do I think that little girls should be wearing the same type of bathing suit that an adult should be? NO, but I dont think they should be strictly in a one piece either.

Its all about modesty and what we are teaching our young children. Yes, they should be proud of their bodies, and what not, but I dont think that they have to taught the "if you got it, flaunt it" attitude either. They shouldnt even be THINKING about, "oh the boys will love this" They are just babies still, young girls. They will learn that when they get older, and in due time, to be strong, and all that.

As mothers we should be teaching them about morals, modesty, and not about attracting attention with their string bikini's that they see on tv or wherever.

For NOW, let them be little girls for goodness sake, and dress them modestly!

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Its a double edged sword.

On one hand women should be allowed to not cover up when swimming the same way a man is. Its only fair and the people who opt to wear a full suit shouldnt look down on those that dont.

On the other hand a developing girl might be well advised to cover up around developing boys and perverted old men because developing boys will stare, and perverted old men will be further tempted.

I really do see both sides, where do i stand?, well my 8 year old has 3 bathing suits, 2 of which are bikinis. I may or may not require her to wear a one piece or tank-ini once she starts sprouting breasts. but im not there and i will cross that road when i get to it.

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Love you Mamazita! Bravo!

:)

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I have to disagree with you. That post had NOTHING to do with womens lib. Why does everything get pushed in that direction?? I guess what you are saying is the sexualization of women and little girls is liberating?? To me that is not liberating at all! And one has nothing to do with the other.

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OMG -totally missed the bikini posts today! Seriously -they've been around a LONG time people! At this point it should really not be a big deal if a girl wears a two piece or woman wants to wear a modest swim dress or a thong bikini -whatever makes her happy! I get parents telling teenage daughters that they can't wear a string/thong/teensy bikini they're spilling out of just like they should probably say no to hot pants and spike heels on minor girls -plus the girls need something to look forward to when they leave home! I think those admonitions come from not looking like you're out solely to screw, but once you're over 18 -why not wear whatever makes you feel good? To me, feminism is not only about equality but SO much about having choices! If some people think other's choices make them look like sluts -then so what? Gives 'em something to talk about.

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I was born in 1965 and grew up wearing bikinis. I don't recall even knowing one piece suits existed until at least high school - and they were much harder to get to stay put. I have no issue with little girls in bikinis. I do have a big issue with how little girls are advertised and marketed. The inappropriate early sexualization of girls is not aimed at making these girls strong, confident sexual beings. It is aimed at selling, selling, selling. Take a look at this ad and see what you think http://www.submarinekids.com.br/.
Five year olds should love their strong healthy bodies that let them run fast and climb high. NOT aim to have little skinny bodies to attract boys (or men).

Now as far as teens and adults picking a sexy suit - more power to them. It never occurred to me as a teenager that wearing a string bikini (yep, the little triangle kind) had anything at all to do with my taking honors classes and getting into the college and professional school of my choice.

And yes, apparently it is the 1950s again - cover up, it's better to stay home than work, choice is out, getting married because you are pregnant is in.

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Well, I have a son and he is an only child. What I would say to my nieces (IF THEY ASKED), is wear what ever you want, but don't let any boy/man you go out with treat your body like a "playground". When the right one comes along, bring him home, introduce him to the family and go meet his family...take it from there.

Blessings...

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It has absolutely nothing to do with women's lib.
There are actually teenage boys and men that don't want women flaunting themselves because it causes physical reactions they would rather not have to deal with. It is not that they can't control themselves.
Teenage boys have raging hormones and it is not pleasant for them.
If I had a little girl, when we left the swimming area, I would definitely put a cover up on her. I see little girls all the time in public in tight clingly suits or bikinis and wonder what in the world are their parents thinking. You never know what kind of perverts are around. I wouldn't want them ogling my child.

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I have to respectfully disagree with both posts. Yes, women should have a choice in what they wear. And yes, we certainly need to be reminded of how far we've come in the last 50 years because clearly we have forgotten. I don't think there is anything inheritantly wrong in bikinis or burkas - it's our mindset. Why are our girls making the choices they are making? Growing up, I was confident and believed I was embrassing my sexuality. In reality, I subconciously placed way too much priority on my looks and many of my actions were motivated by what I thought boys/men would find attractive. Our culture does encourage the sexualization of girls and it is difficult for any of us to come out unscathed. Like tanning, why do we risk skin cancer to feel attractive? We may not think we prioritize our looks but what do our choices show? Being strongly pro or against bikinis is not the point, it's how we came to that decision. If we see our daughters making choices with the intent of sexualizing themselves, how do we respond? That is a parenting question. We set limits on our children that we do not place on adults.

For the record, Muslim women do not dress modestly because "men can not control themselves". It is a conscious choice to show their commitment to God (like nuns) and to not use their sexuality for personal gain. Similarly, Muslim men do not wear silk or gold with the purpose of not advertising their wealth for personal gain. It is a religion of humility for both men and women. The situation for women in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc is atrocious. But women are subordinate all over the world, so let's not blame this on one religion. Their are plenty of "christian" countries doing very unchristian like things to women. A discussion on religions role is valid but I felt the need to clarify in response to one of the replies.

It can be empowering to dress modestly in today's society, to chose to go against the social expectations just like it was empowering to go against the social expectations of modesty. But my point is we need to move the discussion off of our bodies and onto the real culprits you identified. Here is a good website to launch such a conversation: http://www.about-face.org/

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Leah, I have no problem with the idea of being naked in public. I have been to clothing optional retreats with my daughter (who was a tween at the time), and nudity isn't about sex unless you MAKE it so. I was naked along with several hundred people I had never met before. There was ONE person out of that several hundred who made an inappropriate comment to a teenage girl, and he was escorted off the grounds.
A funny thing happens when everyone (or nearly everyone) is naked or in various stages of undress. After a short while, visible parts become a non-issue.

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Bikinis are age appropriate. I can't tell you how many times I get mad because I see a toddler in a tube top bikini or a triangle bikini. It's not cute. Some pedo is prbly giving your kid extra attention... yuck. You can't shelter them, but you don't subject them to danger either. Just like I'm not going to go into a dark alley alone, I'm not going to dress my 2 yr old in a tube top bikini. It's the reality of dangers. You talk about "your day", well in "your day" my aunt was molested. It still happened. I see the neighbor girls walking around in bikinis at 6 and 7. To me, it's about safety. You don't know who's around and to try to live in a fantasy land of it will never happen to me is silly. You can't walk into fire expecting to never get burned.

The post makes about as much sense as the young ladies overseas demanding women's rights by walking around topless... yeah, that sent the message. Women's lib is about being equal and having a choice, not wearing bikinis and sexualizing little girls and boys. Kids should be kids, they don't need to be dressed in a bikini because mom thinks it's "oh so cute" while neighbor joe is fantasizing. It's like setting your kids up for failure. Just because it happened back in the day doesn't mean it was appropriate or right.

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I'm with you 100%. Anyway, it's not about how much fabric a bathing suit is made of, you can still see the whole body anyway! A lot of it is in the attitude. The most covered up one-piece bathing suit can be very sexy. So why fret about it?

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I can't help but wonder how you would feel if we were talking about a 13 year old boy in a speedo.

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I think it is really sad that so many people hang on to these kind of notions and then pass them on to their kids. Once I became single it is amazing how many insecurities reared their ugly heads. I think it is very sad and people should realize that the world would be such a much better place if people would worry about themselves and what makes them happy.

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