Would You Consider This Lying?

Yes she lied.
But why are you hounding her about lunch?
She is 15. If my 15 yo doesn't get ready and get her own food in the am then she goes hungry. This goes for lunch, breakfast, snacks you name it. the only meal I cook for any of my kids is dinner. Sometimes I make brownies or cookies for after school.
Same goes for school books, if she doesn't have them ready then she has to suffer the consequences. No you cannot just hop in the car and take them to her. Mine has had to suffer these consequences, it's better to receive an F now than to get one in college or be fired form a job because of negligence.

For the lieing take away privileges. Then start letting her fend for herself, while she can learn about cosequences without too much disaster.

Yes, she lied.

I assume you drive her to school? If yes, why is she allowed to "push the time back" with regard to when the car pulls out of the driveway? She's 15. That means she is old enough to be ready on time. Pull out at 7:15 and she will either join you, hair braided and lunch made, or she won't. Sounds tough, I know, but she sounds like she isn't taking you seriously.

Good luck!

It's lying and she's trying to weasel around the issue which is the bigger problem.
It's the computer/social networking that is the problem.
Get the computer in a public place in the house so you can always see what she's doing. When she comes home, she can make tomorrows lunch first before doing anything else, then homework, and then if there's time 1/2 hr of recreational computer time - then it goes off.
Set a timer if you have to.
If there's push back, pull the plug or the battery or lock the laptop up.
This is really very simple.
She needs to know life can be sweet if she works with you or it can be very very difficult if she works against you.
It's her choice which it's going to be and she's not making very good choices right now.

Wow, I wouldn't even begin to have the energy to micromanage my fifteen year old like this!
You're treating her like a child. She is way too old for this. If she doesn't have a lunch when it's time to go, too bad! Let HER figure it out, it's her responsibility, not yours. This is called growing up.
And yes, she's probably lying to avoid the confrontation, I do the same thing sometimes with my husband over little things that aren't worth fighting about.

All of this started because of lunch?
Because she forgets to make her lunch?
Sounds like her problem.

You keep trying to save her instead of letting her suffer the natural consequences. Why do you continue to remind a 15 year old to make her lunch? If you continue to treat her like a child, she will continue to act and respond like a child.

Here is how it should really be working.
Daughter knows the expectation.
She is supposed to be ready to leave at 7:15.

That includes lunch homework, whatever. If she has not made her lunch, she eats from the school cafeteria.

If she is not ready to leave, the car leaves without her. EVERY time.
So sad too bad. Have her miss enough days of school, that is HER problem.

Your daughter is a smart girl. She knows she needs to attend school and make good grades. If she cannot get her act together, this is really her problem, because you know darn well she can do this on her own.

Have a very serious non threatening conversation with her. You and your husband need to explain, you are no longer going to remind her about lunches, homework, and being ready to leave at 7:15 in the morning.

You are just not going to do it any more and if she is not ready, no one will to be to blame but your daughter. She will miss school and have to make up all of the work.

MOM, you are not doing her favors by continuing to keep saving her.
I understand this is hard for you, but this same behavior keeps happening, so you need to try something new.
Make it all of HER responsibility. Follow through every time.

Wow, all this angst over lunch? Really, if she packs it and takes it -- fine. If she doesn't then she doesn't eat. Picking weeds has nothing to do with this issue, and doesn't help her see the consequences. Plus, didn't she make most of her lunch? Sheesh! I don't like to make my sandwiches ahead either. You sound like a nag. Keep it up and you'll create distance between you. Let it go, let her suffer if she doesn't make her lunch and keep your departure time the same.

I mean this in the best way, it is just perspective for you to consider. I lie to my husband when he is micro managing me...for example, when he tells me to get gas first before I do anything else (he's a freak about keeping the tank full), I say okay...and then I don't. I'm just avoiding an argument - but I guess it's lying. So I would say at her age, she needs a little more freedom to make choices and decisions on things like this and then the consequences are natural consequences. The car leaves at 7:15, whether lunch is made or not. She can miss lunch if it isn't made.

It's a lie - but why are you so concerned about her packing her lunch? Stop pushing back the time to leave - if you need to be out the door at 7:15 then you get in the car at 7:15 - whether she has her hair braided, lunch ready, etc. It sets the tone of HER being responsible - some Love and Logic parenting advice.

She's 15 which is plenty old enough to be responsible for getting ready and out the door without your constant reminders. A couple days of no lunch or one day of showing up at high school looking messy should solve this problem. :-)

Here's the thing. If the rule is she has to make her own lunch the night before, and she clearly KNOWS that rule, than why even ASK her if she did it?
If she doesn't do it, than that's her problem, no lunch for her, oh well!

If you are thinking that giving her the responsibilty to manage her OWN lunch issues will make her a more responsible person, why are you taking that responsibility AWAY again by even mentioning it at all?

Based on THIS any MANY other posts you've made, I think you would really benefit from some family therapy. It's almost like you're playing head games with your own daughter.

:)

my opinion?

pick your battles. seems she at least made SOME effort here, but slacked. I'd consider this a LAZY LIE. not really an intentional, full-out, bold or harmful lie. But just being a little lazy. But the reason I say to pick your battles is because you should find out what's more important about this argument. Seemed you were really spending a lot of time with her picking apart silly details of you said/I said-you did/I saw etc and kids do not respond to that. It's nagging. It will only make her mad and provoke more rebelling on her part I think. Figure out what was most important: her making your 6yo daughter late? Or the principle that you need your 15yo to learn time management?

You really cannot tell her she has to do something bc she'll make her little sister late. Why does she care? That will not entice her to be punctual and responsible. The message is: I really care about your little sister and your laziness is effecting HER.

The message should be: I really care about you being able to manage your time better bc it helps you perform better, and when you put things off I feel disappointed bc I know what a great person you are and can be.

you have to make it about HER. not you or little sister.
=)

Yes, she lied. If she wants to negotiate with you what is considered "making lunch" then she can do that.

If she doesn't want her sandwich to get soggy, she can pop it in the freezer and night and it will defrost before lunchtime in her lunch pack, even with the ice pack.

I think the thing to do with her is give her consequences - immediate. If the carpool is leaving at 7:15, it leaves at 7:15. The younger child isn't going to be late. Your daughter can miss school one day and then explain to the assistant principal that she isn't responsible enough to get ready on time and to make her lunch. Don't write a note that she was sick or any other excuse. If she gets marked 'tardy', that's it.

At this age, she needs to be responsible for herself. She's rebelling against your rules and your schedule for her. Let her. If she goes to school without lunch, oh well, what a shame. She can buy lunch out of her own money. Don't pay for it. Give her the control over her own decisions and actions, and let her deal with the repercussions. She wants to be a grown-up - that's what this defiance is about. Stop worrying about her lunch, tell her you are putting her in charge of it, and do not bail her out. Give her clear warning that this is happening, say, on Monday.

She can also make all her lunches on Sunday night and put them in the freezer. Or she can get up early enough to make a sandwich that will not be soggy - her choice. She can buy a 2nd ice pack for herself if that's a big deal for her - she just can't take the 6 year old's pack.

I'd start giving her more control since she's begging for it, and let her work it out her own way. Think of it this way - in another year or so she's going to want to start driving. You're going to have to allow her to develop a sense of responsibility and ownership of her own actions and a desire to earn privileges.

Let her go to school hungry or late, and suffer the consequences given out by herself or by school authorities. You have plenty of other battles to fight with her and I would stop making this one of them.

She lied. Period. Of course she defended herself and in doing so, she made the lie bigger.

Take away the internet b/c she's on the computer rather than doing what you have asked. In addition, I would check the lunch the night before. If it isn't made- then she gets up an hour earlier to do it.

If she pulls it together, she can have her internet access back supervised and for a specific period of time.

Yes she lied.

But the punishment doesn't connect to the crime. She was online when she lied to you. So, the punishment should be that internet is off limits for x amount of days. But you've set the punishment this time, so STICK TO WHAT YOU SAID!

However, I do think you need to sit down and talk to her. Reiterate that you will NOT allow her to lie OR mislead you. And let her know that the next consequence will be no internet for a week. (Or whatever you want it to be.) Be sure to PRAISE her for the good things she has done as well. And whenever you catch her doing something GOOD, acknowledge it! Praise usually works much better than punishments. But there needs to be consequences when rules are broken.

I would have just put the warm ice pack in her lunch and given your other daughter the cold one. Sounds like she lied. From now on have her show you the made lunch before she goes on the computer or take away computer privilages for a night so she remembers to do it next time.

There was so much going on in your post. Yes she lied. Lies have consequences. Determine what those consequences will be.

Your daughter is 15 almost 16 and soon to be out your house and into adulthood. If you need to leave the house at 7:15, leave with or without her. There should be no further discussion about when lunch is to be made. If you discover she has taken her little sister's ice pack, remove it from her bag and put it in it's proper bag and dare her to say anything to you. I would also recommend you set the example by putting your little ones lunch together at night.

It is time for your 15 year old to learn time management. Negative consequences from her actions will help tremendously. Those who don't listen need to feel.

Yes, it is a lie. tell her to pack her sandwich in parts. Bread in a baggie and meat separate and put it together at school. Teens are tough these days ( I know I teach high school and do not envy the parents), stick to your guns and you will get the results you want. Teenagers,especially girls are very dramatic and her reaction is her just trying to get her way.

I agree with Laurie 100%...by 15, I was getting up to my own alarm, getting ready and walk myself to the bus stop or getting a ride with a friend. Lunch, I had to make myself, OR we had to pay for the cafeteria and if I wanted that, I need to work job in the house to get paid extra money.
This is a life tool she needs. as long as you enable her to not be accountable for her actions, she will fail as an adult.
My parents made me accountable for my own life, sadly they did not to my brother and he is 37 and still living at home.
Its easy to fix, just have a talk with her...not just in the car, sit down and talk with her with no distractions. Tell her what is expected and if she is not ready, the bus is leaving without her and she can figure out how to get to school (and eat) for that day.
ADD
I wanted to add about the cold packs. you can get a 3rd one to avoid your 6 year old havign a warm lunch or just write with permanent marker "6year olds name" and the other pack can say "15 year olds name"
That way no more lying on if she swapped them

She might just be trying to see what she can get away with and trying to push your buttons. Or she was just trying to avoid another lecture/nagging from you. How about you stop checking with her about whether she fixed her lunch or not, and the next time she's not ready to go on time because she hasn't made her lunch yet, she just goes without lunch. Either she is forced to spend her own money buying lunch at school, or she goes hungry. Maybe after a few days of that, she'll start taking more responsibility for herself.

Wow...it's lunch. And small lies don't always lead to big lies. Let little things like that go. She's a teenager.

I understand the responsibility thing about all this but really it seems like a lot of effort over a lunch. If you are making lunch for one why not for the other? If you asked her the night before and she said yes, my usual response to a teenager that says yes is " are you sure because I am going to check" You cant just trust a teenager you still have to check them. Next time she says yes check before you go to bed if she didn't make her lunch get her up and make her do it. She wont forget next time. As for the lying it is possible she didnt want to make the sandwich or she didnt do it all together but because you didnt check on her and she isnt going to face up I would just let it go.

yes, it's a lie....but if the two of you continue to fight on these little battles... you will end up with World War 3.

Instead of reacting with frustration or anger, what would happen if you responded with, "OMG, tell me you didn't! Tell me that your lunch is ready, you're waiting to go, & you love me! Come on, tell me what I want to hear! Make your Momma happy!". I guarantee if you Drama Queen it...you will not fight & you'll all be happier! This is not making a fool of yourself, this is not minimizing the importance of being a parent.....it's simply approaching it in a way which will not trigger your daughter's need to push buttons (which is a normal part of teenhood). If you find it within yourself to laugh, life will be much easier!

Does your school have a lunch program? If it does, then here's how you stop this battle: New rules- if the lunch & your daughter are not ready by 7am - allowing some free time before departure....then she has to eat the school lunch. Flat-out the kitchen is shutdown at 7am.

This new rule means that she is fully in charge of her actions. Allow her the freedom to fail & learn from her mistakes. One day of school lunch will make her realize that she needs to take ownership of her actions! (unless she's like my son - he loves school food. Yuck!).

Right now, the two of you are stuck in a "Mom Watches Me Like a Hawk" mode..... If you let go & let her have the autonomy she needs, then it's all on her. Stop trying to micromanage her, stop rescuing her by berating her into complying. Don't allow her to hold up the morning train! She gets one chance at success.....& then you're out the door.

Yes she lied about making the lunch. However, I think instead of making a fight about making it at night wake her up a half hour early so she has more time in the morning. A few days of getting up earlier might make her rethink the night packing.

Although, pulling weeds is a punishment I am sure she won't like and will help you, taking away the internet, the lifeline for a teens social life would probably cause her to get her act together quicker. Plus, it sounds like spending time on the computer is keeping her from getting her lunch made.

Obviously that's a lie. ANY lie is a lie. We are so strict on lying in our house that honestly (and you may think this is nuts, but we don't) we don't have Santa, Tooth Fairy, or Easter Bunny, because they are lies.

I think if she doesn't get her lunch together at night, you ought not to let her make one in the morning. A few days of that and she'll get it together. She won't starve. Good for you for punishing a lie.

It's a partial lie. She did put together her lunch, minus her sandwich. I would be upset, but let her know when she gets home, that when you ask her if she made her lunch, you expect her to tell you everything. I always tell my kids, if you tell me when I ask or when something happens I may get upset, but I will not yell.

Good luck!

Hi there,
As a parent, parent educator and a family coach, I empathize with all that there is to do.

My response is that whether or not she is lying is not the biggest issue. I would say that it is whether or not you guys have a close relationship. I really do agree with other posters who say that the most effective thing to do is to let her know the boundaries once and then stop talking about it. If she has to walk to school or ends up hungry one day, those consequences will be SO much more impactful than all of the nagging and reminding. So, set the boundaries and then follow through on what you say. Then spend the energy you spent nagging and reminding her on creating closeness with her. Kids go through so much at that age and need to feel like they are loved deeply while at the same time having more freedom.

This giving love while allowing more freedom as kids get older is a challenging balancing act, however it is well worth the effort. Some resources: The Five Love Languages by Chapman, Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg, and Redirecting Children's Behavior by Kvols.

Below is an article about effective ways to handle power struggles with kids (I believe you are having a power struggle about whether the lunch gets made in the morning or the evening.)
Blessings to you and your family.

Transforming Power Struggles with Children
Part 1: No I Won’t and You Can’t Make Me!
By Kimberly Smith Cavins, OTR, CPE, EFT-Cert

Coercive vs. Authentic Power
In the parenting classes I teach as well as in individual sessions with parents the most frequent question I am asked is some form of “how can I get my child to….go to bed, brush his teeth, do her homework, finish his chores, practice the piano, etc. etc”….you get the picture; as parents, we’ve all been there!
First, The Bad News
When it comes to getting kids to do what we think is best, many parents try to “get” or “make” kids do what we want. Unfortunately, this can be a losing proposition; oh sure when we attempt to use force to get our kids to do things they sometimes actually do those things, but usually at a pretty high price to either our relationship with our child and/or to our own peace of mind. We end up “riding herd”: nagging, yelling, threatening, reminding, punishing and saying the same things over and over again….no wonder so many parents are so exhausted!
The thing is, when a child is fighting for her autonomy, all of the nagging, threatening, punishing, etc. that we do today rarely makes a difference in the same behavior tomorrow. So it’s like you are Bill Murray’s character in “Groundhog Day” all over again…every day it’s the same struggle over the same things.
Out of the Mouths of Babes…
When my daughter April was 3 she taught me one of the most valuable parenting lessons in my life: many kids need autonomy like we all need air. I’m not kidding and I am not even exaggerating that much! If you have one of these children you know what I mean, and you know what it is like to have any agenda you might possess on any given day challenged at every turn!
Here’s how it went down. My daughter had fairly significant asthma as a baby and young child. On this particular day she was sick and home from school with a respiratory infection and her asthma had kicked in something fierce. We were working with a holistic physician who had prescribed herbs that really helped April breathe with more ease and she had been taking these herbs for several months as needed.
After lunch, I announced that it was “time for herbs” as I got up from the table to get them. She calmly informed me that she would not be taking them that day. Confused, because she was having so much trouble breathing and the herbs were so effective for her, I asked why. She, again calmly, told me that she “would rather be sick than have anyone be the boss of me”. (Trust me I know that most power struggles don’t occur calmly….I truly believe that there was Divine Intervention keeping us both calm just so that I could learn this lesson!)
This is when the light dawned. April’s need to have freedom and choice…to be the captain of her own ship…was so high that she would rather wheeze and cough than have me dictate when and if she received treatment. At that moment April was willing to sacrifice her health for her autonomy. Oh man! I could see that my need for control was stimulating April’s resistance to having good health!
Ok, I Get It! Now What do I Do?
This experience (after having many others, most of them way less calm) sent me on a quest to learn to parent a child with a high need for autonomy more effectively. How could I live harmoniously with her without being a doormat? How could needed things like herbs, bedtime, and good nutrition happen without all of the force and punishment? How could our days flow smoothly without so much struggle?
There are in fact some great strategies and tools for handling power struggles with kids. What years of study and experience have shown me is that tools alone will not transform ongoing power struggles with a child who has a high need for autonomy. In my experience, before we can effectively apply new tools and strategies we as parents must first undergo a change of paradigm and a change of heart. (Trust me, I hear the desire for tools! I will offer more tools and strategies in an upcoming article.)
Shifting Our Focus from Obedience to Cooperation
The way most of us have been taught to raise or interact with children is that we need to manage and control their behavior. Another way of saying this is that we have been taught that parents should use force or Coercive Power in order to get children to do (or not do) things. As I mentioned before, trying to “make” someone do something they don’t want to do doesn’t work in the long run; it is like plugging holes in a leaky dam. You plug one leak and another one springs right up!

In order to be more effective with a child with a high need for autonomy with whom we are having frequent power struggles it is important to begin to surrender our own desire for power and control. We can then begin to shift our focus to creating cooperation and closeness. This is the paradigm shift to Authentic Power. There are some simple but powerful steps toward a relationship based in authentic power.

"Power consists in one's capacity to link his will with the purpose of others, to lead by reason and a gift of cooperation." ~Woodrow Wilson

Step 1: Practicing Self-Empathy
It is very challenging to raise a child who has a high need for autonomy or to have a child in one of those developmental stages where autonomy is paramount, such as when a child is two or in his/her teens. It is really important to take time to connect to your feelings such as frustration, discouragement, anger and/or powerlessness. In the practice of Nonviolent Communication (NVC), the teaching is that our negative emotions are signposts that direct us to unmet needs. In the situation with April, I can see now that my emotions were primarily fear and powerlessness
Now that I know about unmet needs, in this circumstance I can identify my unmet needs as: contributing to April’s well being, good health, ease, competence, and cooperation. (FYI: I can now see that in trying to control April, I was decreasing the likelihood of my needs getting met.) After connecting to your needs, the next step is taking those needs to your heart. Go to www.cnvc.org for lists of feelings and needs. Contact me directly if you would like the “Steps for Self-Empathy”.
Step 2: Practicing Empathy For Your Child
After you practice self-empathy, you can then begin to have empathy for your child. Note: You will not be successful with this if you are still having strong emotions about the situation; if you are, return to self-empathy or find a friend who will give you some empathy. If that is not doing it for you, you might get a mentoring session or consult with a therapist. It is almost impossible to have empathy for another before having empathy for oneself.
Connect to your heart. From this connection, envision the event from your child’s perspective. What can you guess/intuit that he/she is feeling? In the example with April, I can now guess she was feeling tired, powerless, frustrated and angry.
Connect again to your heart. What needs do these emotions point to in your child? For April in that scenario, I can now guess that she was needing autonomy, freedom, choice, understanding and empathy. When I am able to connect with another in this way, I become way less attached to my agenda and more willing to seek harmony and a solution where everyone can win.
Step 3: Create a Win-Win
The next step is to create a solution based on the interests/needs/values you have identified for each person, and then start brainstorming solutions where everyone’s needs are met: a Win-Win!
In this example, one win-win solution might have been for April to set a timer with an amount of minutes that she had chosen and then she could have taken the herbs when the timer went off (this option would have given her more autonomy and still met my need for her health). I have never seen a situation where a win-win is impossible if people are willing to negotiate from the place of needs and are committed to closeness with the other person.
With a willingness to surrender your need for control, to practice connecting to your heart, and to practice empathy for yourself and your child, you can begin to build a foundation for cooperation in your family. You can begin to replace power struggles with ease and cooperation.

Kimberly Smith Cavins, OTR, CPE, EFT-Cert
"From the Heart" Family Healing

Helping people with:
~Parenting or Family Struggles
~Unhealed Emotional Issues, Trauma, or Illness
Who need Peace, Love, and Connection
Remedy Center for Healing Arts; 4910 Burnet Rd Austin, Tx 78756; ###-###-####, ____@____.com
"We can do no great things, only small things with great Love"~Mother Teresa

I think you don't have enough actual proof other than feeling the sandwich so you shouldn't make her pick weeds... this time. Trust her on this one. Apologize to her for accusing her of lying. And maybe ask her if buying school lunch would be a better option.

I do think that you should unplug the computer or put parental controls on the computer where the computer won't let her log online during certain hours. You can set things up so that she has her own profile on the computer itself, and then you can set up things as administrator so that she's only allowed on the computer until a certain time. It will automatically shut her out at the end time.

Then in the mornings you set an alarm for her. If she has a cell phone, shut off the internet on her phone period. No online access or texting on her phone. She doesn't need it. Block it completely so stuff won't even be sent or received. But go into her tools on the phone and set an additional alarm for the mornings. :-)

I'm curious, though, why she's responsible for getting your other daughter to school if she's frequently late. At least if your older daughter is late the only consequence is on her. She may not be old enough to be responsible enough to get your younger daughter to school.

She lied. So you did a punishment and stick to it. Talk to her about why it is important to be where she needs to be, be reliable on her word and not try to justify things with semantics. I also for the following things would remove anything that resembles freedom of communication, tiny apartment living from her room. Like if she has a computer in her room, it is now to be used down in the main living area even if it is a laptop, TV in her room?(no), cell phone...no, anything else you pay for? even if you don't and she has money it can be removed as you are paying for the house and responsible for her behavior. If she is willing to treat you poorly and you accept it that is how she will treat you. She will push for her independence, while you need to let her grow, she doesn't need a surly attitude and a megamedia complex in her own room to do it. Also if she persists on being late, she is the one to be late not the other child...drop her off first if she pulls this and walk your older one to class hand in hand to make sure she understands that you are the parent and you will handle things. She will be the late one, not the other child.

.

My goodness how stressful your mornings must be. Food is the one thing I will not fight over with the kids. It is just too much stress that focuses the attention on food.

I would say let her buy her lunch from now on and don't have the stress over the making her lunch or not.

Or, have a set time right after dinner when everyone comes in the kitchen and makes their lunch. We did that at a residential home I worked in. All the residents ate dinner and while the dishes were being done they all lined up and made their lunches for the next day. They yucky part was they put their full lunch boxes in the fridge. They sat on the floor during their lunch hour and that is just nasty...

If you are making one child lunch you need to start making everyone's lunches or teach the younger child to make their own. They are in school, they are old enough.

I am going to go a whole different route with this and ask....If you are making the 6 year olds lunch why is it so much more difficult to prepare two lunches at once? I make 3 lunches each night, one for my 10 yr old, one for my 15 yr old and one for my SO who works a night shift...honestly it doesn't take that much time, and I don't have to stress over a mess in my kitchen or bugging the kids to make sure they have made them. Of course they are all Capable of doing it themselves...it is just not worth it to me to press them to do so.