My daughter has been at this preschool for about 2 months. When I first called they said they had 2 members of staff for 15 kids. Which I thought was ok. But it turned out when I took her that in the morning there is a teacher and an aide, then after nap time the teacher goes home at 2pm, and it is just an aide, for all 15 kids. That right there is getting my goat. Then nap time problems, they want her to nap, but she doesn't, but they don't have the staff to do anything with her, so she has to sit quietly on her mat for 2 HOURS, she can't play or talk because she will wake the others, so she is playing up a little at nap time, as any 3 yo would. So they call me in, and tell me they are very worried about her because she won't sit still, and she shouts a lot (she is 3) and they are going to get a behavioral specialist to supervise her for a day, to see if there is anything wrong with her (didn't ask me, told me this)
Also I receive a form this week, asking for our household income, savings etc, which I think is very intrusive.
So I know the answer in my heart, but does all this sound bogus to you?
It is licensed and is actually a proper school, not a day care. The forms were apparently because they provide a free lunch, but I don't like to disclose out earnings to people, I know most of these people through various groups, and I would be embarrassed for them to know just how poor we are lol.
I looked at the ratios for Texas too, and yes apparently 15:1 is okay, but the aide is a 19 year old college kid.
And of course I looked at handbooks, and even went in for visits beforehand, which is how I knew that they and said they had 2 members of staff.
I'd yank her outta there faster than it took you to write that!
The teacher goes home and the aide stays???
A 2 hr. forced nap???
They think there is something wrong w/ her for acting like a normal 3yo.???
Get her outta there, Momma!
Red flags galore!
15 kids to one aide is against licensing regulations and you need to report them.
Yes, I would move her.
okay, Allison....going back to your previous posting on this issue:
you knew she was required to take a nap, knew it was a policy for this daycare. & in the original answers, it was mentioned many times that naps are a requirement for licensed facilities. Fast forward to today....nothing has changed.
Your daughter is required to honor naptime. If she cannot, then you will need to find a provider more able to provide for her individual needs. A home-based daycare will provide this for you....IF & only if it does not affect the other children. A personal nanny could also provide this for you. & honestly, your child would have to honor naptime in my daycare - it is my only break in 10 1/2 hour days.....& I guard it religiously!
Addressing the other issues: the behavioral specialist.....I don't know! I can see both sides of the coin on this one. Do I like it? Pretty much, no - but is there any harm in it? Not really....especially since you mentioned in your other post that she is "go, go, go"!
& as for that financial form, it is a requirement for many daycares. Perhaps this is a new requirement for them? ....hope all goes well! Peace!
It sounds to me that you are in denial. Your daughter should not be shouting a lot and should be able to sleep. It's bogus when people insist their children don't or shouldn't nap. Naps are important for brain function. Sleeping is important for healing and emotions.
I'm not a fan of 1 person for 15 kids. I agree with you there. But I don't believe they should need your permission to have someone watch her if they are concerned about her behavior. That's what preschool is for, to help her get ready for school.
I am assuming they are calling it a school but are actually licensed through the child care licensing agency for care that is more than the regular hours of a school associated with a school system/district such as Head Start. Due to the fact that you stated it is licensed. Schools do not get licensed. They are a school through the local school district and the teachers are employed by the state or through a private school fund if it's a private school.
They must have that income information to qualify for reimbursement for their groceries. They show they have a diverse group of families, they must be able to prove they feed 100% fruit juice, that their foods are healthy and good quality, and that they are providing good eating skills to the kids they are caring for. If they don't have the income verification they are asking for they could possible lose their contract with the agency they work with to get the reimbursement funds from. They also get extra money to pay staff to prepare the food and clean up after eating. It benefits them a great deal to gather this information. It is not something lightly treated, it is a great deal of money to them.
All children under Kindergarten age are REQUIRED to nap, if they just do not nap the are REQUIRED by the state, no matter where your child is staying through the day when you are not with them, they are required to at least rest during the time they have naps scheduled. The state regulations are not going to be ignored or not adhered to. Your child should be given quiet things to do AFTER the other children have dropped off, she needs to be quiet during this time so she won't wake the napping children up. It is a long time, I agree, it seems forever to a child. But her alternative is to lay down and try to fall asleep.
I have a 4 yr. old that will not go to sleep. He started being sent home after lunch because he thought it would be fun to run from his teacher and bounce on his sleeping friends heads to wake them up. Those other kids deserved to get their rest so I am glad to go get him so they can rest.
For 4 yr old children the regular class ratio for children to a teacher is 15 4 yr. olds. The age of the teacher makes no difference, and actually a younger teacher has much more energy in the afternoon than an older teacher. They play more with the kids, have more patience, will be able to problem solve better, etc...I always hired after school high school kids to take the late afternoon kids. It was just way more fun for the kids.
An actual school age child, at least 5 years old and enrolled full time in Kindergarten has a teacher child ratio of 20 kids to 1 teacher. So if your child will be in Kindergarten next year they will have even more kids per teacher.
It really sounds like you have an exceptional care giver facility for your child, whether they call themselves a school or child care, they are going by the STATE required rules and are trying to do the right things by your child.
As for them having someone come in and observe your child, schools are required to do this if they have any behaviors that seem to fit the criteria for possible issues that will effect the child's education. If the child has some sort of diagnosis from this observation and eventual more in depth interaction then the school will form a team of people who interact with the child and with the parents will write up an Individual Education Plan or and IEP that will be formatted to help this child reach the highest level of potential this child has. They are required to pay for the evaluations, the work with the student, and the staff to fulfill any special needs the child may have. But chances are they won't find anything at this age.
I don't know what the laws are for you but they are 10-1 for us in Illinois. Your aid should NOT be left alone with 15 kids at any time. There should be two people in the classroom at all times.
Your daughter should not be forced to sit in her cot for 2 hours. If she's not asleep in 30 minutes she should be allowed to play quietly with puzzles or books in another room.
Um, she can't sit still? That's called BEING THREE YEARS OLD. There is nothing wrong with your daughter. Usually I go by the age rule, children can usually sit for the same number of minutes as their age. So a three year old could probably sit still and do something for about 3 minutes and then be done. That's why timeouts are one minute for every year of their age. Most three year olds run around and shout a lot. But if the aide is left alone with 15 three year olds she probably can't manage them and that's why they are running around and shouting. She's probably frustrated with the children's behavior.
It also makes a difference if your daughter is a young three or an old three. Young three year olds have more problems sitting still because they are so young (basically just out of their twos).
Take your daughter out as soon as you can. Red flags everywhere!
YES, it does sound wrong to ask for your financial backround. I own a childcare center and have never asking for anything like that. In NJ the student teacher ratio is 1 teacher to 10 children for 3 year old children, not sure what it is for you. I have two teachers, but that is not always the case, a teacher and an aide is fine. However, an aide in the afternoon with 15 children is NOT okay. They should have 2 aides for aftercare. Most teaching staff does leave in the afternoons. My teachers work from 7:30-3:30 or 8:30 to 4:30. Each teachers stays late one night a week. By law children do not have to remain on their cots if they are not sleeping after 30 minutes, if they are understaffed then they should HIRE someone for nap time for the children who do not sleep, or allow them to get up and do a quiet activity, coloring, puzzles, computers etc. As long as they are quiet, for the sleeping children it should not be an issue. This happens often, most 3 year old children do not nap any longer. Bring it up to he director to give him or her the opportunity to rectify or explain what is going on. If you do not feel comfortable with her response and do not see any change the consider a new preschool. Good luck!!
You know you know what to do...run quick, run far.
I don't know what the rules are in your state, but in my state, preschool that is longer than 4 hours falls under Day Care regulations, (is it actually just preschool, or is it a day care?) and I don't think a 15:1 ratio is acceptable. And even if it is, for the childrens' safety, that's too many children for one person. What would she do in an emergency situation? How in the world could one person care for and comfort 15 3-year olds if say, an earthquake or something happened? And why do they nap at preschool?
Also~Unless your preschool is state backed or bases tuition on a sliding scale, I don't see any reason to request household financial info. I'm a Montessori School owner and it has never occurred to me to ask that of my families.
There must be other quality preschools in your area.
Mary
Doesn't sound good to me, I would sit down with the director and go over your concerns and clarify what their policies are. After that you'll know whether or not you want your daughter to stay there.
I'm with Emily - yikes! People like these are the reason that every other kid is medicated. It's tragic. What 3yo sits quietly for 2 hours? While 3yos can learn manners, their impulse control is not perfected at this age, so of course they outburst sometimes. Do they know children at all?
The aide should be the one going home. What the heck? I think the fact that the certified (?) teacher is not present for the rest of the day is a huge liability.
Forget them.
As a former daycare teacher I can tell you that the 2 hour nap time is normal. They can't make her nap, but she may need to lie there quietly, but their reaction to her is a bit odd. She may be able to read a book, or allowing her to bring a favorite animal with her might help.
I agree that they should have your permission to have any evaluations done. To me she sounds like a normal 3 year old. some don't nap, some do but all are busy and loud lol.
As far as the paperwork, you don't have to fill it out completely, but I believe you need to sign it and return it. The reason they need that is there is a programs for lower income families and the daycare is required to submit the paperwork for every family. At my son's daycare I just filled out the name and signed it I didn't fill out any of the income info.
Also according to the state minimum standards the maximum number of 3 years olds per teacher is 15, so it is OK for 1 teacher to be in charge of 15.
You can read more about the minimum standards and other info here:
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/child_care/child_care_standar...
Not all daycares are a good fit for every child. If your instincts are telling you to find a new place, then you should! when my son was 4 we went through 3 different ones before we found a good one!
The form re:household income is normal. We've filled one out for every place my daughter has been.
With that said, my 4 yo has attended 5 places - for various reasons, some worse than others. BUT my suggestion is follow your gut! If the place does not feel right, then take her to another place. I do not know of a normally developing 3 yo who does not shout, and can sit still for 2 hours.... that is hard for any child!
In FL, the ratio for daycare staff for 3 yo is 1:15 - are you able to check for TX?
I have found places that have lower ratios, but of course, they are more expensive to compensate for the ratio -- it was worth it, for us.
Having been down a similar road, I am betting they want your daughter examined by a behavior specialist so that they can get an aide assigned just to her for free, courtesy of taxpayer dollars.
I really don't think they can force this on you. You could always opt for this for peace of mind, but from the little bit I've read, her behavior doesn't sound out of line for a 3-year old. My son's school tried to force an evaluation on us last year. After talking to the director of special ed services for our district, plus his pediatrician, I opted against the evaluation - mainly because I knew there was nothing really wrong. And nothing really was wrong - he was just 3.
Only one kid out of 16 napped in his nursery class last year - the rest sat quietly or watched a TV show, but naptime was only 45 minutes - NOT 2 hours.
Do they have adequate recess time at this facility? Personally, from what you describe, I think I would look around for another place.
Take her out, and the next time you know for a fact that the school is consistently leaving just an aide with 15 children alone rather than the 10:1 ratio, call CPS.
What daycare makes 3 year olds take two HOUR naps? Holy cow.
Is this place licensed? Our licensing requirements (WA) have a max of 10:1 ratio for kids between 3 and 5. As soon as child #11 arrives in the morning they either get an additional adult in there or on occasion ask one of the children to play in another class for a while, until a teacher comes in. They are VERY serious about this!
As for the form, you should only get a form like that if you are getting any kind of financial aid from the school or your state. There are also free-meal-eligibility forms that request similar information. If you are not receiving free meals or financial support, don't give out that information!
In Texas, the legal ratio of child/teacher in preschool is 1:15 for 3 year olds. So legally, they are not doing anything wrong by sending a person home at 2, leaving only one adult in the room. And many full-day preschools have a required rest time in the afternoon. That doesn't mean that this is a good fit for your daughter though - different kids thrive in different situations. I think you should probably start interviewing other preschools, and specifically ask them the teacher schedules in the room, and the kids' schedule. You should also let them know up-front that your daughter doesn't nap and ask how the teachers in the room will handle that.
As for the form, I have no idea why the would ask this. I've never been asked that kind of information. I wouldn't fill it out, and if they ask for it, make them explain why they need it.
I would say NO to a school that had one teacher for 15 3 yr olds
That doesn't sound like preschool - that sounds like daycare. Preschool classes are at most 2 hours. Either way, I would move my kid to a more appropriate facility.
I found Texas State Licensing Standards here:
Apparently 15:1 is okay for 3 yr olds in Texas.
WOW, as far as the staffing issue this is VERY common in centers as a young adult I worked in 2 national chains. ANd they did this to me all the time. Plus what they pay the staff is rediculous compared to what they charge you. Ususally no more than minimum wage. That's why once my childdren were born I left and started in my home. Taking 3 of the children with me. Their parents pd me the same as what they were paying the center and now their children were in a smaller setting with more attention. As far as thembringing in a behavioral specialist NO that's not their place. And your personal finances are just that PERSONAL. I'd start looking right now. Check out Care.com for a qualified care giver in your area. Good luck.
Updated
WOW, as far as the staffing issue this is VERY common in centers as a young adult I worked in 2 national chains. ANd they did this to me all the time. Plus what they pay the staff is rediculous compared to what they charge you. Ususally no more than minimum wage. That's why once my childdren were born I left and started in my home. Taking 3 of the children with me. Their parents pd me the same as what they were paying the center and now their children were in a smaller setting with more attention. As far as thembringing in a behavioral specialist NO that's not their place. And your personal finances are just that PERSONAL. I'd start looking right now. Check out Care.com for a qualified care giver in your area. Good luck.
I don't think i would want my 3 year old there. If you want to give it another try, you should definitely try to observe the classroom and bring up your concerns to the director. When my daughter went to preschool/daycare, nap was required. However, kids were allowed to look at books and after a certain amount of time they could get up and play quietly. I don't think I would want to lie down quietly for 2 hours. That is a long time for anyone! And many 3 year olds don't nap that long anymore. Maybe you could find a half day preschool for her so naptime wont be an issue?
you seriously knew nothing about how they run the place before you enrolled??? There was no parent handbook, you didnt come in for an observation, there was nothing posted or discussed about a daily schedule???
First off, if a kid is at school long enough to NAP then it is DAYCARE not preschool.
At this point, you need to sit down again, make an appointment ahead so no one is caught off guard which is what it sounds like happened just now.
Usually evaluations like that are free, honestly i want to tell you to go through with it because if they call in professionals, the professionals will see how ridiculous their expectations are and laugh at them. I will say though that most people who have been teaching for a while can pick up when something isn't right with a kid. and in that case they would be doing you a favor by having her evaluated.
I find it strange that all the other 14 kids are actually napping. What's up with that? Some kids do stop napping at 3, Is that what happened with your DD or does she nap at home?? how does she fall asleep at home? If it's front of the tv they can't replicate that at school but if it's with a lovey and a lullaby you can send that to school.
As far as the form goes about your income, I think you need to be a little more forth coming about what the title of the form was. Is this for some sort of goverment assistance to cover your childcare bill?? Ifyou don't know what it is for you need to ask them. At this point if she's been there for 2 months you should have your payments to them all worked out. If this is for the evaluation then it's coming through what ever intervention services your state has NOT the day care and probably needs to be returned to the invervention services.
Bottom line find a new place if you need to, But make sure you ask a ton of questions and Observe.
I would move her. For them to ask for a 3yr to sit quietly for 2 hrs is not right. I had my daught in daycare befor she went to school but I looked many places for her. But yes 15 kids to 1 teacher is right.
It was wrong for them to tell you they were going to call a specialist for her. If theres no problem with her that you can tell for your self then I would let them do it.
I am a director of a preschool and I definitely think that you should high tail it out of there. First of all one person should never be left with 15 kids. That is not safe or responsible. And it is not reasonable to expect a 3 year old to nap for two hours. My three year old is one of the few that still naps in my circle of friends and she sleeps for an hour max at home. Third I don't like the way that they just told you that they are having a specialist come in. Where is the specialist from? I would take your daughter out and find another preschool tomorrow.
