Oh Man, I Hate Disciplining My Child

Yeah it is just one of the necessities of parenting...what are you gonna do? We are all in the same boat, nobody likes to see their kid upset and certainly to see a beautiful moment or day messed up with bad behavior and discipline but it is just the job. Sometimes I think parents that do have to work outside do have to spend more time dealing with discipline simply bc they have to get all their testing done in a shorter amount of time. My husband will walk in and there goes my son in testing mode! I don't think the form of discipline not always being the same is as important as just doing whatever you say. Like if you say there will be a time out if xyz happens, the you have to follow through with that. As long as you do what you say you will, I don't think you have to do the same thing always. Just hang in there and be consistent by doing whatever you say and realize that nobody likes to do it, just has to be done....

You need to get over that working mom guilt about teaching your son proper behavior, and fast. None of us who work and have kids love to spend what time we have with them disciplining or in punishment mode, but that's our job as parents. I work in an elementary school, and there are so many kids whose parents obviously didn't think it was important to teach them proper behavior, responsibility for their actions, respect, etc. I'll tell you that telling a toddler, "Now Sam, it's not nice to kick mommy" is not disclipline and not going to teach him not to do it. Make him cry now, I promise he won't be traumatized for life if you trot him right over to the timeout chair facing the wall for 2-3 minutes every time he misbehaves. Trust me on this, my kids are 12 and 16, and they are not traumatized. I know you think he's the cutest and most precious thing ever, but the other people who he has to deal with in life will NOT be in love with him, and won't find a badly behaved, disrespectful boy cute, sweet or adorable. Please don't set your son up to be disliked by others.

You probably won't like my answer M.... and I'm not trying to be mean, but honest and realistic. Your little guy might irresistibly cute now, even with his whininess and minor behavior issues, but he will not be cute in about another year. You need to redefine yourself in a different way; not as a push over. It's a terrible excuse not to parent your son effectively and teach him good boundaries. As hard as this seems to you now, it will be a thousand times worse the longer you wait. AND if you don't do it now, the "small amount of time" you describe having with him will become a nightmare.

I haven't read all of the posts, but since this is such a helpful and resourceful group of Mamas, I would imagine that there are some parenting books that have been recommended. "Parenting With Love and Logic" is a good one to start with. Go to the library or look for it used on Amazon. Another big favorite of mine has been "Raising An Emotionally Intelligent Child."

Do the work now, M.. I'm telling you inconsistent boundaries and caving to his wants because you can't bear to see/hear him cry are recipes for disaster. You'll wake up one day to a mighty terror, wondering how in the world he got this way and it will be so much harder to change.

And if it helps you... this is not good for him either. Kids thrive on consistency, clear expectations and clear consequences. It creates security and self confidence, not to mention a child who spends time behaving and enjoying activities rather than constantly testing boundaries and running circles around his exasperated Mama. You gotta step up. Pour all of that love you have for him into making sure that you're teaching him good solid boundaries. Kids are so smart. They learn very quickly how to push your buttons and get what they want, and they lose respect for a parent who can't follow through. There are lots of lessons in these early stages that carry on through future years.

Good luck~

For us, the consequence has to relate to the offense. My DD's a little older, so her offenses are different, and it's probably easier to enforce at this age, but it does work.

For instance, we are at the store & told her she could pick a puzzle. Instead, she chose to pout & didn't want to pick. She got one chance to straighten up & she did not. So, she lost the opportunity for the puzzle and she left empty handed.

The other day she decided she wanted to pay at the table during lunch & not put her toy down after she was asked once to do so. We don't play at the table, period, so she lost the lunch & went to her room. She did eat part of it & had had snacks before it, so no, she wasn't starving.

After doing a million things that didn't work, she understands this method the most. She gets one warning, and if she doesn't comply, the consequence is enforced.

No negotiating, no arguing, no discussion, and follow through. They have to know you're not a push over & that you mean business & that you are the boss.

Compared to how most people parent nowadays, I'm sure I'm considered mean, but I don't care - I refuse to have a brat who runs me & doesn't respect me, like a lot of kids I see out there. Her psyche will not be damaged & yes she will be mad (and will quickly get over it), but that's okay - I truly believe that you're not doing your job as a parent if your child isn't mad at you some of the time. Kids need structure, boundaries, rules, and to know what to expect.

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Please consider finding some Love and Logic classes somewhere. Our local elementary school hosts them a few times a year, our local mental health facility does also. They teach positive discipline techniques that make sense.

For example, in my case this is one that worked greatly.
If your child keeps taking off their shoes each and every time you get in the car then you have to put them on each and every time you want to get out then you have to stop saying stuff like "your feet will get cold on the snow if you take your shoes off" or "your feet will get blisters on them if you don't have shoes on to walk on the concrete". It took one time of her having to walk to the deck with no shoes on in the ice and snow, about 12 feet. She screamed the whole way for me to pick her up but she lived, she didn't get frost bite, she didn't have any damage at all. She has never taken her shoes off in the car since.

The logical consequence of taking off her shoes is being barefoot. She doesn't like the consequence of being barefoot in the snow. She wears her shoes in the car all the time now.

It is a very good seminar and easy to enjoy. You'll laugh, you'll empathize, you'll learn skills to use with everyone in your life. My adult daughter just looks at me sometimes and cannot figure out how her request turned on her so quickly....

In your state.
http://loveandlogic.com/facilitators/search.aspx?id=MN

Hi M.,

It IS difficult to have to constantly guide, refocus, redirect, discipline... and to know when to ignore. I'm putting a link right here to my blog, a post I wrote called "What to do with a Whiny Youngster". I've worked with young children (as a nanny, preschool teacher and mother) for nearly 20 years and have found these techniques to be most helpful in NOT escalating the 'whinies'.

http://skyteahouse.blogspot.com/2010/09/what-to-do-with-w...

I like everything Julia had to suggest, and would add that Love and Logic classes Gamma G suggested can really give you some guidance as far as 'what's the reasonable disciplinary method' for your little one. The 'picture' of it will become clearer for you and you will become more confident. I also really highly suggest the book "Taking Charge:Loving Discipline that Works at Home and At School" by JoAnne Nordling. In this book, she points out that parents are sometimes Type A parents (authorative) or Type C parents (Permissive).... she shows us how to become Type B parents, authoratative and empathetic. I think this book will help YOU find a way of parenting that feels 'safe' on your end and is effective on his end.

I just want you to remember one thing, M.: you are not just raising your sweetie child, you are helping to raise that child up into an adult. While this shouldn't force us to have age-inappropriate expectations, it's something we all have to keep in mind.

I have a sister-- love her a lot-- who is so afraid of her teen child's emotional upset that she badly handled a theft situation earlier in the year because she was afraid the child would have a meltdown. She was afraid to follow through because it would hurt his feelings (my opinion). Apparently, he is a bit more resilient than she thought because he's since stolen her credit card from her purse and has charged a bunch of stuff on it.

We do our children no favors by not disciplining them. Discipline doesn't have to mean PUNISHMENT, it means a practice of giving loving and clear guidance. It *is* loving to take away the crayons and say "I see we need to clean up X", and even when he cries, he's learning that when he doesn't use the crayons/markers correctly, they go away for a while.

I'd also just throw out this idea: what was your own experience of being parented like? If you had an extreme situation, you might equate parenting and discipline with your own sadness and pain. There is a middle ground, it doesn't have to be "all or nothing". As adults, we can create a safe environment for our children, have reasonable, age appropriate expectations for our children, and give firm limits and guidelines. At this age, we are helping our children navigate their way through life. They cannot safely 'pilot' themselves. Pour on the hugs at times when it makes sense to do so, and give clear guidelines and limits, *without guilt on your part*. If you cannot master your ambivilance regarding parenting, believe me, your son will. Seeing this play out as children get older, and especially in the example I gave you-- it's not pretty!

Go with the most natural consequence - if he makes a mess, he needs to clean up, if he ruins something, he needs to help replace it (in a manner appropriate to his age). I use time-out for more severe consequences (like coloring on the sheets or outright defiance) but not for minor infringements.

The big thing right now is to be aware of his limitations and abilities. Cause and effect is just beginning to click, so there is very little where he actually does "know better" and know that he shouldn't do it. That's what you're teaching him with discipline. But remember than right now the most valuable thing is to be aware of what he is doing as much as possible and redirecting him away from undesired activities to something better.
Also remember that discipline is an ongoing thing. You won't be able to do "perfect discipline" for the next year and be done. You'll still be disciplining him 10 years from now and through the teen years. The methods will change, the infractions will change, but it'll always be there!

One last comment - focus on teaching him what is right and making good choices based on your family values, rather than just staying out of trouble. As kids get older and get involved with peers, they need to know how to make decisions without you necessarily there, and it will be much better if their motivation is to make good choices whether mom is watching or not.

We've all seen kids who seem willful, devious, out of control, and parents who make plenty of warnings and threats, but demonstrate little follow through. The lack of follow-through and consistency is the primary problem, no matter what parenting style is employed (here's one fairly simplified description of styles: http://psychology.about.com/od/developmentalpsychology/a/...)

I was raised by a strongly Authoritarian mother, and every memory I have of my childhood is miserable. So I raised my completely delightful daughter as an Authoritative parent, incorporating many techniques that would now be called compassionate or positive parenting. And in my religious community, I've watched 2 generations of happy, well-behaved children raised this way, without negativity or spanking. They exhibit as much self-control and ability to deal with frustration as any "strictly" raised child.

So I am convinced that negative punishments are probably seldom needed. But what is needed, if you weren't raised this way yourself, is a good book or two for general guidance and supportive resource material.

The two books I'd suggest for a child of 2.5 are The Happiest Toddler on the Block, by Dr. Harvey Karp, and How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Faber and Mazlish. I started using the techniques in this second book when my grandson was 2.5, and have had consistently brilliant results. He's now 5.5, and we are the most amazing team. And the ideas in Happiest Toddler are so sensible and kind, and keep a child's emotional needs in focus, allowing for a low-stress transition through toddlerhood for both child and parents.

You can also watch a few quick videos about Dr. Karp's approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ1428uYs2g&NR=1&a.... . He demonstrates exactly how he "speaks" the toddler's language so they know he's heard the need they are expressing. This calms them and makes it easier for them to cooperate.

In case and of these are new to you, here is a list of my favorite tips for happily coexisting with a toddler:

1. Hold in mind that your son is not "trying" to be naughty; he's trying to meet some need, and he has a very poor repertoire of strategies with which to try. Children truly don't want to cause problems or get in trouble if they have any other way at all to meet their own growing need for autonomy, independence, and control of their circumstances. For a couple more years, he just won't see very much from your point of view. He can't help it. Dawdling, digging in heels, bolting, and even tantrums are often a natural outcome of being more scheduled, pressured, disappointed or frustrated than he can endure. And some children have a MUCH harder time of it than others.

2. There are lots of positive ways to approach discipline (which actually means teaching, and not punishment), rather than just saying no. Kids who hear NO! often become so frustrated. So look for ways of finding a mutual "yes," and save "no" for those occasions when children are trying something dangerous. Instead of "Put that remote down!" for example, try "Hey, look at this (dead) cell phone!" There will also be times when you must have cooperation, like diapering or trips to the store, so keep a special toy or distraction that he gets to play with only at those times. You may be able to avoid a whole lot of "No; Hands Off; Stop that; Put that down."

3. Keep it playful, and keep it respectful. Children learn primarily through play and imitation. You may need help with this if your parents didn't model a lighthearted and kind approach when you were little. The book Playful Parenting is a great resource. Your son's sense of humor is developing, crude though it may be. (Also be aware that some "behaviors" like throwing are a natural experimental activity for kids, a form of play that is programmed into them for the purpose of developing brain/body connections. Find plenty of "acceptable" outlets for those repeating behaviors.)

4. Here's a big one: GIVE ADVANCE NOTICE when you'll want him to be doing anything differently, especially when he's grooving on some activity/play. Children absolutely hate unexpected transitions. With my grandson, we let him know at least a couple of times that a change is coming ("We're going to go to the store / have lunch / take a nap pretty soon." … and then a second alert a minute before making the change.)

5. Whatever the next activity is, make it sound as desirable as possible. Give some detail about the ride in the car, or a favorite food at lunch, or sweet snuggles before nap. Be positive and enthusiastic. And be calm. Desperation will show, and even though he's too young to deliberately engage in a planned power struggle, he will quite naturally sense any cracks in your resolve. And this is where future power struggles truly can begin.

6. Learn his limits. Try to keep demands low when he's tired, over-managed, hungry, or sick. He won't have any emotional reserves left with which to cooperate.

7. Get to know his most likely trouble-spots, and plan ahead. For many kids, it's when they they've SEEN something tempting. So keep those things out of sight when possible. Be prepared with a distraction – for example, another toy he likes when you have to take some fascinating object away, or a healthy treat when he wants a sweet snack. Laughter, introducing a new game, a few twirls and bounces, hugs or tickles, a goofy song, can help break into his determination to get something he wants (that short attention span is both a curse and a blessing). And those interactions will give him some of the positive strokes he might be missing now that a new baby is distracting you more.

8. Avoid bribes, but let him work toward occasional rewards. Don't try to buy cooperation with "IF you'll do X, we'll let you have Y." Instead, phrase it as if he gets to assist in advancing something good for himself: "Hey, as soon as you help me get X done, then we get to do Y." It sounds like a small distinction, but it's important. It gives the child a chance to cooperate in what feels to him like choice, even when there's no "if" about it.

9. Encourage lots and lots of physical activity during the day. Time outdoors in nature is calming for most children. If he has pent-up energy, it will have to come out some way, and unless channeled in a positive direction, it will likely to add to both your stress and his.

10. Limit TV time – the passive receptivity to all that fast editing seriously interferes with children's normal brainwave patterns, making focus, cooperative behavior, and engagement in the "real" world more difficult.

11. Whatever you are trying to teach will need to be repeated hundreds of times over the next few years. That's completely normal. Attention spans and impulse control are extremely limited in toddlers, and the areas of the brain where those connections are being made develop only gradually during the toddler years.

12. Spanking and time-outs don't work for every kid, and for some will actually backfire over time. Children may be annoyed, intimidated, shocked, or shamed into compliance, but behaving for the sake of avoiding discomfort is NOT the same thing as developing an internalized sense of "good." Consistent, calm guidance and modeling what you DO want from him will work better in the long run than punishing for what you DON'T want him to do. See more on this by googling The Science of Parenting or Emotion Coaching.

13. Pay attention to what you love and appreciate about your son, and make sure he knows. Treat him with calm and respectful authority. Children crave attention, appreciation, and approval, and if he knows you're noticing his good moments, he'll try to create more of them.

14. Be open to learning new things about your little boy daily, even hourly. Often, what we think or assume gets in the way of noticing what is actually happening.

I wish you well. Enjoy your little boy – this is a challenging AND rewarding age!

You can love your son ridiculously (I do all my children) and to discipline him doesn't mean you don't. We parents need to discipline BECAUSE we love our children and want them to grow into responsible, caring, contributing positively to society human beings. You are more than likely considering your lack of time together due to your working when he needs discipline, I did the same thing for a time, but he needs to know that he has rules and consequences and that's the way it is in life.

As for the whing, ignore him. Tell him that you can't understand him when he talks like that, and pretend you can't hear him and do something else until he asks in a normal voice. I just say, "Oh, I'm sorry but I can't understand you when you talk like that," and repeat if necessary. If he cries tell him he needs to go to his room until he stops, then he may ask to come out. When he uses a clear, non-whining voice praise him profusely, and tell him how much you love it when you can understand him, and honor his request if you can. (Wanting candy for dinner would be another matter altogether, lol!)

Try not to get angry with him as he's learning and above all, be consistent. He's watching you and learning how people respond to him and his behavior, and if you allow whining one time and not the next you're confusing him. Since he colored on your sheets and magazines I would take his crayons or whatever he used and put them up until "he can use them the right way on paper." Sometimes a consequence like that shows them what they did was wrong more than a time-out. And when he wants them the next time you can remind him that he doesn't know how to use them so you're saving them until he's older. And, when you do allow him to use them again don't let him color unsupervised, that's really asking for trouble ; )

I would encourage you to go back to the basics:

First, rethink the word "discipline". Discipline is not punishing. Discipline means to teach, train, guide ... to work consistently to achieve the desired result.

Punishment is a penalty.

When you tell your child "You must hold Mommy's hand when we are about to cross the street. And we're going to cross at the crosswalk, and look both ways for cars", that's disciplining.

When your child fusses and lets go of your hand and darts into the road, and you then take him back into the house and say "we cannot go to the playground now, because you did not hold Mommy's hand and you did not cross the street carefully", that's punishment.

So that disciplining time can be a beautiful, loving time. You are teaching and training your child to be a responsible and well-behaved, loved child.

Look your child in the eyes when you discipline. Get down on his level and speak clearly and calmly. Do the disciplining before the activity. "Mommy is going to give you some crayons and paper and we're going to color together! Let's draw a dinosaur! You must only color on this paper." Then when he gives you that look and draws on your book, the punishment happens. "You colored on my book and now our coloring time is over". Don't over-react or freak out, just put the crayons away and don't give him your eye contact or time. Short and simple. Eye contact and child-level and calm clear words.

When you are reacting to him and interacting with him when he's doing what is right, that's loving discipline. Rewarded behavior will increase, ignored behavior will decrease (and by "rewarded" I don't mean toys and privileges, but Mommy's time and words and interaction).

I don't know if this makes sense, but it's just my thoughts.

My heart goes out to you because I know you must be a little tired and worn out doing this all by yourself! Kids whine when they are testing a boundary line and wondering where the safe structure is. Part of loving a child is creating safety and structure for them so they can feel confident and respected as they grow. Creating a routine for your child is the first step to creating a safe environment. As a freedom loving adult this was especially difficult for me to do but I was amazed at the effect it had on my children. They went from being whiny,unhappy messes to being happy,confident,helpful children! Make your daily routine relaxed and easy to follow but the same everyday. Also make sure to avoid long unstructured periods of time. Children this age learn everything by experimentation and they will get into lots of trouble if unsupervised! Get playdough and sit with him for a 1/2 hour creating together(paint,color,cut w/scissors,do a puzzle), then go for a walk to the park or visit the humane society home for lunch, have him help you prepare and clean up lunch, quiet time with story or video then meet up with mom friends together or join a playgroup. Go to the library,zoo,park etc but always make sure to keep it at a certain hour and never skip the things you do in the morning like bath,breakfast,brush teeth,wash dishes. Same at night. Seems so boring to adults but kids love it. He'll put up a fuss at first,don't stress-you know you love him more than anything,just stick to it and you'll see.

At this age is when they know if they have boundaries or not....you are allowing him to slowly take control of the house....

yes, consistency counts...consequences for any action - good for the right/correct actions and bad for the wrong/bad decisions...and yes, at almost 3 - they are learning to make decisions..

You can't be switching around the punishment for him - it MUST BE CONSISTENT EVERY TIME for EACH boundary/rule broken....

pick your battles....

for example: fighting you over sunscreen - I KNOW this is important - however, he needs to get a slight burn ONCE and he has learned his lesson.

shoes on - steps on one piece of glass or burns his little feet - understands shoes are important. or socks on the feet - blisters from not wearing socks? he will learn...

I realize you want to protect him and keep him from harm - but he needs to learn the reasons - not just being told what will happen - he will LEARN them...like Gamma says about the shoes in the winter or the summer...

My kids know that if I pick up their toys - they have lost them...to donations or ebay or something...so they pick up their toys....they know that I will wash their clothes and fold them - but I will NOT put them away and I will NOT bring them down to be washed....they also know that if they change clothes 4 times in day - they will have MORE laundry to put away...granted mine are now 11 and 9 (in 19 days) and my expectations have been set.

At almost 3 - there were rules and consequences set up...they know that NO MEANS NO...no matter how many times they ask it...whining gets them NO ATTENTION from me...i tell them I cannot hear what they are saying through their whine.....

YOU CAN DO THIS...just because he's cute doesn't mean he can't be cute and disciplined!!!

different things work for different kids. the key is to find out what he doesn't like the most and go with that. my son doesnt' care about being swatted. so i send him to his room. my daughter doesn't care about time outs so i swat her. i really don't care to swat honestly, but she is 7 and getting an attitude that i don't know where it came from :). when mine were your sons age. i got a chair and put it in the middle of the room. they had to sit there for how many minutes old they were. they hated this, too, because they saw what was going on and couldn't join in. i don't think anyone wants to discipline, we'd rather have kids that were born knowing how to behave :0. unfortunately they aren't made that way. so if we want good kids we won't "spare the rod"

Several of my friends used the love and logic technique and have really awful kids. They were terrible toddlers, and now they are terrible older kids. Parents love it because it's so "loving". But it's NOT logical, because the nice gentle various reactions you have for things your kids do are not FIRM and do not teach a child that when you do seriously wrong things in life, there can be dire consequences. You need to teach that lesson firmly but in proportion to toddler years, so that your child can learn self control and move past the chronic discipline phase quickly. You have to watch out for programs that are more concerned with "avoiding discipline" than teaching right behavior. If you are firm and consistent NOW, you will not have these problems later. Pick your firmest consequence. Be absolutely consistent with it for defiance, aggression, tantrums and whining, and soon, your son will learn it is NOT allowed, and he will CONTROL HIMSELF, and then you can loosen up and be the fun laid back mom when he's 3 and 4 instead of the mom with the totally out of control whiny love and logic kid who is brooding and disrespectful, all because you wanted to stay "positive" all the time. It's OK and NECESSARY to discipline kids. Always be calm, clear, give one warning, not 20, and enforce. It prevents TONS of discipline later.

Redirection: NO. Tricking a child out of doing something in the moment does not teach them they are not allowed to do it. Time out: Only you know if your child is one of the few gentle souls who cares about "sitting somewhere else" for a few minutes enough to avoid the behavior the next time around. I wouldn't even count those as discipline personally.

This book is great to show a loving and successful but ALSO FIRM when needed approach. Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson. I've got 3 kids under 5 to myself 90% of the time, and they are completely happy and well behaved thanks to not letting things spiral out of control. I've never yelled at them, and we spend almost no time on discipline. They have tons of freedom and a free range style. the ages between one and 3 are CRUCIAL. If you drop the ball now, watch out until teen years.

People are shocked to hear how "firm" my husband and I were with the kids as toddlers, because all they know is that we have silly affectionate nice kids who "never need discipline". I'm always accused of having "easy" kids. Yeah right. My 3rd would have put any raging toddler to shame since the age of 9 months, but at 2, she's past it and has awesome maturity and self control and is affectionate and funny. And she didn't just "grow out of it."

If you like the love and logic style for yourself great, but if you child does not learn to conquer the basics in awful behavior QUICKLY so you can get PAST it, don't blame your child for being too difficult, be prepared to step it up. At 2.5 his bad habits are already cementing in big time, so I wouldn't waste too much time avoiding discipline because you don't like it.

I hear you! I'm such a pushover with my youngest. He's so adorable, I just want to eat him up! It's hard to discipline someone so cute and little. I suppose time-outs are our main tool,and most definitely having consequences for actions every time. It's like losing weight, we all know how it works, we just have to have the motivation to do it!

M., why would anyone be mean to you? And I don't recall anyone being mean in your last post. You are going through regular parenting stuff and it's normal to want your limited time with your son to be enjoyable.

Consistent discipline is EXHAUSTING, but after a short time you will see that it totally pays off. Love and Logic is a great way to go. I hope your precious time with your son becomes all the more precious as you get things under control.
I have a super strong willed child and after we learned to direct her strong will, things got much more peaceful around our house!

Good luck!

I've disciplined mine from the time they started throwing a tantrum being laid down on the changing table at 8 months ("no, you need your diaper changed. here, play with this toy while we take care of this"). Teaching them empathy from the first time they bopped a child, whether intentional or accidental, by marching them over and saying to the other child "I'm so sorry I bumped (poked, hit, etc.) you." Yes, I spoke for them, but that is how they learned it. And believe me when I tell you that so many children in school (I teach) lack empathy nowadays. This is something I am constantly teaching my students.

If you don't want to be the parent who is constantly contacted by the school of the child who is constantly in the office, serving detention, missing valuable learning time due to constant disciplinary problems and thus setting themselves up for academic failure, discipline your child now. You will be doing yourself and your child a huge favor.

You have so many excellent responses so far, I'm not sure how much I can add, except to just reinforce how important it is to nip problem behavior in the bud now, because it really is so much easier to deal with it now compared to when they are older. I know you know that, but you really need to start believing it and believing enough in yourself as a disciplinarian in order to be effective as one. Realize that loving him means teaching him how to be the best little human being (and eventually big human being) he can be. Think of it this way (and by saying this I am in no way implying that he's going to grow up to be a criminal, just reinforcing that it starts now): would you rather be the one disciplining him now, or have the police disciplining him later?