Kid Failing College

If you are funding her, then you need to stop. I have a 19 year old who is away at school now. Her dad and I told her that we would not pay for her to go away to a community college just so she could be near her boyfriend. We agreed to help her out if she lived at home and went to a local school. Well, she chose to move away. She works and pays for her own living expenses. She applied and got financial aid--all by herself. She has never been a good student, but she is working hard to stay afloat. She has even learned on her own how to cook, clean, do laundry and budget. Her dad and I desperately tried to be good parents, but she rebelled constantly and moved away the first chance she could.

The point of my post and my story is this: Some kids need to learn on their own. You need to cut the apron strings and let her go.

Wow. I can understand being upset but I'd be more upset that she lied instead of that she failed. It's almost like you let her go off to college expecting her to fail and are now almost pulling an 'I told you this wasn't going to work' move. She lied because you made it impossible for her to let you know exactly what was going on.

Not all young adults are cut out for college after high school and some aren't cut out for it at all ever. Unless you are footing bills (and cosigning for student loans hooks you into footing bills if she doesn't pay) you need to step back and let her make it or not. Some of the best life lessons are learned the hard way. If you are on the hook for money with cosigning student loans, paying for a car on campus, paying room and board, etc then make this semester the last you will be subsidizing unless she ends the semester with c's in 4 classes.

I would take her out of college for now and let her get a job. She isn't ready for college right now. College is not always for everyone. Students have to have a reason to be motivated.

Take her out, before it's too late to withdraw and get a refund.

p.s. - You don't need to fund her college, failing or otherwise.

This is turning into an expensive lesson.
3 F's and a D?
None of that is going to look good on a transcript.
Maybe college isn't what she needs to be doing right now.
It might be good for her to come home, hold down a job, maybe rent an apartment with a roommate and go to a community college till she has a better idea what she wants to do.
There are plenty of things she can do - trade school is an option.
She won't be a failure but it might take her some time to figure out what she will be good at.
She'll appreciate it more if she's paying her own bills.

My first question for you is: Are you paying for her school (or any portion of college expenses)?
If not, then, although you are "allowed" to be disappointed, all you can do is voice your opinion & suggestions, and let it go! This was my situation in college: My parents contributed nothing (tuition, room, books, living expensed), nothing! (I understand they still had 3 kids at home and barely enough money to go around.) But, as far as I was concerned, they had no right to know my information--and I didn't tell them. I had a few bad grades over the years... and it took me 5.5 years to finish my Bachelor's Degree, but *I* did it. ME, not them. I then went on to ace my graduate courses and complete my Master's Degree. I also still have thousands in student loan debts.

If you ARE paying/contributing, then I think you have an enormous say in what's going on. This is similar to my sister's situation. Mom & dad pay for her car, insurance, co-sign for apartments, give her a monthly "allowance," AND pay nearly half of her tuition! She barely scrapes by with Cs! To her, college is more about "fun & games" than the responsibility of getting an education. She doesn't have to WORK to earn it, she is just handed everything (she does also work part-time, but that's more for her "fun money"). She is also getting student loans...

How did your daughter do in high school (yes, it's a huge difference, but if academics weren't important to her then, they still may not be now)? Did she *want* to go to college, or was it just *expected* of her? College isn't for everyone, and as a parent, that would be a hard realization to come to. But, I do think if she has tried using the various supports at school, and things just aren't getting better, it might be best to take a step back and re-assess. Is it the school? Is it the major? Is there another influence bringing her down? Has she been held accountable for important decisions in the past? Does she have a stake in her education (money, motivation, goals)?

Okay, I'll step off my soapbox now... I don't know if any of that was helpful, but it is a very sore subject for me. I know it's easy to get emotional about your kid(s), but for this one, I think taking a step back and figuring out the ROOT of the problem would be the best way to come up with a solid plan for the future. Good luck mama!

Dave Ramsey talks about college and kids and money. He says as parents we should not be paying for our kids to go away to school to get "the college experience" - which is really nothing more than partying. His suggestion is that we pay a part of commuting college at least for the first year or two. College is supposed to be a place to become educated in a field of choice to prepare for life. For many kids the "college experience" is really an opportunity to enjoy all the priviledges of adulthood with none of the responsibilities. They have freedom with no cost. Meals with no preparation or clean-up. Classes take up between 15-20 hours a week. That's the minimum requirement. To study for tests & prepare & write papers a college student could probably squeak by with C's doing another 10 hours of work a week. So at the very minimum you're asking for 25 to 30 hours of class or work to do.

It gets worse when kids get to junior or senior level and mom & dad get an apartment & furniture then fill up the cabinets and fridge. We don't want our kids to be uncomfortable when that's exactly what they need to be.

They've got to have some skin in the game. They have to experience the consequences of their actions (or inaction!) I don't have the perfect answer. My oldest is 17 - maybe I'll know what to do in 4 years....

Close the Bank of Mom&Dad. Remove her from your phone plan and insurance if she's on them. It's time for her to grow up, get a job, and learn what happens to folks who waste opportunities.

All I know is that I am not financing 3 F's, a D and a withdrawal.

I would love her, support her emotionally and what-not - but I'd also make it clear that college is a privilege not a right. Time to get it together or move on to something else. Are there any suggestions that she wants from me? Is there a tutoring or counseling center at school?

Again, I'm not going to get angry or upset. It's her life and that means it is all up to her. Have faith that she will figure it out. It can't be more important to you than it is to her.

Good luck.

PS: If you are not paying then I would say my peace (i.e. - "don't take out loans for something you may not finish") and then let it go. Again, it's her life.

PPS: If she comes back home my expectation is that she is completely self-supporting and out of the house within whatever time period you and your husband agree is reasonable.

Same boat here! My dgtr excelled in HS and was admitted in a top tier university here in TX with a Biology major. Her first semester was a major struggle academically. So, she is changing majors into something that will actually be more globally applicable. She has learned from her struggles and she knows this next semester has her future riding on it! Our belief is you have to learn from your mistakes while paying the consequences for your bad decisions. I don't have a crystal ball to predict how this semester will turn out, but I know she has learned a lot about studying, seeking out tutorials and just plan keeping a healthy lifestyle. Good luck to you and your daughter!

Please don't label your daughter as a failure just yet. MANY kids blow the first semester and sometimes the first year because they are not ready emotionally and not mature enough to make the adult decisions they need to make when they move off to college. It does not mean auto failure in life.

For starters, the transition from HS to college is HUGE. Students are expected to keep up grades and go to class but they also are thrown in the middle of learning how to live with each other in a dorm room, some love the newfound freedom and blow the first year by rebelling from parents once they are "on their own".

The fact that she has done so poorly this first semester, does mean that she will have to work harder to redeem herself if she stays in college.

I've spoken with a lot of successful business people as well as Doctors and they say.... if a kid blows 1 semester or 1 yr, from then on they are playing catch up. We business owners look for students who maintain the transition with good grades along with learning how to live on campus, etc.

The part I would have an issue with would be the lying. You daughter should feel comfortable enough to communicate the good and bad with you. Be open minded and listen to her.

Find out what is going on for your daughter. She may be overwhelmed with the load she has and may not feel ready for college. If so, that is ok. Allow her to live at home and go to a community college to get on her feet and get things together..... then move on to senior college.

Her college career is not over because she blew her first semester. However, her work load will increase and she will have to focus on the bottom line if she does want to get ahead. Don't bail her out of this mess and make it easy for her, don't cut her off from communication with you, DO support her and guide her to make good decisions. If she gets kicked out due to grades,, that is her fault not yours and SHE needs to fix it. She can fix it by doing better this semester and proving to her admissions counselor that she has what it takes if she puts forth the effort. If she blows it.... then off to community college she goes and that will be a wake up call.

Forgive me if I'm repeating.

Kids need to be allowed to fail. How else do they learn? I know it's distressing, but protecting her will enable her. She must find her way and face the consequences of her actions / inactions at school.

Natural consequences: if you can't handle the responsibility, you shouldn't be there and certainly not on mom and dad's dime. Some kids are not college material and others just aren't ready. It's fine. They need to figure it out.

In the meantime, she gets a job and pays rent to live home. While she lives there, she still must adhere to house rules. Disrespect of you and the rules means she needs to look for her own place because that's what adults do: pay their way.

None of this needs to be presented in a callous way, mind you, just a matter-of-fact one. If she wants / needs academic help, by all means, help! But there cannot be an excuse for laziness, irresponsibility and mooching. Think of the end goal here, mama! We have enough citizens taking that road - we need more who contribute, pull their weight, and see the value of working hard.

Ask her what she is going to do about it. I went on notice freshman year and so did a lot of my friends. We also all got our acts together graduated and became productive adults.

I knew I did not want to be kicked out so I made the necessary changes - including an easier course load and a few more studious friends - so I could focus more on school work.

ETA: I did not switch schools, nor did my folks threaten me in any way. I like many kids, including yours had a hard time with the transition. Give her another semester to work out her issues. After all the school is right? Putting her on notice is saying - hey - you messed up, but instead of kicking you out we are giving you another chance.

What does your daughter say about it?

Good luck!

I'd just add don't dispair. A good friend in college was put on academic suspension for a semester and now is a multi multi milllionaire after building his own business (and graduating from our college). It's done now. Work on how to fix it going forward and while of course be strict etc with her, don't let her think there is no way out of this and failure is in her future. Another friend was kicked out of college, kicked around some, finally got it together and graduated from a good but not as good college and also is super successful professionally. I tell myself these stories but honestly you don't know how things are going to turn out... Still plenty of time and opportunities.

ETA: Everyone has a right to their opinion but I do hate when it's stated as fact that parents shouldn't pay for college. My college was paid for as it was for many many of my friends and we all did well in college and after. And we are very grateful we didn't have student loans. The kids I saw with issues were kids whose parents bought themselves all sorts of "toys" and stuff and then wouldn't help with college bc they "couldn't". I knew my parents sacrificed to save $ to send me and therefore it meant something to me. Sure - it may not work with some kids but it does with others.

She is an adult now and this is her failure to deal with. If you are paying for her school or supporting her then that needs to stop. I had a friend whose parents were paying for his school, but any time he did not make good grades then he had to pay for the next semester himself, and only if he then got better grades would they help pay again.

In the end it is her life, she will need to learn from her own mistakes and dig her way out.

Make sure you breath. Each child is different. So all of us out here saying kick her out, blah, blah, blah, we do not know your child.

Why was she failing? Was the work too hard?

Was she a good student up until now?

What was she not able to to do? Stay on the schedule? Was she able to at least get to class? Was she having trouble with roommates?

Was this college a good match for her? Too big?

What does she have to say about it?

Do you thinking partying, drinking, drugs could be a problem?

Sure the lying is terrible, but why didn't she feel like she could not tell you what was going on? Was she afraid you all would flip out? Was she afraid you all would just pull her out at that moment?

We have known a few students that realized they did not have good study habits and the needed skills. They were having a hard time keeping up. They went to get help on campus, but ended up calling their parents to tell them, they were not doing well. One of these families flew up and realized this young man was suffering from depression. They brought him home.

Another family the mom flew up and worked with her son to get organized and gave him some strategies and even went with him to admissions to give them a heads up. They worked as a team. He returned his second semester, but it was still just too much for him to keep up with.

This college also suggested he take a year off and get a full time job. A job that he had to get himself to. So this is that year. He has a job (he started as an unpaid intern, then applied for a job that opened up) and is loving it. He has to get up early to drive across town , he has to meet their goals. He is thinking about taking 1 or 2 classes here at a community college this summer, , but he loves working.. BUT he is still having to live at home. He only makes a little over minimum wage. His parents charge him a bit for rent, for the utilities, etc.. They are teaching him how to budget etc.

He still wants to go back to the college, but he realizes he just was not organized and not able to keep up with the schedules expected for full time college. To him it is too "Loosey Goosey" His mom had always kept him focused and on task, He is just not mature enough for that on his own yet. He is 20 and they are still working on this with him.. He is still living at home.

Age is a number, maturity is different for each person. We must acknowledge this. Please work with her, to make sure she is not depressed and is able to actually meet her responsibilities.

Even some of the best students still are not mature to really live on their own.. Help her with these skills.

She will now need to have an accomplishment. Help her put a resume together and send her out to llok for a job, or see if she can take a class or 2 at a small college close by. See if you can observe her up close to solve this. I am sure she is humiliated. You can be disappointed, but do not just give up on her.

Mature people would be able to be honest with each other without judgement. All of you need to work on this.

I am sending you strength.

I think you need to help her identify if this is a transition problem or if she needs the structure and support that living at home provides. Some kids just aren't ready for all that living away at school entails. Assuming she's only 18 it makes sense that she is possibly still too immature.

I'd have a heart to heart with her, the lying is a big deal as it points to her being in denial about the reality of her situation. You have to really not do anything to fail that many classes. Denial is an immature response to life's difficulties. Maybe a year at home in a local college would be a good idea. Getting her priorities straight and learning how to transition into adulthood can make all the difference. Lifetime success is not based on finishing college in exactly four years at a university. There are many paths to successful adulthood.

My daughter is back home this year going to community college after doing poorly at her private school and losing her grants and scholarships. She is now working and paying for own school as of January. She tried a couple of months of working and living on her own too before coming home and deciding to go to community college. (Knowing that she would have to start paying back her student loans was a bit of a motivator.)

Basically in December 2012 when I saw her grades weren't great I warned her that we would not help her with school if it did not turn around in the spring. She knew the consequences. Really all you can do is spell out the consequences for her and let her make her own decision.

Do I think she is doomed because she did so poorly? No. I think in the long run she will be fine, she will just have a bumpier path but it will be her own path. I will not enable her to live on someone else's dime and play around like I did to my parents. I ultimately snapped out of it, but would have a lot sooner if they had not been the sweet but enabling people that they are.

Good luck, it is not easy watching them throw away opportunity. Sometimes letting them learn the hard way is the best thing you can do for them though.

I don't know your daughter BUT I just wanted to give you a ray of hope. A dear friend of mine spent his entire first year of undergrad partying and being really stupid. He got a reality check when he had to start signing up for "real" classes his second year and he really started thinking about what he wanted to do with his life. He also got a very clear message from his parents that they wanted him on the Dean's List for year 2 or he was on his own. I have no idea if that would be appropriate for your daughter. My friend graduated with excellent grades courtesy of his last three years, went to law school, and became a very successful lawyer. So, not necessarily failure in her future, but definitely time to grow up. I would honestly suggest putting this semester behind you, setting out a plan for this semester, and sticking to it.
I paid for my undergard education, so while I definitely did my share of partying, there was no way I was wasting my money on failed classes. A friend and I literally sat down and figured out how much we paid for each class. We would encourage each other through Calculus (blech, seriously blech, I had to do 3 semesters of calc for my major, no way are your daughter's classes worse than that) by saying- well, we paid $367 for this seat for these two hours, so we may as well be here getting our money's worth! We would use the same logic to drag our butts to the professor's office hours when we needed help- we are paying $182 for her to be present at office hours, let's go make her teach us!

This is your child's life. You have your own and the two shall never meet. It is up to her to get it together. I work at a university and every semester we have a notice sent by the president to for students who are having a bit of trouble so that they can get help.

We had a work study student who decided to drop a class, music-clarinet-because "it was too hard". The grades reflect the efforts exerted. Many times this is the first time that a child is responsible for time management and they have no clues.

The hardest part of this thread is the fact that she lied. That means she broke the trust rule. She now has to earn that back to you and her father. She now has to prove that she can do what she said she can do and really do it well. Otherwise, I see cosmetology in her future. She might like that better. Perhaps later in life she will go back to school after standing on her feet for many long hours.

My husband told our son you either work with your brain or your back. Working with your brain is a lot easier than hurting your back and getting nowhere.

Remember, it is her life. Yes it hurts but it is her choice. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Save the money and put it into retirement or a vacation for you and hubby. Let the chips fall where they may if she does not pull her weight. Oh and when she does come back make a contract that she has x amount of time to stay and then has to leave and be on her own. No revolving doors. The only way would be if she were seriously ill and needed help.

the other S.

PS I want to finish my degree but I feel that at this time in life, it will not get me where I want to be. So I have chosen a different path and enjoy what I do in my spare time.

Needs to come home to a community college where she pays her own tuition until she gets the value of education.

Since she is in the middle of the semester and the classes were already paid for, I would let her finish this semester out and pray she could redeem her grades. If she can't, then next semester I would have her get a FT job and have her pay back the lost tuition money if you funded it. If she wants to go back to school, I would let her take a few classes at the community college while she continued to work.
She really blew it and the only way for her to learn from this experience is to make her take responsibility for her actions.

I did the same thing. I truly didn't know HOW to study and frankly was so glad to be free that I didn't until it was midterms and too late. I would tell her this is her chance to straighten up. If she does, you could get a fresh start at a new college next year and never mention she attended this college. Then she has a new start with no low grades to pull her gpa down.
If she still blows it, stop paying and let her get a job until she is ready.
I know people who go into debt even to keep a kid in college who clearly is not going to do the work. Please don't do that.

You have done a good job trying to support her growth and independence process, but it doesn't always run smoothly!

My first year of college I went out of state and barely hung on. During that year, I met the best guy and we decided to get married- I was 19 and he was 21. My parents were quite unhappy. They told me that if I got married, they would no longer pay for college because that would become me and my husband's responsibility. We did get married, and my parents didn't pay. I had to grow up really quickly and decide if college was important to me. I decided it was and transferred to a community college. We used lots of the money we received as wedding gifts to pay tuition! So I did get back on track and finished school, hubby too- and we're still married! :-)

The point is, I had to grow up fast and make my own decisions at that point. Your daughter will need to do the same. If she's open to it, it would be great for you to sit down with her and ask her about long term goals and what she needs to get there. Or perhaps schedule time with a career counselor (maybe the college has one?). No pressure of what she SHOULD do, just support of what SHE would like to do, and how that road will look. Thank goodness she has the cosmetology license, she has a great trade to fall back on.

Talk to her without judgment and with full support, but with enforced boundaries. She'll find her own way, I'm sure it's just really hard to watch her struggle- on your dime no less. Good luck!

Here's a tough question: Does she want to be in college full-time right now or does she want to avoid disappointing you?
If she wants to be in college full-time right now:
12 credits (4 classes) may be more manageable than 15 (5 classes)
Suggest a study skills and time management course (I took one in college and doubled my GPA).
Also have her take a hard look at friendships and dating relationships --even if she isn't partying excessively (by her standards), too much drama can distract her and drain her energy for assignments.
If she really just wants to avoid disappointing you, find out what she'd rather do than college full-time right now. Maybe she wants to take one community college course at time while working full-time in cosmetology. Perhaps she'd rather take a short, vocational training course in something other than cosmetology and then work for a couple years. Even an internship can be a useful way to spend a "gap year".
You are going to have to have a courageous conversation about this. If you can afford it, pick a weekend and a neutral space when you can make a plan for a multi-pronged approach to her future educational plan.
I suggest not making it all about the wasted money. And don't tell her that you thought she might fail.

If it was my child I would tell her if she does not pass this semester then you will not pay anymore. I work for a university and see that type of behavior all the time and it just makes me ill. I know how much they pay to be at the school and then they throw it away. It is for sure a waist. Hopefully she's gotten some out of her system and will do her work now.

Updated

If it was my child I would tell her if she does not pass this semester then you will not pay anymore. I work for a university and see that type of behavior all the time and it just makes me ill. I know how much they pay to be at the school and then they throw it away. It is for sure a waist. Hopefully she's gotten some out of her system and will do her work now.

Is it that she isn't mature enough to manage her time, get to her classes & do the work or is it that she's trying really hard and just can't stay on top of things? My vote would be to take her out of her current college and have her try community college near home. She may just not be ready to live away from home.

Quick story about my nephew who happens to be very very intelligent (book smart, that is). He found that partying was way more fun than getting up and going to class. He neglected to tell my sister and brother in law that he was failing big-time. He owes over $130K in college loans and he doesn't have a degree yet. He's working full time and back in community college and doing better. He had been in an engineering program and decided half way through that he wanted to be a phys-ed teacher but he felt he couldn't tell his parents because they had made it pretty clear that they expected him to be an engineer. Not a lot of communication going on in that house. So now everyone is unhappy and there's a lot of unnecessary debt hanging over his head.

WAIT ONE MINUTE!!! Your daughter does NOT have a future of failure!!! I am sorry if this comes across rudely but seriously?! HS to College is a HUGE Change and College is not right for everyone immediately out of HS and not even right for everyone. You & your husband need to step back and let her know that you are supportive if she wants to take a semester or two off to live in the real world (she would have to work though) and see what she really wants to do. Do NOT use the word disappointed with her because that will only add negative stress to her and that is not needed right now.Does she really want to be in College or was it your dream or something that is just expected?

You need to take the responsibility for your own feelings and not put them on to her. Yes it is sad she didn't feel like she could come and talk to you - ask her why she didn't and REALLY LISTEN to her.

I will be honest for me it was expected/assumed we would go to college but it wasn't the right place for me when I graduated HS and after 3 semesters I was burnt out and left to go to work. Honestly it was the best decision I ever made and I don't regret it at all, thankfully my parents were supportive and cared more about me finding my way and not being disappointed/upset that I didn't finish college at that time - they understood it wasn't for me.

Kids that have a pretty strict or managed childhood do this when they get a taste of freedom. They eat junk food all day, they stay up all night and sleep all day, and they go out with their friends and drink and have random sex and they flunk out of college.

This does not mean they are not college material, it simply means they need some time to go out and experience life and learn to make decisions and they have to live with those consequences.

It's time for you to step away from her education and allow her to be responsible for it. Stop paying for it. Stop trying to control it and trying to motivate her. You're not using the right currency for her, and she's clearly not ready to even want to do this. She has to want it for herself, not to please you. You can't motivate her to do it in order to keep your money from flying out the window in a grande waste. Guilting her won't work. I saw this in my house growing up with one of my brothers from first grade all the way through his very, very short college career. He had to choose his own path. She's not happy with the one you laid out for her.

And when you see nothing but failure, believe me that's coming across to her loud and clear with the way you treat her and speak to her. That won't motivate her at all, but it WILL push her away. I guarantee it.

I suggest that maybe you change the conversation and your language. Remove "failing" and "failure" from your vocabulary. Remove "you're costing me money that I don't have" from the conversation. Remove "look at all I've done for you/all the space and room to grow I've given you/everything I did to set you up to succeed" language from the conversation. Remove "I'm so disappointed that..."

Instead...

"Hey, honey, why don't you tell me how you're feeling?"

"What do you picture yourself doing in five years?"

"What's your dream job?"

"Would you be willing to brainstorm some ideas on how to make some money in the short term so that when you decide what you'd like to do, you can put that money away to support yourself in the future?"

"Would you like some help learning how to budget?"

"What would you like to talk about?"

"I'm here to listen. What's up?"

Spend more time listening. She's not doing any of this TO YOU. She's trying to experience freedom and also figure herself out. She can't learn responsibility unless you allow her to mess up and also learn how to fix it on her own. See what she comes up with for solutions. Let her know that "no college/no schooling" is an option that she gets to choose as an adult. Let her know she can take time off in order to decide what she wants to do whether it be go to school when she figures out what she wants, or if she wants to try to jump head first into a career that doesn't require schooling. She needs to figure out through applying for the dream jobs she wants and getting rejected after interviews that she won't get anywhere without an education. Let her experience that.