I Have a Crazy Mother.

My mom was bi polar and when I noticed her trying to mess with my kids heads she was not allowed to see them, at all. It lasted about a year before she at least accepted to keep her mouth shut. I did nothing wise or profound it is just her narcissism couldn't allow me to have this control over her so she chose to act like she accepted the terms so she could tell her friends she did this or that with her kids that love her soooo much.

I loved my mom, she loved us in her way. Still it was impossible to ever be around her without all of us being miserable. My line was effing with my kids, the rest I just tried my best to ignore.

I like Jennifer T's answer. This just isn't a good situation and it needs to be avoided for everyone's sake. So sorry.

i agree, she's pretty nuts. i'm sorry you grew up in that environment, and kudos to you for doing the work to make sure that your family and your kids aren't repeating the pattern.

i'd start with better boundaries. it's nice that you let her visit, but stop letting her stay in your home. find her a nice B&B nearby, even chip in to pay for it if she's strapped, but don't let your home and hearth be invaded by people who aren't appreciative of it.

do the same when you go visit her. DO visit her. but stay somewhere neutral.

i love that you empowered your daughter, your lovely articulate daughter, to handle the situation herself. do remember that she's only 7, and crazy people are a little out of her bailiwick. when it gets to the point that you're sitting in other room 'livid' and your mother is abusing your kid emotionally, it's time to step in and say calmly 'that's enough, mother. no one speaks to my children like that in their own home.' in addition to the good stuff you've clearly demonstrated for your daughter (i'm SO impressed with her), show her that in addition to trusting her, you've got her back when she's in deep water with crazy people.

you're not going to change her. so just change the ground rules. better boundaries.
khairete
S.

If she wasn't your mother, is this a person you'd invite to stay in your home? Someone you'd want to spend time with and talk to? Allow them unsupervised access to your kids even after they've proven to be mean and manipulative?

Probably not. You're assigning motives and emotions based on your connection. Relatives are people we're linked to biologically or legally. Kids don't get to choose their circumstances, but in adulthood your true family is made up of the people who you choose to surround yourself with, because of mutual affection and respect for one another.

You can't change her and you'll never have a healthy relationship. Your husband doesn't like her and your kids are afraid of her. You have all the power, but you're not using it. That is what needs to change. You need to realize that you are your mother's equal and her peer, so that you can handle her as you would any other adult who was causing problems in your life. Go forward as the woman you are, not the child you were.

Ooooh, sorry about this, and I'm so happy you've broken the cycle and become a good person!

My mom is crazy in a different way. She married into a fundamentalist Christian community in the south 20 years ago, and has since gone full-on Tea Party with her politics. Which is fine, and her right, but not a visit or letter passes when she doesn't tell me she prays for my salvation because I'm going to hell and she fears for my kids with no proper guidance surrounded by evil (democrats, liberals, artists, and gay friends and you name the offenses). She always was a little too Christian for me once I hit teen years, and later she always criticized my job in NYC as a fashion designer because it was a superficial, greedy profession. OK true, but I worked hard and completely supported myself and got no praise ever. And now she's even way more judgmental since I'm a divorced single mom. Tells me I shouldn't wear make-up or fitted clothes at age 45...she wants me to look and act like that clerk who denies gay marriages...

ANYWAY. I visit her in small doses. Why? Because she is a SPLENDID grandmother. She bakes with the kids, knits things for them, reads them wholesome bible stories, takes them to pick berries and apples, her husband teaches them to grow vegetables and ride tractors and shoot beebee guns. It's like going to the set of Little House on the Prairie when we visit her, and it's a great experience for the kids because they feel very loved and are exposed to positive new things I don't expose them to, and a different outlook on life. Also the kids southern cousins are very respectful, well-behaved, outdoorsy, adventurous, and hard-working. So we go visit. The kids have a blast, and I keep myself scarce.

If my mom wasn't so great with the kids, I'd stay away from her way more.

On the other hand, my ex's parents are a different kind of bad. I don't associate with them, but I let the kids go with my ex to visit them. If they get older and start not liking to visit them, they will not have to.

If your mom is not being kind, and even your husband and daughter hate it, you should not feel guilty to way way way minimize or even cease contact. Sorry this is your situation. You don't HAVE to respect people who don't deserve it. Keeping toxic people away is a hugely valuable survival skill.

I have a narcissistic mother. She's improved slightly, and she lives 1000 miles away so it's not really a problem. But I understand where you're coming from. Family is NOT about blood - it's about love and respect. You CAN cut ties with toxic family - even parents. I did it for a while. Distance made it easier, but I stopped calls also.

To answer your last question first - you handle being around them by NOT being around them as much as possible.

Do you invite her or does she show up? If you invite her, STOP. You're inviting the stress and you don't have to. If she just shows up, tell her that she's not welcome if she doesn't contact you first. You have a family and surprise visits from ANYONE are NOT OK.

She's not necessarily "crazy", but she certainly is a manipulative narcissist. You have permission to cut ties as far as you feel you need to. And you should maybe get therapy to help you deal.

Love Jennifer's advice.

I think I will follow that. My MIL sounds like your mother. We don't know if she's got Borderline or is Bi Polar - but she's not healthy (emotionally) and is all over the place. Rather than try to work around it and figure out what we've done, I like the idea of putting it back on her. Mine comes and complains. So if we say "You didn't seem to enjoy Boxing Day last year mom, so we'll just plan another time" maybe that's how we can get out of it.

My husband has been limiting contact more an more over the years. We had marriage counselling on how to deal with MIL. We set boundaries, he enforces them, I support him, and he deals with her. So he visits her on his own. That works for us. The rest of us see her a couple of times a year. She is not interested in grandsons. Just granddaughters.

We changed it so our holidays were about our family only as she was ruining them. So we don't see her on Christmas, but the day after. But she just held it all in then complained about how sad we'd made her. My husband let her go for 10 minutes. I took the kids out of the room. I turned to my husband and said "if she doesn't stop now, me and the kids are going". It's hard if it's your own parent, I get that. But you can say you won't tolerate negative comments. You can say "If you're going to be like this, we can't have you here. If you're going to be negative about the kids, we won't allow you to visit".

It's harsh, but those are boundaries. But I like the "you're not happy visiting ... so let's take a break" way of thinking. Will try that. I don't want a repeat of Boxing day this year.

Good luck and keep us posted. I have a feeling a lot of us go through this.

Why do you allow her around your kids at all?

My mom's mom was HORRIBLE and when I was old enough to make the decision, I stopped spending time with her. She was OKAY to us kids until she met her third husband...he ruined anything good left. She was truly a horrible, horrible person and I am not sad she has passed. I went to her death bed, held her hand, and gave her my forgiveness for how she treated everyone I loved. It freed me from holding on to it.

You should no longer allow her in your life or your kids. It's not worth the long-term damage.

Your Mom isn't interested in family visits when she comes - she wants to be on vacation.
Hotels are a wonderful thing.
Have your Mom stay in one when ever she visits.
The lobby will have coffee around the clock and she can come and go as she pleases.
Only get together with her for lunch or dinner (only a few hours per day).
No unsupervised kid trips with Grandma - I'd be livid if my kids hair was cut without my permission.
Maybe seeing her 4 times per year is too much.
Cut it down to once or twice.

There are websites and books out there to help you deal with this behavior.
My mom loved to tell everyone including my kids I was a terrible mother,, etc. ..etc. .. etc. She never understood my job as parent would have been so much easier if she had let me be the mother.
MY MIL was an evil crazy woman. She corrected everything I did. and my ex-husband thought the sun rose and set on his mother's head so she HAD to right... and he wonders why I divorced him.

All I can say is it's your house and your kids, you and hubby need to band together and set up rules for your mom. Have her stay at a hotel if she visits and keep the visits to one or two a year. You can tell her 'these are our kids and WE decide .... not you.

Don't invite her to come visit anymore and if she asks tell her no, its not a good time for us. Instead call her every couple weeks and put your phone on speaker and let her talk while answering with a humm, wow, ok, really, etc every once in a while. Don't really listen to what she's saying. and after 5-10 minutes say oops sorry mom I have to go. TTYL.

Her behavior won't change and your children shouldn't be subjected to her in their home. If she wasn't your mom you wouldn't allow her near your kids. Don't feel bad. You have your own family to think about and they come first.

I don't have great advice. I had to go no-contact with my own mother. My guess is that, from what you have described, mom may be mentally ill. Yeah, call it crazy (I call my own mom nuts; she has untreated borderline personality disorder and other issues), it's okay. It's the *sane* thing to call it.

It was great that you allowed your daughter to speak her piece, and fair enough. Here's the thing-- you have to decide what is the benefit of having her there to visit. Or not. For me
my life is about 1000% (I know, numerically impossible!) better, more peaceful. I had to do a lot of work on myself, no doubt about it, but not having to deal with the crazymaking has been so freeing. So, you can keep inviting her, knowing that she's going to do what she's going to do, or you can decide not to invite her, meet her in her neck of the woods for coffee when it works for you, and either way-- expect nothing, or expect the bad behavior. Some people do low-contact very, very well with mentally ill parents/family members. There are great resources/boards for people dealing with family members with BPD (borderline), bipolar disorder and profound narcissism; I would encourage you to access those resources. Those participants can offer good support and lots of good advice because they've been there. Good luck.

okay - I think I have more questions than answers...

HOW are the trips to your house set up? Does she ask to come or do you ask her or does she just show up?

DO you tell your mother NO?

With your son's surgery - did she ASK to come out and help or did YOU ask her to come out and help??

When the visits are set up, do you set expectations?? For example, my dad came out over the summer in his motor home. He expected to take off with my boys for about a week and go to New England. We discussed this BEFORE he came. He has expectations of where he wanted to go as a family (Gettysburg, Philadelphia, etc.) He knew my husband didn't have the time off to go during the week. Expectations were set. He and my sister came in November - no expectations but to visit - they found an AWESOME deal from San Diego to Dulles for $300 TOTAL for BOTH of them - how great is that??!! Any way - we celebrated Thanksgiving on Veterans day. It worked for us!!

You NEED to set boundaries and expectations. If you can't do that? I would suggest you "visit" with your mom over Facetime (if you have iPhones) or Skype. Then you can hang up with you are done.

When she starts playing the victim? Call her on it. If you can't do that? Change the subject or say you need to go. And go. Don't allow her to play the games.

Good luck!

Gosh mom, that sounds wonderful but we're going to be gone away that week.

Sorry mom, we are already having company that week.

That would be wonderful mom but we're planning on coming to see you that week. No thanks, we already have a hotel booked.

Sorry mom I don't like how you treat me or my family and I don't really want to spend time with you.

When she comes to visit you at your own home -- how is that arranged? Do you ask her to come (as in, "Mom, how about the 25th through the 27th" or whatever) or does she initiate it every time (as in, "I'm coming next Tuesday" without any previous inquiry as to whether that works for you, etc.)? Which is it, or is it a combination of the two? It's hard to tell from the post just how she ends up in your home. Maybe there's an unspoken understanding that she comes on, say, Thanksgiving and at a particular weekend around some other family event like a birthday--??

I ask because she should not be in your house unless you have specifically invited her. So if she's just turning up unannounced -- no. If she's not doing that, but does call and say "I'm coming from Day X to Day Y" and that's the first you've heard of it -- also no. If you are inviting her -- stop, period.

Go see HER for no more than a day and a night at a time and without your kids, IF you feel that you want to maintain some level of contact with her. Your husband will have to care for the kids for whatever time you see your mom. Maybe there's a halfway point between your town and hers where you can rendezvous by car; you drive 90 minutes toward her, she drives 90 minutes toward you, you meet in a central town for lunch -- and yeah, maybe you even shop with her --and then you both go to your respective homes.

No more four-day stays in your house as you describe. No more of her sleeping on your beds (and complaining). I'd probably end up saying that we were renovating (which is true)and put her into a hotel if she came at all. But I'd stop having her come.

You don't have to do a big, formal announcement that she's no longer welcome. Just start suggesting the meet-in-the-middle if that's a doable thing (we do it with friends who live over three hours away and it works beautifully for everyone to do day trips). Or stop inviting her, and if she says "I'm coming" -- tell her firmly that "That's not a good time for us. We can't host at that time." Over and over. She will get in a snit, but if you can stay calm -- she will feed off anger or a confrontation and will lay all blame on you, say you want to keep her from her grandkids, etc. -- you can see less of her.

I do think she sounds a lot like someone I know with bipolar disorder, on some levels; excessive spending and shopping sprees can be signs of manic states. (My friend lost a job over her extreme spending with a company credit card; she's not a bad person, she's sick, and finally getting help.) But I would not try to convince your mom that she should get evaluated, at least not at this time; she won't see the point and will turn it all on you.

One thing -- you sound disappointed that she isn't helping with the kids, ever. That means you have an expectation that you want her to do that. If you can let that go forever, that would help you reduce your stress. She isn't going to do that. In fact if you asked her, she likely would say that she interacts a lot with her grandkids, is close to them, they adore her, etc. She doesn't see things like a normal person does. You can't cut through that even with a confrontation, so don't try.

I guess the bottom line for me is that her visits make you upset and upset your kids too (poor daughter, she did not need to hear what she heard from grandma!) so the visits stop. Let them peter out. Don't invite her, if she invites herself, be too busy, and start suggesting ways to meet her on your own. You won't have the kids there as buffers if you do that and will get full-on mom but for very short times.

I would stay in some kind of touch but start being very busy.

I don't have crazy parents, thank goodness! Unfortunately, I do have a crazy cousin. I just recently learned of an organization called Families Anonymous, and will be attending my first meeting this week. I don't know much about them, but maybe you could check them out?

I gotta ask you why you let her come over? There's no benefit to it. It hurts your daughter. She feels like she can treat you all this way because you let her come.

Don't put up with it anymore. She will never change if you don't give her real consequences.