Help with 4 Year Old and Discipline

If you stay calm and enforce firm discipline immediately after one warning when he begins screaming or acting out he won't do it. Time outs aren't firm enough for him. Allowing him to freak out in his room won't teach him self control. H'es too young to care about losing toys and desserts-my five year old wouldn't respond to that either. Sprited kids don't quit tantrums just because they don't get what they want. They also need a consequence for the tantrum so they don't keep doing it. Simply not getting their way sort of amounts to being ignored which is a total void of consequence and is therefore basically approval of the behavior or permission to do it until they decide they're tired of it. Which could be age 8 for some kids. Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson is great for this age. I have three non-tatnrummers including one born with a super angry personality.

Don't yell. You're conditioning him to not pay attention until you yell. You want him to know he needs to respond to a calm direction or else.

As far as the meal, that's easy. If he says he's done and full, then let him be excused. BUT under no circumstances does he get ANYTHING to eat after that. He will go to bed hungry. Bet one or two nights of that, and this little hiccup will be nipped in the bud.

I think that when you put him in his room for quiet time, it's not a "consequence" in his mind because he is allowed to play and have fun. If you want it to be a "consequence" you have to take the entertainment option out of the equation.

When he's sent to his room, he should be either sitting on the bed or in a chair doing absolutely NOTHING but thinking about why he's been put in his room and how he can avoid that again. Then, before he comes out, you should go in and have him tell you why he's in his room and apologize to you, his sister, grandparents, etc.

You are right - he is testing to find out where the boundaries are. You need to be sure they are clear and unwavering.

There is always one in the bunch who is a power house and knows it.

You seem like you are doing all the right things, but for the wrong personality. These tactics are perfect for children like your oldest. But other tactics work for his personality.

You need to develop a good gift to ignore. Literally! This will only work if he is not getting into harmful things. If he is doing that as well, ignoring him sometimes and not when he does those things, will result in him only doing those things to get your attention. So be aware of that.

When he screams and cries, ask him what he needs. If he is crying just to cry. Tell him to take sometime to work it out, and walk away. When he calms, ask him if he is feeling better. When he stops engage. He will learn to use words, they get him more.

When he is disrespectful, to anyone. Everyone should learn to say, " I do not like it when you speak to me that way, or do that to me. I will not speak to you when you are like this. " And ignore him. He will learn that his behavior will cause him to loose interaction. And when he is nice, people like to be around him more.

Dinner. There is a set time for dinner. He does not get to choose. So when he takes two bites, and says he is full you ask him to take one more good bite. If he refuses, let him know that there is no snack after dinner, and that if he is not really full, he should finish with the family. If he refuses. Let him up, clear his plate. When he says he is starving and needs a snack, remind him of dinner. He is not starving, you know that. And what he is doing is eating enough to let him off the hook to sit and eat something, that is not going to be as good as the gram crackers he will get later when he claims he is dying. You feed him three times a day plus snacks, he eats well. Trust me, he will do this for three to four consecutive dinners, and then he will learn that it is dinner, or rumble tummy. (Kids who don't eat dinner NEVER get dessert.) Make his favorite on the nights he chooses two bites for dinner.

He is stubborn. So you will be dealing with this until it breaks and he sees that he will not win. But he will replace dinner battles with another one, because he will decide that there isn't a great pay off to not finishing his meal. So you keep at it. Do not stop for anything. If it takes a month to break bad behavior, you can not stop. If you give him time out, and he does it again tomorrow, give him time out tomorrow, and the next day. You are not kidding, you do not tolerate this behavior.

There is no set amount of time that discipline works. Sometimes it is much longer for children to realize hey, this isn't worth it. But if you stop because you have been doing it for a week and nothing has changed you have taught him, that patience is a virtue. And kids with his personality are realllllly patient. I know you have seen that. So stick to your guns, and don't give him his way unless he earns it.

Good luck.

My DD is 4 and several friends who have 4 and 5 yr olds have started a study on How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so They Will Talk. Tips I have used include:

Make a list. I had DD help me with the morning list and if she fusses or dawdles, I review the list.

Use one word. Instead of saying "Son, eat your dinner. It's good for you." You can say, "Son. Eat."

Do you ever tell him why? Some kids respond to knowing details. "It is rude to interrupt people when they are talking. It makes them angry. Wait your turn." Or "If you leave the milk out, it will spoil and we won't have any."

I also try to give her feelings a name. Instead of screaming or saying "my tummy hurts" every time she doesn't get her way, I tell DD to tell me how she feels. Is she angry? Sad? Disappointed? Frustrated? "Are you sad that you have to leave the park/can't have a cookie/have to turn off the tv?" Followed by something like, "I can understand how that is upsetting but it is time to go and I cannot allow you to watch more TV." or "I understand that you are angry with your brother, but hands are not for hitting. Use your words."

Every kid is different. Find what works for each one and remember that change can be slow. My DD had a meltdown at Sunday School because she wasn't feeling well (how embarrassing, right?) but when I finally got out of her what she was upset about she said, on her own, "Mommy, I'm sorry I didn't use my words."

Try preemptive strikes. You can't deal with a child throwing a tantrum while he's throwing a trantrum.

For meal, you eat ahead of time. Before dinner in another room, explain to him its dinner and tell him how you expect him to behave. Make it simple - stay in your seat, no yelling, if he gets up, dinner is over for him, and if he doesn't finish dinner then no snack. Since you ate before, monitoring him and reminding him how to act won't be such a chore. Give it a week before elevating consequences/punishments. Make sure to have a plate of a little food in front of you so he won't think mealtime is another displine project - you want him to see that life in your home goes on whether he behaves or not.

When my son threw a fit about anything, I just calmly continued doing what I was doing - doing housework, reading a book or whatever - and let him see what I just said about life not stopping just because he got mad. If I had to I'd put on my headphones to tune him out. It was only when he calmed down that I could explain to him why he didn't get his own way and we talked about ways he was allowed to express his anger or disappointment.

Independence doesn't mean let him react however he wants and then begging him to change his ways. Independence can be showing him his choices how to respond to things and allow him to chose.

For the meal issue, if my kids say they are done eating the meal and haven't eaten a reasonable amount, then I tell them I will save it for later and if they are hungry, then they can have it later. I put it in the fridge and if they ask for a snack, I pull it out. Usually, they end up changing their mind about the snack. The worst thing that will happen is that they will wake up a little hungrier for breakfast (in which case they just eat better).

I haven't had the same issues you describe, but we've had some anger management issues lately with one of my 4 year olds (resulting in hitting). We started with taking away the toys we thought led to the hitting and did timeouts. If he acted out during timeout, he got extra timeouts. Then we have a talk afterwards and try to work on anger management (in terms he can understand). Taking the toys away for just the day didn't work though. We've had better luck if we take them away for multiple days until he can show that he can make it through 2-3 days without hitting. And we had to be very consistent with the timeouts. Initially, he would get up to 3 timeouts in a row either by acting out during timeout or doing even more hitting on the way to time out. Now, we can typically get him to behave for the first time out.

I also bought some books for the kids on various behavior skills that are important. The one I got for my situation is Hands Are Not For Hitting plus some others in the same series (listen and learn, etc). I read them during other times of the day, not when he is acting out so he may digest them better.

Then we got a reward chart. We put other skills or chores on it, including not hitting. Some were easy and some were ones we wanted to work on. For the first week, we set it up for success so the kids could see the benefit. They didn't need a lot of stars (like 50-60% of the total), but they had to have at least one star in each category. After that we bumped it up so that they had to have more total stars and 2 stars in each category, and then 3 in each category. We are starting the 4th week and have seem some good progress in the not hitting department. It's definitely not an instant fix, but it's definitely been helpful. Plus now we can say, "If you do (or don't do) X, you won't get your star today." It makes it a little less about us telling them what to do and more about them earning their stars and reward. I've even had one make a conscious decision to not get his star because he didn't want to eat his vegetables.

The only tough thing about the star chart we have is that some skills/chores are all day things. For example, brushing their teeth is twice a day but there is only space for one star, so they don't get the star until the end of the day and they have to brush their teeth both in the morning and evening to get it. But if you did your own chart with stickers, you could do the stars for each time if you wanted.

Whatever you try, you will likely not see overnight success. As long as you are consistent though, your son will see that each time he tests you, he gets the same result. Even with our reward chart, my kids will still get timeouts for hitting. And if they can still lose their toys if that is the source of the hitting.

Hi J.!

I want to reassure you that you're doing great! It sounds like you're doing all the right things to get his attention. Has he only been doing this lately or has this been going on since 2 and 3? If it's just recently, he might be testing your parental authority. It is natural for children to test their parents to make sure they are still in charge because it is their comfort and security.

When he screams at the table, maybe try this approach: You: " Oh no, it sounds like you're having a tantrum again. Tantrums have to stay in their room until you're ready to be 'happy boy' again." So sad for you!"

You put the responsibility back on him while you are relaxed and not angry at him. Let him see that you're not going to get upset at his behavior, but he cannot hang out like everyone else until his decides to change. Meanwhile, you are calm and assertive when talking with him so he sees it's not going to affect you either way. His bad choices take him away to his room. His good choices can bring him back to the kitchen. I hope this makes sense to you.

I hope it works out!

A.

I think this has turned into a power struggle, which is something you never want to get into with a child.
As much as you can, redirect and ignore, and above all else, stay calm.
He screams or cries when he doesn't get his way?
Calmly send him to his room and let him know he can come out after he calms down. Don't go in there and try to reason with him, just go about your business.
He doesn't want to eat his dinner? Fine, again send him into his room (not outside or to the TV) and continue eating dinner without him. Chances are he will want to come back and be with the family, and if not just wrap up his plate. If he's hungry later you can heat it up and he can eat alone at the table. Again, I doubt he will like eating alone, and therefore he learns that his actions have consequences.
It takes time, and for some kids it takes longer than others, but he WILL learn that negative behavior won't work because you don't reward it with a reaction. Be consistent, stay calm and don't engage him in arguing or being emotional.

My son is also 4, and has gone through a little of what your son does. For the meals, I save his meal and that is what he has if he says he is hungry later. I tell him before he leaves the table that he can't have anything else unless he eats his dinner, and normally he will work on doing it then (we have been doing this for a while, so he knows we mean business). Keep up at not giving in, it really does work, even if it takes a couple of months. He will get the idea at some point, as long as you stick with it reliably. Since he is doing the same thing every day, can you maybe change up the situation. If he always has a hard time switching between tasks, work on that, or give him choices before he freaks out that will help to avoid the meltdown. I also have found that walking away helps a lot, don't feed into it, you said no, move on and ignore him.

My daughter was pretty well behaved, and always good out in public but when she had tantrums they'd last an hour and she'd lay on the hall floor screaming. My mom would get soooo upset. My son, on the other hand would have a tantrum anywhere - but it would last 2 minutes at the longest - then he's be over it and move on.

Kids are so different! But my son was always the climber, on the precipice of danger all day long, didn't listen, I'd get this blank stare and he'd keep doing what he was doing. He'd have me in tears on a regular basis I wondered what i was doing wrong? why would he walk away when I was tell him he could do something, why didn't he listen? Ends up my son has a language based learning disability (He is super smart and doing just fine in school - so don't get yourself in a tizzy) He could do all kinds of mathematical work in his head at age 4, and could put together a super complex Lego project way before the ages on the boxes - but when it came to the spoken or written word his brain just didn't work like everyone elses. He heard sounds inaccurately, he mis-pronouced even the simplest words ("reanee" instead of really, Hom not ham, liver room instead of living room, etc.) It's not uncommon among boys. When your son gets to grade school pushing for testing sooner rather than later. My son had early intervention in speech and reading and still gets some help in English - but with the help he gets high 80's in English.

He probably also has trouble attending (attention issues) and although they never liked to diagnose kids with ADHD earlier than school age they now have a computer test that judges reaction times, whether they can wait to hear the whole question or not, and answer giving sufficient time, etc. It's a highly accurate judge of your child's attention skills based on his age. My son was off the charts for ADHD (answered every question before he heard the full sentences) and once propoerly diagnosed he began to blossom. Now at age 13 his average is in the high 80s all the time, he'll be taking some engineering classes in high school and he's a funny kid.

This too shall pass - but finding a way to discipline a kid like this is tough. Nothing sticks. Eventually he'll have a favoritei toy (Ipod, video game of some type) that you can use as a tool to effect change - but until then you just have to find that one thing he wants more than anything else and withhold it for discipline. You bineg upset won't phase him like it might for your daughter - for kids like this it's all about "what's in int for me".... He'll probably be a great entrepenuer one day - that's what it takes.

good luck mama!

Have you looked at diet? Some kids really need to be fueled with healthy food regularly throughout the day or they go nuts because of their sugar levels. More protein. Reduce junk. Eliminate sugar. Can't hurt.

We also have a strong-willed daughter. Once she hit her teen years, we started to see the positive side of her strong will. She set her goals high and achieved almost all of them.

The important thing is to shape his will without crushing his spirit. He wants to run the house and when he doesn't get his way, it is extremely frustrating to him. Do not compare him to his sister. Never let him hear that. Instead, give him some control. Do you want to stay in the room with us or do you want to go play in your room for a while? Do you want to pick up your toys first or bring me your dirty clothes first? Before you have made the final decision, ask him if he thinks you should have spaghetti tonight for dinner or chicken. Let him get down from the table if he is "full," but tell him he will not get food again until breakfast. Be firm and do not give in. Kids will not starve themselves but he will test you. He has a very strong will. It will take longer to get things done but have him participate in making dinner or baking something for dessert. Let him help with the menu before you head to the store. Whatever works for your family. He needs to find good ways to assert his will.

When he screams, send him to his room or somewhere until he is ready to use his inside voice. Like you are doing, never give in because he will remember that you gave in once and he will keep doing whatever he can to get that again, even if it means he has to try harder and longer. Never let him think there is a possibility.

Catch him being respectful. Brag to your parents or your husband about something nice that he said or did. Tell him you just love how grown up he is becoming, etc.

Find ways to reward good behavior. He may have gotten out of the habit of doing good stuff. He may have just resorted to the fact that the punishment isn't that bad and it won't last that long.

NEVER yell at him. He has learned that he doesn't have to listen until you get to the screaming stage. He has programmed you. This takes practice to become calm but both my husband and I (who both came from a loud home) were able to do it fairly consistently. Stay very calm. Remind each other with a signal if you see each other getting loud. If you feel the temperature rising inside you, step away, put on some music, or whatever you need to do to switch gears. The calmer and quieter you are, the better you will feel. You will get recharged by the feeling of control. Smile a lot. Say calmly, "I'm sorry you chose to misbehave. You will not get to watch TV with us for ___ minutes. If you can calm down in your room, you will be able to join us again in ___ minutes." Then when he calms down, tell him you want him to tell you what he did and apologize.

We had to remind our daughter a lot that there was nothing she could do to make us love her less when she apologized. We told her we know it's hard for her to hear the word "no" but we didn't want her to become like Veruca Salt in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. (I want it nooooowwwww!) Rent or download the old version if you do not have it.