Bedtime Problems with 3 1/2 Yr Old

We have had the same trouble, now we have a bedtime chart that she uses, with the fun stuff at the end, like a story. We use a timer (20 minutes) If at the end of the time she's not done, then she can do the rest of the stuff by herself, because, let's face it, she can change her clothes by herself. If she gets out of bed, we take things away each time.

From here it looks simple. You cave too easily. Your son knows this, so he is using it to his full advantage. If Daddy can do it, but you can't, then there's your answer. Put him down and be done with it. Yes, he will scream and cry, or whatever, but you absolutely MUST put him down, say goodnight, and mean it. Once you close that door, your job is done. He needs to learn to calm himself and go to sleep. You're not doing him any favors by catering to his whims, which is what you're doing.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but get it done and you will all be happier - including him! Kids need boundaries. He's just begging for you to say no.

If one of my kids threw a drink at me, I would pick that kid up and march him to his room, put him in, and close the door. Period.

I do think the new baby has something to do with it, but since he's been doing this all along, not much. It's you.

-- W. B.

Hi P.,

What worked with my boys was to have a set bedtime routine and then not to deviate from it. Admitedly I didn't try to keep them in bed but I did keep them in their rooms with a gate. We took the gate down when we went to bed. My suggestion would be to sit down as a family and have your son help decide what the bedtime routine is. (jammies first or last? stories before or after teeth brushing) and then for everyone to stick to that routine. At the time of the discussion you also outline the consequences for non-compliance. For example: you could tag on going to bed 5 min earlier the next night for each time he comes out of his room. It will probably take a couple of weeks for it to work but it will work as long as you are consistent. I also have a set phrase for my boys, something along the line of it's bedtime, you don't have to sleep but you do have to stay in your room. The clincher is that I get them up at the same time each morning regardless of what time they actually fell asleep.

Regarding getting out of bed at night, you don't have to put him back in bed. Opening your eyes telling him that you love him and that he needs to go back to bed should be sufficient. He'll end up in his bed, in your bed, or asleep on the floor.

The throwing and hitting are a totally different matter and need to be treated as such. For us it was an automatic time out every time physical violence was used whenever it was used but that isn't the way every family deals with it.

Good luck.

Definitely an attention issue. My 3.5 year old was a dream at bedtime until recently. He senses that our attention is now divided between him and his baby brother. The thing that helps is more attention. I know it's hard to achieve with two kids! At 3.5 he's old enough to communicate with you. At some time other than bedtime - when he's calm - talk about why he gets upset at bedtime, ask him what he needs. Maybe all he wants is an extra 5 minute cuddle. My son is always getting up, wanting us to fix his blanket. We realized that if we go thru a little routine of straightening it out together, then he's happy to stay in bed.

I really empathize with you. My 14-year-old was finally diagnosed with Asperger's Sydrome and ADHD around the age of 7, and we had many days and evenings such as you describe. It's so hard to keep the calm, repetitive response to your son's actions. Since your son has demonstrated that he is capable of falling asleep without a fuss (i.e. with Daddy), it seems reasonable to expect him to get to the point where he is doing the same with you. Give yourself a break in realizing that many times even though you are doing everything "right," it just won't work. One of our son's counselors told us something early on that really helped, though I didn't like hearing it the first time: "If you don't provide your child with limits, he will find them." I realized that by continuing to engage in the power struggle, I was actually letting my son determine the interaction and outcome. You might try just taking him into bed, asking if he wants a story, a stuffed animal to sleep with, a night light, etc. EVEN IF HE'S SCREECHING AND KICKING. If he refuses, or continues to fuss, tell him you love him, give him a kiss/hug if you can, say goodnight, and leave the room. If he stays in his room, let him have his tantrum. If he comes back out, repeat the process - and this is the hard part - as many times as you have to. Eventually, he will wear himself out. The hard part is sticking with this night after night. It can take 1, 2, or 7 nights. They're all different. Just attend to his basic needs, assure him you love him, and the rest really is up to him. If you are at the point of responding in anger, try to get some help from a relative or trusted friend, to give you a break. Meanwhile, consider your son's interests, what does he like? Maybe a revolving light that projects friendly animal shapes on the wall (a sort of night light) would soothe him and take his mind off of fighting with you. Or, a music box or radio to help him fall asleep; or a book with sounds and/or lights that he can take to bed and play with. Also, consider what he may be wanting more of during the day. Would 30 minutes of just you and him time before bed, doing something he loves, help fulfill him and relax him? Or a warm bath, playing with water toys with you, using lavender shampoo? I will also tell you of a method we used that our son's counselor recommended, but you should only use it if you are comfortable with it, and you should talk to professionals such as a counselor or doctor before trying it: It's called the "gentle restraint method." If your child doesn't respond to the other things I've mentioned or you have tried, and is totally out of control, especially if he is throwing things at you and kicking/hitting, facing his back, you put your arms around his upper body and your legs around his legs; without squeezing and never in anger, you hold him there just enough to keep him from flailing around, lowly saying into his ear, it's okay, I'm here, I love you, every few seconds. Eventually, he will grow tired and relax. Then you say something like, it's okay, I'm going to let you go now. He'll either remain relaxed or start fighting you again. I can tell you that my son never did start fighting again, and he is pretty stubborn. I HAD to use this because I was pregnant at the time, and my older son was hitting and kicking in his worst tantrums. It worked. I didn't have to get angry, and it ended peacefully. But again, seek other advice about this and only use it if you feel "right" about it, okay?
The other part of this is to take care of yourself in special ways. When Daddy is home, do something just for you- something that fills YOU up, like a bubble bath, an evening taking a quiet walk, a movie with friends. Nurture yourself as much as you can, because you have one of the toughest jobs on the planet, being a mom of small children, and you deserve it. Hang in there; he'll change before you know it!

It sounds to me that when Daddy comes in he knows play time is over. Perhaps your best bet is to communicate with him that there is no more play time with Mommy. As difficult as it is to think about, he might be realizing that he can get away with the misbehavior with you, so he is testing his limits to see how far he can go.

The thing that seems to make sense, and has been recommended by other people (like the Nanny Whisperer, but lots of other sources as well), is that you go through the bed time routine, put him in bed, leave, and don't go back. If he gets up you put him back into bed with as little comment or interaction as possible, leave, and don't go back. You want to give him as little feedback and interest as possible after the initial 'going to bed'.

With my daughter we had some rough times until we said 'If you stay in bed, the door will stay open.' She really wants the door open, so it only took one night of putting her back in bed, shutting the door, and walking away before she figured it out.

Your son is a bit older, and i understand one issue with that approach is that he can be potentially destructive to his room. I suppose you could remove any truly valuable or breakable things, and then let him go at it if he needs to. In the morning you can have him help you pick up the things he threw on the floor, and even possibly put them in a box to be put away until the sleep issues are sorted out.

As for night waking - just stay away, and let him figure out how to get back to sleep. Its hard to do, but it became easier for me once i realized that every trip into the room was just more disruption and made things take longer.

Just an idea... But good luck whatever you choose. I hope it rights itself soon.

Sounds like it correlates to the new baby arriving 4 months ago and maybe he feels displaced so thats his way to get attention even if its not positive. Have you tried validating his feelings - jealous, frustrated, and that his feelings are all okay, etc.?

Our older child was 17 months when our second arrived and by 21 months she was in a convertible bed bc she could climb out. We had the same issue of her getting out of bed a million times when we put her down. I can't remember how long that phase lasted but not too long. Then, we had a visitor every night - so all 4 (us, the new baby and our toddler) of us were in our room! Anyway, I could not keep her out by gating her bc I was fearful she was scared so I just couldn't do that to her. A friend suggested to leave a sleeping bag and pillow under the bed so she didn't wake us or get in our bed (she is a very floppy sleeper). That worked really well for us - she would come in around 2 or 3 am and sleep on her blanket next to our bed.

She is now almost 3 and goes to sleep fine and sleeps all night in her room. But, maybe I'll be in your shoes in 6 months!

I would just try to cater to him bc I think it ties to the baby's arrival and the change of his place in your family. You might look into some Lori Lite books/cds which are for children and help with learning relaxation techniques. I read "The Angry Octopus" to my older one many nights to try to help her calm down and go to sleep.

Hi P.:

You don't say what your son's daytime sleep schedule is like or what time you are putting him to bed. Is he still nappping in the afternoon? If so, I'd make sure he's not sleeping past 3:30 or so. He might not be tired when you're putting him to bed.

I'm not an expert, but what has worked for us in the past is to put our son to bed and tell him we'll be back in 10 minutes. We come back. If he's still up we say we'll be back in 15 minutes. If he's still up, we say we'll be back in 20 minutes and it goes on from there. Most times he got tired from waiting and was asleep after the second return visit.

A friend of mine has a son who continuously came out of his room, and so they put a lock on the outside of his door so he could not come out. He would sometimes play in his room for a while but would eventually go to sleep. They unlocked the door when they knew he was asleep or they went to bed, whichever happened first.

I think your goal should for now, to be to keep him in his room. He'll get tired eventually. The key is to be firm. Put him back in bed EVERY time. Just say simply, "it's time for bed" and don't say anything else, don't engage him at all (I saw this on Super Nanny and it worked!).

Good luck. I can only imagine your frustration and exhaustion!

Hi there - I dont know if I will help much but since you have a new baby in the house, it may be an attention issue. Your son maybe thinking that he is not getting enough attention from you now so he is acting out. It may be that the change of having a new baby in the house is hard for him and he feels he is not getting enough attention from you since it sounds like your husband does not go through this like you do. If you can, try to give him some one on one time, do something special just for him without the baby if you can. Do you have down time before bed? Maybe reading stories or doing something quiet will help as well. Have you tried to talk to him about what is going on? I know he is still young but you might try asking him what is wrong, why he wont go to bed, etc..Sorry, I am just kind of thinking out loud...I hope this helps!

I totally feel for you my son is 3.5 too and has some major sleeping issues. But he always has, he's never been able to sleep through the night and always makes his way to our bed. Im not sure your problem has to do with the new baby I think there is a sleep patern they get used to and it's a hard one to break.
Can your husband talk to him about mommmy putting him to sleep? Then maybe trying the exact same process he takes?
We did try the sleeping bag by our bed it worked for a short time, then back to co-sleeping (which I'm not a fan of)!
Good luck, we have our second baby coming is a couple months I'm going to work on our 3.5 sleeping in his own bed....again :)

I thought you got some great idea, but I also put a lock on my sons room soon after baby number two came. My son didn't throw tantrums but would leave his room multiple time. Often I was taking that opportunity to nurse and I didn't think it was safe. It really ended our power struggle. Now he doesn't always go to sleep but he does stay in his room. It has definitely improved my mental heath as well! As soon as they are asleep you can unlock it. Good luck!

You can not make a toddler do three things, eat, sleep, and poop. (sigh) As you have found out. You are in the middle of a power struggle, as well as a attention getting behavior.

This is going to sound very non productive to do, but I would put him to bed once and then let him throw as many temper tantrums as he wants. You may want to get a simple latch lock on the door if your goal is to keep him in his room.

If he comes out of his room totally ignore him...don't talk to him, don't look at him. If you want, you can pick him up but that is what he wants you to do, so I would do.

When involved in a power struggle, do the opposite of what the child wants, it will get them every time.

Also find some way to give attention to him as a big boy. Catch with dad, trips by him self to the library, swimming lessons, leave the baby at home sometimes.

... put a baby gate up at his door.

It sounds like maybe he is overtired by the time you are putting him to bed. Perhaps it might work to put him down earlier. I know the later my daughter goes to bed the harder time she has falling asleep.
Also another thing is you might be having a power struggle which might work out better if you he feels like he has more control (choices) of the situation. You might give him a choice of lots of stuff (on the bed or in a sleeping bag) which goodnight stories etc.
I just bought the Tot Clock. It seems like it would really work in your situation. You set things like bedtime etc. and the clock changes face color when it is time to sleep or time to wake or reading time is over etc.I haven't used it yet but it might be worth looking into they have a 30 day money back guarentee.
Good luck

I agree that at this age, you should be able to have a few conversations, during the day, to find out what his perceived needs are. He may be able to give you important clues about what's going on for him. If he feels some emotional need is going wanting (this could well be the case with the new baby - especially since his distressing behavior is aimed at you), you may be able to help meet that need at other times during the day.

Keep in mind that he's a VERY young person. He has needs he can't clearly name, and strategies for meeting those needs that arise from pure instinct. Young children's emotional needs are legitimate, even though they are seldom convenient for adults. He's not planning to make you miserable, he's just really unhappy about things that are beyond his control.

I hope you will look for some good coaching on effective parenting techniques. Kids don't come with instructions, and all the best parents I have known consider it necessary to continually educate themselves about the intricacies of this most wonderful (and sometimes terrible) of relationships. Love and Logic is one very fine resource.

There are a some brief but helpful videos at http://www.naomialdort.com/lectures.html . I have been reading and applying Naomi Aldort's advice for several years working with my grandson and young children in my religious community, and have been better for it.

Here's another wonderful 8 minute video on communicating with your children in a way that respectfully connects with their needs, and results in a much greater likelihood that they will (eventually) be able to hear your needs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQO7h9MNCqI

I also resonate with Alfie Kohn's approach in Unconditional Parenting. Google his name to see a couple of YouTube videos, or find him here http://www.alfiekohn.org/index.html

And finally, I just found this recommendation in another response on Mamasource. This is a parenting coach who writes a helpful blog. Arichived blogs on multiple topics are available on the website: http://www.theparentpartner.com/

My daughter used to get out of bed constantly. Once it was 13 times in one hour. Finally we reached the end of our rope as well. We installed a lock on the outside of the door. We would go through our routine and say goodnight. Then we would say "OK Ashley, you need to stay in bed or we are going to close your door." If she got out of bed we would say "OK, now we have to close the door,good night. I love you." and we would put her to bed and lock the door. She threw a few fits but rather quickly she learned to stay in bed. We would always unlock her door before we went to bed for safety reasons or if she needed to go potty in the middle of the night. After a while we could leave her dor open all night and she would stay in bed. It worked. And we figured it was better than us yelling at her or spanking.