Tough Times W/ a 3 Year Old, Any Advice?

Hi J.~

Just wanted to tell you that in my experience, this is so normal. I know, that doesn't hslp at all, but might just be slightly comforting... My son, who is going to be 4 in January, was very similar. He was always a very active little guy, and kind of a high needs baby, but in general, had pretty good behavior. We got through the two's, and I thought, "that wasn't so bad!" Then three came. I'll tell ya, it was almost like someone had flipped a switch. I began realizing how arrogant I was to think we had basically sailed through the two's without a hitch! He started tantruming like nobody's business, we butted heads constantly, and like you, there were weeks that I felt like all I did was discipline him... and I hated every minute of it. You do start to question everything, and it is certainly frustrating, even if you are able to keep in proper perspective, which obviously you are.

On the brighter side, as we are on the downslope of the three's, things have returned to much like they were. My son is responding well to verbal requests, rarely needs a time out these days, and seems much more like the sweet boy I remember.

I do think it's a phase that lots of kids go through, and as with any phase, thank heavens, it ends. Now, don't get too excited, because with the end of one phase comes the beginning of another, but hopefully the tougher phases will be intermixed with peaceful ones to give you both a break!

Hang in there. Continue to be consistent with discipline. Try to use humor to diffuse some of her angst. Sometimes laughter is the best medicine for both of you when nothing else seems to be working! Remember it's ok to laugh and in doing so, you're not un-doing everything you taught her. You're just teaching her that sometimes we don't have to be so serious.

Best of luck to you! You aren't alone!

My son is only 18months, but I have lots of friends with kids older than that. From what I have heard them say, 3 is much worse than the "terrible 2's"!! I have also heard them say the same things you are, testing limits and refusing to obey being the TOP 2 things that happen! So at least try to be reassured that yours isn't the only one with a case of the "terrible 3's"!! Continue to be consistent with discipline and give her lots and lots of love when she is behaving and listening.
I agree with Donna as well, try and have family or friends watch her 1 night a month or so so you and hubby can have some adult husband/wife time!
Good luck and hang in there!
PS- I will be messaging you in a year or so asking what you did to help and how long it lasts! :) LOL

I had to giggle when I read your post - you are right to say you will laugh at it one day. IMO, the 3's are incredibly difficult. My kids, who I felt were pretty well behaved, both made stong moves toward independence, testing the waters left and right, etc at 3 years. If you feel stressed don't hesitate to put your daughter in a safe place - crib, bedroom, etc - and take a timeout for yourself. Stepping away from the situation for 5 minutes or so is a good way for you to calm down, assess what is working or not working and choose what to do next.

You ask if longer time outs are in order. It is recommended 1 minute for each year of age. I've added additional time to timeouts for my 5 year old and I feel it works with him. I'm not sure how successful it would be with a 3 year old. I think I would try a different location. Maybe another room that is away from where she wants to be yet close enough that you can keep an eye on her.

Have you tried allowing her to gave choices so she feels she has some control? For example, when you tell her to get dressed and she gives you a hard time, maybe give her the choice of 2 outfits. It may take her mind off the issue at hand and it gives her a chance to make a choice.

Somethat that also works with my kids is counting to 3. The book Magic 1-2-3 describes how to do so without falling into common pitfalls.

You mention the way that your husband speaks to your daughter seems to make an impact on her. Maybe try speaking more like he does. I remember reading in a parenting book that if your voice sounds wavering instead of authoritative kids can pick up on that and interpret your directives as optional. You don't have to yell to sound authoritative, just be firm and confident.

It may be time to try other tactics like removing the toys that she refuses to clean up, taking away privileges, using a reward system to reinforce the positive behaviors. Whatever you choose be consistent, go over the rules frequently, and praise her when she does well.

Hang in there. It will get better. Although as you are seeing with each age comes new hurdles. Best wishes to you.

It sounds to me like you are completely in charge & your daughter is just trying to get some control of her own life. I recommend giving her choices whenever possible. For example, when she gets dressed in the morning lay out two of everything & let her pick what to wear. Then you are not telling her to get dressed, you are letting her decide what to wear. If you are spending the day at home & she wants to go sockless, let her. Just leave the socks out where she can reach. Tell her if her feet get cold she can put them on.
When it comes to cleaning up, do it with her & make it fun. My son & I sing clean up, clean up, clean up as we clean. There have been times where he has told me he won't help, but after a few minutes of me singing & cleaning on my own, he always joins in. Lastly, pick your battles. Maybe now that she is older you can let her have 2 bins of toys at a time (make a big deal of it). Maybe offer her a healthy snack, like cheese. Let her help you make meals. My son started helping me when he was around 18 months. He usually eats more when he gets to help make the meals. Some things he does: pours pasta into the pot to cook (I hold the box & he "helps" me tip it over), he stirs things, he squeezes the ketchup & mustard. When making PB&J I give him a spoon & let him spread it out on the bread. He helps grate cheese when we make pizza. When we make dough or batter he turns on the stand mixer & watches it mix. We scoop out flour, sugar, etc; but we let him dump them in the bowl.
Good luck I hope you find some of this useful.

I don't want to come off too blunt, but I don't have time to think of a subtle way to say this. She's sick of being controlled. I felt my heart racing as I read the pile of arbitrary rules and restrictions you put on your daughter. Loosen up. Let her make some choices. You don't even let her decide whether or not she wants to wear socks. You don't feed her a snack unless she already ate something else. You put her toys up where she can't reach them. She's coming up with creative ways to get what she wants--step stool! great idea!--and you're punishing her for it.
Try not expecting her to act differently than she does. Try expecting her to want to eat snacks, make a mess, play with her toys, and take her socks off. Is it so bad? You don't need to control her. She's fine as she is. She's 3.
Try this: http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/conditional.htm
And this: http://www.naomialdort.com/articles8.html

Your daughter is growing up. She's stretching her little wings and trying to gain a little autonomy. She is seeing herself as a person who is different from you, not just an extension of you, and she's trying to have some control over her life.

You have a choice to make: do you enforce all the same rules she's always had, or do you give in on some issues? If you give in on some of them, which ones do you relax?

Those are your decisions to make. . . but here's what I think: At about that same age, with my 1st, I realized that I was going to spend 95% of it saying, "no" if I kept the mindset I'd started parenting with. . . .So I looked around and thought, "What is really important, what doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things?" Then I drew a different line in the sand, and I only said no, half the time. The other thing I learned very quickly, is that when my 2 yr old started to reason with me over my decisions, she made more sense than I did. hmmmm . . . Which also led me to rethink my rules, but also led me to a one liner: Never argue with a 2 yr old. You will lose ground.

I have 4 girls, the youngest are now teens. The younger girls had WAY fewer rules than the first two girls, and they are still good kids, law abiding, centered and respectful teens. .. .What it takes is consistency, respect and love, not a zillion rules aimed at perfection.

Why don't you put a certain number of toys down low, where your daughter can control what she plays with ? Why not let her have more than one toy out at at time ? Maybe no in the living room, but why can't she have some control over her bedroom ? She can pick them up at bedtime.

Another thing you can do with your daughter, in the rain and winter, is to join the Y and take swimming classes together. It's fun time more than anything, but it also teaches your child to be able to swim at least long enough until you would be able to rescue her should she ever fall into water. (I found taking my kids the the Y was the very best way to get them bathed. They balked at home, but the Y rules are: shower before you get into the pool, and shower after to get the chlorine off your body. . . so we used to go to family swim on bath nights, cuz no one argued about showering and I didn't have to pay for the water or to heat the water !!)

The longer you parent, the fewer issues you have. There will always be horrible days when everything goes wrong, but the more kids you have, the less control you have, so at that point, you only discipline the absolute necessities. The first child, however, is what I call the "experimental" child. All first kids get stuck with parents who have high expectations, and have time to enforce those. The younger kids get the benefit of the older ones bucking the system so they can just be themselves and don't have to be perfect like kid #1 does. So what I would recommend, is that you try to look at life from your child's perspective -- from HER perspective, what rules are burdensome and what rules are good? And from your perspective, which rules would you die for? Know your own limits, you sound like a very orderly person, so you want life orderly, but be willing to compromise on the less important issues -- otherwise this autonomy thing is going to really get to you. You're daughter will probably survive either way, but you'll go nuts. :-)

Enjoy ! This is the first of many challenges we grow into as parents ! (And on the positive side, I think you'll find that while your daughter may be tough at home, she's probably very good in public, which is the balance you would prefer if you had to choose)

Hi J.,
Just wanted to let you know I FEEL your pain! My daughter sounds like a carbon copy of yours! IMO, 3 is so much incredibly harder than 2. I always tell my friends, whoever says it's the terrible 2's never had a 3 year old. I think it sounds like you are handling things well though. I know it's frustrating, trust me! Personally I keep telling myself that this is a phase, and keep up with the things you are doing. I also think being sure to really point out the positive behavior is important at this stage. Otherwise I feel like I'm picking all day, and I don't want it to be like that either. And at least my daughter really thrives on that positive reinforcement.

Anyway, I know what you are going through. My oldest is 3, so though we are not through it yet, from what everyone tells me, this gets easier, just in time for your next parenting dilemma to begin. :)

I don't have any advice except "be calm and consistent." She's testing boundaries and when she figures out that they are FIRM (which should be quickly, she sounds like a bright little girl) it will pass. For a time. There's going to be more times like this! But it is SOOOO normal and developmentally appropriate! But h*** o* Mama!

Maybe it is time to find a pre-school that shares your discipline values? I find that it helps (a little) when I use the same words at home that my son's daycare teachers do for time out, etc. But hey, just just figured out that she CAN get up from time out. Now she has to figure out why she really doesn't want to. That's a HUGE life lesson you are helping her learn. Good job!

Hello J.,

I must say that I had a HUGE smile on my face when I read your post. I vividly remember the battles I had with my daughter about getting dressed. All dad had to do was say he liked the clothes I had sellected and on they would go with a smile (after I had argued for 5-10 minutes). I even remember taking her to babysitting at a Y where I worked in her pjs since she refused to change, it didn't happen again. She is now 9, closing in on 10 and has perfected her tween attitude to a tee. I didn't realize how many times you could roll your eyes. But I wouldn't have it any other way.

Congratulations on having a strong willed, resourceful and imaginative daughter. While day to day will prove to be no picnic, you are raising a young girl who will go places in life and won't be run over and pushed to the side. I constantly find myself walking a fine line silently encouraging my daughter to continue her strong assertiveness and worrying that she is being brash and rude and to a point domineering.

Pick your battles and let some things slide. The best advice I got was to look at her behavior and decide if it will still be cute when she is 15. If not, then make sure you don't allow it. That said, have you tried any type of reward system. Most kids her age love stickers. Try setting up a poster with your top 5 jobs she need to do, getting dressed, putting away toys etc. If she does them, she gets a sticker on the chart. After 5 stickers (you decide how many) she gets a treat. The treat could be helping you bake cookies, an extra book from the library, eating breakfast at dinner, and extra book at bedtime, bath crayons for use in the tub, paint with colored shaving cream. You know her favorites, so use them as bait for good behavior.

Try to focus on the good things she does. Read her a book if you see behavior you like. Make sure to share with dad when he gets home something you were proud to see her doing that day. Try not to focus on the negatives. Once she starts seeing how much attention she gets for positive behavior, you'll start to see changes.

Again, congratualations for having such a self assured daughter. Yes, you'll feel like pulling your hair out on more than one occasion, but by allowing her to assert herself you are giving her freedom to be so much more when she is older.

Cheering you on.
-M.

This sounds like your typical three yr old. That's how my son was at three. Hang in it does get better.

Hang in there - it's a phase. A frustrating one though huh? My son is 4 so I'm not sure if this would work for your daughter, but recently instead of telling him to sit in time out, I tell him to go to the other room, sit in the chair, etc. "until he's ready to act nicely, sit at the dinner table, etc." Basically he is in a time out, but I don't word it that way = I make it his choice as to when he can get up so it's not like me telling him what to do, it's him deciding to act a certain way if he wants to do what the rest of the family is doing or play with a toy, etc. It's been working pretty well. He'll usually sit for a few minutes and then say "Mommy, I'm ready to play nicely, or whatever it was he was to start doing."

This does not work for my 2 1/2 yr old. I think he's too young for this. For him, I do use time outs, but I buckle him in his booster seat otherwise he'd get up and run around and not stay in time out.

It's good you're trying to keep your sense of humor because you're right it will be funny one day...maybe today! Try to keep things in perspective - pick your battles. Good luck!

I am not an expert on this but I have had a lot of luck with using a chart. My son loves Spongebob so I made a nice looking chart and stuck velcro to the back of a spongebob I printed and cut out. Whenever he is naughty I give him the warning and then tell him that he will move down the chart, further away from his reward.
Every time he does little chores and helps out (cleaning up toys) then he can move up on the chart. (he loves this part!)
I also use the great art of distraction when I see him getting naughty. Like if he doesn't want to get dressed I will make it into a game or get him to pay attention to something else, then he'll forget he was even being stubborn.
I know a lot of kids use being naughty and stubborn as a way to get attention. My little one has tested me plenty of times too.
It's hard but just hang in there and be consistent. Never give in to her as if she knows she can get what she wants by being naughty, trust me, she will. Also never let her see you get angry or frustrated (as hard as that is sometimes!).
I believe the majority of kids this age (2-4) are just going through a 'naughty' phase and its nothing you have done wrong.
You sound like an awesome mommy who loves her baby girl very much. Just know you are not alone.
I am sending you a big cyber hug! Good luck :o)

Hi J. ... Welcome to the terrible threes! Your daughter is absolutely testing her limits with you, but it sounds like you have some wonderful and reasonable expectations so don't cave on that end. My three- and five-year-old no longer respond to time-outs either, but we do send them to their room (we don't allow toys in their rooms) when the big tantrums start up. The best discipline trick that's been working for us with our three year old girl is to take away her bedtime stories. Now she always asks us if she's lost her stories. And remember to pick your battles --- decide what issues are truly important to you and focus on those. I'm also trying to cut back on having to yell so I remind myself to just give the kids one warning before the consequence comes. That alone makes life so much better. They can argue and beg all they want with me but I'm not going to engage. Good luck, D.

I, too, thought I had magically escaped the "Terrible Twos", and then "Three" happened!

She is becoming more independent and is trying to figure out just how much she can challenge the rules. She has a brain of her own and she is starting to use it. That's what we want!
At three, time out's didn't work for my son. What worked better for me was taking away a favorite toy or privilege for the rest of the day.
She needs to know WHAT the rules are and you need to be consistent in enforcing them. I've been criticized for saying this but I believe in picking your battles. Not everything is worth a fight over. Keep rules in mind though. Good luck!

Just wondering if she might be feeling the beginnings of the flu or the difference in routine. It also might be a growth spurt if she is eating like that, is she ready to change naptimes like from 2 down to 1 or one that is later or shorter or something. Stand strong and keep doing what you are doing, and know that these bad times won't last.

She might want some extra one on one focused attention, too. sometimes if you give them just a little extra it will go a long way.

Hi, J.:

First of all: relax. You both are going to be together for
a long time.

Second: Find a parenting class near you and obtain the support you need.

Three: Sit down and talk with your child and find out what it is that she needs.

Fourly: Find a Co-Dependency Anonymous Support group in your area.

www.coda.org.

Fifthly, Ask for help from your family and friends for you
to take a break.

Good luck. Thanks for your courage to ask for help.

D.

Well, Yes, I will encourage you. Hang in there and hold on. Three is a tough age. Two is easy; you distract them when fussy and give them choices, this or that and everyone's happy. That party was fun, but, I'm sorry to say, the party is over. Threes want to be heard, they want to test the limits and they want to do it now and this goes on until about four when they move on to another phase, but ages 3 & nine for mine and most kids are transitional ages as far as limits and consequences and then come the teen years. But wait, one age at a time. So, the good news is it only lasts a year and the bad news is it lasts a year. So, know that there are books, amazingly not as many as on twos but there are some helpful ones out there, but ultimately trust your judgment. If something's not working try a new consequence or discipline. Every child has their carrot to be awarded. But, remember this is not a negotiation, a popularity contest or test of wills. You are the mom. You make the rules. There are consequences for disobedience and rewards for good behavior. Remember the rewards. They will. Time outs never really worked for my kids, but do it if it works for yours, nor did bedroom time; my daughter liked that one, but losing playdates, tv, video game time, etc. Now that carried weight and sometimes so did a little tlc and change of scenery. Good Luck. You sound like a dedicated, hang-in-there until the job's done kind of mom. You'll both be fine.

Hi! I'm in a bit of a rush, and haven't had time to read the other posts, so pardon me if that shows. Just wanted to say that sometimes when I find that my two-yr-old seems to be in trouble more than usual (also very good-natured and pretty compliant), I need clear the schedule and give her a little extra attention. Don't get me wrong. I am strict with our rules, and she never gets to win our arguments! This isn't touchy-feely advice. All the discipline still applies! But I try to be present with her. Leave the dishes and the laundry, and get her in my lap for all the tv she wants--even the shows that drive me crazy. I should say that tv is the one way to help her keep still for the cuddling she actually is asking for. Also, she does get plenty of attention on a daily basis, but sometimes she just needs a little more mama time. It usually gets us back on track. Good luck!
Martha

Hi!
I am going through the exact same thing with my soon to be 3 yr old!!! I was thinking up till now, what are the terrible 2's? My daughter has been so good! Deep down I knew it had to be coming and here it is! I have to say this just takes enormous patience. My daughter used to behave in time-out as well and now suddenly will not sit and defies me over and over. I do use the bedroom. It seems to work so far! I sit her up in her bedroom in the rocking chair and she screams and cries - but I ignore her and shut the door. (so far she has not opened it even though she can, if it gets to that point, I will have to reverse the door knob) I read a VERY good book called Making Your Child Mind Without Losing Yours. It covers from toddler age up to teenagers and it was so good! The author says it is best to isolate the child, once she is not getting attention, she will stop tantruming. So far it works! When they're in time-out near you, where you can hear/see them, they continue to misbehave, but if they're in their room, you cannot see them, maybe not hear them. I have had her up there as long as 15 min before she calmed down and behaved.
Other than that, I am just laying down the law as I always have and I do not fold. She knows if she whines/cries at me for something I will not give it to her.

Good luck!!!!!

Hi J.

You have heard from all the other Mom's that this is so typical 3! A few things I started with my son at that age were changing the time out from sitting in a chair to standing facing the wall - he hated that more. Also, taking toys away. If you have to battle to put toys away or if there is a behavior you want to stop, I would say: you can either pick up the doll, or I will and you do not get to play with in anymore today, etc. I try to give the punishment as an option also, either you stop yelling now or you go sit in your crib, do you want to sit in the crib, or stop yelling? That works partucularly well with my 2 y/o daughter. I think consistency is the key. Which is not always easy, good luck.

Hi J.,

After reading your story, I think that your answer is easier than you think. The way I see it is your daughter is not so much trying to go against you, she is just learning how to deal with her yearning to be independent.

When she went upstairs to get the step stool, I don't think she did it to get you upset; I think she just wanted more toys to play with. Maybe she could have less clean-up time and more play time. We clean up before nap, and before bed. My daughter is only 19 months, so what works with her may not work with your daugher, but rather than getting my way with her, I found that it is all about the distraction.

Positive reinforcement does WONDERS - play down the undesirable behavior and play up the good things. They learn quickly what gets your attention, and if it is the negative behavior that gets your attention, that is what will continue.

I sometimes feel the way you do and I find that I have to force myself to take a step back from it all for a minute - in the overall scheme of things, as long as they are safe, let them explore their world. When I get frustrated, I just sit down and play with my daughter - act silly, splash like crazy in the bath, dance around to loud music - something that destresses both you AND your daughter.

Good luck and don't worry - all moods are temporary...

L.