Need Help to Keep 4Th Grader Focused and Responsible at School and for Homework

Hi M.,

I have a 10 1/2 year old son who is going through the exact same things as your daughter. My son is in the 5th grade though. I thought it was just my son having these memory lapses and showing lack of responsibility. He's having difficulty in math and getting low grades including F's and this is from a child who could talk fluently by 2 years old, knew all the states on the US map by 2, knew everyone in the family's date of birth by 2 1/2, and was reading by 4 among many other things.

We put him in tutoring and all the test grades came up to A's when he retook the tests. Now the math grades are down again. He won't check his work, won't read the directions before he starts, does as little as necessary to get by and rushes to beat everyone else in the class to get done. He's had a lot of homework this year and I think he's just ready to get out for the summer.

It must be the age. That's all I can think it must be. Please know that you are not alone in this type of situation.
I'm going to give him a few weeks off during the summer, then I'm going to get him tutoring again in mid July to refresh the 5th grade things they learned and give him a head start on 6th grade math. It's kind of too late in the year at this point to worry too much. They are mostly doing review math right now so if he can stay focused a few more weeks.

That's about all I know to do. I'll stick with the tutoring if he is still getting low marks in 6th grade but I may tell him he will help pay for tutoring (from his allowance) if he doesn't focus and bring those grades up. Talking money always gets is attention. Good luck. L.

Hi M. -

I'm going to copy this same response to the Mom asking how to motivate a 3rd grader, because I have a feeling that the same issues are at work.

First off, kids do not fail on purpose in elementary school, especially when they have parents who are trying to help them, keep them on schedules, get them to do their work, etc.

When kids constantly forget stuff, can't sit still long enough to get homework done, do poorly on tests even though they are bright enough to get high grades, don't appear to be motivated or are 'slacking off' THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG. At this age, kids WANT to succeed and be good at school. If they are not doing as well as they are capable of doing, that means there is an issue.

For both moms, I recommend requesting a full assessment from your schools. To do this, write a letter to your school district's superintendent or to the director of special education and request a full psychological assessment. This sounds scary -- but don't let it intimidate you. Legally, the district MUST comply with an assessment.

Although I obviously can't diagnose anything based on these short summaries, 3rd grader mom sounds like you may have ADD or on your hands. Smart, capable, charming, unmotivated. The lack of motivation isn't laziness, it's because it is simply too hard to stay 'mentally organized' long enough to get the work done. However, you need to ask yourself honestly -- is it really a lack of motivation, or are your standards too high? If your daughter is just laid back like your husband, then maybe you need to let it go.

M., this lack of organization in your daughter sounds like poor executive functioning, and if it isn't addressed soon, she will hit a wall in junior high, when she has 6 or 7 classes to content with. I would definitely recommend requesting assessment -- she may also have a learning disability that has not yet been obvious enough to be called out by the teachers. Either way, it is not a discipline issue and using discipline to get her to be more organized will only do more damage.

If either of you would like more information or referrals to private assessors, just let me know.

Best of luck!

J.
www.evolibri.com

I won't try to give you any ideas on motivating her -- the other moms can do that. But my oldest was like your child, and no matter what I did, he never changed much. Some kids are just that way. I just want to say do what you need to do but RELAX. She is who she is, and she'll probably do fine in life even if she doesn't excel in school. It's harder for you since you only have one kid, and your kid's failings therefore feel more like your fault, or like something you have control over. When you have more than one child and they are all so different -- some excel, some don't -- it's easier to let them be who they are because you realize very little of it actually has to do with you. So keep trying, but don't let yourself get so worked up about it that you don't get to enjoy this journey. In hindsight I wish I'd relaxed about my son's lack of academic excellence. He's still a great guy and he's in college now.

Could you pick her up at school? That way you could get her into the habit of checking that she has everything before she leaves the classroom. It is good that you are taking away the things she obviously puts her interest and attention on instead of her homework - but wouldn't that mean comic books are not her savior, but the enemy?

Your daughter could probably benefit greatly from a nutritional multi vitamin product that I give to my son. It is called Future Star. It is a nice tasting citrus flavored powder that you mix in water or juice. It was actually designed for special needs students as it is specifically formulated to enhance the brain and learning abilities. My special needs son is actually 28 yo now and he is still doing very well with Future Star. It is all about balancing the whole body & brain to maximize potential. Future Star is an excellent product for all students and provides noticable results!

Check out my website at www.symmetrydirect.com/dhendon and give me a call.

Victorious Living for you and yours,
D. Hendon
###-###-####
www.symmetrydirect.com/dhendon

Glad to see you have having so much support with this issue. I wonder if online tutoring could help. It's available 24/7, 4th through 12th grade and a free 25 minute tutoring session is offered. I noticed with one of my three children (all adults now - one SJSU grad, two to go!had a little anxiety about completing homework alone. If a student feels nervous about completing homework, some will procrastinate and make it worse. With on demand tutoring, homework help is available at the time when homework is being done and the student does not feel isolated. I hope this referral will help - www.referralco-op.com Good luck and God bless!

M.~
Is it possible for you to pick her up from school? That way you can check her backpack before she comes home? Also, she may have a vision problem and homework/school work can just be too much for her. Good Luck.

M.,

I go threw this with my 9 year old son. I remind him in the morning to bring certain books home and also write him notes in his school binder and lunch. I also pick him up from school and when I remember, I ask him before we leave the parking lot. My son is not really into him homework at this point because it's getting close to the end of the school year. I also hear that 4th grade is alot harder and they have more work than 3rd grade(my son is in 3rd). I think kids go threw this stage, they are very forgetful and my hope is that they grow up and start being more responsible.

Good luck, I am sure it will get better with time.

Lee R

I have been having the same problem with my 3rd grade son. He doesn't bring home his work or his day planner that the school prvides for the students. He is supposed to write down his homework in the day planner and we sign it when the work is done and he is supposed to return it everyday for the teacher. Long story short I found that allowing him to play on the playground for about 10 minutes everyday before we go home to do homework makes a big difference. He doesn't give me any grief when I let him play a little and his over all attitude is better. Don't know if this will work for you but it has worked for us.

T.

Is there any way you can pick her up from the classroom daily to communicate with her teacher face to face on a regular basis? I know this would be inconvenient, but after a few weeks, it might do the trick. Also, remember that there are only a few weeks left of school.

A homework planner that you and the teacher sign daily is a good thing to do. The teacher is going to have to take on the responsibility to check this planner daily and make sure your child has all of the books and papers she needs. Also, make a positive reinforcement chart. this works well with children of this age. Together figure out what your child has to do daily (homework, good spelling grade on Friday, whatever)and give happy faces or stars for every day that the tasks are completed. Together decide on a special prize for getting 5 stars or whatever goal it is you decide on. Only give positive reinforcement. DO NOT take away a sticker that has already been earned. If it takes your child 2 weeks to earn 5 stars then hold off on the prize until the 5 stars have been earned. Another suggestion is- check your child out for ADHD. This is the age when the symptoms begin to appear, especially in a bright child. They've been able to coast before. Do this right away because you need your child's teacher's input. Contact the pediatrician who will either start the ball rolling or refer you to a specialist. I have been a teacher for 30 years so I have seen many cases. Good luck!

Hi,
I am a 4th grade teacher and I want to praise you for taking an active roll in helping your child. You are doing the right thing by continuing to talk to the teacher. One thing I am wondering is was is the consequence at school for not doing her homework. YOu have consequences at home that you should keep using but check with the teacher. The other idea is to try some positive reinforcement. Discuss with your daughter something she would like or a place to go. She will get that when she reaches the goal you both have set. Discuss what is a reasonable goal such as number of days of bringing her stuff home or days gone with out forgeting. Now it doesn't start over if she forgets she just does earn towards her goal and it will just be longer till she gets it. You can also suggest this to the teacher and she and your daughter can work out a goal for school. Hope this helps keep up the good work.

I know you feel she should be more responsible, and I know the teacher shouldn't be responsible for this, but next year (since we are almost to the end of this one), you should speak with her teacher about her problem with "forgetting" and establish a plan to get the work home. You need to sit down with your daughter and tell her (calmly) what you expect this next year and tell her that you'll be providing some help at home to make sure her work gets done.

I've seen parents pick up their child at the classroom to make sure the work comes home. Teachers will work with you if you give them a chance. I don't know how much you help her out, but when my eldest was in elementary school (starting in 3rd grade), he had a hard time getting the work done, forgot his books, or he overdid things (and would then get upset and wouldn't want to finish). He was a smart student, but had a problem getting it done. I'd sit down with him each night and go over the assignments. If he had to read some book and write a summary/report I often read it to him (or we'd take turns reading a page), discussed the chapter so I knew he understood it, etc. Then he'd get to work. I found this to be a great mom/son time, and I learned alot about him by his statements about the book--his insights were often amazing. I think he enjoyed the time too. I'd check up on him about 10 minutes into the writing assignment to make sure he was on the right track. If he had to study for science, math, etc. I'd test him at home--I wouldn't leave it to him. My husband used to think (and often a teacher) that I was doing the work for him, but I was merely guiding him. As of 7th grade he did all of it on his own, no need for mom's assistance. He is now in high school and almost a straight A student, taking AP courses, and quick to get his work done. Sometimes it just takes a little help from a parent to get them on the right course. I saw many a parent who said "I work all day, I shouldn't have to come home and help my kid with their school work, that is what school and teachers are for." That may be true for many, but often times a few need a little guidance and a gentle push to get them going. Look at it as an opportunity to spend time with your daughter, and help her get over this hump. Good luck.

Ok take a breather! My first year of teaching was 4th grade and let me tell you... your daughter is completely normal and more than likely she is not the only one who is doing this. I KNOW it has to be frustrating for you. What I used to do for some of my more forgetful students was have them write everything down in an assignment book. Then I had them put ALL of their necessary books on their desk and I would check each one off as I saw it go in to their desk. Each student I had to do this for would also have a folder that was for correspondence between me and the parent and I had to sign it and so did the parent. If the student missed EITHER signature from the day before (barring I wasn't out ill or something) then they lost recess. I only had one student who required it for the entire year, but he had Asperger's Syndrome so things took longer for him. If the teacher is willing to do this with you I think it would help her greatly. As the year progressed I gave the children a little more rope...sometimes they hanged themselves... others did just fine! They didn't like having to stay after everyone else left so that I could check off their supplies/books.

I have a child who has special needs, so it does help to have your child checked out just in case. I also read in a great positive parenting book, "Raising a Spirited Child", it states that kids who are easily distracted have parents who are easily distracted themselves. It starts out as something that seems harmless. The parents would say things to their child like, "Look! There's a bird outside our window!" without thinking that the child might be occupied with his own agenda. In another parenting book written by Dr. William Sears and Martha Sears, RN, it suggest that rather than interrupt what the kids are watching on TV, sit down with them to find a good stopping point like a commercial. I then usually record the rest of the show for my daughter and then make sure she watches/erases it later. That way, she knows that things should be completed and cleaned up. A parent can also model completing projects (from start to finish, including setup and cleanup). Because a child's foundation is set before the age of 6, a parent would ideally want to enter the child's world more often (to determine a good time to interrupt) before the age of 6. Regardless of age, modeling is the best way to manage people. Whether you are a mom or a manager of a hair salon...learning truly happens when a leader becomes the example. Also, parents who learn to manage their own to-do lists, calendars, and/or timelines (with milestones) can easily teach their kids task and time management skills to last a lifetime.

M., I went through this exact thing with my son. He is now a graduate of Valley Christian High School but his last year nearly caused me to go insane. Everything that you are doing is going to drive you nuts and I think it will be an indivual decision how to handle the situation. Our school had a program called Powerschool. I've attached the link to see if you could get some information. It wasn't available until his senior year but it made my life so much easier. It allowed the teachers to post EVERYTHING online and you could check the homework, assignments, notes, from any computer that way you were on top of things. Along with a way to communicate with your daughter before she leaves school, maybe you could text her to remind her of what to bring home. My son always conviently "forgot" he had an assignment until Powerschool. But not afterward. Hope this helps.
http://www.powerschool.com/
F. D

My daughter is also in the 4th grade and we also had this problem at the beginning and a little into the middle of the school year. Our situation wasn't to the extent yours is but she was still forgetting stuff at school and even if she did bring it home it was taking her hours to complete. What we did with her was set up an incentive chart with stickers. When she received so many she would get a reward, like a new book, a pair of headphone, going out for ice cream, etc. The reward was usually given once a month and depended on amount of days she received stickers. If she would forget something we still gave her things to do like reading or I found several math quizzes on the internet. I agree that you are giving her consequences for her actions like grounding her when she doesn't bring home her homework. However, I believe we should also reward good behavior. I found that the 4th grade is much harder and more demanding than 3rd grade. It was very hard for me to let go of the fact that my child will not excel in all subjects. I tell her I don't expect her to be perfect. If you don't excel at something I can except that as long as I know you did your absolute best. Things have gotten a lot better but sometimes she still forgets. I hope this helps because I know how frustrating it can be.

Consider having your daughter evaluated for Attention Disorder, Inattentive Type. A lot of the behavior you are describing fits the diagnostic criteria. It is the most common type in girls, and frequently missed because there is no hyperactivity. I am a child psychiatrist in Palo Alto and see it presenting around this time as school gets more challenging.

Hi M.,

I just responded to a similar question, but I think that my response is relevant for both of you. I hope that this helps:

There is a reason why everything you have tried does not work: It is not creating relevence. She also needs to be appropriately challenged. The challenge she is finding is getting around you and her teacher. You and the teacher need to step back and come in from a different angle. Do not BE the challenge, but find a way to create challenges for her that relate to what she should be learning. If the information is not RELEVANT, she will not find it interesting, and she will play avoidance games. Look for activities and information out in the world that you can do and find together which relate to what she is or should be learning. But don't say "here look at this - this is what you are learning in science!" instead, allow her to find the connection. If she is a bright as you say, she probably wont have much trouble finding a conection herself. If she enjoyed the activity you did and then she goes to class thinking "boring" but suddenly realizes that she is learning about something that she has experienced out in the world a light bulb will go on and she will want to share her ideas and involvement will just happen. When she comes home and tells you about these connections praise her for being so clever - intrinsic motivation will take you where you want to be - that is what you are looking for! Negative reinforcement will always make you both hit a wall. If the teacher is not creating relevance himself, it just means you have a bigger job, but tackle it now before she creates bad habbits that effect the rest of her schooling. Once she starts noticing these connections she will want all of her learning to be that way. Think about it, who wants to learn something that they can not relate to the world or their experiences. The challenge will come when she begins to seek out these experiences and outside information on her own. watch for this and support it, and once she takes the lead you can just join her for the ride!
(the exploratorium and the steinhart museum in San Francisco could be good places to start).

Intrinsic motivation is your key!!!

D. and Layla