My Friends Child...

If another child was leaving marks on my child - my primary duty is to protect my child - not my friendship with this mom nor this mom's feelings. Dr. William Sears has written a whole series of books - there is one on child discipline - suggest it. If a variety of approaches do not work at all, I suggest to have her evaluated by a good pediatrician.

J. Steinbach, PCD(DONA)

There is a book I would reccomend called Dare to Discipline by Dr. James Dobson. I have heard excellent reviews on it. Also, the website, focusonthefamily.org may be of help. Please let me know if you received this email. I have been having trouble lately with people not getting my emails.

I hope this helps!
J.

Hi S. -

So many responses! I'll chime in here as well.

When my little one acts badly, I take him from the situation. That is his punishmenet. And I say "Oh, it's too bad we have to leave now. When you act this way, I know you need some time to yourself." It sounds like a simple thing, but it has worked for me. If we are in the mall and he cuts up, we leave. At a friends house and he throws a temper tantrum, we leave. In the grocery store, we leave. Yes it is inconvenient, but he has learned that we don't misbehave. When he throws tantrums at home, I change his setting - usually putting him in his room and telling him he can come out when he's acting like a big boy.

I don't yell or scream - I don't feed into the negative behavior. Paying attention to him when he's acting out leads to more acting out.

I got these strategies from Love and Logic: Magic for Early Childhood (Practical Parenting from Birth to Six Years) by Jim Fay and Charles Fay. They book is written in a hokey manner, but it has worked for us.

I would be concerned when my friend's child misbehaved - especially if there was harm to my own. Removing your own child from the situation can be a lesson as well. As you break up the play party, I would tell the children that when we misbehave it's time to leave.

Good luck with your problem!

S.,

Your child comes first, both physically and mentally. I would be mortified if Brendan (who is 2) hit another child (and left a mark!). I would tell your friend that until her child is better behaived your child cannot play. I would also tell her you are available to talk if she needs help. I would suggest she talk to her pediatrician for ways to stop this behaivor and help her child. I've heard that hitting is a sign that the child needs more attention.

That is a tough issue because you don't want to make someone feel like bad parents but you also need to protect and teach your child. I have been there or at least in similar situations. I believe if it were me that I would 1) casually ask is she has ever seen supernanny! (Time out works for all children if applied correctly...we used to think it didn't work for our kids either). 2) I would try to always have them at my house because then I feel more comfortable correcting someone else's children with, "In my house, we don't hit each other. If the hitting continues, we won't be able to have you over to play for a few days"...or whatever punishment you feel you can muster up the courage for. Good Luck.

Have you ever seen the show on Fox called Nanny 911? It is an excellent guide on how to control "out of control" children. I have two teenagers 16 and 17 and I wish this program was around when they were 2 and 3!!! It's excellent. And they do not condone hitting! Watch the show and tell your friend about it. Rave about how good it is. Maybe she'll be curious and watch it too. The season premier is on Friday, September 8th at 8pm. They also have a website www.fox.com/nanny911. Good Luck.

Hi S.!
I can feel your pain here. I have a close friend with a 5 yr old that STILL behaves like this. I have a 2 yr old & I hate to have them in the same room. I'm always afraid my sweet little girl is going to be hurt. Parents do not always realize their kid is out of control. But MY priority is MY daughter. SO, I have limited time spent with my friend & her daughter. It's a shame that a friendship may be lost, but just protect your child.

The comment has been made "This child you described needs spankings and priveleges taken away from her - time outs don't work for a child that is as strong-willed as her."

As a parent for 20+ years, with a 16 yr old who has been VERY strong-willed since birth, I respectfully disagree. I have never spanked ANY of my children, for ANY reason. I also don't believe in time-outs as anything other than a calming mechanism. We have always tended toward natural/logical consequences when they were the age you describe. For example, if you hit or throw a tantrum while playing, then you have to stop playing and don't get to see your friends again until tomorrow.
The tough part is that this is someone else's child, and therefore you can't make the discipline decisions regarding her. Your job is to protect your child from being hurt, and to teach her what is and isn't acceptable behavior in YOUR family. So I tend to agree with those who suggest limiting the amount of time you spend around this child and her parents. Then, if the parents ask about it, you have an opening for discussing your concerns...and from there, you can determine whether or not they are open to suggestions on new ways to deal with their child.

Hi S.,

I see that you've recd many responses. Many different opinions, book referrals, etc. I read through them and one important factor was missing... Prayer! I will pray for you and your friend's relationship and for God to give you both wisdom and discernment regarding this issue as well as any other parenting issues.

Prayerfully, K.

I just finished reading "The New Strong Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson. I would highly recommend it. If your friend doesn't believe in spanking, she could still use 90% of the advice and techniques in the book.

Hi S.,
How wonderful that you want to help your friend's daughter. It is very trying to see our children influenced in ways that are undesireable, especially at such a young age. There are a number of things that can be negatively affecting this toddler's behavior - from her diet to cleaning products. If you'd like more information, please contact me.
S.

Wow! I would limit playtime with this child as much as possible until her parents get control of the situation. It is possible that the child has emotional problems, but it could also be that the parents aren't consistent enough with discipline. We started giving our son time-outs when he was 18 mos. and it has proven very effective. Having said that, time-outs should not be indefinite or overly used, and they should not be in the child's bedroom.

We have a similar issue with a neighbor kid who has anger problems. Our son comes home from his house confused. We talk to him about what it means to be mean/nice and help him work out his own feelings about the kid. Now he doesn't avoid him, but he keeps his distance and plays with his younger sister who is our son's agemate anyhow.

Oh, I just thought of another posibility for the neighbor's daugher. Kids lash out physically because they do not have any other way to express themselves. Perhaps she has expressive language problems. She can be tested for free by the state and could even receive speech therapy for free as well. It is better to clear up speech issues early so kids won't have trouble learning to read and write. (I'm a special ed. teacher.)

This child you described needs spankings and priveleges taken away from her - time outs don't work for a child that is as strong-willed as her.
I suggest recommending the readings "The Strong-Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson or "Shepherding a Child's Heart" by Tedd Tripp - which encourages the use of spanking.

This has happened to me also with my own child. When I went to my friends house the next time and it happened, I said, "you know my son used to do that too and I took away the 2 things he liked to play with for a couple of days and any time he would do that. I also called the doctor to ask for advise." After I told her that she actually got help for her child. Her child had adhd and was never treated. After the child was treated he was fine. If your friend gets mad at you because of what her child is doing, that is not a real friend. A real friend would like to have suggestions. Good luck with your situation and I hope it gets better soon. I hope this helps.

sorry to hear that the child is having such a hard time
I was reading this

Your two-year-old : terrible or tender / by Louise Bates Ames

Your three-year-old : friend or enemy / by Louise Bates Ames and Frances L. Ilg (Gesell Institute of Human Development)

I know about 1 to 4 years of these thin books which contain very practical advice and throws light on the child psychology.

In 3 year old they mention that kind of food that the child consume sometimes aggravates her

may be you can gift these books to your friend....or a pediatrician might give some suggestions

I am sure the kid would grow up into a strong person with great qualities !

Hi S.-

This is a tough situation to be in but you are a good friend for wanting to help! My son, who is now 9,was exactly like your friends child and it was very difficult for me to participate in Mom's groups thus limiting my friendships for a long time.I feel for your friend but she has to set some rules and put her foot down now brfore it is too late and gets worse!
Here are some things I did from age 2-5 that really made a difference:
I found that my son was overstimuated easily so too many kids around at once made him overwhelmed and he would lash out or have fits.
1.Even at 2 I told him before going into a play date that we would leave and we would go home for a nap if he had a fit.
2.If a fit occurred I would take him outside right away and give him the choice.If it happened again we would leave.
3.Being consistant is so important I can't even tell you!
4.Knowing what made my kid crazed,I tried to arrange playdates at my home where he was comfy and would limit the # of kids to 2 or 3 total. This seemed to work the best.
5.For any tantrums anytime I would pick him up, put him on my lap and hold himwith his arms crossed so that he couldn't move for 1 minute. Seems like an hour at the time but it forces them to calm down in the same way that swaddling in a blanket does to an infant.
6.I did do a lot of time outs but always in the same place (not the crib because he/she will associate sleeptime with punishment!)Time out was usually on the bottom step in a hallway or on the floor in the dining room corner. Time outs were only 1 minute per year of age and yes he hated it but for the child, being separated from Mom is the worst punishment and this WILL work if Mom is consistant and doesn't give in for those 2-3 minutes.
7. Time outs were ALWAYS followed by me telling him how much I loved him and that I was helping him to feel better!

The best things the parent can do is know your child! What sets her off? What could Mom change about the situation to help? My son is now 9 and there haven't been tantrums since age 5 but he is ADHD and his mood is controlled with lots of love and healthy exercise.(Geez, I sound like a shrink huh?)Sometimes a kids tantrums can be from another health issue that Mom doesn't know about so have your friend get her a good check up, limit sugary juice, candy and soda for a start and adding more fruits and veggies instead of crackers and cookies can make a huge difference as diet has changed my sons life!

I hope these things help and that your friend can be strong enough to set rules early on. The biggest problem with kids like this is Mom or Dad are afraid to follow through and forget that the child tantrums are his way of asking for help because they are out of control and it scares them!

Feel free to email me if you want to!

Take care,

S.

Well, that is a tough one becausse she is your friend.But you have to protect your child as well.You can't keep letting your child get bitten by this child.You may have to tell your friend that either she starts correcting her child or the children can't play together.Or you can always let your child bite that child back and after a little while the other child will get the message.

S., so far the advice you have been receiving have been coming from good sources and agree with all on various levels. I would like to add one comment though. First thing, is to remember that the welfare of your child comes first. If some other child was continually doing something that could physically or emotionally harm your child, address it to the parent first. If that does not help, do not have any contact with that parent anymore. It is the parents responsibilty to control their child. It seems these days, people are afraid to step on toes. Trust me I have been there. As you grow older, realization sets in that when you speak out with determination, your voice will be heard. Always go with your gut instinct, its there for a reason.

S., I wouldn't be afraid of offending your friend. If she is truly a friend she will understand you aren't trying to tell her how to raise her daughter, only help in a situation that can get out of control quickly. Especially if your child is in danger or feeling the effects of her rage. If they don't get control now, they never will which can be dangerous later.
I think spanking is necessary in some situations, not every time and the same is true in using time out. I have a 4 yr old son that both those may or may not work depending on the situation or how he feels that day but have found that taking things he wants such as toys away and having him earn them back by helping me or being good at a store or so forth works extremely well. I know of someone who had to remove everything from their older childs room except for the bed. Her school work and attitude at home and toward teachers improved significantly.
They need to set limits with her and show her when she does certain things that are unacceptable, what will happen is this....and it will be hard but they have to keep following through, with all the crying, screaming and temper tantrums, with what they are trying to teach her. Be consistant. Give an inch they will take a mile and run with it.
That being said, there may be something physically wrong with her. Has she consulted her pediatrician for thoughts, ideas or help?

S.

hello maybe she needs to take something away that she or he really likes .also I am mom of a 2 year old and she likes that
sometimes when she doesnt get her way she is my only child and she goes to day care also. sometimes it has work put in her in a chair or taking something he or she really likes this is normal for his age not to share and rembember he or she is only 2 . every child is different but this is common and understand your situation. but she nneds to find other ways to discipline her child because hitting his hard is making worse to that child he can become rebelius and more angry.
if i was you i will tell her veen your friend became angry.
Good luck and god bless mara

Hi,
I feel her pain. I am a mother of a sweet 5 year old boy. When he was two he was terrible and would have terrible tantrums. I felt totally helpless and I even spoke with a child physcologist. The most helpful advice I ever received was be to CONSISTENT. It is never OK to hit or scream. The minute this 2 year old hits or scream she is to be removed from the situation. If she screams and cry ignore the behavior. I could not keep my 2 year old in time out when he was in a rage. So I held him tight facing forward I would ignore the behavior and tell him it ok let it out it ok to be angry, but it is not ok to hurt people. I would hold him tightly until the crying stopped. It's amazing you really feel when the child sucomb. If the pareents are consistent it will change. Just so you know my son was removed from daycare for his behavior. These parents have to stop this behavior now. Controlled TIME OUT DOES Work I am Thankful today, that I have a well behaved almost kindergarten. I hope I was able to help. I really know what your friend is dealing with.

For you...Your child's safety and well-being have to come first. You may need to avoid contact with this other child for a few weeks and see if the nasty little phase has passed. Situations like this make friendships with the parents very strained. Everyone wants what is best, but no one wants to hurt each other's feelings, but somebody usually does somehow feel inadequate anyway b/c it is so frustrating. Whatever you decide to do, the notion of what's best for your kid(s) is most important.
I used to teach pre-school...toddlers. We had a little girl like that who was way too 'psycho" for the classroom. SHe had to be "expelled" for a month b/c of safety to the other kids in the room. It just happens sometimes. I don't know what happened b/c they never brought her back to the school after that.
I have a niece who used to perpetually bite my daughter. Nothing worked for months. They were being babysat together while we worked, and I finally had to pull my kid out and find another day care for her and the baby sister. It was a hard choice with family and all, but I don't regret it. Unfortunately, the only solution sometimes is for one of the parties to remove themselves from the bad situation...esp befor ethe adults feel too much strain. P.

I commend you on being concerned for your friend and her child. You seem like a very caring woman, and that's a good thing.

If I had any recommendation, it would be to first protect your own child. Your duty lies in the interests of your child before anyone else. I would recommend limiting your child's exposure to this "out-of-control" 2-year-old you mentioned. If the mother asks why, then be brief, but gentle in explaining why. If she asks for help, then by all means, offer what help you can. (I read another respondant's recommendation. You might want to take a look at the book she recommended.)

When exposing your child to this other child's behavior is unavoidable, then take a few minutes beforehand to explain to your child that if the actions of the other child are unacceptable (and explain EXACTLY what those actions might be), that you will be leaving the area. Again, be gentle, but firm in your explanation that unacceptable behavior will not be tolerated, but in no way is your child to adopt a violent response. Remember, even bad situations can be used as lessons to direct our own children's behavior and responses.

Hope this helps!