How to Improve Penmanship, Neatness, Mindfulness in 2Nd Grader

Hi Kellie,
You just discribed my eight year old daughter. I'm wondering if I made it just too easy for her. She was my first baby. She also seems to whine a lot more than my other kids. I offer her a reward system. For instance if she does her chores she gets some money each week and can spend it at the dollar section at Target.
E.
Anyone have any other suggestions?

I have an 8 year old boy in 2nd grade. He really struggles with writing. He was also distracted, lazy etc... We found out after seeking an evaluation from a developmental pediatrician who labeled him ADHD, anxiety disorder, sensory integration disorder, and a disoreder that means her has poor fine motor skills. We went and got him evaluated by an occupational therapist at Oakland Children's Hospital who had a slightly different opinion. She said he does not have ADHD because when the taks was within his abilities he was highly focussed but when the task was too hard he lost attention. She also used grips to test the strength of his hands and found them to be very weak. Weak hands cannot make neat handwriting and handwriting is work. We've been doing OT and exercises at home to work on hand strength. Lots of silly putty, using spray bottles, beading etc... Also for the mindfulness. We are character building as a family and working on a character trait each month. Each week we ask the kids to focus on one part of that trait. For example when working on attentiveness. One week was "I will look and people when they talk to me." This week for gratefulness is "I will write thank you notes." Perhaps each week you can focus on one part of what you would like her to do and tell the teacher too. Then both of you can notice that she was diligent to put all her papers in their folders this week.

My daughter is very much the same way. She's 12 now and has gotten much better, but still has more to learn. She had her early school experience with public schools, but has been in a Waldorf school for the past 3.5 years. In her public school they didn't pay much attention to how she was holding a pencil and began teaching her how to write before she was really ready. She also has some visual- spatial challenges. As a result her penmanship was sloppy. She always got bad grades and negative notes on her papers which further drove home the "sloppy" identity. In Waldorf school they have been working with reteaching her how to write through "form" writing to help build up strength, agility, and grace. "Form" writing is more like drawing so it is more fun. The teacher and I worked on focusing on her progress rather than continually pointing out how "sloppy" she was. For the visual-spatial challenges, she was evaluated and did eye exercises at University of Berkeley School of Optomety.
As far as keeping her desk neat (or room or play area for that matter) it isn't laziness, it is more of a priority issue. She has a higher priority for playing than for keeping things neat. I try to keep driving home the point that keeping things neat and organized makes it easier to get work done so she has more play time in the long run. I also occasionally work with her to get things really cleaned up and have her take time to appreciate how nice it looks. I also have a "Chore Chart" where she gets paid 25 cents every time she does even 5 minutes worth of clean up in an area. One day, after not cleaning her room for the week, she had to spend and hour to get it clean. She complained that she only was paid 25 cents for an hour, so I explained to her that if she had cleaned 5 - 10 minutes every day instead, it wouldn't feel like such a big task AND she would make $1.75 instead of 25 cents for the week. She has been cleaning more diligently since then.
So, long and short of it, focus on positive progress and give incentives. If money isn't incentive enough, try other types of rewards and chart progress being made, so she can see the difference. Sometimes if the handwriting was REALLY bad, I would have her redo an assignment, but she already had so much to do, I didn't want to pile on anymore.

I am a homeschool teacher and I know of at least 2 things that cause messy writing. One is having a child repeat cursive writing practice material into the ground just for the sake of filling time. (I did this with my first born). She started out with pretty good writing but after the second year of practice, she got so tired of writing these practice sheets for this one curriculum that she started getting messy. I myself after 2 years of repeated signatures constantly at work, got a messy "doctor's signature!" so I can relate.

The other reason is having a curriculum or a teacher which allows any sloppiness during the initial stages of formal penmanship training. An example of that type of curriculum is "Handwriting without Tears", which ONLY requires the child to place the ball and stick style manuscript letter inside a shaded box. Although the kids do learn to form the letters, the letters are sloppy because the DISCIPLINE is not there. An example of a teaching method is the teacher should be starting with cursive, watching the child very closely, be right on top of errors and require and accept only the best from the student. Proper angle of the paper, proper pencil holding, even proper feet placement and how they are sitting in the chair all work together to ensure good writing.

Catherine stated that teachers don't use the old style of teaching anymore. I suppose that is true in most public schools, but there are some teachers that still do teach like the methods of old - anyone who uses the curriculum called CURSIVE FIRST. Manuscript ball and stick writing is not formally taught at all. Formal letters are taught in cursive. It starts with all the clockface letters and moves to the others. There is specific training verbage repeated by the teacher off the back of the cue card, said exactly the same every time.. while the child forms the letter. The teacher is coaching and disciplining while sitting next to the student. Errors are caught immediately so that the student doesn't train himself wrongly or get a chance to write lazy. I taugh my second and third child using this curriculum and I couldn't believe the beautiful penmanship that came out of my young (6 yr old) children - even my boy. This curriculum is easy enough and inexpensive enough that it should be used more often. Also, because Cursive is trained first, the child doesn't have to drill penmanship during second grade (like I had to with my first born who started block letters first.) With so much more writing being required for the other achool subjects during the second and third grade years, not having penmanship practice gives the hand a break and the child's time is freed up to explore reading books and such.

Concentration can be improved with b12, b6,b3, b9 (b complex) liquid drops under the tounge, cod liver oil, lemon Balm and glutamine.DMAE is for memory and attention. Taurine has a calming effect.

Blessings,
Gail

Dear Kellie,
Your daughter is being 7.
I have a girl and a boy and in the second grade, neither one of them were perfectly organized or stellar at prioritizing. Those are skills that come with practice and with time.
I also want to say that I have lots of friends who are teachers and I don't think your daughter's teacher was "labelling" her by saying the paper stuffing is due to laziness. Let's face it, kids in the second grade know what papers go in which folders...they aren't being asked to catalog an entire encyclopedia. It's just much easier to stuff papers in your desk than take a couple extra minutes to put the papers where they belong. She's not the only kid who has ever thought it was just easier to do it that way. A kid who comes home from school, kicks their shoes off and dumps their backpack in the middle of the floor instead of putting them where they belong, is, in a word, being lazy. Lazy is not a bad word. It just means it's something they have to work on. Initially it seems easier to do things the easy way, and as parents we have to help our kids see that the easiest way isn't always the best way. Your daughter has years ahead of her to learn these skills both at home and at school. Spending a couple of minutes doing something in the first place has it done and out of the way and frees up time for other things.
My daughter is super intelligent and she didn't give a flying fig about her penmanship. Plus, she started kindergarten at 4 and she's left handed so her teachers cut her slack. It drove me nuts. I almost didn't care if she got answers right or not, I just wanted to be able to read it. She was incredibly artistic so I knew she could be neat when she wanted to.
What can I say? When it came to her writing, she was lazy. It didn't matter to her. It wasn't a priority. Then, when she was in the 4th grade, everything changed. Her teacher was sending home her weekly work and I couldn't believe my own kid was actually doing it. She has the most beautiful handwriting. It all was sinking in, it was in her all along, and one day...there it was.
One day she associated her handwriting with a reflection of herself and no amount of nagging or making her re-do things flipped that switch.
The other thing I want to say is that all kids worth their salt will try the easy way out. They will. I think it's pretty normal. And I don't think you'd be any happier with a 7 year old who feels pressured to be so meticulous that they have a melt down if they get a spelling paper in the math folder or their capital H isn't perfect.
At 7, they just want to get something done and out of the way. Out of sight, out of mind.
It takes practice, it takes reminding, it takes helping them see the easiest way isn't always the easiest in the long run.
I think your daughter will be fine.
My messy girl is 23 now, neat as a pin, displays her artwork in galleries on top of working. She's completely self-sufficient.
Some things come with maturity and I bet you'll see a big difference in your daughter in the next couple of years.

Best wishes!

I really like When the Labels Don't Fit, by Barbara Probst--it's about understanding our children's temperamental traits and using their strengths to help them meet their challenges. It sounds like your daughter has some issues with pacing, perhaps needs a lot of stimulation, looks for something new to do--I think the book would be helpful to you.

This could so be my post!

My 7 yr old is the same way. We think she rushes through her schoolwork becasue it is too easy for her, so she is bored. We just remind her to take her time and be neat. We also made sure she has manuscript paper available at all time,and she will randomly sit down and practice printing her letters. I also recently started showing her how to write in cursive, and she actually enjoys that more than printing! As for the paper stuffing, I still havnt found a solution, but at home, I just make sure I stay on top of her and toss the papers she doesnt need right away!

Hope that helps!

My mom was an elementary school teacher for 25 years before she retired, and she recommended having my daughter write the Pledge of Allegiance, the Hail Mary, Jingle Bells - basically whatever the child knows well enough to write over and over. It has really helped with my daughter's penmanship. Also, it's worthwhile to ensure that she is writing her letters correctly to begin with. I was dismayed when I realized that in Kindergarten, they no longer teach writing the way I learned it - first the letter "c" and then the letters that can be made from variations of the letter c (d, e, g, o, p, q). Apparently now they just give them a book and make them trace everything in whatever random fashion they wish. So maybe instead of writing the letter d as a c and then a line written top to bottom, perhaps she's starting at the top of the line and circling from bottom to the top of the c - if that makes any sense. In my opinion, if they don't write the letter in the correct manner, it's nearly impossible to have good penmanship.

With regard to the paper hoarding, you may say something like, "I see you are simply too tired to put away your work properly. Until you are well rested enough, we will move your bedtime back to 8:00 so we can be sure you're getting enough rest." If I threaten an early bedtime, I'm always amazed at how my kids will snap to attention! lol

Hi Kellie-
It's a lesson in patience for your daughter, becoming meticulous and purposeful in her ways. Unfortunately, I cannot say how to make a 7 year old more mindful. She is just a baby, still, and she is still learning all the things that make her who she is.
What I can say is strictly from experience with myself. I was not a paper stuffer, but I was a drawer stuffer, a path in the messy room maker, and lazy when it came to homework. I would have rather been doing something outside at any given time of the day. My handwriting was always an experiment, too. The one thing that helped changed that was a gift from my grandmother. She gave me a "teach yourself calligraphy" book and set me on it. It took me a few years to be really interested in it, but by the time I was entering Jr. High, every non girly swirl, every opportunity to write my name, etc., was a labor of art. On top of that, I don't think at 29 years old I have quite mastered the whole paper stuffing thing. I will say that I am much more meticulous about cleanliness, but it is a seriously disciplined effort to make it so. THe best compliment that I ever received, though, has been from my mother. She never thought she would see the day when my place was the cleanest, the neatest, etc.
I will say, allow your daughter to grow, and discipline her gently as far as organization and her effort to communicate through her writing goes. The importance of it is phenominal in the long run, but will take years of practice. She can still be her wild, tomboyish self and learn the importance of organization and its implementation. Good luck, it's a long term goal, and she will reach it eventually with your help and encouragement (my mother- it was a permanent labor of love from her to do this for me over the years).
-E. M

your daughter sounds smart, fine and creative. There is nothing wrong w/her- yet it sounds like she doesn't care about the minutiae- perfectly stacked papers and perfectly neat handwriting. Unfortunately I think you get one or the other in life. I've had bosses who only care about a clean, neat desk and appearance and a perfectly prompt arrival time- and yet the quality of the work leaves something to be desired. And there's the students and the workers who might appear a bit messy and disorganized on the surface, and might run in late at the last second, but they're brilliant doctors and researchers and amazing musicians.

Lined paper and practice, practice, practice. Also remember, some very bright people have really awful handwriting.

Blessings........

Hi Kellie,

Two things to look into: 1) the amount of time your daughter spends watching TV or playing electronic games and 2) whether or not your daughter has food sensitivities.

Here's my story:
My 8 year old daughter had a similar problem with focusing. It's not that she she couldn't do her homework (and penmanship was her least favorite thing to do), it was that she couldn't concentrate and didn't want to. And she constantly whined that her homework was either so hard she was confused or that it was so easy it was boring.

Her teacher said she was easily distracted in class; not really present. She mentioned that this could be the result of watching TV and playing electronic games. She recommended books on tape/cd as a way of engaging her. My daughter now loves books on tape/cd and her reading has improved tremendously. We like to follow the book during the narration.

I also had her tested for food sensitivities this summer (a simple blood test ordered by my naturopathic doctor). She came up highly sensitive to all dairy, eggs and moderately sensitive to wheat, rye (not other glutinous grains) and almonds. So I eliminated all those items from her diet (that's another story in itself).

When school started this fall her teacher said she was present, focused and not easily distracted (she has the same teacher as last year because she goes to a small public charter school with a combined 2-3 classroom). She attributed the change to the reduction in exposure to electronic media/TV and perhaps some to maturation. She didn't think the food sensitivity issue was too important.

After 10 weeks of a total elimination diet I began testing my daughter with foods one by one starting with those she was least sensitive to. Almonds seemed to be fine so I now include those in her diet on an occasional basis. Clarified butter (no milk proteins, just the fat) also seemed to be fine. When I tested her with wheat she got sick and for several weeks her teacher said she was unfocused and easily distracted. Now, after a month of no wheat she is back to being focused and attentive. And the teacher is now convinced that food sensitivities are important. We'll try again from time to time because food sensitivities do change but right now the dramatic improvement in her behavior and attitude is worth the hassle of a wheat-free, dairy-free and egg-free diet.

So you might look into both exposure to electronic media and food sensitivities. It would be a terrible thing for your daughter to be labeled as lazy or worse, and for her to take those labels to heart, when, in fact, her behavior issues could be resolved by a reduction in watching TV or a change in diet. Good luck!

LAZY????? Listen to this.
Just wanted you to know that at that age I started calling my daughter a pet name while doing her homework. I called her "Short-cut Suzy" and I said it lovingly and I appreciated her diligence toward speed. She was a very smart child, and that 2nd grade teacher could not get off her level of perfection to give my child one CHECK PLUS. (Which equaled the A plus symbol in the 2nd grade). My daughter was hurt but she could not fundamentally change her style so I praised her and shared with her my feelings about grades. I told her that her work was beyond excellent and the grading system was so limited that it did not account for her amazing ability to finish quickly. She did not have to write two long sentences when one short one would do. And when she realized she could use her artistic ability in her homework she became a genius. Her book reports become art posters. I would still help her (as an advisor) with her homework and say, "isn't your book report due tomorrow?" She would smile and say yes. Whip out a poster board, grab her colors and in under 10 miunutes she had the most beautiful project done. (I did not spare the praise and I encouraged her to be herself.)
Short cut Suzy went on to love literature and graduate from The University of California at Berkeley with honors. (She now teaches 10th grade English-Literature.)

So don't listen to the teacher who says your child is LAZY. Reinforce your child that she is brilliant and her style of learning is perfect for her. Do not put down or criticize. The school does enough of that. PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE and she will become what you see in her.
GOOD LUCK.

Hi Kellie,

Out of my 5 children, one fits the description of your 7 year old. It's ok. Her gifts and talents are going to be different and won't include neatness - or she'll grow out of it. Either way, it's ok. Focus on what her strengths are now and, as she gets older, have her work on her neatness. It really is best for all kids to be encouraged and uplifted. :)

However, it really sounds like she needs a new teacher. :) No teacher should label any act as 'laziness' !! :)

Merry Christmas to you and your family!

Hi Kellie,

I just wanted to say a couple things real quick. Your comment about being "mindful" really struck a cord in me. At my daughter's elementary school (she's in 2nd grade in a charter public school) they talk about and teach 'mindfullness' to all the kids starting in kindergarden, and I think it is awesome. Of course what they are expected to be mindful of varies per age/class. And my husband and I are both big on teaching midfulness at home too. Being mindful of how you carry yourself, how you treat other people, how you treat your toys, your homework, etc. are all very important to teach and talk about. And when you said you thought 7 might be too young to teach about mindfulness I just had to say I disagree.

but as for your daughter's penmanship here's what I can say about how they do it in my daughter's second grade....they have some time during the day when their writing is more of a "free" writing time -- meaning that the focus is on content, thoughts, ideas, etc. Then there are other times when the attention is on letter writing, sentence structure and punctuation, etc. Maybe your daughter would benefit with some free writing time to just get her thoughts down on the paper, and then other time to be more focused on the actual lettering...just a thought. A good luck!

Your kid sounds like me at that age. To the tee! Even the tomboy part and the teachers calling me lazy! Not true. I'm a total Type A personality, but it comes out in my confidence and creativity/self critique and not so much in my penmanship or whether I keep my papers in order (though papers in order is valuable, and luckily I married a guy who can do that for me.)

I eventually earned a grad degree from a top school and have a great job. Thankfully, they only require signatures from me once in a great while. Because...

My penmanship sucks still to this day, so I learned how to type. I also played piano and violin, so it helped to be able to sightread and play an instrument; consequently, I type very fast.

I do everything fast. I'm also the most productive person on my project management team. I am still very messy (I'm looking around my desk now), but I married a neat freak.

But I'm a pretty happy person as well!! Go with your kid's strengths. If my parents had focused on the fact that my 9s always look like 4s and vice versa or my cursive is so deplorable that to this day I have to print everything in capitals to be understood by the UPS delivery guy, I may have grown to be a less happy/productive individual. I like the idea of inspiring mindfulness, and maybe that's the key? Be mindful of your kid's glorious strengths, and inspire her. My kid is artistic, messy, and fun. She's 4. I cannot wait until a teacher tells me she's lazy, because I will listen very thoughtfully and then tell them to practice mindfulness as well. Good luck!!!

Hello Kellie, I am the mother of 5 children, and the eldest of 10. I say this so you understand I have had many experiances with penmenship. I have to tell you that my husband was a teacher for many years from college to Jr. High and yes elementry school. I have never heard him say it was laziness that made a child be sloppy. He felt that this was degrading and not being part of the solution but making a greater problem. D., felt that it was a matter of learning to be consistant and setting boundries.
I happen to be left handed but people are always surprised because I don't write as a typical left hander. I was taught by my father to write as a right hander with the left hand.
Several of my step sisters were taught to write in "Old English Script". It was fun to make the shapes and curles -- the purpose was to give them a way to be special. You might consider something like this just using her name. We have child with disabilities and his penmenship was horrible unfortunetly he had several teachers that told him not to worry about it because people use computers now.
We had to give him lined paper or those workbooks for children to use wherever we were that he was just sitting. to practice making the letters and connecting them together. It made all the differance. It all comes down to pratice. As for the other part of organization... We had to be pretty firm about organiztion with 5 children. If it wasn't put away then the kids knew it wasn't a threat but fact that mom threw it out. We tried to see what each childs weak points were and focused on ways to help them generally without making a big deal out of it so they felt postive they could be successful. For 2 that couldn't be organized at school- We went into the room when no one was there except the teacher and us and I brought colored folders to put labels that had matching folders at home. This helped have a place for everything and stopped the stuffing of papers into the desk. We also gave a reward for the success. Sometimes it was a sticker or picking of the cereal or a meal out. We appreciated all the efforts and the frustration that the child had to go through to reach the goals. I wish you luck and your child peace of mind. Nana Glenda

I am so sorry that you arehaving these issues! I am sure it can be very frustrating for you and your daughter. One thing I would not allow however, is the teacher labeling my child as "lazy". There could be many underlying issues that cause your daughter to stuff papers into her desk rather than the folders. I would explore this in a gentle way with her and help her learn a way that works best for her. Not everyone does things the same way yet achieve the same result. And as I said before, no teacher would put a label on my child and just give up on her. I would set the teacher down and tell her that if she cannot do anything other than label then you are going to request a transfer to another class. Putting that label on your daughter could follow her for life and all her teachers would start out feeling she is a lost cause. Correct that and then work on her way of dong things. Good luck and your daughters teacher should thank her lucky stars that she is not my son's teacher!

I'm 23 and I'm like that. Please let me know what works :)