Home Daycare Late Pick up Policies and Fees

Updated on January 24, 2011
A.M. asks from Oakland, CA
35 answers

Hi there moms,
I have a few questions about home day cares late pick up policies and fees.
My daycare provider has a policy of $5 per minute late of pick up, which I find a bit excesive.
Is this a normal fee? How much do you pay?
Also, both my husband and I have a big commute from work to the daycare, and although we leave our work places with a 30 min wiggle room for traffic, we still sometimes get in really bad traffic. Just this week we have been 50 min late - which makes a huge late fee of 250 dollars :(
The daycare closes at 5:30, which makes us leave work at around 4 for both of us.
I know holiday traffic seems to be the problem this week - but this late fee has been bothering me a little for a while - although we are late once in a while...

If you have a daycare, how do you deal with traffic - caused lateness? We do all we can to be there on time, but sometimes traffic can be terrible.... (and in this week's case, can make us 50 min late!)...

Just questions, need a little venting...

Thanks,
A

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D.B.

answers from Charlotte on

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2 moms found this helpful
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M.E.

answers from San Francisco on

I remember that my daughter's preschool had a really high penalty for being late - $5 a minute was the fee. The bottom line is that you should NEVER be late. These people are waiting to get on with their lives and they should not be expected to wait for you. The place closes at 5:30. In the non-kids world the employees walk out the door when they close - not wait around for a late parent. I think that the fee is fair.

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M.W.

answers from St. Cloud on

WOW! I would switch daycares.......... I had a late fee in my policy as well. $5 for each 15 MINUTES BUT NEVER charged it. It was really to stress the fact that I NEEDED a phone call if they would be late. And all my parents respected me by calling or asking in the morning if it was okay if they would be a little late. And I always took weather into consideration!

$5 per minute sounds excessive.

More Answers

N.B.

answers from Minneapolis on

Different areas will support different fees. Where I am in MN, even a few blocks away from me, providers charge way less (or teeny more, but I am in the higher range) for their weekly rates..and this includes my late fees.

I understand traffic can cause lateness, but parents need to understand, this is a business for us, and unlike the drycleaners or pet food store, we can not just close the doors at closing time and say no more customers. We still have your children. And likely, we also (especially at this time of year) have children or family obligations to attend... dance recitals or classes/rehearsals, church functions, college classes and tests of our own, and many other varied activities (things where other people are depending on us as well) ..many of which begin 15-30 minutes of our closing time...we have to deal with traffic or snowy roads as well. If you showed up at Target, past closing time, you would not even be able to pay a fee to still go in and grab your prescription or milk or shampoo.

The point, for me anyway, of the high late fees, and super obnoxious strictness of them, is not to punish you finacially, but to make you never ever want to be late, so for you to do every thing you can on your end to not show up at my door late. If you know there will be snowy or holiday type traffic, then I am sorry but you need to leave even earlier. If it happens once in a blue moon, I do excuse it...but if it happens more than once in a season...I do charge. I have a life too and after working 11 hours a day..plus set up, clean up and all the cleaning and laundry and shopping and activity planning I do on my weekend and evening hours... I want to be with my own family, or out doing my own errands. Even if I want to just be sitting at home in my PJs watching a DVD with my family...that is my time to do that with.

I am just trying to show the other side here. This is a business, albeit one that creates very personal relationships, but it is still a business. If the hours are this much of an issue, perhaps its just not a good fit, unfortunately.

I wish you luck!

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D.F.

answers from St. Louis on

OK, as a provider here's our side. Some parents take off an extra hour for lunch to hang with girlfriends, then can't pick their children up on time. Or take the day off ( their right totally) while they bring the kids to daycare. Then get "BUSY" and lose track of time. As a provider we are still parents and have family's, children who have evening events. I have in the past made exceptions to parents being late I understand about traffic,accidents, your boss grabing you as you are trying to walk out the door. But all to often these are the same parents who if I forgive once they will take advantage of the situation. I ask that they call me if their going to be late, if not then I WILL CHARGE, or if I have somewhere to go I will just take the child with me and they can pick up from where ever I am. One time no one called I had the children to 9 p.m. at night. See if you can offer your sitter a flat rate of $25.00 per week for an extra 1/2 hr a day, if she knows she may be willing to work with you. Unfortunatly it's the parents who take advantage who will spoil it for the good ones. I have soooooo many stories of parents not picking up. Once MOMMY went out for happy hr. with co-workers showed up late and drunkner than a skunk. Once the parents met up at the Hockey game when mom asked dad how babies day was. Dad said I thought you picked her up 2 1/2 hours latter Grandma shows up totally imbarresd.

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M.D.

answers from Pittsburgh on

Many years ago I worked in a daycare center and yes, they had a late fee. If you were 5 minutes late, there was no charge. If you were more than 5 minutes late is was $5.00 a minute for every minute you were late after that. I was usually the one who closed the center, so it was me who was stuck there until some one came to get the child. In most cases, I never charged the parent, because I never had any one more than 15 minutes late. However, it was irritating that I was no longer getting paid by my employer, yet had no choice but to stay until the parent arrived. I understand traffic, but I had a life to attend to also. Perhaps you may have to look into a daycare that is open later or one that is closer to your work, so that the late fee is not an issue.

3 moms found this helpful

D.B.

answers from Detroit on

We used to take my son to a daycare facility....they charged the same late fees. They truly only enforced it though on those that were repeat offenders. They closed at 6 and by a parent being late, staff had to stay, lights had to be on, etc and that cost THEM money...so they had to off set it.

In regards to an at home daycare....my mom ran one (licensed) and she had two parents who were NOTORIOUS for coming late every day (and also wanting to stay around at that late hour and chit chat about non-related kid things). She imposed these fees and, amazingly, those parents found a way to be on time, get the info on their kids and leave. With an at home daycare, by being late or hanging around, parents are now cutting in to regular home time for that person. In my mom's case, it was that hour she would have to get dinner going/homework for her Grandkids going/running around to be done that she'd never take her daycare kids to do.

Just think how you would feel if your boss required you to stay late every couple of days (routinely) and NOT get paid for it.

Again, if you don't do this very often or have bad weather that they realize will put you in a longer commute, they will likely work with you. Talk to them....call when you know you'll be running late. These two things will go a long way.

Also, just an FYI....in most licensed daycares (whether in home or not) the state will mandate a max number of hours a child can be in daycare. In ours (in Michigan) it was 10 hours max (i.e. I dropped my son off at daycare at 7:00 a.m....so I needed to pick him up by 5:00 p.m. or be deemed "late") This prevented our daycare parents from dropping kids off when they opened (6:00 a.m.) and not coming to get their child until 6:00 p.m. (usually making pit stops at the grocery store/clothing store/etc before picking up kids) So if parents are running over that 10 hr time limit...the facility can be fined if the state reviews their time keeping. So this is also a way for many daycares to keep parents from putting them in a costly situation.

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C.A.

answers from San Francisco on

How would you like it if you thought you were done for the day but your boss said that you had to stay for an undetermine amount of time?

Though it is a lot of money, I think it is appropriate. She is basically 'encouraging' you to get there on time. It is certainly not her fault that there is traffic.

I am a teacher. During the summers I used to run Reading and Writing workshops. For the most part, parents were able to get their children there on time and retrieve them on time. I did have one family who just couldn't follow the rules. They arrived an half hour early, used the wrong door to enter, their father dropped them off without checking to make sure I knew they were there, etc.... Since this behavior was consistent, we had to renegotiate a new schedule and weekly payment. I am sure that the dad thought, 'what's the big deal with my kids being there a 'little' before?" However it was a huge deal because I used that time to finish preparing and since I was legally responsible for them, not knowing that they were 'waiting' on my doorstep was down right dangerous.

You are totally inconveniencing her everytime you are late. At least with the fees, she is compensated.

2 moms found this helpful

E.K.

answers from Minneapolis on

Our last day care provider had a $1-a-minute policy. She said if you are late without calling to notify me, I will call the parents' cell phones at exactly 5:01. If she could not reach the parents and they had not shown up by 5:15, she called the parents' emergency contacts. By 5:30....She stated (tho I don't know if it ever came to this) she'd call CPS or the police.

We were family friends and we thought the policy was strict but fair. Here's how I think about it: Day cares are being run out of someone's HOME. Their family should be able to enjoy their home and their mother...Have both all to themselves -- As soon as business hours are closed.

As for traffic/weather related lateness...We always chose providers who were within 5-10 miles of one of our work locations. Viola! Problem solved.

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S.T.

answers from Chicago on

I have owned my home daycare for 8 years. I do have a late policy, but not that excessive. I charge $2/15 minutes for pre-arranged late pick up and $5/15 minutes for non-arranged. I have only ever institued this late pick up once (for a not being pre-arranged). I just don't have parents that pick up late. If they are going to be late, even in the morning for drop off, I require a courtsey call to let me know. And I remind them how their inconsistiences in their schedule can affect their child, other children in the daycare (some kids know they go home after other kids leave), and how it affects me. However, when the parents have been getting later and later, I just remind them of their contracted times and give them a written note with my cost for overtime. In terms of traffic caused lateness, from a daycare provider point, I'm not sure that it matters what the cause is for being late. Sorry, but I think that's the way most providers look at it. Now, with snow coming up, I do ask the parents to try and leave work a little early to be here as close to pick up time as possible. But it's Chicago. Sometimes we're going to have the kids up to two hours later. That's just it. I think if you have a fantastic provider and a great relationship with them, they will be open to watching your child later (15-20 minutes). I would probably be upset with 50 minutes late too, but it's the nature of traffic. You may want to look for another provider during Christmas break. If this situation continues it will only create stress for both of you. Eventually the relationship will be tarnished. You don't want that for your child, and I'm sure your provider doesn't either.

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G.B.

answers from Tulsa on

When my parents were late I charged then the same as yours. So, with the invention of cell phones if they got caught in traffic they called someone to pick the kids up. A friend, grandparent, neighbor, anyone on their approved list so they could avoid the issues you are talking about.

If I had not seen or heard from a parent by 15 minutes after closing I was on the phone calling contacts to come get them. They were on the approved pick up list so it was approved by the parents. I could not call child services or anything like that because I was a responsible adult that the parents had left their child in my care. The Police could not take the kids. The kids were in a safe, protected environment so they were not at risk.

I think you need to make some choices. Select a child care provider closer to your work, hire someone to care for your child in your home with the expected bonus for overtime, think about becoming a stay at home mom, you can save tons on clothing and child care plus travel expenses etc....I think it was Dr. Dobson or whoever that guy is that teaches on Christian radio about financial affairs. He said a family can save almost the entire salary if one parent decides to stay at home and care for the kids.

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K.B.

answers from Tulsa on

Here, it is $5 for first minute then $1 each additional minute after that.
NO exceptions. They enforce it and if it is not paid with the regular bill, your child can't stay.

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B.O.

answers from Portland on

You need to be on time to pick up your child, period. We are not talking about picking up a pizza:) This is a child you are talking about, which requires a level of support staff and teachers present in order to keep the daycare certified. The fee is reasonable. I am a parent, and I am also a teacher, so I do understand the frustration on both sides. You need to accomplish being on time to pick your child consistently....change jobs...change daycare...have a back-up person...work it out somehow. You are responsible for getting your child, the child care provider should not be responsible for your child outside the hours of operation because you are consistently running late because you cannot budget your time realistically and efficiently.(which includes making adjustments for being stuck in traffic)
Where I work, it is a dollar a minute for every minute you are late after the official close of the center. After 60 minutes, we call the police or CPS to collect the child, because legally we are not licensed to provide any type of care after that time. I am sure the fee at your center is in the contract/agreement you signed.

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H.W.

answers from Portland on

I agree with many of the previous posters. I have a half-day preschool, and rarely have late parents, and this is because most of them don't work. (That's why their child is half-day). When I started my school, I asked a mentor about charging late fees and she suggested I do what she does: don't charge a late fee, but do talk to parents who have a problem with being on time and to explain how important it is to the kids that parents pick up promptly. I went this route with my current business and haven't really had any problems.

I also know from past experience working at a daycare that there are parents that have been HORRIBLY late, an hour or more, and not because of weather or flat tires, but simply because they were so self-absorbed and poor communicators with their spouses. These are the parents that we'd literally have to track down to come pick up their child. They seemed to have the attitude that since I was "already there" that it wasn't a big deal to stay late for their convenience.. One parent, who worked literally two blocks away, wouldn't close his bookstore to come pick up his kid, and told me I had to wait for his wife, who wouldn't be coming for another hour. Instead, I walked his son to the bookstore and handed him off to the father. (It was 7:30 by this time and we closed at 6.) And this father fought the late fee tooth and nail. Our spineless director never got my money for me (it was supposed to go directly to the teachers who stayed late) but fortunately, their family went on to plague some other daycare. Nice kid, terrible parents.

It may be that your provider has had too many of these sorts of parents and has decided this is the way to make it work for her, so she's not furious with repeat-late parents. Just some insight....

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M.B.

answers from Los Angeles on

I charge $15 for up to every half hour late. I give a grace period of 5-10 mins because of traffic. I would find another daycare provider... thats is excessive!

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C.J.

answers from Dallas on

Most of the child care centers my children have been in have had a similar policy and charges, but typically they don't start charging immediately (meaning a few minutes wiggle room). When I knew I was going to be late, I would just call ahead and tell them I left, but am stuck,e tc. and most times they didn't even charge because is was infrequent.
I would talk to your child care provider and better understand her policy and wiggle room, etc. If she is h*** o* the rule, you may need to make the difficult decision of unenrolling your child.

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S.O.

answers from Chicago on

When I first started family daycare I would charge $5 for every 15 minutes. I understood parents may be late due to traffic, weather,etc.. I did ask that they would call if they were going to be late because I sometimes had places I needed to be in the evening. I never understood why the center I worked at before doing family daycare charged a $1 a minute, well I soon found out. Parents would be late all the time!!! They would casually walk in and hand me the $5, $10 whatever it was without even saying they were sorry for being late or calling. Some would even admit to being at the store. I am sorry but that is not a reason for being late. I had one mom that was late at least 10 minutes everyday and she told me it was no big deal. It was to me. Everytime she was 10 minutes late was 10 minutes less I had to devote to my own children. So I finally changed my late fee to $20 every 15 minutes. It was in the contract so parents knew when they started they would be responsible for a late fee. I never actually made the parents pay it though. It was more of a back-up when parents would start being late too often. I would sometimes send a letter home telling the parent if they were going to continue being late I would need to start charging them a late fee and I would also tell them how many days they were late in the last month. Sometimes I think they just didn't realize how often they were late, plus if every family was late on a regular basis it could end up being everyday. Some families I would give that extra 15 minutes but that was something we talked about and agreed upon. It was not something they just expected. It was also understood that since I was not charging them the late fee that the few days I closed early would not be subtracted from my pay. It was everyone helping each other out. Did you agree to the late fee when you started? If so explain to her that you did not realize it was going to be a problem and you are sorry about being late but you cannot afford $250 additional each week in childcare. Ask her if there is any way she could help you out. I hope you can work this out with your provider.

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M.C.

answers from Washington DC on

My son was in a private daycare. They charged $1 a minute. My new in-home daycare doesn't charge unless its a large amount of time (she closes at 6. don't get there til 7.. that kind of thing).

My friend's son was in private daycare where they charged $1 a minute. We got stuck in an ice storm. Left work at 3p, should've been to daycare by 4p. Didn't get to the area til 10p! She had to call a friend to go pick up the son so she wouldn't be charged. The friend got there with just minutes to spare. There were however 20 families who weren't able to get there until 930p or so. Each one was sent a bill for $200+ that you had to pay within a week or your child couldn't come.

My suggestion would be to try and find a daycare that is closer to work.

M.

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K.B.

answers from Milwaukee on

This seems a little much most childcare and school late pick-up fees start around $2, the ritzy places $5 BUT there is usually a 10-15 minute grace period before they start to charge a late fee. If you have agreed to the policy by signing a contract there is not much you can do besides finding a new place that is closer to you or husband.

Maybe find a place that has more wiggle room or more understand. There are far and few between but my mom is a preschool teacher and runs the before/after care and is understand to the parents who do get stuck in traffic. There really is only one or two children who's parents truly are affected by traffic and my mom is there till 6pm or later with them, there is a $5 fee per minute late fee BUT she only has them pay $40 a week for the extra time. This is a Christian school and my mom is VERY caring and understanding.

Remember that these people also have lives, families and other responsibility. So when a place closes at 5:30 and you are late even due to traffic it does cut into THEIR plans for closing at 5:30. I would really look into a place that is closer to you or your husband that might reduce your frustration about this issue and reduce the cost of the late fees.

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J.K.

answers from Sacramento on

HI Paola,
My late pick up fee is $1.00 per minute, but I have never enforced it... I did write a letter to families reminding them of what the policy was because I was having more late pickups without calls and without apologies. The late pick ups essentially stopped.

I ask that families call if they are going to be late for any reason. I don't like late pick ups for 3 reasons. One reason is that I feel like my time is not respected... for example, one of my Moms came late because she "fell asleep." Another reason is because I have a schedule for daycare kids and my own. Since I take kids on a part-time schedule as well as full-time, late pick ups before the end of the day can cause disruption for what we plan to do with kids who are here later.The bigger reason though, is that I have children ready for pickup because the leaving care transition can be as hard as the dropping off one. So if I get little John ready and a parent is running 20 minutes behind and doesn't call, that can be upsetting for really no reason. Of course traffic and other problems happen and I understand that completely, but I like a phone call, so I can at least let the child know.

$5 per minute is excessive in my opinion... Our son went to a preschool that closed at 5:00 and if my husband (who worked about 3 miles away) hit every stop light he'd be late by a few minutes. Their policy was a $5.00 fee for every 10 or 15 minutes I think...

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M.H.

answers from Dallas on

My daughter's preschool charges $1 per minute....They close at 6pm so if you haven't picked up by 6:30 they call the police dept. (At least its in the policy...I've never been late so not sure how strict they are on that).

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J.C.

answers from Anchorage on

My sons school charges $1 per minute. $5 does seem high, but that is there policy and you knew that when you signed the contract. At this point you need to either be sure you are on time, or find a new daycare that is more forgiving about this. I fully understand why they charge though. If they did not people would think they could just be late all the time, and that means all the workers at the center would be late getting home as well.

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J.S.

answers from Chicago on

Well, I run a home daycare in Illinois & I think that amount is crazy!! I give parents a 15min "grace period", and then after that, I charge $5 for every 15 minutes they are late. HOWEVER, if they call me and let me know, especially in the winter weather, or during rush hour, I am most likely to forgive it then. If it starts becoming a routine or a habit to be running late, then I start to actually enforce it.
I think your provider sounds a bit greedy with that charge!! But, that's just my opinion!

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J.G.

answers from Dallas on

When I was looking for daycare here in Texas I found some daycares that give a 10 minute grace period and after that is $1 per minute. To be honest $5 per minute is a bit excessive. Is there any way they can work with you on that late fee, I mean $250 for just 50 minutes is insane!

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A.G.

answers from San Francisco on

I would suggest finding a day care closer to your job. I know it would make a communte for your little one but it's time with you ore your husband to sing songs in the car or tell stories. That was the easiest solution for me. My day care is pretty flexible if it's just a few minutes and not often they just ask that you call to let them know.

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K.E.

answers from Buffalo on

That is purposteous. The daycare I used to have charged 415 for each 30 min. and if you called and gave a heads up (he I am stuck is bumper to bumper traffic I am on my way) and it is not daily that this happens sometime they would wave some or all.

I agree find another daycare.

T.W.

answers from Milwaukee on

Wow! That is an excessive price for being late due to traffic. I own an Inhome Daycare out of my home, and if the parent calls to say that they are running late because of traffic and will be there as soon as they can I dont charge them at all. All I can say is WOW! :(

L.M.

answers from Dover on

Don't know about there in CA but her in DE it can range from $1-$5 per minute. Sounds like you need to work something else out with the provider or have a back up you can call in case you are running late.

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C.B.

answers from San Francisco on

I know that my former day care had a $5.00 per minute late fee policy. I've heard of several others that have that same policy as well. They do it so that parents don't do things like go shopping or visiting before picking up their children. these are people with lives as well and they need to get home to fix dinner for their family just like you do. I think I would find a day care closer to work (you really both work 1-1/2 hours away from your daycare!) or find a job closer to the day care. There is really not much you can do other than that or one of you change your work hours so you get off a little earlier. If I had been the daycare provider on the day you were 50 minutes late, I would have been extremely upset with you! no one likes to be delayed by almost an hour at the end of the day!

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S.T.

answers from New York on

My kids were in daycare up to 9 yrs ago. Ata that time they did have a late policy of $1 a minute after closing time. It's designed to prevent the habitually late parents from always being a little later. I was always good to my daycare providers. I would try to give them anice cash gift at Christmas ($50 each for the primary ladies - $25 for the others) It cost about $250 for us at Christmas- but they were really good to my kids. They almost never charged me for the late fee - and when they did they'd round it way down (if I got stuck in traffic and called them - instead of $30 they'd suggest $10 - I'd give them $15). My office was about 25 minutes from the daycare - but even in the worst traffic I never was later than a half hour and that was only once. Usually it was 10 - 15 minutes. Once I was stuck in a blizzard and it took be 3 hours to get there. My son was the last one there by an hour. The young lady said - don't worry about it - you couldn't do anything about it. I brought her $50 the next day just for being so nice. It was tight and it did cost alot but my kids were worth it.

The reason they imposed the late fee was there were a few parents who were always late - at first 20 mintues, then a half hour. If it had been a very rare occasion they'd have let it pass but when it became habitual it wasn't fair to the day care provider.

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G.B.

answers from San Francisco on

$250 is absolutely outrageous! I don't care what the daycare owners are saying here- that is completely ridiculous. For the ones who've said "how would you like it if you had to stay overtime w/o getting paid"? Well, 1st of all, that happens all the time to people and 2nd of all, noone who stayed an hour late would expect $250! Maybe a world premier neurosurgeon but come on!!!! I must offer another perpective as a mom of 4, I sort of unintentionally pulled my daughter out of preschool this yr. and it's the best thing I ever did. I literally am the only mom I know who doesn't have their kids in a daycare or preschool- and it's amazing how much $ I save, how I don't have to deal w/some of this outrage or feeling helpless in situations like this- I realize this probably isn't an option for someone who has to work full time, but I would at least try to find another daycare that has a more laisse faire attitude- like a 15 min. grace period and a policy (but only for those parents that take advantage...)- from the responses here, you can tell those providers who have their heart in the right place- maybe there's someone here who can help you - but in any case, you HAVE to find someone to pick up your kid- local, close to daycare- you can call if running late- a friend, a relative, someone you hire, best of luck!!!

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D.S.

answers from San Francisco on

Paola, I have had a Day Care and even when I am watching children now I have set rules as it is my work day as well. She is running a business and just as you have set boundries she needs to have hers. She most likely doesn't take breaks and a firm lunch hour and has a desire to get out "of her office" for doc. appts etc. I think her late charge is a firm way of not being taken advantage of. If you are going to be stuck in traffic then leave earlier or make arrangements for the child to stay later and pay for that. My granddaughter's daycare is firm about parents that are consistanly late and will raise the rates 20.00 for the week if they are late with pick up as well as the daily charge. But 1 hour makes alot of her personal time wasted and that is just not fair to her. When you can't pick up the child who is your back up? I live 2 hours from my granddaughters day care and once when the parents were going to be 1 hour late and called the sitter- the sitter said NO so I went to get her and did on time.
This is again a business not a personal thing and giving respect to the provider and her personal time. You might also consider that if the Caregiver has hired help she has to pay them extra to stay so her costs are more, and if she has her own children then time is stolen from them and needs to be paid for. I actually had one family that made me change my rules about how children were picked up because they wanted to come in and "chat about thier day, famiily situation etc." so I made it clear that my time was being abused and all the children were then picked up at thedoor vs. parents just coming in ans sitting down . Hope this helps

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S.H.

answers from Honolulu on

That is what a lot of Daycare places charge.
Even Preschools.

Maybe talk with the Daycare owner.

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C.P.

answers from San Diego on

Hi,

I am a childcare provider myself. Most daycare providers charge $5 for the late fee plus $1/min. So, if the daycare closes at 6pm and the parent arrives at 6:01pm, the parent would need to pay $6. For me, it's been very difficult to charge late fees to the parents. However, I feel like it's only fair for me to charge late fees as I have employees that I have to pay for staying overtime. Honestly, I don't even care about the money. It's just that I have a family that I would rather spend time with after the daycare closing time. If charging late fees will help me avoid the parents to pick-up late, I guess I really need to be strict on my late pick up policy. In your case though, I would recommend that you look for another care provider that closes at 6 or even later. This way you don't have to deal with your provider's late fees. Good luck!

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H.L.

answers from Cleveland on

The fees are pretty standard. I have my daughter at a daycare 2 minutes from work, however. Love it as I can go see her during the day, if I forget a bottle, can go feed her, and I never have to worry about being late. There is also another pediatric office not too far, so if she becomes ill can pick up soon and take her to the doc.

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