Help... the Boys Are Fighting

Two things about boys:
They need to be told they are respected (this goes for bog boys, too: )
And they need time with their DADDY.

Boys who don't get these things WILL act out in anger. And they many times truly do not even know what is wrong with them.

While I do feel there should always be consequences for actions (dscipline, etc.) and it should be very consistent...
I also feel strongly that we should always as parents try to get to the bottom of what's going on in their hearts and minds.

You can amd probably should create consequences for their handling their emotions very wrongly--hurting eachother, and disrespecting you and your home. (Along with going over correct responses to their emotions). But their father needs to be in on this. He needs to spend quality time with them.
I don't know how possible that is for you all, but it needs to happen. Now. If there is no time and communication (and whatever makes each one feel individually loved)this will likely only get worse.

Both you and their father might try tellig them- as often as you can- how much you respect them for....(talent, action, etc., of choice). They will thrive from this. Also, if there are not healthy boundaries in place...or if the schedule has gotten a little off, whip it back into place. This will help them to feel safe and secure. Another thing--I know it sounds cheesey..but sitting the boys down and goading them to say what they respect about the other one.
ANY time a male of any age is acting up, they usually are feeling disrespected. It, for them, is just like love is for a female.

It may be that you and your husband need to have a long talk (perhaps in the presence of a counselor) about his work hours and lack of time with the boys. Perhaps there is a compromise that can be reached..?

My children went through this, also, when their father was working very long hours and barely saw them. (I was acting out, too! I missed my husband and didn't enjoy being a single mother while married!) While many are in this predicament these days and cannot help it, and did not choose it...it is yet remarkable to note the difference when a father is present--truly present to his family. Emotinoally available, and physically available when at all possible.

I pray things will be worked out for the best interest of all. I know first-hand how difficult this is for a family.

Blessings,
Hs

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It is normal. My sister and I were that age difference, and that close. At times we would go through stages where we would fight all the time. The age differences put them at much different stages in development, and there will be times that it just doesn't mesh well with the other one. Let them work it out, but keep an eye on them as well. Sometimes my sister would destroy something of mine, or hit me, our fighting would get so mad. Of course Mom came to my aid. And sometimes (or so I am told :) I would hit myself and blame it on my sister. Try not to interfere to much without letting it escalate. Let them know you are there if they need you, but not as a way to get the other one punished.
Don't worry, the times that they will fight won't last to terribly long... at least until they are teenagers!
Good Luck!

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Are you a book reader? Anything by this author is very helpful and easy to read: http://www.amazon.com/Siblings-Without-Rivalry-Children-T...

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M.: Just wanted to let you know that I have two nephews, the exact same age as your boys. And they do the exact same thing--so don't feel like your boys are out of the norm! I think it's the age, plus, it's a "brother thing"! If you seperate my nephews from one another, they are perfect little angels, but when they are together, WOW--the fight! So, just hang in there, know that it's normal--and they will have some great "fight stories" to tell when they get older! Plus, they might fight one another, but let someone else mess with one of them and watch the other come to the rescue, FAST! I guess it's just a weird way of "bonding" that brothers do. My sons still have their fights and they are 22, 18 & 15--but they are so close! The older they get the better it will get, I promise--just hang in there and let them work it out! If it gets too bad, punish them by seperating them, putting them in a corner or making them take a "time out"!

Let me know how it goes, and good luck!

God Bless,

S. Woodall

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Hi there: When the fighting gets so loud that nothing is accomplished then maybe each fighter in his own corner. And maybe you should stop by the local library for the latest self help book. Sounds too like the two miss their dad. There are charts for choirs. Maybe you need a chart or documentation for unsportman like behavior. Sibling rivalary is common. Parent needs to identify the cause. lots of luck and an angle hug.

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i do understand about you issues with your two boys. i am a young nana. and my two oldest grand daughters whom at the time were 4 and 5 years old, were like that. the 5 year old was very aggressive and would scream in the 4 year olds face and push her down and hit her. the 4 year old started fighting back.
the best thing that worked was; taking time and talking to one at a time to get them to calm down and talk to them both together and try to find out why they get angry like that with each other.
the 5 year old said; she wants some time to herself. believe that at 5 thinking like that. maybe the boys need thier own space. if possible thier own rooms. they are forming into thier own personalitys and ways about them as indivisuals. and think about talking to a child's counceler. good luck. also think about playing games with them and reading stories. make thier time together as possitive as possible. and when dad has time off, maybe go to a family outing together. again good luck, cc in okla.

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Do you have the option of having them in seperate rooms? I have found that even a night or two of seperating my 5 and 7 year old makes them "miss" each other and realize that they really do want to get along.

You could also try positive reinforcement - 1 afternoon without arguing equals a special treat at night, etc...(we save leftover sparklers from 4th of July and if the kids have behaved throughout the day, we let them do a sparkler in our backyard right before bed...)

Best of luck, M.! Bless you for "going it alone.." I know how that goes! :)

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SIBLINGS WITHOUT RIVALRY (recommended below by Ami), advises separation, as I recall. I think threatening, and if necessary enforcing, separation is good because it lets them know you care without your having to take sides (if it's a matter of making one sleep on the couch, they can take turns), and also a separation may remind them that they really like each other after all.

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Hi M., I have to say that you've gotten a lot of good responses and I hope you know by now that this is a normal stage and doesn't mean your boys will hate each other forever. I do have a little different response, however. Sometimes kids need to be taught some basic communication skills, they don't always pick it up on their own. I think you might have to set some ground rules - you must TALK to each other; you must try to see the other's side and you must LISTEN to each other. it is pretty natural for big bro to get home and want to play with toys little bro has been able to play with all day and little bro just wants to play with big bro he has missed all day. a little space for the oldest might be needed and if you don't want him to physically shove his little bro out of the room, give him some help thinking of other ways to accomplish this. also, back him up. just remind him that little bro is also an important play mate and one he doesn't want to lose. they will work out their own balance, but you may have to give a little guidance too. hope this helps!

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M.
Is there anyway that they can be moved to separate rooms? That may be one way that the fighting can quite. But if not this is normal for children. You can try setting limits for both of them. Have a sit down before the fighting starts and tell them that they next time that they start fighting , yelling, or arguing with each other that this is what is going to happen. Example the 1st time they will loose their outside time with their friends, 2nd strike their loose their play time outside with their friends and they are going to bed no matter what time it is. This is just some things that you can use and I'm sure you can think up some of your own. The only things is you have to mean what you say and you have to follow through on what you say or it will not work. Just a little help I hope.
T.

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Let them work it out as much as possible. Lay down the rules that they cannot yell or use mean language, or of course physically hurt each other. Then they have to work it out. If they don't follow the rules, punish them as you would if they treated you that way, perhaps a privilege revoked, grounding, or toys removed. They are both responsible for keeping peace, so if it escalates they both get punished; this is because you will not be listening in to mediate and know who said what. You will not always be there to help them with their issues with each other, or with other kids, so they need to figure out for themselves how to do it. this is a hands off management approach, so don't interfere except to keep it from becoming bloody. It will help them and you to not micromanage their issues.

Also, stay removed from the conflict. When they yell, do not yell yourself. I like to whisper to get my point across. It is amazing how quickly yelling quits when you whisper against it. They have to stop yelling to hear you, and their instinct is to do that. Yelling just make more yelling.

there could be some "counseling" sessions, where you discuss the conflicts they have and how to solve them. But I find that if I ask my older daughter to solve the problem, then she can really come up with good solutions. As we say in our house, don't cry about your problems, solve them.

Figure out rewards for solving their problems, like a calendar to keep track of peaceful days. After an interval of uninterrupted peaceful days they can have a special treat, hopefully an evening out to a movie or for pizza.

Having a sibling is the perfect opportunity to learn relationships. Give them the tools and leeway to make this relationship work and they will continue to have many successful relationships with friends and girlfriends and you.

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I had 3 boys, and the youngest two went through that stage, but I think I out smarted them! When I had had enough, I marked off a "ring" outside and put them in it. I told them that if they were going to fight, it would be outside only, and they would let me know, so I could watch! I told them that there would be NO playing around, because I wanted to see some "real" blood and black eyes! Of course, I knew that I would have NEVER allowed them to hie each other, but THEY didn't know that! It worked!!! They are now in their 30's and I don't guess they have ever had a cross word since that day!

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Mother of 4 boys here - I am with your friend on this one. They need to learn to sort out their disagreements on their own. Fighting with siblings helps them learn about relationships and helps them grow and become better adults that can sort out disagreements.

My boys fight and squabble atleast once a day with each other and it is soon sorted out between them. I only ever step in if they start hitting each other or if there is blood.

Just walk away and try to ignore it - tell them to keep the noise down because they are disturbing you.

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Our son and daughter went through this for a short bit and here's what I tried and it worked (yea!). I sat down with both of them privately and told them how much I loved them and their brother/sister. That they were both huge parts of me and it hurt ME so terribly when they fought because it's like they are hurting something that I love so much. I asked them to think of me when they are mad at each other and try harder to get along so my feelings wouldn't get hurt. I also told them I wouldn't let a stranger or even their friends say mean things to them and I couldn't let them do it to each other also. They both have kind hearts and I guess they cared enough about my feelings. I got lucky and it worked AND I made it all about ME! How often do we moms get to do that !?!?!

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Hi M.,
It has been my observation that when an older child fights with a younger child there is a hint of jealousy for the mother's attention. My advice is to give your older one some special one on one attention and tell him how important it is that he act like a a good big brother. Point out all the wonderful things about being the oldest.
The 4 year old gets to stay home with sweet cozy mom while the 7 year has to go out into the mean cruel world of pre-school. Maybe someone is picking on him at school and he is trying out the bullying on his little brother. Make sure that if the culprit is the little one that he goes into time out.The older one will not feel that everything that goes wrong is all his fault.
It is important for you to remain cool and calm.
And above all....try not to play favorites.

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My sister and I are three years apart, shared a bedroom until the day I got married, and we fought like cats and meaner cats when we were growing up. It's part of having siblings.

My mom would tell us to take it outside because she didn't want to hear it, and would not get involved unless there was blood or destruction of property. My sister and I are now both grown and laugh about the stupid things we fought over when we were kids.

As long as no one is being injured, and they're not destryoing each other's stuff, let them work it out. If the yelling is too much for your ears and/or nerves, close their door, or tell them to go outside.

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Yes you have to let them work it out. If it get's physical, due to the age difference, you have to step in of course, otherwise it is a pecking order thing and you as a parent are not part of that. You send them out in the yard when they start yelling, even if you have to physically escort them out. Because a home is for inside voices and once you enter the fray you are no longer a parent but a participant. If it is better for YOU to take a break outside then do that. But do not argue with children and do not punish them for doing what is basically a completely normal part of siblinghood. Your husbands very demanding job? Helping teach his son's a better way to 'get along' is a part of that job I would assume. This cannot all be left up to you alone. His input will help them to sort out some of the behavior and learn what is effective and what isn't. Another thing to consider is to change the room sharing situation if at all possible. You know how those 'older kids' start wanting their privacy and independence. Doesn't make them love the sibling less, but a little less frustration on both ends, theirs and yours.
Best of Luck
B.

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M.
Some is normal sibling issues, some is probably the age gap. You probably have one in school and he is really growing up and thinks his brother is a baby, compared to his school friends. Is it possible for them to have separate rooms? If not, put as much division in the room to let them each have their own space. They each need to learn to respect each other and each others things and still try to keep a closeness as brothers. Sometimes they just have to work it out between themselves. Do not worry too much, a lot of this is just NORMAL.

Good Luck
Let us know how it progresses
S. Miller

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Try to let them work it out but if it is driving you crazy take theri stuff away. Take their video games, or any other toys that they both love. That should help nip it in the bud. I would also try talking to them seperatly to see what the big deal is. Your older one may have just hit that point where he needs mroe space than a 4 year old does. He is getting to really be a big boy and probably doesnt want his little brother to mess with his stuff all the time. Maybe if you help to get him the space he needs (take little bro away from room a while so big bro can play alone ect) he would be more responsive to you asking them to stop.

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If you are familiar with Springdale, my advice would be to check out the free parenting classes with Dee Wright and the Jones Center for Families. She teaches a course based on Phelan's 1-2-3 Magic, which you can get a copy at the library. He, or the class, helps parents establish a framework in which the kids learn to self-monitor their own behavior by having suitable consequences for unwanted behavior (for example, you could establish that they lose a certain privilege every time they fight). I used to make mine sit at the kitchen table until they both agreed they were out of 'time-out' - you'd be amazed how many times one would stay there longer just because they felt the other one needed a time-out!

mine are a little young for me to have taken this advice personally, but a friend of mine tells her boys, "until you learn to treat each other like best friends, you can't see your frineds." it might work, and it puts the "work" on them.