Gay Pride

(1) Aside from the concern about your extended family being rude about homosexuality, WHY are you taking children to events that focus on a sexual preference?

It's one thing to be adamant with our children about respecting all people and never judging anyone based upon one characteristic, but it's quite another to have to explain to children what sexual preference means in the first place. If you don't care what other people do in their bedrooms, why are you trying to impose a big show about other people's choices of bedroom practices upon children?

You're not going to be able to convince many of us that children would really enjoy attending this sort of event, no matter what cause was being represented. YOU could support any group of people any way you want without bringing your children into it.

(2) WHY are you telling this to people who you know will disapprove?????

Get them to shush by keeping them unaware. Most of us do some things our families disagree with, and we don't throw it in their faces if we don't want to defend it.

If you want to teach your children to respect all people, it is counter productive to provoke people who will speak against a group of people that you'd rather have your children accept. Your children will eventually ask why other family members speak in such derogatory terms, and no answer you give will make your children truly 100% believe your open-minded view is the only right way to think. In fact, if you are in the habit of throwing it in your children faces, they may rebel against the very same principles you are trying to promote--just like you did with your parents' principles that were frequently thrust upon you as a child.

Don't you think your parents were just as zealous about their beliefs as you are about yours? And don't you think they believe/d that their views are the true and best way? Just like you believe your views are the true and best way.

Will history repeat itself when your children provoke you by taking their kids to Christian rallies and then making a point of mentioning it to you? :)

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Response to L.'s update:

"To Diane S.
I don't remember saying anything about me NOT being a Christian. I think it would be fabulous for my kids to take their kids to a parade that focuses on God's LOVE, not on people being so judgemental. What I said was that I stopped going to Church because hypocracy and HATE were being preached."

You've made it clear that you hated being preached at, and have rebelled against that by not attending church as an adult.

Many, many churches are not "hypocritical, hate-preaching" places. Yet, you've turned your back on ALL of them. Would you advocate people turning their backs on ALL gay people, just because a few act offensively?

There are worship services all over town every Sunday (and other days of the week) that celebrate God's love and urge people to leave the judgment to God. Read a bible. It makes it clear that people are love everyone.

My point remains that going overboard about any point of view can backfire with our kids, and yours could turn against your views when they're older, too. They might find it fun to swing to the other end of the spectrum and provoke you by becoming extremely right-wing, bible thumping religious right.......and when you come to visit, mention the revivals they took their children to last weekend.

For their sakes, I hope that they DO find their ways into loving, scripture based churches, and then are wise enough to leave that out of their small talk when you come to visit, so that you do not interfere.

L.,
I'm not surprised it didn't take more than a few comments before you got O. that referred to "Adam and Steve"! LOL Some people just can't help but have their trigger-finger ready & willing.

Anyhoo-I'm thinking that you could put homosexuality on your list of "stuff I don't discuss with my family" b/c, obviously you are not going to change their attitudes and opinions and they are not going to change yours.

Just like when their comments inflame you, your actions and attitude inflame them.

Now, I'm totally with you on this O., but you and I know better than to try to get a leopard to change his spots! Sadly, they don't!

You said anytime YOU mention it....so stop mentioning it. Not trying to be snarky, but are you sure you're not mentioning it just to make them uncomfortable or to rub their noses in it? You know they disapprove, so just don't talk about it around them. Maybe you can come to a formal agreement with them that it'll just be a taboo topic between all of you and leave it at that.

I've taken my son to Pride (although less now that they moved it away from Broadway), and I hope that 50 years ago I would also have taken him to march for or in celebration of equal rights for black people, and 100 years ago that I would have been marching for my own rights him by my side.

Same token, if my family members were slinging the N-word (or any other racial slur) around I wouldn't just sit there and let my children absorb that as something that's acceptable to me. So I understand your need to not be quiet when members of your own family are saying things that need to be spoken against. I won't tolerate F'n Ns, nor F'n F's in my presence, period.

Personally what I do when it's my family is this:

1- Call it
2- Warn
3- Vote with my feet from then on (and yes, I've scooped my son up, kissed people good bye, and walked out the door. And yes, including during the middle of dinner. Some things are just absolutely NOT okay.) I don't have very many lines in the sand, but the ones I do I am completely and totally serious about. Far more often, however, I can holler out "Narrowminded much?" or "Hateful" for the kitchen/ across the living room/ etc., and once called on it, the person stops.

Fortunately I haven't had to do this about human rights issues, but I have done it on a couple of other things. After the first couple of times my family has learned that when I give a warning, I'm dead serious. Especially in the beginning, because I'm notoriously laid back, they just ignored me or upped the ante.

Just a note on the bassinet, however... I wonder if your mum was less insinuating and more probing to see if you found the gift acceptable, or way out of line.

In my own family, being gay is not really a huge issue, because they're so republican they don't think the govt should be in *anyone's* bedroom (over the age of 18) and that all people should have the same rights period. But my farmboy bred, career military dad is kind of cute about it, because even though homosexuality bothers him in principle he's had too many friends and respected colleagues to be homophobic. Just as an example, which is what makes me wonder about the bassinet; He had a tradition of once a month buying me the ginourmous box of diapers from costco. One month they didn't have the "boys" diapers, so he bough the obnoxiously pink ones. So he joked for at least 5 minutes on how I wouldn't "mind". It was pretty obvious he was hoping that I wouldn't take the diapers back, or refuse to use them, or turn on him &/or his masculinity for buying girlie things... since he didn't have a lot of money (and neither did we), it was kind of a big deal for him. I know my dad really well, so it was pretty easy to read between the lines. So I laughed and hugged him and said that we can take pictures and use them for blackmail with girls later on. He still stressed that my husband might not understand. So I laughed again and said if it bothered him I'd draw blue rocketships on them. And he relaxed. It was the only way my very proud father could broach the subject in a way that was less scary to him. You could just see that buying his only grandson pink things *hurt* him, but he was unwilling to leave me in the lurch for diapers. So he was torn, and used the well known fact that I have been proactive in the gay community, to ease his guilt/fear with a joke/question. I'm getting the same vibe from your mum about the bassinet, although I could be wrong. Because, really, it's pretty easy to replace ribbon... but it means that the gift isn't "perfect"... and from a person who has gender/sexuality issues buying the wrong "color" can be seen as a major insult. So anyhow... I wonder if your mum was doing the same thing my dad was?

L. - absolutely keep your kids away from controversy! Don't let them be around your family (too many differences of opinion), don't let them have any awareness of politics, don't teach them history (all that conflict) and absolutely, definitely do not take them to an event that exudes love if it is going to have them ask questions about how two people of the same sex can love each other (anyone who has ever been to a pride parade would know it is about love not sex). What are you thinking woman? We do not want our kids learning about love and tolerance of people!

OK, enough sarcasm.

I do agree with some of the posters that you should not bring up your views about gay rights with your family although I get the idea that they will say something even if you don't. I think it's time to be firm and just tell them that you can agree to disagree but you will not tolerate rudeness and bigotry from them in your home or around your children and so they can choose to keep their views to themselves or stay away.

Good luck

Good for you!

I started a message that explained how I got to where I am and how I changed how I look at religion and it's many contradictions. Such as Exodus 31:12-15 that talks about putting to death those that work on the Sabbath. I guess as a nurse I could have been sacrificed, huh? *Funny how we can pick and chose the verses we chose to follow.
And how left-handed people were once also believed to be sinful. That they made a 'choice' to be left handed and it was a mental disorder.
Or even how we have beloved friends and family members that live very spiritual - good lives who also just happen to be gay or lesbian.

But bottom line is "Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matthew 7:1

I actually like your question because it's similar to my recent question about rude family remarks! Haha! Aside from hanging a huge rainbow flag outside of your house, I think you'll probably have to address this situation head on. Something as simple as, "I believe gay rights is similar to human rights. Please be respectful of my opinion."

I think alot of the time people just simply just can't relate because they've never met or became friends with a gay individual. Try bringing a gay friend around shopping with your Mom or to dinner with your brother. Finding someone to relate to can put aside their rude remarks and put a face to the conflict.

Good luck!

L.

I am christian and I do not support homosexuality but I am not going to preach to you either. I am sure in time you will find out that Adam and Steve cannot produce Eve. You are prego and I am sure you had that seed planted in you by a man, not your girlfriend. Anyway, I think you should consider something just in general. I think you are somewhat in rebellion to what you grew up with and may have been hurt, so you took the totally far left...anyway.

1. Remember that your parents brought you up with a certain religion and despite you not liking it, you should respect their views and not flaunt your new found lifestyle in front of their faces either. Why should they accept and respect you when you can't respect them.

2. For the sake of your child, let him get a chance to experience life without the controversy. If that lifestyle is forced upon him early, you are putting him in a position to be like you, especially in a world where 90% of the population is against it. You're adult and can cope with it, but can he when he gets alienated.

3. You can't really get rid of your family, can you, so it's best you limit your interraction with them to avoid the conflict and do NOT discuss the sexuality issue when you get together, rather focus on the individual people involved and the lives & memories you shared prior to your decision to be gay. They are not comfortable with it and you should respect that.

I don't know what Gay Pride Parades are like in your area, but here in Chicago, they can be downright pornographic. Doesn't matter if it's hetero or homosexuals out there with their junk hanging out, they are NOT places for children at all. If I wanted my children to see butt cheeks hanging out, giant strap-ons, dominatrix costumes and the like, I'd let them watch the Spice channel.

Hi,

The next time they visit I would just say--- I know we don't agree regarding gay rights- let me have my opinion and you can have yours. I am tired of hearing your inappropriate comments about gay people. Its hurtful and not ok in my house. Please respect me enough to stop hurting us with those hateful comments. Thank you.

Hope this helps-

M

There is only one way to deal with a homophobic male. Tell him statistically men who make homophobic comments are usually insecure about their sexuality and are closet homosexuals themselves. That should shut their mouths quick. Why do they make any comments at all? Gay Pride Parades are once a year. Tell your family to stop with the comments you are raising your children to be tolerant to all people and their choices and if they don't stop they can stop visiting as well. Your parents had a shot at raising their kids they way they wanted to and you have the same rights! If my mom ever said anything derrogatory about my son's Godfather/my BFF, who is gay, my front door would be open and her on the otherside of it before anyone could say boo!

I've never taken my kiddo to a gay pride parade, but she has gay uncles, so to her it's normal. (and we're Catholic, the church we go to has never said anything negative about being gay while I was there)

I would just not bring it up around your family. We've never told my grandparents that my husband's brother is gay (they're old and live far away and will probably never meet them), but my dad used to be incredibly bigoted. I finally told him if I heard another racist or whatever comment out of his mouth, he was cut off, and I've never heard anything since. And he's even loosened up about hanging out with "the gays" and has friended my brother in law and his husband on facebook even though he gets some ribbing from his conservative friends at work.

Tell that you welcome open, honest, non-hurtful/non-hateful discussion if they wish to talk, but that "hate talk" and putting down other peoples sexual rights/orientations is just as bad as being racist, sexist or voilent/hating toward other religions. Point out that, according to their religion (and yours if you're a practicing Christian) is that God loves all his children, regardless of these differences. And if they cannot keep their mouths closed about their hateful/nasty comments, then they are not welcome in your house. Then, follow through by getting up and leaving if they start in on it if you're the one visiting, or tell them to leave/make them leave if they are visiting you.

If it is just a matter of discomfort/confusion (as it sounds like on your mom's part), that can be overcome if you sit down and have a frank, open conversation, and use your own sensitivity. She may never be 100% comfortable with it, but if you can explain it in terms she understands -- like, if she's ever been treated badly because she's a woman, or had people stereotype her [emotional, illogical, pick your anti-woman stereotype] and try to open her eyes.

And thank you for choosing to stand on the side of love, and not stand on the side of hate!

You are not going to change their minds on this subject, so perhaps when they make a comment you just need to tell them that was uncalled for and walk away. You may feed into the fiery when you express yourself after they express themselves.

If you support gay pride and they don't, perhaps it is not the subject to discuss with them, even though you are a supporter.

We have MANY gay friends and I could care less what they do in the privacy of their own home. I also hear remarks from people saying hurtful things. So I usually just chock it up to them looking ignorant. If you show them it bothers you because thats why they are saying it, then they will keep it up. I let it roll of my shoulders because it would be exhausting trying to defend all the time. My children have always came with me to cookouts , parties and they know there are so many different people in the world. They are open minded and kind. So good for you!

I don't have any answers but just wanted to say: Awesome that you're teaching your children about tolerance and diversity. Go you!

I've taken my kids to many pride events. I will continue to do so because I think it's important for them to understand the power behind people coming together. Sure, I want them to understand and practice tolerance, but more so, I want them to fight for equality whether for themselves or a marginalized group of people. I want them to understand and use their rights and their voice. I think pride parades are a really fun and demonstrative tool in these lessons. Your not asking for support but I want to give you a shout out anyway. I think it's great and important that you're raising your children to support human rights and equality. To often we inherit our parent's hate, ignorance and lack of education.

Anyway, to answer your question. I don't think there is a way to deal with your family without being direct. I think it's actually really great for your kids to hear the responses you might give their relatives (whom you love and appreciate, but whose values are sometimes hateful). You are an intelligent and educated woman. My guess is that you would have a pretty easy time talking it out with them. Then your children will have a chance to hear your talking points. They will understand that there is solid Reasoning for your beliefs and your love of equality. They will get to see you, their Mama, stand up for yourself and for what is truly right. This will help them keep and use their voice. It will also help them with what they might say, when confronted with discrimination.

I would open the floor to conversation. When your folks say something that strikes you as a little funky, give 'em a chance to explain. Sometimes, as Riley suggested, it might just be awkward insecurity coming out. You said your brother gets ugly. And it seems like there is little confusion about that. So when he says something that is ugly or offensive you might say: I am not alright with hateful words being used in my home. If you would like to have a diplomatic conversation, so that I might explain my position and you might explain yours, I would be happy to do so after dinner.

Regardless of what they end up doing, saying or believing, its still important that you continue to hold and fight for the values you do. Sometimes we get to love people who just don't have the same values. It's especially painful in this case, because you are aware of how many people get hurt (physically, financially, emotionally) as a result of homophobic doctrine.

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Sorry but I am with your family. I think you shouldn't talk about it with them and any time it comes up just tell them you prefer not to discuss this and change the subject. I have met people who are gay and I have no problem with them as I think as an adult you are allowed to make choices for yourself.

While I think it is up to what you think children should be exposed to, this is not a topic or place for them. I agree that you should not take your child to a gay pride parade I agree sexual content should not be exposed to children. Also a few years ago we took our kids to Disney World and it was during gay pride down there and we saw several men in Disney princess dresses and I thought that was not acceptable since the theme park is for children and we were in Magic Kingdom witch in my opinion is the biggest one for little children.

Good for you. I think gay people are just another part of our society and they deserve kind treatment just like everyone else. My cousin was gay and we all knew. Everyone in my huge family..the majority of us didn't care we loved him just as much as we did before we found out.
I don't know how your going to win this argument your brother and yourself both have such different perspectives. Could you tell him that you love him no matter what. That you and him will not agree on everything but you except your differences.

I know what you mean. I have some gay friends, and my mom is very uncomfortable with it. So are other members of my family. I just keep my mouth shut about the subject with them. But... It seems like in your case, it's THEM that's bringing it up. I guess if I were in your shoes, I would just ignore them when they say stuff like that. Either that or if it gets too much to handle, then maybe your family needs to hear you say SHUSH it.

Talk to them, and just agree to disagree and not talk about it with them is my advice =)

Honestly in this case Ithink you just have to be blunt and upfront with them and tell them, its not an issue to you so not to talk to you about it anymore and to keep their thoughts to themselves. I applaud you and think its wonderful that you have come to your own conc;lusions about whats "right" for poeple. I know its hard when others dont see things the same way and make an issue about it ((HUGS)) and good luck with your family.

Only you know what you can reasonably get away with saying to your family. You may just have to say "SHUSH IT." Or you could say, "SHUSH IT, you bigot." In any case, haven't read the other responses, but good for you for taking your kids to a gay pride parade. Won't hurt them at all.

By the way, how did you manage to turn out normal, coming from your family?

(LOVE Anna Lee's response!)

To the few intolerants below: kids can be taught that gay people LOVE people of the same sex, the way mommy loves daddy. The topic of SEX doesn't need to enter the discussion, any more than the topic of sex enters into early discussions with children about heterosexual relationships.

Can't believe someone actually used the ol' Adam and Steve argument.