Converting My 1 1/2 Yr Old to Big Bed Is Not Working but Hates the Crib, Help!

We used Ferber to sleep train. We had a kick and play piano that DS could use to entertain himself. We kept him in a crib until after 3 years old as he was not inclined to climb out. When he started to climb we converted to the toddler bed and put a gate at his door. Best
F. B.

The problem isn't the bed. It's not the bedtime. It's the fact that you have both consistently stayed with her until she finishes playtime and is exhausted. She has never learned to put herself to sleep at 9 PM, and so she can't do it at 2 AM either. You are like the human pinky, the human breast, the human stuffed animal.

Aside from the fact that you are understandably going nuts, your child is not sleeping enough at one stretch for good brain development. So you have to get serious here. It's not just an irritation.

I'd honestly suggest the you look up the Ferber method. It's 3 nights of pure hell, and then it's done. No lying down with her, no waiting till she falls asleep, no rocking/singing to sleep, no snuggling. There's a set routine with bath, teeth, story (with cuddling if you want), lullaby, and a definite departure time. You don't go back in for a full 15 minutes. When you do, it's very little interaction - a few soothing words, "you can do this, night night" and a minor back rub or pat on the tushy, but no staying until she falls asleep. Then you leave, this time for 30 minutes. If you go back in, same routine, word for word. And so on. You do not reward her for screaming, you do not pick her up, nothing.

It's way easier to do this when she's in the crib because she can't get out of bed. She doesn't hate the crib. She hates not lying with you or Daddy. And that is no way to go through life.

And yes, I know you have 2 others who need to go to sleep. SO send them to Grandma's or to a friend's house on a long weekend if you have to, and go through this ritual.

It took us 3 nights, and it was awful, but then it was DONE. We did this on the pediatrician's advice, by the way - based on the fact that our kid was past 6 months of age and not sleeping all night.

Read the book, have your husband read it, and absolutely be in sync with each other on what you are going to say/do. If you deviate, it doesn't work.

Good luck. Fill your brain with the philosophy that you are doing this FOR her, not TO her. It's vital.

You won't like my answer. But, honestly, the best thing for you to do is change her bedtime routine to something that doesn't involve YOU or DAD being in there until she falls asleep. I made the mistake of doing that with our first child, and learned my lesson. With our second, I did sleep training and she learned to go to sleep (at 6 months) without someone in her room with her. Still had bedtime rituals/routine, but she was put in her crib at the end while she was still awake. I never suffered through those 2 hour sessions trying to get a toddler to fall asleep with her. Not once.

What finally seemed to solve it with our first child was putting him in a regular twin bed, pushed up against the walls in the corner (so two solid walls on sides of the bed- at the head, and the side of the bed) and putting one of those child rails on the outside. The foot was still open, and that's how he got in and out of the bed. But he had more room, more independence, yet still had the feeling of security from the walls/rails, and was safe (no climbing over crib rails and risking a fall). It worked. I don't know if that would work for you or not. I didn't try a toddler bed at all. We did try the crib mattress on the floor without success. Then went to a twin bed--up off the floor, with rails.
--ETA

Goodness, How did I miss she is up until 9 pm? That should be earlier, imo. 7:00 pm is what time my daughter went to bed. No reason for it to be later unless activities with your older kids (outside of the home) require it. Put her to bed earlier than they go to bed. It will benefit you ALL.

Pick up a copy of the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley - there is the original one and one for toddlers...I would think the toddler version is more appropriate for your child's age. Her books are filled with lots of effective strategies without the draconian measures that typical sleep training involves, and it isn't just anecdotal - these are strategies that she has had many test families try out. I used the original NCCS when I needed to wean my middle son (16 months old at the time) from night breastfeeding and night waking and found the tips to be very effective in helping us both get a good night's sleep.

Here is a link to the toddler version - check it out and see if it's a good fit for you:
http://www.amazon.com/No-Cry-Sleep-Solution-Toddlers-Pres...

I wouldn't worry at all about lying down with her. It's perfectly normal for preschoolers to need Mom or Dad to help them go to sleep. It's really just a comfort thing that she will grow out of and has nothing to do with what's going on right now.

I suspect she's overtired. 9:00 pm is very, very late for a child her age. My boys (6 & 9) have to get up around 6:30, and they go to bed by 8:00. Since she's younger, I wouldn't be surprised if she needs to go to bed by 7 or 7:30.

I'm sure the idea of trying to get your 1 year old to bed earlier than the other kids sounds like a big ol pain in the butt, but it's something to think about. She really probably needs more sleep at night. The hyperactivity you described is absolutely a sign that a child is overtired.

ETA: the other thing we did with our kids was have something that soothed them on their own. I had the Fisher Price Aquariums in their cribs when they were babies. Set to whooshing sounds or rainfall, and my little ones could turn it on with the easy big button. Sometimes I'd hear them turn it on up to two or three times when they put themselves down. But they did it on their own and it got so they'd just hear it and drift off. They didn't use them at naptime or when we traveled so it wasn't like they had to have it. One of mine had stars on the ceiling from a lamp that I'd switch off later. In our case, these were part of their bedtime routine - that didn't involve me. None of mine had a hard time giving them up when they were old enough to.

To me it sounds as if she's overtired. You say bedtime is 9 pm with your older daughter? Is little one going to bed at this time too?
I would break all these habits and get her back in her crib (or whatever it is you decide to use - but I think it should be in her own space/room if she has it). If it's a mattress on floor so be it. I just would establish a much earlier bedtime and stick to it. If she's allowed to stay up later she'll get zany. Mine did - overtired and then a second wind takes over. Also they slept worse and would wake at night if not to bed at decent time. That's kind of a given.
I would do sleep training - but do something you will be ok with, be consistent with and same with your husband. If you have to stay in room - read a book in corner. This laying down with her or patting bum - I get it, been there - but she'll rely on you to do that. And if she wakes at night (they all do but most put themselves back to sleep) she'll need dad or you laying there again in middle of night. So, I'd do the read book in corner for a few days. Then I'd cut back on time, then eventually I'd work on leaving her alone in her room.
If you move her bedtime back up - then you might have to adjust naptimes.
Personally I'd get her to use the crib for bed - if she's roaming, it's probably safer at this point. Some people switch them over to mattresses or toddler beds at this stage. I had mine in cribs at that age (mine couldn't crawl out of them). Good luck :) Keep us posted

Okay, I'm a mean mom. I'd put her in her room and tell her it's bedtime. I would probably go in there and do the bedtime routine. It's not that big of a deal to me. Then if she got up any time after an hour or so I'd go in and swat her hiney. I'd tell her it is bedtime and lights out. Then her crying would make her tired and she'd go to sleep. Next time she's up and it's not time to be up, same thing. Swat her hiney. Not a painful hit, a swat. On a diaper it's noisy and doesn't really hurt that much.

I swat the kids when they're not minding. They don't do it very many times when I swat them every single time they do it.

Now, that said. I have been through this and we simply laid down with the boy and he outgrew it after a while. Does this child share their room? If so I understand how frustrating this must me for the other kiddo.

You have done the right thing by putting them on a regular bed. 18 months is a good age to do that. We started ours earlier and by 18 months they were in the bed full time. When they turned 2.5, if they had been in a toddler bed they moved up to a full or queen bed. The bed they'd have until they moved out. My husband wanted twin beds and I asked him how many sleep overs did he have growing up and how did it feel to sleep in one twin bed. He caved and we got a full for the boy and a queen for the girl.

You do need to be consistent. Putting them all down at once is good. We did that and it really helped.

One last thing. Is your toddler taking more than one nap, do they sleep after 3pm, do they run amok in the evenings, late? If they are sleeping too many hours during the day then they're not tired. One long nap from noon to around 3 should be sufficient. If they're out running around going nuts at 8pm then come in to change into jammies and crawl into bed their body might be too wound up to relax and allow them to fall asleep. Think about how your feel, for hours, after a great workout. Your energy levels are peaking and you feel very energized I bet. That could be how she is feeling.

Maybe she's "too tired". You know, overly tired. Or she's not tired at that time. Maybe adjust her bedtime to
30 mins later. Keep the bedtime routine that you've been doing...that's good. Since she still takes a long
nap, try the "pushing her bedtime back" just a bit. I will say this.... my youngest went through 2 stages of
bedtime and not being tired...I want to say it was about your daughter's age and then again at about 3 yrs of
age. I had to do the same thing, laying in the room for awhile. I think part of it is that they are aware
that you leave and they are nervous. Try putting a nightlight in the room behind a dresser or nightstand.
Try staying in the room for awhile then leaving when she falls asleep. This is just a phase and it won't last
forever. She just wants you as he security net. I don't think "back tracking" and putting her in the crib
will work. Just put her crib mattress on the ground against the wall w/mattress crib walls against the mattress to
keep her from falling out.

Sounds like you have a good plan in your SWH. I will just add that when you do move her back to the trundle bed in her room, put a gate across the door so that she can't wander the house.

Ditto Diane. You have caused this problem. You're going to have to pay the price for it.

Yes, put her back in the crib. She is too young to be taken out of the crib.

You have to learn that this child doesn't run the household. If you don't learn it now, you're going to be in a world of hurt.

Some people say to get your kid out of a crib by the time the can climb out of it.
The fear is that they'll fall and hurt themselves.
Our son fell once - but he was always a climber - and there was no stopping him.
After that first time he could climb in and out of his crib when ever he wanted to.
He slept in his crib till he was 3 1/2 and then we put him in a twin bed and we put bed rails on both sides for a long time.
He really liked the bed especially since we could get in with him for story time.
Of course THEN he never wanted us to leave but eventually we got to a point where everyone slept in their own bed.
If he woke up in the night he always made a bee line straight for our room - we kept taking him back to his room.
Eventually he got smart and just tucked himself in at the foot of our bed without waking us up.
We all started to get a lot more sleep when he did that.

Waking up at 7-8 am is not an early riser - 4 or 5 am would be early.
Sleeping 9pm ish to 7-8am is is 10 to 11 hrs, then in 1 to 2 hrs nap for a total of 11 to 13 hrs sleep per day - she's getting plenty of sleep - that's why she's not tired.

Always have her nap in her own bed/crib - not the big bed - because she'll want the big bed all the time - even at night - once she gets use to it.

Get her outside for a few hours every day - a good play session in the afternoon in the fresh air will really help to tire her out in time for bedtime.