Can My Childs School Refuse to Let Her Participate in the Trip Choir Because Her

I've sung in choirs my whole life and now my daughter is in choirs, both in an out of school. Many children sing in "solo" voices where they emulate their favorite pop star or try to stand out, and parents often don't understand why that doesn't work. Voices in a choir need to blend and children who try to stand out shouldn't be in. Not because they aren't good singers but because their voice doesn't fit. It sounds like Diva singing.

That's crazy, school choirs take children with all kinds of voices. I know because I work in this situation. If you don't know what they want to raise money for find out and let them know that this group wouldn't like to hear about their standards of what is required for raising money for them. then contact them

I am not so sure if this post if for real. I work in the school system a lot and they would never deny a child who wanted to participate in choir, art, etc unless they were failing academics.

Why on earth don't you know what and why they are fundraising?

You need to get more info from the school and figure out what is really going on.

Hi E.,

Having sung in choirs...

how 'not childlike' is your daughter singing? Is she singing in tune and along with the group, or is she singing more like someone who is on a competition show? I'm not asking to be rude, but choirs are generally about everyone singing with the same inflections and in unison, so if your girl is doing more sophisticated vibrato runs while everyone else is just 'row row row'-ing their boats, it really doesn't work.

I do also wonder how loud she is if they can hear her over all of the other kids?

Probably need more information... ? At seven, they should all be able to sing more or less in unison. Not wanting to pick, but could there be something else going on? Is your daughter not taking the direction to just sing it plainly? I feel a bit confused. If it were my kid, I'd want more answers. It could be the school is totally in the wrong or it it could be that they had a budding diva who wouldn't reign it in when necessary. Really hard to tell with the information you have given, but choirs at that age usually operate with 'sameness' being the goal.

Since I assume she is not being graded on this, no, they do not have to include your child.

I do not understand why this is a big deal, if you have not even bothered to find out what this is raising money for.

I do recall a child in elementary school that had a very adult voice, Really beautiful, but we were a choir.

The music teacher would ask her to please just sing with her "regular voice".. this child would be a bit more dramatic and carry or hold notes not with the group, but as though we were her back up.. To solve this the teacher allowed her to have a solo song at one performance towards the end of the show, but only if this girl would sing as "part of the choir."

I'm sorry, I don't even believe your post. No school would say something like that. Go ahead and sue the school for discrimination, then - that's what you ought to do if this is real.

Also find it hard to believe you don't care enough to know what this is raising money for.

But this seems like an odd thing for a troll to post, so mostly, I'm just confused by this. Wow, it's only Thursday.

(And in the interest of still not taking this seriously, I think a first grade choir would be more about everyone getting to participate and not about who sings in what way, and AGAIN, even if they were excluding based on ability - which I just can't believe - I again find it hard to believe that they would exclude a talented singer. And AGAIN, just purely based on age - I don't even know any seven year old choirs - I can't believe anyone is being excluded.)

Not sure exactly what you are asking...so they didn't pick her to be one of the singers for this event? Not every child gets to do/participate in every event they want to.
Just like only the best players make the team, or the best spellers get to go to the regional spelling bee.
Sounds like your daughter didn't make the cut. That sucks but that's life, right? Especially if they have only a limited number of spots and many kids want to go.
That's what I'm guessing, based on what little information you have provided.

I work in a school and the only time our students are denied going on a field trip is due to grades, attendance or discipline issues. I've never heard of anything like this..especially from an elementary school. Who told you this?

You need to get more information from the choir teacher and the principal. Are you upset that she does not get to sing with the choir or that she doesn't get to go on the field trip? How many children are participating and is your daughter the only one that is not allowed to participate. Did the children have to audition to be selected to go? Perhaps she (and you) did not understand that this was a selection audition. Also in regards to the fund raising, was she supposed to collect pledges to participate?? (Like Jump Rope for heart or a Read-a-thon" I know it hurts moms when their kids are overlooked or taken advantage of- I hope you get the correct information you need. Perhaps you could pick up your daughter from school that day and do something special with her (while the other kids are at the choir trip)

My sons have sung in many school choirs, some were for everyone and some have been by audition. The choirs that are by audition only take those children who's voices fit the needs of the choir. It sounds like your daughters voice doesn't suit the choir.

Your post is confusing.

Who gave you information about this event? Your child, herself? Kids get things mixed up; did you follow up with the choir teacher? If you had seen a letter or web page about the event, it would have told you what the fundraising was for, and you don't know, so I have to assume you didn't see anything written down and are relying on verbal communications here. If your seven-year-old is the one relaying information to you--that is not a good way to get information.

You say that "they" have told you she can't participate. Who is the "they" here? Were you told this in person, by e-mail, how?

As others have noted: Is this a small group and admission to the group was by audition and your child did not audition, or auditioned and didn't make the cut?

Is this actually being organized by the choir teacher, general music teacher, her classroom teacher, a parent volunteer? You don't say. Who exactly told you her voice wasn't right? They said it didn't fit the songs - not that her voice was a bad voice. Do you know where the kids are going on this field trip? Don't you want to know what the kids are raising the money for?

In stage shows or concerts, yes, certain types of songs require certain types of voices. While it seems odd that a child her age wouldn't have a "child-like" enough voice, it's also possible that this is a song or performance that requires kids to play a certain "character" and she doesn't fit. Not everyone gets to do everything every time. This is clearly a smaller group and not open to all kids who want to go. It's possible that by saying her voice isn't childlike they actually mean she has a more mature sounding voice than other kids. Why would that be an issue for you or an insult?

But there are just too many holes in what you seem to know, or rather not know, or just are not telling us.

Of course the school can say that she didn't get a part in the program.

Why don't you go talk with the choir director and ask what's going on? I was in choirs from age 8 until I graduated. And I also went to several solo competitions. I am currently on the cast for a musical. If your daughter is going to be a vocalist, you need to help her to get the constructive feedback that she needs to improve.

It might also be that this choir isn't for her. If she has a mature sound, perhaps the cutesy little school choir isn't going to challenge her and grow her ability enough. Consider looking for another choir for her outside of the school. Or look into a vocal coach who can hook her up with other musical programs.

Choirs require everyone to sing together. They might have different parts, but if one vocalist doesn't use proper dynamics, they aren't part of the choir anymore...they're a soloist. Your daughter might have a lovely voice, but if she's not singing with the group, there's a glaring difference in the sound of the music.

Finally, as much as it sucks, when you are in a music-based program, you aren't always going to perform. You'll try out, try hard, and get shot down because you don't fit the part the director envisions. You get over it and try out for something that is more suited to you.

I think this is a good lesson for your daughter. And I think that you can use this to help her grow and be resilient.

Contact choir teacher for clarification.

I can actually believe that you don't know what they're raising money for. I'll bet you lost the paper that came home. It would be better if you made a folder for this kind of stuff so that you can keep up better with what your child is doing at school. You're just at the beginning of many years of school and you need to know this kind of stuff. Most teachers have the kids put the notices from the school in their backpack. The first thing you're child should do when she gets home, after going to the bathroom, is empty her backpack with you so that you can see what all is in it.

If I were you, I'd go to the principal and tell him or her what you have been told, and that you are having a hard time with this. Tell the principal that you want to sit in on the rehearsal and hear what the music teacher is talking about. If the principal says no, tell her that when you call the news and tell them about this, that probably a reporter will want to interview both you and the principal to ask why your daughter couldn't participate. I will bet if the principal thinks you'll call the news people, she will re-think this.

If what they mean by "not childlike" is that your daughter can't carry a tune, and if she sings notes that are wrong, all over the place, different than the other children, then they should have come to you and talked to you about that in honest terms, rather than just calling it "not child like". If that is the case, it is hard for the audience to listen to one child who is not singing the right notes, especially if she doesn't know it.

Not everyone can carry a tune. Some people are truly tone deaf. Can you sing in tune? Do you KNOW what it means to sing in tune? Can you tell if you or your child sings "wrong" when you sing with the radio?

If your daughter can sing the right notes, but her VOICE sounds different from the other kids, then perhaps it is a BLENDING problem. Is your school's music teacher new at her job? She may not know how to blend children's voices together. That's not your daughter's fault. It is up to the teacher to blend the voices together. She should have worked with your daughter to do that from the time she started singing in the choir.

Whether it's that her voice doesn't blend or she doesn't carry a tune, there should be a solution to this problem, OTHER than telling her that she cannot participate. The teacher could find something else for your child to do. She could turn the pages for the pianist. She could hold the music, hold the teacher's clipboard, be her "assistant". Anything other than being made to stay behind. The biggest problem is that the school is being PUNITIVE instead of trying to figure out a solution for the problem. And they haven't approached you in a way that even makes sense.

As a musician myself, it pains me to see this approach. All it does is take away an innate love of music that all children have. If a teacher doesn't know how to deal with a child's lack of singing talent or ability, the answer is NOT to shun the child. The answer is to find out how to help them. My guess is that the teacher doesn't know what to do. Leaving your daughter out is not the right thing for her to do.

Go to the principal now and tell him or her that your daughter's entire school career and music is on the line right now because of this unfair announcement of the teacher's, and you want a different solution to the problem. Print out what I've said and give it to the principal if you want. I substitute teach in schools and have worked with many FINE music teachers who would never do this. They work with the child and never shame them for their inability to sing perfectly. And that's what your daughter's teacher should be doing.

It is the regular school chorus or is it a select choir where only kids who try-out are accepted? Where did you get your information? What is the fund-raising for?

Call the school and ask polite questions. Sounds like you're getting muddled information.

If it's some kind of select choir then all kids are not going to be included. My daughter loves to sing but can't carry a tune in a paper bag. My DH and MIL are both tone-deaf and my daughter inherited it. I have been honest with her about it. I tell her how much I adore her, and how I love to hear her voice - but that she can't carry a tune and that's OK. We still sing together to the radio in the car - but she'd never have made try-outs of any special choir. But she has other wonderful skills. She's now 18 and knows not to belt out a tune if she doesn't want her friends or acquaintances to burst into peals of laughter.

Get the full story, talk to the choir director, don't use an accusatory tone - you're just find out what's going on so you can understand. It all sounds very strange to me.

Finally - sometimes our kids will not make the elite teams, or groups and that's OK. They need to learn about success and failure - and it's so much better for them to learn about failure when they're young and can come home to a family who loves and nurtures them so they can learn about getting back up and trying again. Every successful leader, business person, professional has been through many failures, has learned from it and has learned how to be persistent and try again.

You go mama. Hug your kid then call the school.

It doesn't sound like you have much information directly from those in the know. You haven't been told what the event is (yet you must have to sign a permission slip), what the fundraising is for, or why your child suddenly isn't going. Contact the choir director or trip coordinator personally, and get something in writing either before or after a personal phone call. A phone conversation allows you to ask questions, which is good, but nothing is on the record. And an email leaves less room for interpretation and can be looked at again.

If you are only getting info from a 7 year old, from other parents, or from someone in the middle (a teacher, for example), then you don't have the full story. If the trip is next week, I'd get on the phone today and say you really expect contact before the weekend so you know what to say to your child.

As it is, it doesn't make any sense unless your child is some sort of child prodigy - and I would think you would know that. I was a music teacher and directed numerous children's choirs, and no one ever got left out. Sometimes a child had to tone it down a little if he or she projected really well (or, frankly, if he/she is tone deaf), but I would never leave out a child this age because of ability. I wouldn't have choruses based on audition until at least middle school and probably not even until high school.

What a shame! We spend our days asking our children to " play nice" and include everyone on the play ground. Here you have adults excluding a little girl who is part of a school organization- ridiculous!

E.. I am sure your daughter as well as her parents are extremely frustrated in the teacher's decision to POSSIBLY NOT have her partake in the singing part of the fundraiser. Since there is no definate answer, I urge you to try and keep calm. It really stinks when we think our children are gifted and talented, only to discover their teacher, coaches or others overlook them. Such is life. This is a wonderful oppourtunity to teach grace and dignity to your young daughter. Why fight this if obviously their is a certain sound they are shooting for. We all have our limitations. Perhaps ask if there is something else your daughter can do to help the class for the fundraiser. Most of the real "work" is often behind the scenes. Rise above and find a way to turn this into a positive learning moment! Blessings.

Just need to comment to some other posters ... what they are raising money for is completely irrelevant to the question!

Seems to me that they have the right to pick and choose who they want to sing, but I would need to know more about the situation.

E.,

Welcome to mamapedia!!

Who is the "THEY" that told you she could NOT participate in this choir event?

I would go directly to the school choir director and get it straight from the horses mouth.

I don't understand why the school would exclude your daughter from the trip. I really don't get that.