At My Wit's End!!

J., he needs to "touch". A lot. He also has to learn empathy. Not everybody "gets" that, and it's something you need to teach him.

If I were you, I'd take him to an OT for an evaluation for sensory processing. Tell her what is going on. Ask her to teach you a home program for a "sensory diet". He needs this kind of sensory feedback, but he needs to learn appropriate ways to get it. You also need to work with him on what is NOT appropriate and give him stiff penalties for inappropriate behavior.

I hope you will try this. I really think it would help you both.

Dawn

Doing something he thinks is funny but isn't to others will not win him friends. The consequence of pushing someone's head in the water fountain is a trip to the principlas office. Really!

I would suggest a talk with his ped. Several have mentioned sensory issues. Might be worth a discussion.

My son is 5.5 and sounds very similar to yours. You might want to look into some occupational therapy for self-regulation. That's the route we're about to take with my son.

My son is also VERY sweet, but he gets way too rough with his friends and is not a deliberate bully, but the effect on his friends is the same. They FEEL bullied, and he is often ostracized. Praying OT helps us, because we have also tried everything else, short of having an AD/HD evaluation done.

ETA: I have long suspected that my son is a "sensory seeker" too, and is just like Angela S.(below) described her niece.

ETA2: I just went back and saw one of your earlier questions about your (then) 4 yr old & soccer. My son was EXACTLY the same way when we tried soccer, and in fact, yesterday when we did a playdate with a few of his friends, we let them run ahead of us on the walking path, and he kept BODY-CHECKING them! He had no idea (despite me flat out telling him and punishing him) that he was annoying them and doing something dangerous. He just wanted to do it.

Last night my mom sent me the following article which I thought was VERY informative and might be a good place for you to start acquiring information. http://www.familyandhome.org/difficult_child.html

I'm sorry - if either one of my boys or my daughter had "pushed a friend's face into the water fountain..." I would be livid. THAT is NOT funny. Doing things that he **thinks** are funny but hurt others? I would have him seen by a doctor - that's a problem to me.

If consequences don't matter to him - then you need to have him seen my a physician that can help you get to the root of his problem(s).

Take a step back and see your son through someone else's eyes. What do you see? Can you do that? I know it's hard as we are biased to our children. However, there are times we need to do this to help our children. If the other child had done that to your son - how would you feel? what would YOU want to see happen? This doesn't seem to a be a case of "boys will be boys" or something like that...please talk to your pediatrician.

Have you read anything about sensory issues? He might be a sensory seeker. I have a niece like this and she struggles to keep her hands off people and/or things. She also loves roller coasters, water slides, etc. She is fearless. Compare and contrast to my sons who tend to be sensory averse. They hate tags in their clothes, being hugged, etc. I can imagine my sons would not like a sensory seeking kid doing those things to them.

I would look into it and see if I could get a better understanding what is driving his behavior. And sensory issues may not be pertinent to your son - just throwing it out there for consideration.

eek...I think you might be in a little bit of denial about your son. He pushes a kid in a water fountain "not to hurt him but to play"?? It seems like he is finding humor in doing things that hurt or bother other people and this is usually not normal and is actually mean and could be considered bullying. I think this might warrant a discussion with his pediatrician to start to get to the bottom of this behavior.

Here is something that you might want to try-it is recommended by an old-school child psychologist named John Rosemond and it is supposed to really work:You tell him that you spoke with his doctor and that he thinks that he is probably not getting enough sleep so the doc suggested that each night right after dinner he go to bed so that he can get more rest. And then you put him to bed every night for at least a week. If he does it again start the cycle over again. Once he realizes that he will be going to bed early every time he acts like that he will stop doing it.

Whoa...that's a potentially dangerous situation. A few inches more down or to the right or left and we're talking about dental bills. Large ones.

You're right, even if not done in a "mean" way--it's NOT right.

If you're sure there isn't something else going on (sensory, social, etc.), then you are going to have to take the hard line.

I don't know how best for you to communicate to him the importance of keeping his hands to himself, but maybe it's good that the school IS involved at this point. It's most likely a school rule, so maybe that will reinforce what you've been telling him? Doesn't his classroom have rules? At the very least, it's a lack of respect for a classmate.

Reinforce it by having him write "I will keep my hands to myself." about 100 times.

I'll tell you this much...my third grader (boy) REALLY dislikes the "touchy, grabby" kids in his grade. And he normally gets along with just about anyone.

It will cost him friends, for sure, if he doesn't learn this lesson SOON!

Talk to his pediatrician - make sure there isn't something else going on. He may be socially clueless, or may have some other issues. Better to figure it out so you don't make yourself crazy trying to fix it if it's beyond your skills.

One thing that worked for us is theory of 'bubble space'. Everyone has an invisible bubble around them. When you are to close to someone your bubbles bump. They don't like that. You have to ask permission first.

When you type it out it sounds paranoid, but it really isn't. The kids respond quickly to it. It is a type of visual (an invisible visual, ha!) element that they can understand to help them with boundaries.

What you can do depends on how much you want him to change his behavior.

People change because either because something very pleasurable will happen if they do, OR they change because something bad will happen if they don't. DWIs have dropped tremendously because of the more severe penalties MADD got legislatures to impose. Speeding is less frequent where ticket prices are the highest.

Words haven't worked. Isolation hasn't worked (time out, grounding). Boredom hasn't worked (no toys). Now is the time to get the corporal punishment out and use it. And after you swat him, if he turns to you and says something like, "Ha Ha Ha, that didn't hurt" then you need to increase the power behind the swat.

Good luck to you and yours.

When we were kids, that was called "typical 7yr old boy" behavior or "horseplay." Today it requires intervention from the principal as a bully? When we were kids with moms who were friends, our moms wouldn't have needed to report something that wasn't intended to be "mean" to the teacher, either. Kind of a sad commentary on our times, huh?

When you son apologized, did he just say "I'm sorry" or did he give a more in depth apology for specifically what he did and how it made his friend feel? Did he say it in person? Your son may need to learn some impulse control, and a consequence is unlikely to really deliver that. Help him to identify why he did that to his friend (anger, frustration, wanting to be funny) and then discuss with him what actually happened. How did he feel? How did his friend feel? Does he think his friend trusts him and wants to spend time with him now? How do friends treat each other? Did it break any rules? Was it a good choice? His apology to his friend should include that information..."I'm sorry that I pushed your face forward into the water fountain. I thought it would be funny and make people laugh, but I felt bad afterwards when it embarassed you and hurt your feelings. I know that's not how friends treat each other, and I will never do that again. It was a bad choice, and I am really sorry. Do you accept my apology?" In my opinion, the most effective consequence is one that ties that action to the outcome to be able to identify a logical thought process. The real consequence here in this situation is that his friend may not trust him or want to be his friend any more, and breaking the school's rules will get him in trouble with the school. You can certainly dole out a punishment too, but I personally would hesitate to call it a "consequence."

I would let the teacher talk to the principal. It's the natural consequence of his behavior. You say that nothing you do seems to take care of it...then let the school deal with it and see if that helps him realize his behavior is wrong.

I have a grandson around that age who is very impulsive; kind of like your son. Smart, funny, very witty but if something pops into his head he has a hard time not following through on it. It's resulted in a couple trips to sit at the principal's office and lost recess time. He's old enough to see cause and effect and is starting to put things together and not acting out as much.

I'd say you need to step back and let school deal with school issues. It's unfair to punish him at home when he's already been punished at school for something. Instead use it as a talking point to teach him empathy for another child.

When he does this kind of stuff when you are there to witness it (like in a play date with a friend or at the park) then pull him aside and let him know that his actions are not what's expected, make him say he's sorry, and then leave. He'll learn pretty fast that bad behavior is rewarded by all fun ending. The flip side is to tell him how proud you are when you see him doing good things. When he has a great play date tell him. If you see him being a good friend let him know.

This will probably sound crazy, counterintuitive, etc., but what about a karate class for him? People usually only think of this if their kids need self-defense skills, but really, at its core, it teaches respect for others and self-control. Just have a word with the sensei or whoever ahead of time about your son's specific issues. Oh, and I just used karate as a generic term -- just about any martial art would be great. Ask around for recommendations.

Oh my, I hope the teacher didn't actually call him a bully (awful label for a little boy) I hope she just said he's being perceived as a bully.
He doesn't need to be punished he needs to LEARN how to behave.
And he's old enough to suffer the natural consequences of his behavior: being reported to the principal, especially if this is an ongoing problem. Be honest, if someone else's kid was doing this to your child, you would expect that, right?
I would make an appointment with the school counselor/psychologist. Your son sounds like he has impulse control issues. He may just be immature but he needs someone working with him to correct this behavior, and the sooner the better!

Just a suggestion.....reverse role play.?