3 Year Old Behavior...

Sounds like your power struggling with her - that can become a vicious cycle.
Are you putting her in time out to 'make' her say sorry. The origin of time out was to give people a chance to cool off. Read Jane Nelson's book positive disipline. You can't force anyone to feel sorry that is an evolution - developing out of relationship and 3 year olds are still very much in the process of learning empathy.Try using story ( without guilt tripping) to help her understand 'other'. It really sounds like time out is being used as a way to punish - punishment is not effective. Jane N actually wrote another book about time outs' after she realized that people were just morphing it into a punishment.

Work on the roots of your relationship, where your expectations are coming from and why and your child's needs for bonding, fun, exercise, meaningful 'work' ( helper), rythme and routine. Improvement ( not perfection) should follow. Help her recognize & acknowledge that yes she feels cranky when she's hungry tired ect - just like you do - she gets jealous from the baby just like all little kids and ASK her if there's something special she'd like to do with mommy.

It is hard to really give your trust to child development with your first (have 3) & I made SO many mistakes
but I have to tell you my last 2 - girls are 10 & 12 and have focused on us enjoying each others company - I do not punish - I tried timeouts 2x early on with them.We talk about it and LAUGH together. Unless you are setting up a special space and making it a comfort - MOST children are not going to stay there when they are angry. And parents then began threatening with other things to then make the children STAY in time outs or worse physically hold them down or lock them in - it just gets ridiculous. so exactly what do we end up teaching?

We need to learn to teach BEING IN relationship. That has really worked with my children - I have never forced children to apologise - and if given time they always come around - that was because of modeling not parroting.

Sounds like your daughter is asking you to change with her and she IS angry -why? - when you put yourself in her shoes how does it feel - what do you really want & need to feel calm - happy? SOmetimes kids just need us to listen & mirror back to them.

Anyway you will work out the kinks -

R.

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Dr. S.... My doctor once said " give attention to the attention you want to receive" It is difficult to ignore the bad behavior.. although in time it does work. Attention is all these children react to. Ignore the poor and give positive attention to the attention you want out of her. Good luck...

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First of all, three-year-olds aren't very good at saying or being sorry. She is probably just being honest when she refuses to apologize. That is actually a good thing. An apology should be heartfelt and sincere. If she got the time out for shrieking, then she has paid for her unacceptable behavior, and the slate should be wiped clean. Expecting her to apologize on top of a time out creates resentment. If regular mealtimes aren't always possible, provide a continuous stream of healthy snacks to keep her on a more even keel. We all get grouchy when our blood sugar level falls too low ! When she raises her voice, you either drop the conversation or start whispering. She very well may imitate that too ! It looks like your daughter has a strong personality, which will be an asset when she grows up. Just try to keep that in perspective when her stubborn streak appears. Then again, it could very well be temporarily exaggerated...it's just a phase, as they say !

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Hi S.,

This sounds like acting out, which is expected if you have a new baby. At this point the novelty of a new baby has worn off and she wants your attention. The No's you speak of sound more like "No! I want my mommy back for myself, why don't you understand?"

As strapped for time as you are, try finding some time that is just for you and her.

Also at this age kids like choices. It gives them a sense of control. When you give choices for food, make sure there is no more than three options. This way she sees you are giving her what she wants, but in a way that is controlled by you.

good luck!

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Hi,
We did the opposite when my son Raffy was a toddler. We always spoke quietly and politely to him (unless there was immediate danger). When he would start whining or talking too loud, we would say, "Sorry, we can't hear you unless you speak in a normal voice" and ignore him from then on. Until he started speaking normally. It worked!
C.

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Dear Steohanie,
Young children live in their bodies, not yet in their thinking. And so asking her to say she is sorry for....asks her to come out of her natural mode of growth into a self-reflective stage of development which she not reached as yet. When you ask her to do something and she refuses , try simply doing it with her. The learning mode for young children is imitation. They imitate everything around them and that builds their bodies and their inner world. If you first model and engage in an activity with her, she is more likely to follow along and do as you do.
Since this is the young child's learning style, it is important that the adults around them model good behavior, so the child can know how to follow it. Children are very sensitive to your moods and intentions, even more than what you do. So, giving loving attention is a more effective tool than chiding or demanding a certain behavior.
Best wishes! Be kind to your child and yourself...that's more important than anything else.
J. Birns, Waldorf teacher/education consultant

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Hi S.,
I have a 7 (boy) and a 5 (girl) year old. My husband and I believe that by encouraging the positive that the kids do they try to behave better. It is hard because the first thing that we think of to say is "no" or "don't do that"; however, we only encourage their negative side and it becomes chaotic. We keep them busy and if they start acting up for some reason, we change the activities. We take them to another room, ask them to help us with something, anything to keep them away from what was bothering them. We have never put our kids on time outs, I don't think it's necessary, but this is just my opinion. Another thing that your daughter might be experiencing is jealousy. There is a new baby in the house. She might feel left out and wants attention. All you can give her is love and show it to her in different ways until she gets used to her little brother. Let her know that she's very special, that she's loved and try to have some time alone with her. You also mentioned that having regular meals might help. By 3 your daughter should have and know her routine, including eating at the same times. It is so important and easier on everyone if there is an established routine and know when everything happens from the moment she wakes up until she falls asleep. Try different positive things and see what works for your family. E.

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First off- we've all been there so no worries, you're not alone. For screaming we have a firm rule in out house- it is only acceptable in case of injury otherwise it must take place in my daughter's room. That is her place to express herself as she pleases but the door must be shut out of respect for the rest of us. When she starts to scream I remind her that's not how we deal with our problems and if she needs help she needs to use her words to get it or if she feels she wants to scream she needs to leave. If she doesn't leave of her own will immediately I offer to escort her to her bedroom. Our house rule is to ignore all extreme emotional displays in her bedroom and discuss matters outside of her room, after all we all have to share the house so shared spaces require respect for everyone's feelings- and eardrums.
As for not apologizing, I would make it a point that until she can be polite to all family members (which means apologizing for rude or harmful behavior) that she cannot be in shared spaces with them- so she will have to stay in her room. After a few trips to her room (as this can drag out a great deal when first implementing) you may have to remind her why she had to leave and explain what she must do to join the family again.
When she refuses to accept your no be firm, DO NOT GIVE IN, if it takes ten screams to get you to give in, believe me she's taking notes and has learned that's what she has to do to get what she wants. I have a very stubborn daughter too and I can say once we say no and explain why (I consider that important so it's clear there is a fair understandable reason for her and not just because you're "mean") that is the end of it. If she has trouble accepting that she can leave the room (or store, or whatever). If I'm in a place I don't want to leave and she makes a fuss I offer to take her to a bathroom or the car and let her stay there until she can control herself.
If you want her to stop the yelling over you you're going to have to stop as well, personally I tried the quiet talks but found that doesn't work as well for my daughter. I walk over to her place a hand on her shoulder to get her attention look her in the face and calmly say, "the yelling needs to stop, I deserve to be spoken to with respect just as you do and you will have to leave the room if that's too hard for you to do now." I don't make it a formal time out, just she has to leave until she can come back and talk at a polite level and wait her turn. (I use the same technique for the interruptions.)
Books I have found helpful are: "The No-Cry Discipline Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley, "1-2-3 Magic" (forget the author), and "Children: The Challenge" by Rudolf Dreikurs. "No-Cry" is a simple book, which talks a lot about what's behind the behavior and focuses on fixing those problems (like if your child is tired, hungry, bored, etc fix that and the problem should fix itself) but I feel it doesn't apply to all kids, especially some of the more determined types that sometimes get into a habit of something for more primal power-struggle kind of reasons. 1-2-3 Magic is great because it emphasizes giving your child measured time to respond to you (so they can decide if they want to work with you or not). Overall though the book I would be crazy without is "Children: The Challenge" it's an older book but it's very simple in that it really emphasizes the importance of treating your child with respect and equality as much as yourself and I've found it solved just about every problem I've had. From how to phrase the way you talk to your child to getting them to see things from your point of view the advice is worth it's weight in gold.
Anyway, however you handle the problems keep your chin up, no parent is perfect and no child is either, we all have to find our own way to work together. *Hugs*

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Your daughter is very smart and will model and 'use' your techniques so keep that in mind when you teach, discipline and react to what SHE does.

Why do you give her time-out? Consider each circumstance. Give her a choice "you need to take time out or..." and the alternative could/should be a way to undo her mistake.

Keep in mind that your 'stay at home job' with two young children is perhaps the most demanding AND most rewarding job you could choose as a parent. My kids know when I am frustrated, exhausted or clueless as to what to do better than any boss I have ever had.
They have also taught me more about life and myself than any boss... the important stuff.

Oh my Goodness, that last response - Are you even a mother??? If so you need to go to some parenting classes. You don't hit a child specially with an object. Unless you'd like to teach them that hitting is okay and I'm sure you will be their first practice shot.
S. - the response from the former teacher very good! Understand it's just a phase and don't make a big fuss over her behavior just walk away from it. Trust me she won't be doing this a year from now.
You had mentioned feeding her on time. I can't say enough with my 3 yr old son how important it is to make sure he always is fed, it makes such a difference. We all can get cranky if I don't eat. So when she is acting out, take look to see if her needs are being met - as well as sleep.

Read the Love and Logic books for parenting. Their tactics have helped me with my spirited 3 yo daughter. One of my other posts talks a little more about the fundamentals.

Good Luck!

I think she's acting out because the she's having a hard time with you having another baby. Include her in more stuff that you do with the new baby let her help you a lot tell her it's her baby too. See if that helps and give her alot of extra love.This is what I had to do with my kids and it helped a lot. It's so hard for little kids( only children) when mommy has a new baby because they were the only one for so long and they feel like someone took there place and now everyone is googoo gagaing over this little baby that can't even talk. (smile) Hope that helps you

S.,

I Looooooooooooooooooooove the Super Nanny! I get so many good tips and the reminder over everything else, to be consistent with my kids (this I need as a constant reminder especially when I feel like they just wont listen!). So here is my advice via the super nanny. Stay consistent with your time outs. When you put her on the time out spot/seat/etc. put her there once, tell her why you are putting her there and tell her the amount of time she will sit there (supper nanny suggests the age they are in minutes- so 3 minutes for your little one). if she gets off once you tell her one more time that she belongs in time out because ____. If she gets off again from that point do not say anything to her, do not make eye contact just take her by the hand or whatever, and keep putting her back on the spot until she sits there for her alloted time. once her time is up only ask her to say "sorry" asking to say sorry for what it is she has done will continue to be painful. she knows what she has done wrong and all you really need is a "sorry" and then give her a hug. If she can not apologize to you tell her that she will need to go to time out once again if she can not, because that is a vital part of the time out and a way for you to gain respect from her and to let her know YOU are the mommy. Hope that helps.
As far as the shrieking goes, I would imagine that you should respond to that as in any bad behaviour, give her a warning to stop, and then if she does not put her on time out.
Remember S., be consistent, stick to your guns. you can do it. Watch supper nanny as I do for your weekly reminder. (honestly, some times I DVR it and then leave memorable episodes on the DVR so I can go back and remember what Jo said and how she handled the situation. I also LOVE her book!).
All the best!

My 2 year old did the same thing!.... Is it just girls because my boys have never thrown fits like she does.... Anyway, I've worked in a number of daycares (my aunt's being the best, and have 3 of my own, and I can tell you that while you may have been able to get her to appologize in the past, that at 3 she has no knowledge of what "I'm sorry" means....... What's worked for us is to put her on time out, not responding to her tantrums, and when she's calmed down to express to her that her behavior is "not ok" and that it hurt.... We've done that with my 2 year old baby girl since she first showed signs of understanding us and now when she's hurt someone, after her time out, she'll walk up to whoever that was and give them a hug..... For a 2 or 3 year old that is the equivalent of "I'm sorry"..... Hope this helps!

As a mother of seven children, now almost all grown....i think your 3 year old is just letting you know she is still there, now with a new baby in the house....she is just trying to seek out alittle more attention, whether it is good attention or bad attention, she is still getting attention from you... ...i also have a 3 year old grand-daughter, who is doing alittle of the same, they are just testing you also, to see just how far they can push you, because she knows you are busy with 'little brother', as i am busy with my work, they just nudge alittle bit to say *here i am* and i notice when i raise my voice ... she does the same ... little sponges, they are...so, i have to remember to just sit down with her and talk for a moment and pull her out of the mood...eventually she says 'sorry Gramma' ... no matter how much attention you give them, they just want more and more, and me having seven children is no different than you having two, it's all relative, i was a stay at home mom too...and it is harder than people think...i'm proud of you...take a deep breath, you will be GREAT!!! *each day is a new beginning* signed....Mom in her late 50's even tho they move out...you are always their Mom!!! (it's a huge honor being a ~Mom~ and my Greatest accomplishment...) Have a great day....T.

Gosh, I feel ya! The best thing I have had work is to really emphasize positive behavior. When she helps you clean her room, or says thank you, or helps with her brother just go overboard with how much you like it when she is a nice girl, etc. I agree with the person below me, time out is to help everyone cool off. Kids will attach on to ANY attention and if her attention is coming from getting into time out and all the time spent talking to her afterward about saying sorry then that is what she will go for. Rome wasn't built in a day, so good luck with it! She might not change over night but eventually it will happen.
www.plantitnursery.com

Hi S.,

We were having similar difficulties with our twins this fall (about three months before their third birthday). Suddenly I felt like I had two new and cranky and angry kids and none of my previous techniques worked. I'm sure your situation is a bit different since your three year old is also experiencing a huge change by having another sibiling, but I'll tell you a bit about what we did...

On the recommendation of another parent, my husband and I spent the weekend reading from cover-to-cover "Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood" and then implemented their strategy. After three really difficult days, it stated to work wonders. It is a whole parenting philosophy that requires that both parents be on board and that you both be fully committed to it. I can't give a very good synopsis, but I'll tell you some of the things I liked about it. I like that the parents' job is to be very calm, very empathetic, and consistent and in control. I also like that the strategy requires that you give your kids respect and give them lots of choices and options so they have control and say in their lives. I also like that every bad behavior situation is an opportunity for your child to learn about consequences and to ultimately have more control over their emotions and their lives. I also found it interesting that you don't spend a lot of time talking to them about their behavior -- they learn from the consequences. We've been doing this since December and continue to use the strategies but have had very few negative behaviors.

This might not be the best approach for you, but it worked great for us. I hope you get a lot of helpful feedback from this group and best of luck!

~ S.

Do you know why she won't apologize on her time out? My 3 year old told me once that he couldn't say he was sorry because he was told he wasn't supposed to lie, and he wasn't sorry. I recently read an article about that to, that forcing them to say they are sorry when they are not is saying it's okay to lie, and they may be contradicted...

As for the other stuff, welcome to the tiresome 3's!

there's a book called 1-2-3 Magic that i highly recommend and it helped me greatly with my 3-year-old. it gives lots of advice and tricks on discipline and time outs.

I'm in the same boat with my 3 year old son! Pre-school teachers are even having the same issues. I've started rewarding his good behavior - not ignoring the bad, but when he does something really good, like help or is quiet while I'm on the phone, or if he does little things, I reward him with a special story, an MM (my favorite/easy/fast reward). It seems to be working, but I'm interested to see other's advice. I need help, too!

I started seeing changes in my 3 1/2 year old when my other son turned about 5 months. What I'm finding is alot has to do with him no longer getting as much attention as he used to, and pushing the limits when I'm nursing the little one and he knows I can't get up right away. I'm really trying hard to interact with him as much as possible, follow through with what I say and putting the little one down if I need to send him to a time out. I've noticed the behavior improving. There are still other things we need to work on as a family, though. It's a work in progress. I hope this helps.

Hi!
I have a 3.5 year old boy, and he is like that too. Some days are good, some days bad. Everything has to be negotiated constantly, very exhausting. I would just say, pick your fights, let some things go, and fight about the things you really care about.

And don't underestimate that she just got a little brother. My son can be very jealous, he wants to be on his own with his mum, which almost never happens these days (apart from when his little sister is asleep). Try to get your husband to take your little son and go out for an hour and have some mummy-daughter time. Hang in there!

I totally feel for you. I have twin 18-month old grandkids living in my home; she has just started shrieking when she starts to get frustrated (toy doesn't "work right", brother starts to take something from her, etc.) and he has started temper tantrums when he's frustrated (hungry, but can't verbalize it yet and dinner IS on the way).

One trick that seems to work is to speak in a very low tone, so the child has to stop screaming/shouting to hear what you're saying (this is not always easy to do, as our first reaction is to yell). You've taken some good first steps in giving her a time out, but you HAVE to follow through by insisting on a heartfelt apology. If she knows she's not getting out of time out until she delivers an apology she will stop refusing. Do not allow her to walk away. The apology is part of the time out. This may also be her way of getting some of the attention that she now shares with her baby brother. As we all know, even negative attention satisfies them when they think they're being ignored. The most important thing is to follow through every time --- if you teach her the apology is an option by allowing her to walk away or refuse, then she will not deliver the apology as required.

First, she doesn't get out of time out till she says sorry to you. when she raises her voice, turn away and ignore her. When shes calm again explain that you will not respond to that tone. Also, stnding firm is different from being mean. You can stand firm with a smile or even a tickle as long as you continue to follow through with what you've said. Less of a struggle this way.

It sounds to me she's picked up on your insecurities as far as disciplining her. I am not indicating your lack of parenting skills, it just takes time and fine tuning. I'm no pro by any means but I got better at it. So, don't give up. First off, pay attention to your confidence level when you discipline her. If you are unsure in your mind, you are unsure in your behavior. Children are very intuitive! Chances are your daughter sensed that. So, my suggestion would be to count briefly to yourself before acting (not reacting) to her outburst. Make a mental note to yourself that you are confident in what you're about to do and follow through! Follow through, follow through! It may feel like a never ending battle but she is watching you and depending on you to follow through even though she is not going to act pleased with you. Stay firm. Demand that apology before she can do anything. If she walks away, bring her back...however often or long it takes, keep doing it. DO NOT GIVE UP. She will know that you mean business if you do not give in. It may take several hours for the first time she walks away, screeching each time..but I can guarantee you this, she will get the clue, YOU are the MOM. It sounds rigid and unbending but children truly needs some clear boundaries and as long as it does not crush their souls, its alright to be firm. It brings a sense of security for them as it did when I was a child. I didnt like it but I appreciated the clear outline of what was expected of me.
Someone has told me this once and it has always helped, "Remember, your child has a brain of a ___ year old, and you have a brain of a __ year old." It put things back in perspective. She may be crafty in mimicking you but in reality, its just mimicking. She is only 3 years old. She will go onto something new later. YOU CAN DO IT!

**Make sure you spend some quality time with her without your son. This will reassure her that she is still the light of your life. Get in touch with the little girl in her by having dress up days with girly stuff. My daughter loved it so much she still talks about them from time to time. We would put a million barrettes in each other hairs, wear a gazillion plastic bracelets and wear beaded necklaces, put make up on each other, put funny noses or hats on, etc. Then we would take pictures! We still have them. How can you NOT have fun with that?
My children are grown, Daughter is 21 with a child of her own and Son at 18 (soon to graduate high school in three months) but they still watch me and depend on me to be confident and follow through.

As a parent given the primary responsibility of teaching your child to respect authority, be confident that you should insist on impulse control. When your daughter is put on time out, tell her "no screaming. It's ok to cry but no screaming." Avoid asking her to do things that she SHE KNOWS she is not supposed to do like "Sweetie, will you please stop jumping on the bed." Instead, say "No jumping on the bed. Be safe. Are you being safe? We have rules in this house so that we can all be safe!" Encourage and teach her to control her impulses while she's young (for example, crying is ok. Shrieking is not ok.) If she can learn to control her impulses now, then when she's older, she will have less difficulty raising her voice and insisting on getting her own way when firemen, school officials, or police officers are giving instructions.

Try the book "1-2-3- Magic"

Regular meals, and snacks will help too. My son always gets cranky when he's hungry.

Good luck to you!

Repition and redirection are always good. At this age they're learning that they have a voice and how to push adults to their limits. Don't stress on making her say sorry, because she might not know what she's sorry for. Explaining to her why she was in "time out" and that bad choices can lead to bad consequences. Praise her for making good choices and work on not letting her know that she is getting to you. Explain to her that you know she's upset and you are too, but when you ask her to do something she needs to follow directions. Tell her that you're sorry she made that choice but she has to sit, and please don't talk to me like that, because I don't like it. When putting her in "time out" or talking with her, talk loud enough that she can hear you, but change your tone so that she knows you mean business but her behavior is not affecting you. Don't give her attention for negative behavior, because this behavior will continue. When she gets upset, let her know that you'll talk to her when she settles down, but she will not yell at you and try to do the same with her. Toddlers are trial and error. You're doing a wonderful job, don't get discouraged, we all go through this as mothers. Hang in there! :)

Hi S.,

I understand your problem. I have twins. I used "time-out" blocks. They were big wooden blocks that I could stack and the girls could see. When they were in time-out (say for 3 minutes) I would stack up 3 blocks and take one away each minute. If they were still carrying on during time-out I would add a block.

For trips to Grandma's I gave them each a roll of nickels. If I had to get involved in their arguments they each had to pay me a nickel. They could also earn more nickels from me by helping each other. At the end of the trip when we were home again they could spend whatever nickels they had left.

Hope these two ideas help you. They worked for us!

Good luck and enjoy your kids!
N. :o)

Hi, I read a few of the comments and the advice about physically placing her on time out is what I did w/ all 4 children. Also, I use a timer and then tell them you have to listen for the timer to know when time out is over. Time out does not start until you are quiet.( then when they are quiet you say ..okay…now… I will turn on the timer)

***But a good one that I used with the children is : "If you do not talk to me nicely I will not stand here and be disrespected...(at this point I completely turn my back to them and say)...I will come back when you are calm"...(and then walk away)

This is a technique used in nature when the leader is displeased it turns its back or head to the insubordinate subject. Humans convey emotion through facial expression to their young and by turning your head you are giving them negative punishment. (taking something away) negative punishment is more effective over time.

Understand that you can NOT do this in anger, it has to be very calm, controlled and matter of fact. This was taught to me by my old child psychology professor and I have gotten wonderful results.

This teaches them a few life lessons such as: that you (Mommy) have respect for yourself and expect the same from them. You set ground rules about time outs being calm, AND they model this behavior later...with friends, on the playground, where…ever, so that if kids treat them badly they know that they do not have to put up with it.

My children are in elementary school and middle school and they all have used this at some point(without even realizing it)

Keep in mind that what ever techniques you use it has to be consistent because you are training (teaching) them, and to master anything takes lots of practice and repetitions.

I wish you success.

Shrieking... sorry - she's 3 - I would just ignore her. She probably does it because she knows it bothers you. Tell her time outs don't start until she's quiet - that eventually worked for me - although I had to sit through at least 30 mins of screaming a few times. After he knew the rule, we had quiet time outs.
"I'm Sorry"... Don't let her out of her "time out" until she apologizes - that's part of system. DO NOT ever let a 3 year old walk away until she has done what you ask of her. This is a very bad habit and she will always do it if you let her. Get up and go after her if she walks away.
Raising her voice over yours... Do more physically w/out talking or explaining to her. Ignore her words and shrieking - that's a battle you won't win verbally. Let her know if she's out of line and tell her to take a time out if she is - otherwise don't speak. If you keep walking her over to a time out - she'll get it. Speak to her when she'd done sassing you and is ready to give in, otherwise don't bother.
SuperNanny has a book out that explains time outs really well, I would pick it up and go over the details if I were you. The details are the parts that make it work.
SUPERNANNY: HOW TO GET THE BEST FROM YOUR CHILDREN
by Jo Frost

Regular meals and naps are crucial. Lots of behavior problems are blood sugar/fatigue problems. Not listening to mom is an attempt to assert power over you. Don't let it happen. You're the mom and her assurance that you are stronger than her gives her security. I saw a very smart dad the other day put his three year old in time out and told her that with each noise she made, her time started over, he just gently kept reminding her that her time wasn't over till she was quiet for three minutes (one min. for each year old) she really got it, it drove her nuts to have to wait more but she understood that until she was quiet for three minutes, her time out wasn't ending. He showed her that he held the power and she is secure knowing Dad is tough! With my own kids (8 & 11) I put them in their rooms and said be as loud as you want, but you'll have to do it in here and I'll come get you when your time's up. When the time was up, I explained why they had time out in non-negotiable terms. "hitting is not nice" we don't hit. You hit your brother and now you will say you're sorry or time out starts over." It's not a discussion of why she hit, or how she feels, it's a brief explanation from you with concise expectations.

The time-out is just that, time for her to think about what shes' done and then say sorry. You may not have given her enough time. The behavior is that of still being angry and not at the point of knowing what she did was wrong. If she comes out angry, give her five more minutes but tell her the reason. If she screams, and she will, tell her that five minutes have been added. Parenting is not easy but once she understands that you are truely in charge, life will go easier on you and she will be a better person for it.

Dr B.

Hello, I would persist in my decision, try putting the time out in a different place preferrably with a door that you can close, Tell her when she settles down and is ready to say sorry she can come out. Sometimes My son woulld whine wnd bother me so much that i would take a time out, I'd lock myself in my room and not let him in until he settled down.
T.

S.

It sounds like you have a strong willed little girl. My son, now 13, has always been strong willed too and it can be very challening. Ryan would literally throw himself onto the floor as if someone pushed him from behind. At first I was mortified and coddled him, but once I ignored him he didn;t do it anymore. Time outs didn't work because he'd destroy his room and items in it. A few times I had to lay on top of him to restrain him and tell him "I love you and will help you control yourself". Once I saw this on Oprah I felt better about doing it.
You might want to get earplugs and keep them handy for her shrieking times and maybe some for the baby too. She will see that it does not get her the attention she is striving for. She apparently does not feel regret or guilt which I feel is important. I am not sure what to tell you about her not apologizing. I do know that when we do to them what they've done to others they do not like it, but it's not alwats the right message. I can refer you to a book Disciplining with Love and Logic, by Jim Fay. He has books, and cd's and his son is a Ph.D. also. I saw him speak at my son's middle school last year and he has solutions for everything. She also might be a little jealous of the baby and you can have her help with him.
Good Luck
T.

Classic power struggle. It's the age. Let her scream in time out. This is her time to get over the attitude or behavior. But, absolutely ignore her, 100%. Don't tell her to be quiet, don't say shhhh, don't even give her ANY eye contact. Because that's what she wants. You also said you "have not been able to get her to say "I'm sorry for _____" once she's out of her time out." Let her understand that she is not out of time out until she says this. This is very important, when her time is up, don't let her up from her time out spot, you go to her, crouch on your knees at her level and say, 'what did mommy put you in time out for?' if she refuses to talk, just tell her 'you will sit there until you can tell me', stand up and walk away-her time out continues with no attention to her. You want to make sure that she fully realizes her unacceptable behavior. But don't talk about it too much, you just want her to say it out loud. Once she tells you, and she will. Stay in front of her, still in time out and ask for an apology. If she refuses to talk or say sorry, stand up and walk away-her time out continues. When she is ready to say sorry get on your knees accept the apology and give her a big hug and say thank you and I love you-to reward her for being a big girl and doing what was right. A couple of times of this and it will change, she will realize that in order for her to be free from her time out she must communicate with you. I swear to you, this works. Just be consistent! Good luck!

Check out the book 1,2,3 magic -- it's a great system for discipline (it divides it into 2 techniques, 1 for things you want the kids to stop doing, and another for things you want them to start doing) that works with 2- 12 year olds. The big thing is "no talking, no emotion" when you are dealing with a time out -- she can scream, but it has no power if you don't respond. She still has to do her time out -- and you can walk outside and smell the flowers.

A year ago, when my daughter was the same age, she started doing things where she wouldn't listen or defy me. I came to a point where I just stopped talking to her and had this look on my face that had "I'm disappointed" written all over it. It was really wierd how that made her feel bad enough to say I'm sorry. Then we'd discuss what happened and how she hurt my feelings, then she'd tell me how I hurt hers, so we'd have this dialogue that's really great! Yelling didn't prove useful, just made me more frustrated and she, more defiant, she wasn't going to hear me better when I yelled so I stopped. Now she knows that when she gets the silent treatment from me, something's up and she'll come and say "I'm sorry", "I Love You", "I didn't mean to make you frustrated, but..." and we hug for a long time and discuss. While I'm sure this isn't a good method for others, it's what worked for my daughter and me. :) Good Luck and keep remembering that "this too, shall pass".

a new baby in the house can upset a todler and she may be trying to reclaim her attention. When the 3.5 month old cries, do you stop what you are doing with the 3 yr old to take care of the baby? Try to include the 3 yr old in the care of the baby. Don't drop what you are doing with her when the baby cries. Crying won't hurt him. The 3 yr old will most likely decide that you should take care of the baby after he has cried for a couple of minutes. Have her take an active roll in caring for the baby. She can get his diapers, hold the bottle for him, powder his bottom,(with supervision) etc. After her time out, give her a big hug and tell her that you love her. Let her know that your love is unconditional, and although you may not approve of her actions, you still love her. I have 5 grown children and 13 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren. When my second child was born, my doctor told me "Take care of "Jean" (the first child)

S., I'm sorry I don't have any advise for you. But want you to know how relieved I feel to know I am not the only mother of a 3 year old going through what your going through. I look forward to seeing the responses. Hang in there.

M.

Hi S.!

It sounds like your daughter as already learned that even with those behaviors, she will still continue with her daily routine. When they're young like that, it's hard to discipline, but it IS the key, along with consistency.
It sounds like you're trying to "do the right thing", but she is able to sense that you might "give in". I think she's learned that you will "tire" of her shrieking and give in.
There were some really good responses this morning to the mom who is trying to start "time outs" with her 2 yr. old son. Maybe you should read her responses. You might get some ideas on how to handle your 3 yr old teenager :o)
Good Luck.

N.

I have a strong willed girl just turned 4. In her time-outs she likes to cry loudly or use a sound I can't describe, but is very irritating. Consistency is the key to all discipline. I'm not perfect, but after time-out, I explain why she got it and request an apology. If there is no apology, the time out continues. After spending a long time in the corner, she apologizes. Amidst the tears and torturing saddness, I find when I endure and out-last her antics, she responds better. I don't hug on her or let her sit or lay down after the time out until I get the apology. But outlasting their actions is tough. (I have 5 children total, so it takes time and I'm usually tired, but I try to prevail).
About speaking over you, she knows she can get to you, so she'll do it. You may yell at this point or are tempted to lose your cool. Speak softly and slowly, and use the time out until behavior changes. This may require a lot of time in time out and take most of your day, be prepared for that, once she learns the boundary, it WILL get better, I promise! Good luck! You can do it!

Oh sister I can relate! I have found "extinction" behavior works very well for us. Sometimes if I feel that my three year old really doesn't recall what the time out is for I will give a hint that may trigger the memory. If she's talking over you, remove her from yourself with as little reaction as possible. As you know three year olds are all reaction! She may not feel sorry after her time out. We opt for the verbage of what was your time out for? And then from there get a sense for if the apology would be real anyway. If you take attention from the shrieking { I know not easy!} eventually you may find that it stops . This is what I mean by extinction. And by all means keep your cool! They feed on our energy as well stay responsive, avoid reaction.
Good luck with your choices:}
Shauna

Put her back in time out when she won't apologize.
Give her the "silent Treatment" when she is being obnoxious - don't even acknowlege her if she's screaming & do the opposite of what she wants when she screams.
Make sure her time out spot is isolated and boring - can't see or hear TV or look out a window.
Stay cold & calm - go into robot mode. Avoid eye-contact and withold affection until she says sorry. She needs to know you're in charge, not her and making you mad is not the way to get things done.
When she is good - praise her & thank her for picking up toys or any helpful behavior. She may be jealous of the baby so make sure you spend solo time with just her and at least once a day say "I'm sorry baby - I can't hold you now I have to do so & so for your Big Sister!" Because I'm sure she hears you're busy with the baby a lot.
We tried everything with our son for tantrums & screaming - including popping him on the cheek when he screamed and none of it worked. Completely ignoring him & time outs finally did the trick - we also had to take away all of his toys and movies a few times. Now when he starts a tantrum we put him in time out until he can calm himself down and he usually apologizes on his own after. Our son really gets upset if he thinks we are mad at him and usually shapes up pretty quick.
Good Luck!
A.

S.,
My son used to act up in time outs sometimes. Sometimes he would try to scoot away from his spot, and we would move him back and add time to his timeout, telling him we were doing so, which worked. When he would yell or complain about his time out, we just ignored it. We explained to him that we will not have conversations with him while he is in a time out. We were extremely consistent, which I think is really important. As for the apology, our son knows he is in a time out until both the timer goes off and he says he's sorry for X. If for any reason the time out isn't working, we go towards more concrete consequences, such as taking a favorite toy away for the rest of the day. We try to connect the consequence to the behavior whenever possible. One last thought: perhaps your daughter is having a hard time adjusting to life with a sibling and is trying to get attention through bad behavior.
Good luck!
K.

Sounds like a strong will, maybe some jealously over baby brother?

Nonetheless, what I used with my 3 yr old (now 18) strong willed daughter was, "Time out starts when you are quiet". If she continues to shriek, remove her from your presence until she is ready to begin her time out (explain this to her). "Go work out your anger, then you will return when you are quiet and ready to start your time out".

Practice "apologizing" in made up scenarios when there isn't an issue at hand. Make up a story and teach her how to apologize, "I'm sorry for ..., will you forgive me?" There are some good Franklin books on apologizing, manners, and such.

Good luck, sigh!

I have a 4 year old boy and an almost 3 month old boy too. I feel for you this is very difficult to deal with. I feel you are on the right track, my son went through a faze where he did something similar every one said it was because he was jelous I dont think I agree with that but to each their own. I think it is just a way to test to see what they can get away with if you are consistant and stay with the same rules she will get tired of being put on time out. Remind her of fun games to pick up my son loves the ("Little Bill" movie where you rhyme with the toy to pick up and put away toys.) anything fun encourages her to do what you want. With the no I dont argue I just put him on time out and say "when you are ready to listen we will discuss the issue and we can talk" I dont talk until he calms down and says he's ready good luck hopefully this helps.

Hi S.,

On occasion, I find that just leaving the room helps. I think it has something to do with the attention they are wanting in the first place. I will usually say something like, "This is the end of the discussion"...and I leave the room. The first couple times my son was incensed that I would actually leave the room and not listen. He would scream even louder...stomp...bang stuff and it was really, really hard not coming back until he quieted down. Now, it is less of a struggle b/c he knows that I am not talking to him agian until he quiets down.

The apologize part for me too is hit or miss....sometimes I can get it and sometimes I cant. That part of the equation I have not worked out yet either...if you find something great, let me know!

Good luck!

let her shriek and stay in time out until she's ready to act in an appropriate manner. 3 years is old enough to know what's acceptable and I guarantee she KNOWS raiding her voice isn't.

Anyway, I found that just about every one of my kids bad behaviors has always been caused by MY actions. like your raising your voice over hers... Starting today, dont raise your voice, either walk away or put her in time out.

that's my advice. it's not easy, takes a lot of hard work on YOUR part, and it requires consistency.

Best of luck

My daughter is almost 4, and she's behaving in many of the same ways as your daughter. I'm finding that it has to do with the baby (our son is 5 months old) and her desire to get attention from me -- whether it be in a positive or negative manner. I've been trying to get her to take "good behavior naps," and that's been helping. She quit napping regularly at about 2 1/2. I think that she's growing now again (seems always hungry too), and being overtired really does make her regular 3-year-old behavior that much worse. My daughter is actually looking forward to the naps, as I try to reward her after she wakes up. Good luck. Girls are real pistols.

I use the laundry room for time out, sometimes my 4 year old will scream for minutes and tell me I can't, I can't (say what he needs to in order to get out of timeout) but finally he does. Closing the door seems to help move him along because he hates to be in there with the door closed. Maybe finding a new place for time out would help you too. I have found that I have to just leave him there even if it is longer than I want to until he tells me what I need him to in order for him to come out.
N.

S.,

I also have a 3-year old who has lots of character, and some of my issues with him are similar to those you have with your daughter.

What I do when he's "acting out" (that means totally not obeying and just being generally naughty) is take him in my arms and contain him for a while -- I always find a place to sit. Sure, at first he'll scream and ask to be released, but I won't let go until he can calm down enough to control himself. I'll kiss him, and whisper in his ear, "no, I won't let go until you've calmed down" (might take 2-3 minutes, or more), then when he does, sure enough once I let go he turns to me for a long cuddling hug. At this point, while still hugging him, I can talk to him about what he's done wrong, or even wait until later. This depends, and is your choice. Your child will understand she's crossed the line.

Speaking of, let her know what the limitations are, and stick to them, no matter what, with the occassional compromise. Just be very clear, so she knows you mean business. For example, my son wants to hold a stick in the car, and the rule is that all sticks must be on the floor when we drive. He almost got me recently when he asked to hold just a small twig, after all, what's the harm in this? I decided to keep to the rules, so he knows I am serious about them. On the other hand, yesterday he wanted to jump down the stairs of his day care (he jumps 2-3 steps at a time while I hold his hand) and my compromise was to tell him, "no you must walk down normally, and at the last two steps you can jump." A child has to save face from time to time, right?

I do notice when he's tired he's much more awnry and naughty, so it's true regular sleep and consistent meal times will help. I hope she takes a mid-day nap, and even if she insists she won't, you insist the rules are that even if she doesn't sleep she must stay in her bed - with a 99% chance she will sleep. I've also decided to set time limits on his bedtime ritual. We can read for 15 minutes, then "goof off" for 10-15 max (tickles, hugs, blow kisses), but I will give him a 2-3 minute warning and if he wants me to be there to tuck him in, and give him a small back rub and a goodnight kiss, then he has to be down in bed and willing to stay there. It works! Or, if it doesn't, he gets one last chance. I will tell him that I'll leave if he doesn't cooperate and he can tuck himself in bed!

The more you set clear limitations, with clear, simple, instructions, the more your child will obey and listen. And, stay patient and as calm as possible, when she's naughty, as that's important both for her and you.

As for the time outs, I gave up on these, now that he's three, given that for him they really were not working. I just stop him in his behavior, get down to his level and say "no, I'm going to need to stop you until you can learn to stop yourself." (Terry Brazelton, pediatrician - do get his book on discipline which you can find on the internet) Then I can explain to him what he did wrong and try to get him to tell me in his own words after that. I find this helps for him to start taking responsibility over his actions.

As for not saying sorry, if I ask my son to do so and he won't, I just don't insist. He knows he's suppose to, and may just not feel like it. Then again, sometimes he really surprises me, saying sorry at the appropriate time without even being asked. So, don't put too much pressure on your daughter for this. It will come.

I am sure you'll get more good advice, but honestly, the containment in arms and the clear limitations has been a real life saver for me.

Good luck!

I also have a 3 year old and struggle in the discipline area. I have found that taking away something that he is currently playing with does the trick. Time outs didn't really work for me put the taking away certainly does. I hardly have to ask for an "I'm sorry" anymore. Good luck.

I have 2 almost-4 year olds. My daughter is a screamer too. My best advice is to ignore her when she's shrieking in time out. She's only doing it because she knows it pushes your buttons. OR you can tell her (calmly) that her time out starts only AFTER she stops screaming. And keep starting over the time if she starts again. This may take you an hour to get through a 3 minute time out the first time, as she will test you, but if you stay consistent, she will learn that it won't get her anywhere. Be patient and it will pay off!! Getting her to apologize is like anything else you expect from her - take away (something important to her) until you get what you want from her. But use that method in a targeted way - if you do it too often, it won't be effective. Consistency is the key - if you expect something from her, tell her that clearly and then follow through - don't give in. You're the adult. Good luck. Email me if you wnat to discuss more.

As a former preschool teacher, and now as a nanny and parent, I understand what you are going through. In the school I taught at it was our philosophy to never make a child apologize. At that age they can't comprehend what it is to be sorry, and really most the time they're not. Although she could say the words they may not actually match her emotions. We would move the child away from where the negative behavior was occuring and let them no they were not able to return until they were able to be safe or kind, which a three year old should be able to understand. We didn't give time outs, which as a parent I understand is a little more difficult. Like I said we just moved them away from the area where the behavior was occuring to "take a break". Ex: If they were throwing sand in the sandbox, they would be asked to leave the sandbox and find somewhere they would be able to play safely. If they were unable to make the choice, we would make it for them. To return to the area, they would come and let us know they were ready to play safe and ask if they could return.
Hope this helps! Good luck!

I'm in a parenting class and there were 4 people last night who had similar challenges with their 3 yr olds. Seems to be a reaction to having a new sibling. You may want to help her feel special and respected and let her help with the baby in whatever ways you can.