Could I be overlooking something about my husband's behavior?

Family & Parenting Marriage & Relationships
41

Scarlett, can you make yourself scarce on the weekends when the kids are gone? It sounds like he only behaves himself with the kids around you. It also means that he CAN control himself, that he actually DOES know that he shouldn’t talk that way, but he does it on purpose to either hurt you or show dominance.

I know you see the good in him, but I swear, if I thought I had to look “forward” to that every weekend, I would not be in my house at all. And I would initiate divorce proceedings once my kids moved out, because life is too short to be crapped on by someone who would likely outlive me.

Please put some money aside in a bank deposit box so that you have a nest egg for later. You never know when the emotional abuse will turn to physical. And the way his personality seems to be presenting, (the fact that he does it out of earshot to your kids), he would most likely hit you where it wouldn’t “show”. (If it turns physical.)

Please, take financial precautions, Scarlett.

Dawn

42

I’ve always tried to see the good.

However, it’s only a matter of time before your kids do see or pick up on this. My ex NEVER did this type of crap in front of anyone else… For years. But he did eventually.

43

I had to wade through murky waters with my husband for years. I also felt naive . But I saw a glimpse of the man i loved and tried my best to find him and eventually did.

44

I think we all have the capacity for Jekyll / Hyde personality.

But as adults, we should learn to control IT, and not let IT control US.

I think that over time, this closet behavior will seep into other areas, it will surface eventually to being in front of the kids.

That’s when you really need to plan ahead and decide at what point do you step out of denial, away from naivete, and into acceptance?

If you can tolerate his all too human blow ups, because, let’s be real, we have all lost it…we are not perfect…I accept that. But what happens after the blow up? Do we apologize, take responsibility, show remorse, try to find alternative ways to cope? That would be one of the deciding factors for me, as to how long I could hold onto a marriage before my lack of respect destroyed it.

45

I don’t think you’re naive. I think you are clinging to the idea of this man. He might have “good” qualities. BUT he CHOOSES to abuse you. He CHOOSES to not change. He CHOOSES to be this other side, too. A man who CHOOSES to be that way, is not a great man. He is a man who hides the bad a lot of the time, but doesn’t even care when he can’t. I think you are scared. It’s always easier to just deal with the pain, then to separate from it. At least, that’s how it seems.

Yes, you have kids to this man. You have to make that choice that is so heart breaking. Do you owe it to them to stick it out? Or, do you owe it to them, to show them it’s not acceptable to be treated that way? Only you can choose. You have to remember, that they will grow up thinking you treat woman this way, or you allow yourself to be treated this way. They will likely treat their spouse the way you are being treated, or they will accept being treated that way. You have to decide, if you are willing to allow that happen. If sticking it out, it setting them up to live in the turmoil you live in now. I hope you find a way to make a choice you feel is right, and that you feel comfortable with.

A healthy relationship is respect. The respect to be willing to own up to your mistakes and shortcomings. The respect to change damaging behaviors. The respect to love your spouse and children enough, to admit when something is wrong. The respect to not refuse help. Yes, we all make mistakes. We all have faults. A GOOD man and a GOOD marriage, involves changing when it’s needed. It involves respecting your spouse enough, to seek help for abusive behaviors and toxic traits. THAT is a healthy relationship and individual. Please…and I do NOT intend this to be mean…stop making excuses for this man. Your post here, is littered with them. Please stop protecting his value, when he shows you none.

46

Good morning Scarlett,

I’m so glad you keep posting.

JUST to answer your question, your feelings are very, very normal. You have known your husband for years. While we do not have a relationship with your husband, you do. You see how he is human, how he is kind, what qualities attracted you to him in the first place. Besides that, you are a genuinely kind person. You want to work it out, to see the best in people.

Have you ever heard the story of the scorpion and the turtle? I found this version on the internet:

A turtle was happily swimming along a river when a scorpion hailed it from the shore.
A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. “Are you mad?” exclaimed the turtle. “You’ll sting me while I’m swimming and I’ll drown.”
“My dear turtle,” laughed the scorpion, “if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you, and drown as well. Now where is the logic in that?”
The turtle thought this over, and saw the logic of the scorpion’s statement. “You’re right!” cried the turtle. “Hop on!” The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river the scorpion gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly said:
“Do you mind if I ask you something? You said there’d be no logic in your stinging me. Why did you do it?”
“It has nothing to do with logic,” the drowning scorpion sadly replied. “It’s just my character.”

This allegory reminds me of abusive relationships.

From what I’m hearing, your husband is really fantastic at staying in control. He picks and chooses when he is cruel, controlling, coercive, threatening, violent (punching walls is physical abuse - it’s a threat). He doesn’t do it in front of your children, his boss, or in the store. He’s not getting angry and loosing control - he is systematically choosing to hurt you. He’s choosing to intimidate and berate you. It doesn’t sound like he has showed a willingness to change.

Typically, an abusive person will show remorse or make promises to change when their partner IS changing (when they leave). They’ll do what they can to regain control, through promises and apologies. More often than not, those promises prove empty.

This might be helpful:
Signs That He Has Changed

He is willing to wait however long it takes for her trust in him to be rebuilt, and does not pressure her to forgive or reconcile until she is ready.

He does not say or do things that threaten or frighten her.

He listens to and respects her opinion, even if he disagrees.

She can express anger or frustration toward him without being punished or abused.

He respects her “no” in all situations, including physical contact.

He does not prevent her from spending time with friends and family, and does not punish her later.

He is willing to continue counseling as long as necessary.

He takes responsibility for his actions, and does not blame her for his bad behavior.

He is kind and attentive instead of being demanding and controlling.

When he becomes frustrated or angry, he does not take it out on his wife or children.

When he fails, he admits his mistake and takes responsibility for changing abusive behavior.

He admits to his abusive behavior, and stops trying to blame or cover up.

He acknowledges that all the abuse was wrong, and identifies all the ways he used to justify his abusive behavior.

He acknowledges that his abusive behavior was not a loss of control, but a choice on his part.

He recognizes and is able to verbalize the effects of his abuse on his spouse and children.

He identifies attitudes of entitlement or superiority, and talks about the tactics he used in maintaining control. He replaces distorted thinking with a more positive and empathetic view.

He consistently displays respectful behavior toward his wife and children.

He wants to make amends for the harm he has caused.

He is committed to not repeating his past behavior, and realizes it will be a life-long process.

He is willing to hear feedback and criticism, is honest about his failures, and is willing to be held accountable for abusive thinking and behavior.

“Beware of the temptation to gauge change by means of the perpetrator’s church-going behavior. Going to church is not good enough . . . does not prove that he is no longer going to hurt her.” —Woman-Battering

He Has Not Changed If . ..

He blames her or others for his behavior.

He uses guilt to manipulate her into dropping charges or keeping silent.

He does not faithfully attend his treatment program.

He pressures her to let him move back in before she is ready.

He will not admit he was abusive.

He convinces others that she is either abusive or crazy.

He demands to know where his spouse is and whom she is with.

He uses her behavior as an excuse to treat her badly.

He continues to use sarcasm or verbal abuse, talk over his wife, and shows disrespect or superiority.

He does not respond well to complaints or criticism of his behavior when he slips back into abusive behavior.

He continues to undermine her authority as a parent, and her credibility as a person.

His mindset about women has not changed, even though he avoids being abusive.

He criticizes his spouse for not realizing how much he has changed.

“Completion of a batterer’s intervention program class by a man does not mean his victim is safe or that he has stopped being abusive. While men may learn tools for acting nonviolently, research indicates that many men continue to be abusive, even if they change their tactics.” —Embracing Justice: A Resource Guide for Rabbis on Domestic Violence

If you go back too soon, the abuse will be worse and leaving again will be harder.

Steps to Change

  1. Admit fully to his history of psychological, sexual and physical abusiveness. Denial and minimizing need to stop, including discrediting your memory of what happened.

  2. Acknowledge that the abuse was wrong, unconditionally. He needs to identify the justifications he used, including the ways he blamed you, and talk in detail about why his behaviors were unacceptable, without defending them.

  3. Acknowledge that his behavior was a choice, not a loss of control.

  4. Recognize the effects his abuse has had on you and on your children, and show empathy for those. He needs to talk IN DETAIL about the impact that his abuse has had, including fear, loss of trust, anger, etc. And he needs to do this without feeling sorry for himself or talking about how hard the experience has been for him.

  5. Identify in detail his pattern of controlling behaviors and entitled attitudes. He needs to speak in detail about the day to day tactics of abuse he has used, identify his underlying beliefs and values that drove those behaviors, such as considering himself entitled to constant attention.

  6. Develop respectful behaviors and attitudes to replace the abusive ones he is stopping.

  7. Reevaluate his distorted image of you, replacing it with a more positive and empathic view. He has to recognize that he’s focused on and exaggerated his grivances against you. He needs to compliment you and pay attention to your strengths and abilities.

  8. Make amends for the damage he has done. He has to have a sense that he has a debt to you. He can start payment by being consistently kind and supportive, putting his own needs on the back burner for a couple of years, fixing what he has damaged, and cleaning up the emotional and literal messes he has caused.

  9. Accept the consequences of his actions. He should stop blaming you for problems that are the result of his abuse.

  10. Commit to not repeating his abusive behaviors. He should not place any conditions on his improvement - such as saying he won’t call you names as long as you don’t raise your voice.

  11. Accept the need to give up his privileges and do so. Stop double standards, stop flirting with other women, stop taking off with his friends while you take care of the children. He also is not the only one allowed to express anger.

  12. Accept that overcoming abusiveness is likely to be a life-long process. He cannot claim that his work is done by saying, “I’ve changed, but you haven’t.” or complain that he is sick of hearing about his abuse.

  13. Be willing to be accountable for his actions, both past and future. He must accept feedback and criticism and be answerable for what he does and how it affects you and the children.

I don’t believe you must make a decision today. I also don’t believe that you “should” have polar feelings - it’s okay to not feel sure, to feel confused, to feel overwhelmed. It’s a very overwhelming situation and process.

You are taking steps to care for yourself. You are taking steps to stay safe. That takes a LOT of courage. I’d like to congratulate you for your hard work thus far.

You might be feeling pressured to make decisions that you are not ready to make. This is not an easy situation, and that pressure helps us to feel more unsure, more obligated, more controlled/pressured. If at all possible, I’d like to suggest that you attempt to quiet your mind and body and let the “shoulds” slide away.

What do you want? What do you deserve? Considering that abuse is usually, usually, usually progressive (gets worse over time) and that change takes a long time, are you willing to continue being treated the way he treats you?

When I feel pressured, I start to panic. It’s not empowering. It doesn’t help me to stay sane or safe. It’s hard for me to remove that pressure, but if I can, it’s easier for me to consider my options and make my OWN choices. It is easier to stay safe.

You are doing a wonderful job Scarlett. You are very brave and very strong. You are not alone.

Power and control wheel (helps identify abusive behavior)

Equality wheel (helps identify healthy behavior):

47

I have never experienced what you are going through. All I can tell you is about my cousin.

She married an man who was abusive to her…we all saw it…she couldn’t see it the way we did/could. I always wondered if he was that awful around family what hell she lived though behind closed doors. (I found out later it really was hell).

They had three kids and she stuck it through for them…and now they are grown and she finally got the courage to leave him. The oldest he is for the most part okay…married to a manipulative woman, but they seem happy and there is no abuse…just he lets her have her way. Her two daughters however are a whole different story…neither are married. One is in a very long term relationship where he controls her and all the decisions…she feels suck and unhappy but will not leave (no kids). The other girl is in counseling to find out why she keeps dating men who end up physically abusing her…well, duh, it was all she saw growing up at home.

What I see is now that she is free and finally happy and no longer being abused…I see her children suffering and she wishes so badly she left sooner so that her daughters would not have the relationship issues and self image issues they have because of growing up with their father. She is finally free and her kids are still locked in the cage of that bad marriage/upbringing.

Children notice so much more than we think they notice…keep a close eye on your kids…because you can choose to be free from him whenever you decide enough is enough…be careful that your kids don’t end up learning behavior that effects their future marriages/relationships that later you can’t free them from…that they will have to undo that damage themselves.

I am sending you a huge hug and lots of support woman to woman…whatever you decide I know you will make sure to protect yourself and your children. There are many ladies on here who have great advice if you decide to leave…listen to them. As long as you stay be safe…we care about you here and want the best for you. Only you can decide what that is…

48

Sounds like a possible case of Bi-polar, can’t hurt to discuss it with the therapist. He is not a diagnostician but could show you the symptoms in the DSM 4.

49

If you’re so stupid and such a bitch, why does he stay with you? If the marriage isn’t fixable, then why hasn’t he moved on? If he doesn’t want to listen to you, then why should you bother addressing it (to fix it) anymore? These are the things you need to think of to put whatever grievance he has about you back on him. I wish you love and safety in the near future. You’re going to need both. I am sorry you have to deal with a man like this. No, this is not normal behavior, and yes, you may have been naive when you married him, but you aren’t anymore, When we know more, we do better. Do better.

50

So, verbal & emotional abuse by a husband, to a wife, is acceptable as long as the kids are not present, and he is in every other way, a good husband? Of course it isn’t. You know this. I guarantee your kids have heard the awful words he’s spoken to you, so you’re fooling yourself if you are trying to say that they haven’t. You are excusing his shitty behavior.

You, yourself stated that he won’t go to counseling - to me this is a HUGE red flag. It means he sees nothing wrong with the name calling & yelling, and is minimizes his mistreatment you. He is saying that he doesn’t want to change, or work on things, or better the marriage. I know divorce is hard, but really? Wake up, he’s a jerk, plain & simple. Chemical imbalance or just how he is, a real man, a good man, would be admitting he had an issue & doing whatever he could to help his marriage & himself.

He has you under his thumb, under his spell. He WILL NOT change, because he thinks he’s perfect. How can you “make it work”, when he sees nothing wrong? Nothing will change. I know you want to stay married, but why? Why don’t you value yourself enough to know that you & your kids deserve better?

This is a high likelihood of escalating, not getting better. He WILL NOT wake up & have an epiphany, he will not wake up a different person. His outbursts will get worse, and he might also possibly get physical. You love the man & are idealizing him. Until you can see him for what he is, you are wasting your time & spinning your wheels in a marriage that will never be what it should be, or needs to be.

51

I don’t think you are naive so much as trying to rationalize and justify his negative behavior and why you are still married to him. You may feel you owe it to your kids to make it work but what about him? Is he doing all that he can to make it work or is it all you? Marriage is supposed to be about love, about supporting and empowering one another, about raising your kids in a loving, nurturing environment and setting an example of what marriage and parenthood should be. My husband and I are not perfect and we have our moments that we are less than proud of, but our home is a happy one - we are not swearing at each other, we are not insulting each other, we treat each other with kindness and respect. We are each others best friend.

The thing is your husband may not do these things to you in front of the kids, but he is doing them, and that’s not okay. Based on your other posts, if he’s such a fantastic father that adores his kids, he’s got a weird way of showing it. Personally, I don’t think he sounds fantastic at all - he sounds like a bullying jackass. There’s a lot more to being a good husband and father than bringing home a paycheck.

I’m glad you are going to counseling, and I hope between that, and what’s been posted on here in response to your questions, that you will start to see that you deserve better.

52

Scarlett, I just want you to know that I read a few of the responses (not many) and just had to reply to let you know you are not alone. My husband by all intents and purposes is a good man. For what he has lived through, he is amazing. I know he tries hard and fights his “demons” and really wants our marriage to be good. However, he DOES talk down to me, undermine me and generally treat me badly…but…I just couldn’t walk away. There are so many feelings and concerns. I have five children that I just don’t see how I could support. We already live on a TIGHT budget, and I don’t know how we could make it with less…I don’t want my children to grow up seeing this behavior and thinking this is what a marriage is or that the demeaning is okay. I would love nothing more than to experience a loving relationship and to have them learn by imitation. I would love to know what I could be like if I didn’t have someone telling me all of my faults all of the time and instead built me up.

But… I think if you are not there…living in it…maybe no one else can understand the risk involved. Or maybe I just don’t have enough courage? I don’t have answers, but I just wanted you to know you are not alone.

53

scarlett, I feel your pain. I have 5 children, and have been married to the same man for 19 years. my husband has always been a good provider and essentially a good father. he has also been respected in our community as well as in our church. we were always in every bible study, we havetaught couples bible study as well as marriage prep classes. everyone believed that we had the perfect marriage and believed that he was an amazing man. but he was 1 person in front of people, and a different man behind the scenes. just like your husband he has redeeming qualities. however, there was a lot of disrespect, belittling, and got worse as time went on. you see everything was always my fault dinner was never cooked right, the house never clean enough the kids were never good enough because I wasn’t a good enough mother. pretty much anything that happened was always my fault because I wasn’t good enough. I am a very strong as well as independent and confident person, but in the instance of marriage I was willing to do anything to save it. I believed it was more important for us to stay together and work through things because of our 5 children. I wanted to save the marriage for the children to grow up well adjusted and not come from a broken home. what I didn’t realize was it was already broken. there were little things when the kids were little, but as the kids got older it got more and more. he started putting me down, just little things at first. but I didn’t want to cause a scene in front of the kids, so I would wait until it was just the 2 of us. I would ask him not to treat me like that in front of our children, or treat me like that when it was just the 2 of us. he always says he treated me that way because I acted that way. I’d never felt that I did but… I always felt like maybe he’s right. As I look back, how he treated me got worse when he had an affair. he treated me with a lot of dis respect and disregard. most of the affairs I didn’t know about until after, but I felt the shift in how he treated me, because he didn’t care for me or treat me with any respect. with the last affair he left moved out and I thought I needed to save the marriage. and again the reason he had an affair, and all of the affairs and the reason the marriage failed was my fault according to him. he has not taken responsibility or even apologized for the way he treated me many times over. however there were a few times he did apologize profusely and took a responsability. I share these things with you because there was never a complete change or any responsibility taken. now that we are going through a divorce, I see his patronizing ways, his disrespect of me, his blame game very clearly for what it has been. his children see his childish ways and disrespectful ways and his selfishness, and his anger. but now they see our home without him and the peace and the love and kindness and respect that we have for each other in my home. they now have the ability to see what is appropriate what is not because our homes are such polar opposites. they still love their father but they see his flaws more clearly. and they have learned many times that because their father does it, it doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. sometimes it’s just been the little things like throwing trash out the window or lying to somebody or cheating somebody that drove me crazy. but I see things crystal clear now those are not normal or appropriate or anything that I want in my home ever again. what you have is a hard decision that you need to pray about and decide what you deserve and your children deserve. nobody else can judge you for what you do or don’t do. and whatever you do it may take time to make that decision, but you do have a choice to continue to live with his disrespect or not. remember if he doesn’t take any responsibility, and he won’t go to counseling or try to change on his own, it will never get better and it will probably get worse. I will pray for you and if you ever need anyone to talk with, get in touch with me. Good luck!

54

One response suggested the possibility of bipolar disorder. Although it is possible and I have seen some handle the disorder better than others, the fact that he is able to completely control his rage in front of the children suggests to me that he has more control than an unmedicated person suffering from bipolar disorder.

But, there are many possibilities. There are people who suffer with severe anxiety, with borderline personality disorders, or have simply not overcome a traumatic emotional experience from childhood. He may feel locked in some emotional cycling he simply hasn’t learned to process or manage maturely. It is quite possible that the abusive treatment you are receiving is not actually intended to harm you. You may well be the only person he feels safe enough to expose these emotions to and does not know how to express what is truly bothering him. The mind, when confused about what we are feeling, will automatically try to blame others as a defense/survival mechanism.

In my experience both in my personal life as well as with interactions with the families I work with, it is helpful to recognize explosive emotions as disregulation of our brains’ control mechanisms. I do not feel he should be allowed, as an adult, to treat you abusively. But, you can learn how to not be abused when he is losing control. I have found that education and training, in many circumstances, accomplishes more than counseling.

There is a parenting program called Beyond Consequences. You can go to the website and decide if you want to buy the book, the DVDs, or take the online course. This course was designed to help parents guide children with emotional and behavioral difficulties. But, what Heather Forbes teaches is really good education for all parents. It works beautifully along with the parenting techniques taught by The Virtues Project, which I feel is the most enlightened approach to effective and successful parenting.

Your husband may not wish to go to counseling where he might be confronted or feel too exposed. He may fear humiliation. Honestly, I don’t blame him. I have seen too much of that actually go on in the name of therapy. But, he might be willing to learn with you. I asked my husband to watch just about 5 minutes of one of Heather Forbes’ DVDs with me so he could better understand how to support me when I am over-stressed and on the verge of disregulating. Just that little bit had a very profound effect on his ability to be supportive and understanding under stress.

In so many cases, you can find the understanding to work through and grow from these challenges in a marriage. But, something has to be done differently than simply accepting the repetition of oppressive and abusive behaviors. A client I once worked with explained that her husband had become very critical and grumpy at the breakfast table and she did not know what to do. We came up with a plan. Whenever he would start criticizing her, she would pick up her plate and say something like, “Dear, you seem to have forgotten how precious I am. I think I better have my breakfast in another room before I forget how precious you are.”

I feel it is very important for you to know that you are only hurt by his words if you accept them and agree with them. There is one thing my husband used to say to me early in our marriage. He did not know how it devastated me when he said it. In a moment when things were calm and he was listening, I explained to him how, because he is my husband, his words have great power in my mind and in my heart. I explained that I do not want to disrespect his words. I want to trust him completely. But, when he would say this one manipulative thing, if I let that in as something he truly believes, I shut down inside and lose some of my love for life and belief in myself. So, I asked that he never say that one phrase to me again. In 25 years, he only forgot twice and let it slip out, but immediately apologized. We have to learn how to draw our boundaries and tell our spouses what we need in a manner that is kind and respectful rather than demanding and critical. Then our boundaries are far more likely to be respected.

I hope at least some of these thoughts are helpful for you. Your husband and your family are lucky to have your devotion.

55

My husband has a side that I don’t like very much either, and I question our relationship during those times. I feel stuck. But then…we talk about our fight, and it’s like I fall back in love with him again. I can’t stand someone losing their temper over seemingly small things. Hope things have gotten better for you, and best of luck with working on your marriage. But, I really think that he is out of line for calling you a bitch or otherwise.

56

Scarlett: How many more times, on this site, are you going to tell us what a jerk your husband is to you? It’s like you want sympathy or advice, but don’t take it. You are an abused wife. I gave you a shelter’s phone number yesterday…use it. Maybe a little wake-up call, such as leaving with the kids, will get him to therapy. Stop looking for help here and take action for you and your kids to have a safe life.

57

Naive? Hell no.

But…

What a lot of people don’t get about abuse is that it isn’t constant. Well, it is for some (rare) people… but for most of us there’s a REASON we love our spouse.

They’re funny, kind, loving, charming, respectful… MOST of the time. Then they act like jerks, and we forgive them a bad day. Because that’s NORMAL. Everyone has a bad day.

The difference with abusers? Most people have a bad day a couple times a year. And when they do, they generally try to AVOID their loved ones. They out and out say “I’m in a terrible mood, I need to not be around people.” or one of a hundred variations.

Abusers, though? It isn’t a couple times a year, and it isn’t constant… it’s a PATTERN.

When they’re stressed, tired, hungry, stuck in traffic, don’t like their shoes, the toilet jams, someone left a glass on the counter…

ANYTHING that makes them unhappy… ANYTHING AT ALL… and we’re the targets of their discontent.

It’s not a mental issue… because they don’t sneer, shout, or slam things at/around their boss, or their friends, or the cashier at the gas station. OTHER PEOPLE get the “happy” version of our spouse. WE sometimes get that person (and kids learn FAST to try to keep the parent happy to avoid their mocking derision or tempers… so so so sick), but don’t just get Dr. Jekyll. We get Mr. Hyde.

How often our beloved (funny, charming, smart, kind, loving) spouse turns on us is specific to them. Once a week? Any time they “have” (so insulting when it’s a “have” instead of a “get”) to spend more than x number of hours with us? Whenever someone cuts them off in traffic? When someone gets promoted above them? When the kids are going through a NORMAL developmental period? When we don’t wear makeup? Or are sick? Or the house isn’t spotless? Or, or, or, or?

What triggers the asshole is different in all abusers… as is the level to which they are willing to take their abuse. Maybe it makes them feel powerful to hit. Maybe it makes them feel powerful to intimidate ((punching walls is MAJOR intimidation, btw… it’s the “IMAGINE what if this wall was you? LOOK at the damage I can do and the SELF CONTROL I’m exerting, because reeeeeally this wall should be YOU. Shape. Up.” (gag me, pathetic little man) ))

People DO NOT GET why people stay with abusive spouses.

WE STAY BECAUSE IT’S NOT ALWAYS ABUSIVE.

If it was always abusive, it would be an easy and clear cut decision to leave. Hullo. We’re not stupid.

But it’s NOT all the time.

((You hear over and over again with abused and battered women “It didn’t used to be so bad”. Which gets sneered at by a lot of people. BUT IT REALLY DIDN’T. Something sets “them”, some kind of event… and it goes from NORMAL, once a week tantrums where no one ever gets hurt to being in the freakin’ ER. But by then, there’s so many years of GOOD years, of things NOT being so bad, that the loving spouse forgives their usually loving husband. And then it happens again. What space you’re in RIGHT NOW? The same one I’m in. The “it’s not so bad” years. Where they do this little self control dance, where they keep pushing things up to our limit and BACKING OFF. What this dance does is STRETCHES OUR LIMITS.

Imagine, for a moment… if your husband had acted like this while you were dating, how FAST you’d have dropped him. If a REPAIR GUY said the things he does to your kids (or a boyfriend, neighbor, etc.) how FURIOUS you’d be and how fast you’d report them, dump them, tell them that if they EVER spoke to your child like that again

But YEARS of normal bad days turning into a pattern of bad days, and the bad days getting worse… have CHANGED “normal”.

We put up with things we’d NEVER put up with in any other situation or circumstance… because we’ve trained ourselves to. We know tomorrow will be better.

In my own house… and if you’ve read some of my posts… you know my husband is an abusive prick. (hint: if you’ve gotten good at patching drywall, you “should” have left way back). THREE TO FOUR times a year. That’s how often I throw him out these days. I didn’t used to throw him out, but over the years it’s gotten worse.

Here’s OUR pattern (and yes, he’s also a “mini-prick” at least once or twice a week… but my version of “normal” has stretched so far into dysfunctional that those barely blip the radar anymore! How sick is that? Anyhow). He’s great for a month or two. Then he starts getting distant. Cold. Snipy. Mean. For about a month. And it’s FINE. BE GONE/distant. I don’t want to have to deal with you like this. And then a “month” of hell. Not physical abuse, just near constant derison, scorn, intimidation, lost tempers, slammed doors, etc.

In the past, we’d have a fight (or series of fights) about it. The WTF do you think you’re doing??? Hello! Knock it off!

But over the past few years, it’s changed. Because my son (ours, but when his dad is a prick, he’s “my” son) becomes a target. A simple game of catch? Dad looks away when kiddo throws the ball (short) and it hits him in the leg. And the BBQ goes flying. My son is SCREAMED at for not paying attention. Or kiddo doesn’t “move” fast enough and becomes a target. And a couple times when my husband flies into a rage enough to TRY to land a blow (I’m combat trained. I’d have to be drugged or my back turned for him to LAND a blow).

So NOW our pattern has shifted. The “month” of hell? It’s shortened to a day or two. Because I throw his ass out for a few weeks.

I don’t deserve ANY of it.
My son doesn’t deserve ANY of it.
But I’m trying to avoid divorce (my husband’s temper issues are 10x worse when it’s “just” my son and himself, and he’d get partial custody, and I can’t let that happen).

So I toss him out on his ear.

It’s (an almost) CLASSIC cycle of abuse. Things are “good” during the apologetic phase. Then they start going bad. Things begin to escalate until they come to a head of some form or another. Then it’s the apologies and the promises.

NO things didn’t start out this way.

It took 8 years for things to progress to this level (and then the past 2 years of living it).

Looking back… I should have left when our son was 3, six years ago. That’s when things REALLY started. When it went from the normal bad day everyone has from time to time to being TARGETS.

It IS MY FAULT. Not for my husband’s temper tantrums. Because I haven’t left. It’s NOT my fault that my husband is a prick. It IS my fault that I’ve stayed. I could have left. Any time in the past 6 years. The first 4 years, I had hope. Hope died 2 years ago. But still I stay.

My husband is VERY smart (he knows my limits better than I do, he knows EXACTLY how far he can push me). And he’s not a terrible person… MOST of the time. You still have the sweet moments, the laughter, the passionate moments, the best friend moments. The really cool conversations, the great parenting moments, the heart swelling tender moments with the kids.

But he’s an abusive SOB.

Because most people DON’T cross the line. That’s what makes them abusive. CROSSING THE F’ing LINE. Time. And. Time. And. Time. Again.

People don’t GET when they hear the WTF stories… that it’s NOT like that all the time, or even MOST of the time. Unless you’ve lived it. That’s what makes it SO freakin hard. Because most of the time, they are the person that you love.

Some day… you may be like me. Looking back knowing EXACTLY when you “should” have left.

I hope not.

Being an abusive prick doesn’t mean that the good stuff ‘goes out the window’. It’s just that they DO NOT balance, make up for, or EXCUSE crossing the line.

I have 2 lines in the sand. One = kicked out until I have the strength to ‘deal with’ (hint: if you have to ‘deal with’ your spouse, that’s a giant waving red flag) him again. The second is the line in stone / no coming back from that one. We cross the first one a few times a year. It’s only a matter of time until the second one gets crossed.

BTW… I wanted to do marriage counseling for years. It was a no go (for the same reasons your husband is giving). First time I threw him out, suddenly things became “serious”, and all of a sudden he was willing to go, as a condition of coming home. But then “stuff” came up. Big meetings at work, illness, plain old ‘forgetting’, not enough money, etc. So it didn’t happen. It’s REALLY HARD to throw out your spouse. It’s expensive, and dramatic. Having counseling happen as a condition of returning is pretty pointless. Becuase it’s reeeally hard to back that up. Esp when there are “valid” reasons not to go. A million and one excuses on why everything else was MORE important. And didn’t happen. And didn’t happen. That was 2 years ago (in fact, almost to the day, 2 years ago last month). For 2 years he “promised” to do counseling. I even asked for counseling for valentines day one year. Do you know when it started? Three months ago. Why? Because I was done. I’d tossed him last Feb (I was done, but he didn’t realize it), then our son got sick for 6months. So we held it together (we’ve always been good in a crisis). But then our son was better, I had surgery, and he became a prick. Again. Done. Filing done (almost). So his LAST card to play? He got into anger management and set up marriage counseling. Well, 2 years ago, that might have won me over. I’m in counseling with him now (our counselor is a little freaked), but hope died a looooong time ago.

These men… they’re SMART. They know EXACTLY how much they can get away with, with us. And they push it. YOU’RE OKAY with him not being in counseling, and he knows it. You’re not happy about it, but your husband doesn’t care about you being happy. I know that hurts… but if there’s something “big” and it makes you very unhappy, and he’s not wiling to. He doesn’t care about you being happy. He’ll only care once HE’S unhappy.

Which sucks. But he knows he doesn’t have to go. He knows your lines in the sand, probably better than you.

58

To me, the problem is not that he calls you names, it’s that when you tell him that it bothers you, he throws the blame back on you (“then stop being a bitch and I won’t have to call you one”). He is absolutely in control of his own behavior, and trying to make this about you is controlling and frankly, makes me worry that he could easily escalate to more physical abuse. Punching and breaking things in front of you is an implicit threat. He may not realize that he is what he is doing, but if he makes no effort to control his anger issues, the violence could be transferred from these substitutes to you at some point.

Again, I agree that everyone makes mistakes. If he blew up occasionally, but realized he was out of line and was making some effort to control himself, it wouldn’t be nearly as worrisome. The fact that he tells you he doesn’t have problem–that’s a huge red flag to me. What does your counselor say?

59

Scarlett, I’m not judging you, truly, but within these posts I get the opinion that you are beginning to realize that this is not how it is supposed to be, this is completely inappropriate and you are considering leaving. I can only imagine, but I’m sure that’s a terrifying notion. You say that you have no idea how a loving marriage is supposed to work, but it seems that at least you know that this is how one ISN’T supposed to work.

I do understand your point about people jumping on the bandwagon from a negative post, etc. and yes that’s the hard part with forums like this b/c we don’t know the other side, but be hoenst with yourself…given the information you are presenting (which appears to be all truthful and accurate), none of us can encourage you to stay when it seems so horrible, regardless of the posts of him being “nice”. It seems classically abusive in my opinion.

I’m glad that so far your children have been spared but do you think that will always be the case and are you truly sure your children have no idea? My father was an alcholic and said really horrible things to my mother and me and my brother and my mom thought I never heard the things he said to her. I did. It still haunts me.

I won’t say that you are naive, that seems negative, and I don’t want to cut you down. I do think that you are too close to the situation and you can’t see how these behaviors are tearing you apart so I hope that counseling serves you well and you get the answers you seek. Hugs!

60

I lived in a home where my mother was called names. She said the same thing, he never called her names around me, I was gone or in bed. I knew what was being said to her, don’t kid yourself, your kids know more than you think. There is NO reason you need to be called names! Don’t stay just because you have kids with him. Your happiness is just as important as your kids happiness.