I wonder something. When I post questions on here, most of the moms answering have “known” me for years. =) Meaning, I have been a familiar name on here for quite some time and I am not shy about talking about my kids, husband, good times and bad.
I have in the past on multiple occassions posted about how wonderful my husband can be. He is an amazing father, he loves our kids like you couldn’t imagine, he works hard at work to help support the family, he is fabulous with our money and is always looking out for the best interest of our family, he sticks up for me when someone else is putting me down, he thinks I am quite good looking and tells me so, we have tons of similar interest, are on the same page regarding religion, schooling, money, so on and so on.
So, then there is the “other side” of him. The side I have spoken of recently where when he gets mad I am “stupid” and I need to “f off” and I am a “bitch”. Where he yells at me and punches things and drives off angry and drives too fast and won’t listen to anything I have to say. And NONE of this is EVER in front of the kids. I mean that. He has NEVER called me a name like that in front of the kids. I honestly think he knows I would immediately grab them and leave. This always occcurs when they are gone or sleeping (and even when sleeping, never the big blow ups with screaming). I
Am I so naive to really think he is not such a bad guy? What I mean is this: I KNOW I deserve better than being called names and yelled at, but I have kids with this man and I owe it to the kids to try to make it work. And he adores them and is (usually) great to them. So I am naive to think I could actually make it work with someone like this? All of his good qualities go out the window?
Scarlett,
You husband is not a “bad” person. He’s a “sick” person and until his illness is treated, he will remain sick.
There is help out there for your husband.
When he is ready for it, he will find it.
Until then, you must decide if you want to stay for the ride as it is currently or wait it out from a distance.
It could be next week, next year or a decade. It’s a tough choice.
What you’re seeing are symptoms of his disease.
You cannot apply logic to an illogical situation, and I guarantee you that you will make yourself crazy IF you continue to try to do just that.
All the best!
Yay! ILY Scarlett! Didn’t see you for awhile, so glad to see you back!
Yeah, LOTS of times I would like to suffocate my guy while he’s sleeping (OMG his pix is in the dictionary next to ‘DICK’). However, I can’t imagine life without him.
It’s not naivety, it’s love!
**You know, I should’ve gone back and re-read your past few posts. Girl, we need to talk.
I think you’re seeing the good things about him. I also think you’re aware that the bad qualities CAN (will?) be learned by your children, even if they don’t see him punch things and call you names. The attitude and underlying anger is always there in an angry person, even when the person controls it.
It’s because you see the good things that I’m hoping you seek some counseling. If your husband won’t go with you, go yourself. His anger issues need some work, both by him (fixing them) and you (knowing how to deal with them when they happen). People do seek counseling to make their marriage better, not just to call the whole thing off.
I think you’re probably the only one that can answer that. It’s easy for someone to jump on here, type a few words about how you should pack up a leave and you don’t deserve that. You don’t deserve it it all but how big of a deal is it to you? Is it something that he’s willing to talk about and work on? Is this a sudden onset or has it been going on since the beginning? If it’s been a constant in your marriage then that means he’s probably always been like that and you knew that getting married.. No one can see the whole story and a lot of times when reading things on here only the bad sticks out, no one can see how loving he can be or how good of a provider he is.. I don’t think it has anything to do with being naive, more of what you can handle and what he’s willing to do about it.. If he’s not willing to even admit to having a problem then he obviously has a bigger problem but that’s up to you two to figure out. Good luck!
No, I don’t think this sounds like an impossible situation - but it does sound like one that needs to change. Just because he doesn’t do or say these things around the kids doesn’t make it ok, I wouldn’t imagine you are thinking to yourself “Oh, I’m so glad he calls me stupid when they are sleeping, how kind and thoughtful of him.”
I would tell him that you know how much he loves you, and because you love and appreciate him so much and want for your family to be whole and healthy that you NEED to go into counseling together and figure this out. He needs to know his triggers and have real workable ideas on how to NOT verbally abuse you. I have zero experience in this area and have never been to marriage counseling, but I’m sure there is someone out there who can change this pattern for you guys.
Staying in your marriage for your kids is not enough, you need to make your marriage whole for your kids - then you will truly be a happy family. Good luck, I really believe this is doable!
He doesn’t sound like a bad guy he sounds like he might need some anger management classes. Or like he might have PTSD. I have a very good friend who’s husband started acting like this after he got back from Afghanistan, He has gone through some counciling and anger management classes and he and they are doing much better.
sigh. Sometimes when my hubby really pisses me off, I tell him to f’ off and call him an ***hole. I know I should behave more like an adult, and I am working on being more respectful when I am really pissed, but sometime, just sometimes, it sure feels nice to just say “you jerk!”
I love my hubby tons. We have a great relationship (save for those common annoyances resulting from sharing your existence with someone else), but sometimes we do" fight," and not very nicely.
Is he willing to be play nicer? I want to play nicer, and I’m working on it.
Scarlett,
I can not remember for the life of me, what your religious convictions are. So not knowing, I usually assume most people believe in the bible or at least believe it’s a good book. So starting from that place…
Jesus forgives us and he tells us that we must be able to forgive others to be forgiven. There is the issue of safety. I would send my husband to jail or kick his bottom out the minute I don’t feel safe or the kids don’t feel safe.
However, the occaisonal name doesn’t mean that much to me. When you are getting put down daily, sometimes several times per day, it wears on the nerves and it’s damaging to the soul. But we need to be able to put our big girl or big girl pants on and accept that people go through hard days, have bad weeks, and even bad seasons. The occasonal B word is simply not that bad. Even the F-off is just his rather irate way of saying this conversation is over.
If this man is all the things you say he is, and I believe you, because I’m married to his twin I think, then NO, you don’t throw all his good qualities out the window.
BUT, it’s okay to be brutally honest with him about your need to make the right decisions for the future if he doesn’t seek some kind of help. Be it self help books, the Bible, a pastor, or a formal counselor, that really can be up to him.
Maybe I’m just desensitized to some things because I grew up with such a rage-a-holic and a drunk. But, my husband has come a long, long, long ways. I am the one these days that pops off with course words. I’m the one that usually gets my knickers in a twist. He takes it in stride and he KNOWS, that a lot of it is because he spent so many years treating me that way and he knows that I keep my nose in the Bible and listen to the right kinds of shows to keep my mind on track. But we all get tired and we all sometimes go through TOO MUCH.
Maybe a real life counselor could help guide YOU to make the decision.
I used to think a counselor was like Yoda and would tell me what to do.
To be honest, I had an abusive childhood and looked for someone normal to guide me. When I found one to tell me what to do, it was a disaster. I wish you peace so you will KNOW what the right answer is.
Apparently after seeing your posts yesterday, you have slept on it, and have woke with a new outlook? If you are convincing yourself on reasons why to stay with him, you might be naive… If you have more happiness in your life with him, then get things started, and MAKE HIM go to counseling. Don’t choose to live with someone because its easier. In 10 years from now, you will be in the same situation and wonder why you wasted your life with an unloving husband.
You have to give him your thoughts, tell him you’re ready to make your move, but you need to know WHAT if anything he is willing to do. If the answer is nothing, then lose him.
Maybe your husband has some sort of borderline personality disorder? Something he hasnt learned how to manage. He manages his frustration by yelling at you, when in all reality there are other ways to let off steam that just havent occured to him yet.
You say he only blows up when it’s just the two of you alone, maybe he’s uncomortable and doesnt know what to say or do without kids around as a distraction and those feelings make him lash out for whatever reason.
Most of us know our spouses triggers and they know ours. I don’t trigger my husband purposely unless I’ve had a few drinks and get cuckoo and say or do something annoying, which is usually for some sort of a reaction/attention.
During his mean episode what do YOU think sets him off? Maybe he needs/expects more undivided attention from you when you are alone and he’s not getting it so he gets pissy… Childish, I know, but something that he probably needs to work on obviously.
When you are alone with him and in a good spot, ask him about his expectations and how you can prevent these episodes, listen to what he says, you might find the problem easy to solve.
He sounds like a good husband in many ways and there is always room for improvement with ALL of us. Maybe you could vid one of his outbursts and play it to him some time so he can see how irrational and ridiculous he’s being, it could embarass him into a better mode.
Good people can have bad sides. I think that what he’s doing is still emotionally abusive to YOU and one day he may spill at the kids, too. I think that he needs to get help to deal with his anger management issues. Maybe he knows that yelling at the kids will be a deal-breaker for you, but you also need to stand up for yourself. You can tell him that you appreciate and love him for all those things you mentioned, but you are unhappy with his outbursts. They are hurtful. You can make it work, but he needs to do some work, too.
You can even start seeing someone for yourself to find out why you accept these behaviors and give you the strength to confront them.
Edit to add: Since your update, I feel I need to edit my own post. If he will not also attend counseling with you, then he’s deciding not to change. You keep going for you. I will tell you, though, that a number of people I know who went alone ended up divorcing. They realized that they were the only ones willing to change and it got to the point where they could no longer accept their partner’s behavior. You may have some tough times ahead, but hold your head up. If you divorce, it is not for not trying and sometimes a divorce is preferable to a home where the parents are so unhappy.
Once a week is not occasional, in my book. It’s a regular habit. It also sounds like you are the one controlling the situation by not fighting back when the kids are home so it’s not so much that he’s exhibiting self-control, but that he doesn’t have anyone to fight with so it doesn’t happen. His comments are abusive, and intended to hurt you. With abusive people, they blame you, but there is no amount of you twisting your behaviors to suit him that will make it stop. There are always 2 sides and we’re not there, but it sounds to me like his good qualities are overshadowed by these other behaviors.
Where to draw the line is something to discuss in therapy, but I would not accept being told that I deserved to be called a bitch because he felt like I was acting like one. That’s not adult communication. That is degrading.
If he sticks up for you in front of others, why the need to break you down in private? Is it an act of being a good father/husband? Does he manage the money to control it (how much do you know about your own finances)? Does he defend you in public to make himself look good? Does he work hard to support the family or does he work hard to stay out of the house? These are things to consider and address in therapy.
This is where I have the problem, what is life going to be like for you when the kids are grown and out of the house? You don’t say how often these “episodes” happen. If it’s once in a blue moon and things like he is saying and doing are just in the heat of the moment then I could probably deal.
If every day you are waiting in fear of the next episode then, no, I wouldn’t hang around. I could not live my life on edge all the time, and I wouldn’t want my daughter to feel that stress all the time either.
If I were in your shoes, (and I was engaged to a guy just like that, except the longer we where together, the fewer his good qualities became) I would tell him, “Everytime you act like this you push me further and further out the door. I understand that you are angry, but I won’t be treated like this.” Then I would walk right out the door, and come back later.
The thing is BOTH of you should be working to make a happy marriage, not just you. I don’t think you are naive, I’ve walked in your shoes, sometimes it’s hard to get to the point that you won’t take it anymore because when the relationship is good, it’s great. When it’s bad it’s terrible. Yeah, I’ve walked in your shoes.
I’ve not walked a mile in YOUR shoes. So I cannot answer that question for you - only you can.
I’ve walked my own path. I know my worth. I know you know yours. You know you deserve better. You can take the good with the bad. That’s true. It’s just how often the bad comes out.
I don’t think you are naive. I think you are a woman who sees the big picture. You know you are not happy - no one is all of the time. You know the things he says to you are wrong, inappropriate and all of the other things…
You owe it to the kids to keep them safe.
You owe it to the kids to show them that marriage is about mutual respect, admiration, love, friendship, etc.
You owe it to the kids to be a role model for acceptable behavior.
The only way I think you are naive if you think the kids don’t hear or see it. Even if they are asleep - you would be surprised at what they “GET”, hear in their sleep and see - even if you think they aren’t there.
They SEE the tension and feel it.
You are a woman who loves her husband warts and all - but he has some warts that you want taken off - that’s not naivete.
Please know you are not alone. You have support. You can do anything you set your mind to. You are a wonderful woman.
Obviously no one knows your entire situation better than you. But, to me, it sounds like he’s just a normal human male with some temper/anger issues.
Maybe he doesn’t really think that “stupid” “bitch” or even “f off” are such terrible words? I know my husband doesn’t necessarily think so, and I had to let him know how much I don’t like those words. He’s working on it, but when his temper flares, sometimes he forgets.
All the “bad” things you describe are things that I’m sure EVERY male has done/said at some point in time. The concern would be in the frequency at which it occurs. And I think it’s SO much better than he punches someTHING instead of someONE.
You’re only naive if you thinks things will change without work on his part and patience on yours. He sounds like a great guy when he’s not angry…definitely not worth giving up on yet!
Obviously, you have some doubt about your relationship otherwise you wouldn’t be asking. So, you know it isn’t the healthiest one.
Only you know where your line in the sand is. Is your question more about where that line should be?
My parents’ relationship was horrible. No physical abuse, but LOTS of mental abuse. He really put her down and when she kept changing everything about her to please him, he just kept belittling her.
She finally left him when I was 19. I still had two younger brothers at home. Those 19 years were miserable for all of us. It is that memory that I have makes me the strong woman I am today. My line may be a lot closer than others because of that.
I personally wouldn’t put up with being called names by my husband. But, my husband isn’t the type to do so. If he did, we’d have some serious conversations. I’m raising 2 girls and I will not let them think for one second that that type of behavior is acceptable. But, that is a hot button issue for me.
Can you have the conversation with him that his poor behavior is affecting you and that you won’t put up with it? Would he consider counseling?
Is he treating you this way because he feels like it is a safe outlet to get his frustrations out? Point it out to him that you are NOT his punching bag (although verbal). Suggest he find another method to release his tension and anger. Will this behavior escalate? When will you draw the line? Only you know.
My heart goes out to you. I’m sending you lots of love and hugs!
I don’t have any advice, but I’ll be watching to see what kind of responses you get, and hopefully they will all be kind! I am in a similar situation with my husband. When he’s in a good mood, he’s great with the kids, loving, etc. When something doesn’t go his way, his temper comes out immediately. If I tell him (nicely) to calm down, he’ll tell me to “shut up”, “f* you”, etc. Swearing loud enough for our young kids to hear, acting like no one should be able to hear him. Things like that. It’s like it’s not grounds for divorce, but I HATE not being treated nicely (even though admittedly I’ve started to follow suit & do the same to him! Not pleased with myself either!). It’s frustrating to deal with! I do believe in the power of prayer though, and when I get in the habit of praying for the situation, and for how we both deal with it, things do get better. I don’t know…
I don’t know if you are naive, it is just that nothing is black and white. I don’t think there is such thing as “good guys” and “bad guys”. We all have good and bad in us. What is comes down to, is what you can live with and what you want for your kids.
I know I have struggled with the same type questions. I answered one of your questions last night, and I mentioned my father who speaks to my mom the same way as your hubby does to you. I came to the realization this year that my father was in fact, abusive to us kids, and is verbally abusive to my mom. I always regarded him as “just having a temper”. It very much affected me as a kid, in that I have practically no relationship with him: I call him on his birthday, I say hello to him when we at family functions, and I might say hello, how’s it going when he answers the phone, and then he hands the phone over to Mom. Sorry, but he reaped what he sowed…he spent my early years being jealous of the attention I got from my mom, I spent most of my childhood years camped out in my bedroom because the tension upstairs, the yelling, was horrid, and we all can recall the times he kicked one of us down the stairs or threw us across the room. That is the bad, bad side. My dad is not ALL bad. He does love his kids. He does nice things for the neighbors. He worked hard to provide for us. I can recall him comforting me when my boyfriend cheated on me. SOMETIMES we will have a small bonding moment. So…I go back and forth. He is not all bad and he is not all good. If my parents divorce (as she is considering, based on his treatment of her), I will have mixed emotions. I think she deserves to be happy, and we have but one life. I cringe when I hear him put her down. I don’t think I personally could tolerate it. BUT… he IS my dad. I do love him, and I would hate to see him hurt, as I am sure he would be…lost and hurt if they divorced.
The advice I would give you is: Keep talking to your counselor. He/she can help you sort this out in your mind and you can determine what you are willing to put up with, coping strategies, etc. Have your backup plan in place as in having copies of all important documents, having an account in your name, etc. **Can you have your employer direct deposit a small amount of each check into a separate account? Even if it is just 5% of each check, it might be a small enough amount that hubby does not notice but you have cash… in case. Also consider going to a cash-only system where you pay for groceries, etc in cash, this is good for eliminating over spending and you could easily take $20 here and there…in case.
What I guess I am getting at is, you don’t need to make a decision today, but protect yourself and start getting your backup plan going so that if you do decide to leave, you are prepared.
