Could I be overlooking something about my husband's behavior?

Only you can live your life. If he is not abusing your kids and you can tolerate his BAD behavior in the face of his GOOD qualities - it’s your call. No one on this site - well intentioned or not - can make this decision for you. It’s very very easy to say “I would do this” but THEY ARE NOT YOU.

It’s simple. You put up with what you put up with. You are not ready to leave your husband and that is fine as long as you know that you are WILLINGLY putting yourself in position for his verbal abuse. You cannot continue to complain (and I’m saying this in kindness) when you are letting it happen.

I wish you the best of luck it seems like a very very hard place to be in.

Is there a chance of any of the following, Scarlett? I am offering these not as excuses for his actions toward you – there are no excuses – but as potential areas for you to think about and possibly approach him about. (And if you are physically afraid to approach him with any of these – then you have bigger problems between you than you fully realize.)

Could he be depressed? That can manifest sometimes in abusive action toward the person to whom one is closest. Despite all his wonderful qualities, could he be depressed?

Could he be stressed? What is the work situation? Is it possible he is under stresses at work he isn’t even telling you about? Do you generally over the years tend to talk together about his bosses, workmates, work projects, etc., and if you do tend to be pretty informed about his working life – has he seemed to clam up, or just offer less information, lately about work? He may be aware of upcoming job cuts in his workplace, or have knowledge that his employer is in trouble in this economy, etc., and he feels he can’t tell you or it will worry you – but his own worry comes out in these ways you list.

Could he be burning out on being the good guy, great dad and provider? The other name for that is the old-fashioned “mid-life crisis.” Not an excuse, again, but a potential explanation for behaving so stupidly and abusively. Does he feel trapped by being the provider and the great dad and husband? I’ve seen terrific guys (two friends’ husbands) go off the rails pretty suddenly and unexpectedly and the reason, after much vague excuse-making, ended up being “I don’t know who I am, I didn’t expect to feel this tied down to a house and kids, I didn’t expect to be working in this job, I didn’t do that thing I wanted to do when I was 20 (finish college, travel the world, put off kids until I was 40, whatever).” These were truly nice guys who were good providers, had a lot in common with their wives, loved their kids, etc. but who beneath it all had some deep dissatisfaction with their perfect lives. If you talk to your husband and find that’s what’s going on, he may need some therapy to work through it positively and figure out how to feel more fulfilled (go back to school part-time, get a hobby he truly loves, find time for doing guy stuff he can’t do now, whatever it may be).

Could he become a physical abuser? One where the verbal abuse of you now could escalate? You don’t mention whether, after his screaming fits and screeching off in the car, he ever comes home to apologize to you, or is in tears at what he’s done, or says, “I don’t want to be this way.” If there is no sense of remorse from him, or no sense that he believes his actions were wrong, that is a big red flag. Does he have any abuse in his past–did his own dad yell at his own mom like this? If so, that modeled for your husband that such “communication” is acceptable.

You also don’t say how you react yourself when he “goes off” like a bomb on you. Cry? Yell back? Beg him to quiet down for the kids’ sake? Make a stand and say “You are not allowed to talk to me like that or call me names”? Say nothing when it’s happening and then say nothing when he gets home, so neither of you ever discusses what he did when you both are calm and rational? Are any of your reactions changing his actions? I am guessing not, since he continues to do these things. And they are totally unacceptable. They are verbal abuse and getting very close to physical abuse.

Ask yourself all those things.

Like I said earlier – if you are afraid to ask him to sit down and talk about this behavior, when you both are calm, then you do have a bigger problem than a great husband who just occasionally gets a bit angry. You have a husband you know could potentially become violent – he may never yet have hit you,but doesn’t it cross your mind when he “punches things” that you or one of the kids could end up at the receiving end of that punch next time, or the time after that?

You are not naive to think he’s great in many ways, but you would be naive to let him continue his behavior. Today, find an experienced couples and/or family therapist or counselor and get yourself there. You both need to go. He needs to attend and if the suggestion makes him blow up – you need to reconsider whether this is the person you want modeling behavior for your children for years to come. Tell him all his great points and how much you admire and love him and all the reasons why. Then tell him he is better than this behavior – and it has to change or it will trump all the good things. Tell him it’s time for him to work out whatever it is that is making him do this and you are willing to work with him and a counselor or psychiatrist to do that – but if he won’t work it out and end the behavior, well, you know what will happen next.

Please update us. Please don’t be afraid to get professional help, ASAP. He may thank you for it in years to come.

this is a great example of how you’ll get completely diferent answers depending on how you word a question or what you leave out.
I think your husband isn’t bad BUT from previous posts where you tell him your are sad about certain events and how he treats you and want to go to couseling and he refuses so I believe you either don’t go, or go alone, prooves a lot more to me. To me it would mean hes fine with leaving you sad and not changing himself. that means more than any bad actions he may have. If he’s willing to work on the marriage to change with you then I would say its defiitely worth sticking it out, if he’s unwilling to talk to a therapist to help you both become better lovers than I don’t see how you’ll navigate through this issue or future ones, and you deserve better!
ALSO: and impt question to ask youself is how you want your chidlren to view love and marriage, becaue they will learn and replicate your example most likely

I would never tell a woman to divorce her husband because I am always outside looking in and would never give that type of advice without ALL the information. All I can say is that you have to do something different in order to get a different result. If you have to make it known to others how he treats you in front of him do that, if you have to step outside of your comfort zone and leave & tell him you will not come back until you have done 3 months of counceling do that, if you have to call the entire family over yours and his and put everything on the table and out in the open do that. What ever it is that works for you and yours just do something different.

Sending you hope & courage to make a change…the change has to start with you because the enviroment is normal to him.

As a human, well not as bad, but he doesn’t sound like anyone you want to be married to.

I can tell you I felt the way you did. When he was up he was great, when he had stress he went after those he takes for granted his family. I remember him cussing out two old ladies at bingo. Here I was the good wife telling them I am so sorry he had a stressful day. I swear any politician would love to have me as their spin doctor. I don’t even think his own family understood how much damage control I did. I don’t even think I realized how much damage control I did.

I knew how to keep him from losing his temper, it was freaking scary, ya know. It was like he himself didn’t have control of the rage. So I learned to pick up on that tone when he called in the afternoon so we would be working on some project out of the house when he got home. We all learned how to keep dad happy for the most part.

That is no life for you and your children! I promise you they will stand up to him and he will attack them. I believe you when you say you are strong and your protective instincts will kick in and you will be done. Do it now, do it later I promise you you will not be married to him in ten years. I am not a betting person, I would put money on that!

Ask my kids, they had no idea until they were 10 and 12. By the time my daughter was 14 she was in his face telling him he would not speak to her mother that way! He was brutal in his verbal attacks. He called her every name in the book. He tried to destroy her because demeaning people is the only way they know to keep people under their control.

Oh like I said before it escalates as they get older. Keep track of it, you will see.

Scarlett, I can’t imagine the struggle going on in your mind right now. But I do want to say that him saying “then stop being a bitch and I won’t have to call you one” is bad. Very, very bad.
He might not be a bad person but he is on track to being a bad person because of the way that he treats you.
Keep a clear mind. I am NOT telling you that you need to leave or stay, I can’t make that decision for you, but I am saying this- it is unacceptable for someone to call you a bitch, or any other name, or curse at you and in the same breath BLAME you for his behavior. That is abuse, through and through. There are people that will tell you that those words are not a big deal, but they are desensitized. Don’t let yourself become desensitized!!!

I think that your husband doesn’t want to go to a counselor because he knows that HE will have to shoulder some blame. As long as he can blame his behavior on you, he feels fine.

You deserve better treatment. I hope your husband wakes up and becomes that good person that you sometimes see in him. Please don’t let him verbally cut you down anymore.

I am so proud of you going to see a counselor! That takes a lot of guts. Ask your counselor what are your goals. Are your repeating your parents’ marriage? Are you staying with him, because you are afraid of leaving and the unknown? I am concern that his anger is escalating and he might physically hurt you. Has he always been like this? As you get stronger he could easily feel theatened.

Be safe and if you want email me.

Take care
Jean

I think this:
I think that all marriages go through better times and worse times. Just a few years ago my husband and I did a lot more “fighting” than we EVER did in our marriage. No particular reason for it. We were just both under stress and had been letting the husband/wife/marriage part of our marriage get a little dusty. You know, with all of life’s responsibilities with kids and a mortgage, etc etc. We started making more of an effort to reconnect to US.
I think it was partly that point where the kids are starting to get a little older and THEY start testing the parents on a different level. It’s no longer “do we discipline the same”, --spanking or no spanking–, it is what do we do to keep grades in line, how much freedom do we give them, how to we check their attitude, etc. Just generally more “complicated” issues with the kids.

I think it was a phase. I mean, as I said, I think all marriage go through cycles. There are times when you are so connected that you don’t even have to talk. Then there are times when you are so disconnected that talking is difficult. Then there are plateaus. And troughs.

So the question, it would seem to me, would be whether or not you think this could be part of something like that, or is this the permanent status of your relationship? Could this just be a trough that you have to get through? Or has it been a steady downhill decline from the beginning?

NO marriage is ALWAYS champagne and roses. I did not come from a divorced family. My parents did fight sometimes, usually at night when we kids were ‘asleep’… and my mom could be quite the passive-aggressive personality. (Me too, I think I learned it from her). But, they will have been married now for 50 years in another 15 months. And strangely enough, the times that I do remember them having their “fighting phase” was when I was about the age that my children are now. About 12-15 years into their marriage, probably.
I think the stresses and strains of raising kids has an effect on a marriage that many people like to pretend doesn’t happen. Today’s buzzwords are all about how your marriage (good or bad) affects the kids. How divorce (or staying together ‘for the sake of the kids’) affects the kids. It’s ALL about the kids. Not many people address the flip side, which is how kids affect the marriage. And they do.
When was the last time you and hubby had some REAL time away from your kids? You know… a few DAYS away somewhere?

I think that you would be niave in thinking you were ‘making it work’ with someone who clearly by his actions and words (refusing to go to counciling and not taking responsibility for his actions and words such as telling you if you weren’t acting like a bitch he wouldn’t call you one) isn’t committed to making it work. You’re just living day to day and surviving.

That said…so am I! I have 3 and one on the way and some rare days, my husband is a complete gem. Most of the time though, he’s mean, rude, and blows up at me and the kids for NO GOOD REASON! He’s told me to shut the f up, though never to actually f off, and he called me bitch ONCE in the 10 years we’ve been married. And still I stay.

All this to say, I don’t think you are niave in that you just don’t see what’s going on. You do. Sweeping things under the rug and not standing up for yourself is niave. It’s niave to think things are ‘working’ just because you haven’t left yet. Staying and dealing with things when you haven’t reached your breaking point isn’t niativity, it’s just life.

And, I truely believe that some men can be great, wonderful fathers (like you say yours is) and really SHITTY husbands! So, to truely answer your question of whether you are niave to think he’s not that bad of a guy…no. He can be a great ‘guy’ and father, but a crappy husband.

It’s all about what you can handle. Reily J will attest to that.

I think it takes a lot of courage to post your situation and ask for advice. Everyone needs help in some shape or form and you should never be judged for it. As others have said, no one can truly know what your relationship is like and whether you should stay or go, only you can make that call. You are not naive to think he is a good person as you see that side of him. I saw my mother go through similar relationships with both my father and step-father and vowed I would break the cycle (which I did). If the kids haven’t witnessed it yet it’s probably just a matter of time before they do. Definitely continue counseling no matter what so you have someone there to guide you through this. My prayers are with you.

He sounds like he has anger and control issues. He’s abusive. PERIOD. Most abusers have lovey times and are apologetic. I wouldn’t spend my time with anyone who regularly went into rages and called me names. It’s disrespectful and immature. Get counseling together, if he won’t go to counseling, leave him. He may not do it in front of the kids or to the kids, but it’s likely to progress if you let him keep getting away with this behavior.


After reading your update. I want to point out that it shouldn’t matter what word he uses to call you names. Name calling is not ok. He could call you a bitch, a cunt, a baby, it doesn’t matter, and it doesn’t matter what other people think of whatever names he’s using. Name calling is immature and meant to demean you, it’s not a constructive way to argue.

The sole fact that he won’t go to counseling is a clear indication that 1) he thinks his behavior is appropriate and 2) he doesn’t want to make things work with you. I know it’s not what you want to hear, but this man doesn’t love you. If he can treat you this way, yell at you, call you names, and won’t talk to someone about it (in fact calls THEM names - yeah…mature way to get out of doing something grown up like admitting you’re wrong a need help…), and you let him get away with it, then he’ll continue to treat you with hate and walk all over your feelings. These are not actions of a man who loves his wife and wants his marriage to last. They are actions of a man who is doing what he can to push his wife away so that she leaves and he isn’t the bad guy.

And don’t kid yourself. Your kids probably see more than you realize and it will affect their views of you and him if is hasn’t already.

Would you say this is getting worse? More frequently?
Is he about 45?

Sounds like he has always had a temper and he is starting to have more trouble controlling it. So many possibilities..

Could be low testosterone..
Could be “MEN-opause”
Could be total stress at work or for financial reasons. Make sure he tells you truth about this part.

Maybe he feels like since you are in Counseling you are going to think less than him.
Could be he is in a relationship with someone else.

ALL of the above.. Needs to be openly discussed.. Do it with concern. Alone and not at home. Somewhere in public so that he has to keep his temper under control.

Here are things to consider speaking about. Remember YOU have to decide what it is you WANT to know and are willing to live with or without..

Start off by stating the good things you do like about him.

Remind him your goal has always been to be married to him, raise your children together and to stay in a happy marriage.

Remind him you will no longer stand for his verbal abuse. If he cannot speak civil with you, you are not going to listen to him. You do not deserve this and he had no right to treat or speak like to you.. EVER.

Let him know his physical anger is scary and not appropriate. He would never allow your children to act that way, so he needs to find a different outlet for this pent up anger.

Also he needs to be encouraged to have a full physical. He needs to make a list of changes he has been experiencing. Have him write them down and you help guide him to remember. You may even need to go with him to the appt.

tell him you need to know what is going on at work. That if there is something there that he is concerned about he should share it with you. You are on his team and at least want him to feel like he can share this.

And lastly, If you can live with the consequences… Let him know if he is in some other relationship with someone else, YOU WANT to know. You do not want to waste his or your time if he is no longer committed to your marriage and so unhappy with you.

As Dear Abby Once said.
“Are you better with him or without him?”

It is excellent that you are in counseling. We all need to purge, share and hear someone speak with us honestly.

I am sending you strength.

Okay, I’ve never been through this, but I’m going to weigh in… Ignore if you don’t agree.

I think you’re doing the right thing. Right now.

Keep treating yourself with respect by walking away and not feeding into his anger. Keep telling him you don’t deserve to be spoken to that way and you won’t sit there and let him.

For some reason, he’s chosen you to take his anger out on. He can’t do it at work because he’d be fired. He won’t do it to his kids (not yet, at least). So you (and sometimes his mother) are his only outlets.

You might try posing questions as you’re walking away and reminding him that you deserve respect. Things like: “Why are you so angry?”

Keep going to counseling. I’ve heard many many stories of marriages that were turned around because one person chose to act - and typically not the spouse that really needed the help.

There’s a reason he’s acting out. There’s a reason he’s so angry. If you love him and choose to stay (which, by the way, don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand - you can love him and choose to leave, as well) then you MUST believe that you are worth of love and respect and accept nothing less from him.

That means ignoring anything that is not loving and respectful. You may be surprised at what you can accomplish by yourself in your marriage.

Ultimately, this decision is yours. You have to choose whether his behavior is enough for you to leave. It’s not a one-time decision, either - you need to continuously evaluate what it is you want and need and whether this relationship will provide it.

Scarlett I think you REALLY ARE IN LOVE WITH YOUR HUSBAND. Your love for him out weighs any of this other BS. That is why I told you yesterday that if you decide not to take any action right now, it is ok.
You have to find a way to communicate with this man. That is the real underlying issue here. You two do not have good whole hearted clear communication. You have to find a way to really talk to each other.
I just realized that ALL of your questions yesterday were really for someone to help you FIX this and NOT FOR YOU TO EVER LEAVE HIM.
It’s ok for you to feel this way. But all of us here only see the question and start giving our answers. I don’t go back to your profile to look at other questions.
Scarlett in the long haul this is your life. You do with it as you please. We are only here to support and believe me, I am not here to JUDGE!!
So now the prayers I will say for you are for you and your husband to find a way to communicate w/o anger. Find a common ground to speak to each other on that is not demeaning to either person. For your husband to see how much you love him and to realize how hurtful his words are and to stop using them towards you.
Good luck and GOD BLESS!
Denise

You alone know the total man - we only see what you tell us which is certainly not the whole picture.
You are definitely unhappy about SOMETHING - 6 seasons of counseling is proof enough of that.
He’s not going to change, does not want to change, sees no reason to change, does not understand your unhappiness or desire for him to change.
So what is counseling doing for you?
Either you are going to have to accept him as he is (good, bad and all his warts which means learning not to care about what he calls you) or stay with him and continue to be unhappy or leave to an uncertain but scary future and try for happiness without frequent periodic belittling/disrespect.
You think the kids don’t know.
Yeah, well, that is a bit naive.
Little pitchers have big ears - they ALWAYS hear more than you think they do and someday you are going to be in for a real shock the first time one of your kids calls you or anyone else an eff-ing b*tch just like dear old Dad.
Is this worth all his good qualities?
Only you can decide.

Scarlett,

It sounds as if you are really struggling about whether to leave or not. I don’t think that you’re ready. Yes you absolutely deserve better. Yes, you could make it on your own, even though I know that you don’t have family or support close by. It’s really amazing the things that we can do when we have to.

BUT, I’m going to suggest that you remain in counseling and work through this process. Keep walking away and refusing to talk to him when he’s abusive, and treat yourself with respect. You know that you deserve it all the time, even if he doesn’t treat you that way all the time.

Divorce impacts kids in ways that we can not know, and so does staying in a toxic relationship. Maybe he doesn’t do any of the things you describe in front of your kids, but I doubt that they are oblivious to the problems. My parents never fought in front of us, but I knew what was going on because I woke up to it at night. But then in the morning, everything was fine again because they didn’t want to show their problems in front of us, so that was a very confusing picture for an 8 year old.

But for now, you seem conflicted. Stay and do YOUR work with the therapist until you are certain of what you want to do. You do owe it to yourself and your kids to be absolutely sure that you did everything you could before leaving. You can never predict how your kids will turn out whether you stay or go… you just have to be sure in your heart and mind that you did what you thought was best after weighing everything in. Your husband owes them that too, but since he doesn’t think there’s a problem, you won’t get anywhere with that.

Best of luck to you Scarlett. I’ve been following your posts and I truly worry about you. I wish you the best of luck in finding your way in this and doing what’s best for yourself and your kids.

Scarlett, I don’t think you’re naive. I think you’re trying to do the best with what you have. I will tell you, though, that from the outside looking in, it appears that your husband has a problem and if he doesn’t get help, he might become violent towards you. He’s certainly on the path. I’m sure you know that he has an anger management issue and he’s taking out his frustrations on you. If he’s yelling at you, not listening to what you have to say, and calling you names, he doesn’t respect you - plain and simple. The fact that he doesn’t yell at you while the kids are around doesn’t mean they don’t sense the disrespect. It’s almost like you’re living a lie in front of your kids (that everything is awesome) and you have to deal with the reality when they’re asleep.

The fact that he won’t go to counseling is very telling to me. And I do agree that you can’t force him. But something needs to change. His good qualities don’t go out the window, but I do think that the way he’s treating you DOES overshadow the goodness. If you can handle the way he treats you, then stay. If it’s making you question your selfworth, or if you’re changing your behavior as a result of his anger, then you may need to look at a trial separation or something like that. Perhaps he needs a wake up call to realize how badly he’s jeopardizing his relationship.

And, to answer your question about what a loving marriage looks like: it probably looks a lot like yours. But it does not include yelling, name calling, and not listening. Those are truly big deals that would probably send me out the door if my husband wasn’t willing to work on his behavior. If he was willing to work on it and really worked hard, I’d stay.

As someone who has survived horribly abusive relationships (sexually, physically, and verbally)…
You will get treated the way you allow yourself to be treated. It seems harsh, I am sorry. But, this is something that I have learned. Example: I am tired of being called stupid bitch. I don’t like to be told to fuck off. I LEAVE so that it doesn’t happen anymore. Two things will happen. You will leave and he will A) Say good riddance or B) Start counseling because he values your family and children just as much as you do.
Listen, I understand what you are saying!! He’s great with the kids. He’s great with money. He’s your defender. WELL, why doesn’t he defend you from him? If he’s not okay with someone else calling you horrible names than why is it okay for him to?
You slept on your decision. that’s great. But don’t let a good night’s sleep have you close your eyes to the fact that your husband is verbally abusing you.
Laura

Scarlett my heart hurts for you. I can somewhat relate to you in that when my husband is his best self - which is most of the time - he is a good, decent, hard working, fun, loving, thoughtful, generous, wonderful person, good partner, and great father. Even at his worst he is a good dad.

My husband, however, has a mood disorder. It’s a kind of cyclical depression that’s similar to bi-polar II - he’s normal for a long time, briefly mildly “high” and then depressed for anywhere from a couple of weeks to 6 or 8 weeks at a time. And during those times, he’s awful to me. During these times, he’s been unfaithful, nasty, rude, withdrawn, irritable, tired, spends money, says terrible things, etc. He is a different person. Last week he shoved me and was arrested.

What saves us, and gives us hope, is that he knows he has a problem and works very, very hard to fix it. He takes his medication. He sees a cognitive-behavioral therapist. We see a psychopharmacologist who is also our marriage counselor. We see a family therapist (thank God I have good health insurance). He seeks spiritual guidance, and talks openly with his father and grandmother and listens to them. He didn’t choose this illness, and does everything in his power to fight it. And when it knocks him down, he gets up. Again, and again, and again.

Your husband clearly has some underlying issues that need to be addressed. I think you mentioned that he drinks to much - he could be a garden-variety alcoholic, or he could have something like a mood disorder that manifests itself as a drinking problem. But until HE recognizes that there is a problem - and that it lies with him and he’s the only one who can fix it - there can’t be a solution.

You mentioned in past posts that his family is nearby. Does your MIL know about this? Could you talk to her without making the situation worse? Is there someone else who can get through to him?

I think that you are at a point where you need to proceed with separating, either by getting him to leave or by leaving. Hopefully that will be the wake up call that he needs to get help with whatever his issues are. There is no hope if things continue the way that they are. If he hits rock bottom when you separate, and you are strong in insisting on counseling and whatever else he needs to fix himself, then there probably is reason to hope and something to salvage. It would be a shame to break up a family over something that can be treated and managed.

Best of luck to you - I really do hope that he sees the light and changes. But in the meantime, be smart, be strong, and be safe. You deserve better than what he is doing to you.

Sounds like he’s got some major issues. And it’s good that you are in counseling even if he wont go. Its easy for someone to say leave. But when there are kids involved it’s easyer said than done. You need a support system. One of my friends had an abusive husband and the only way she was able to aford to leave him was that I kept the three oldest two nights a week for her over night and took them to school for an entire school year. It was hard but that was the only way she could do it. This year she’s got more help. You have to decide for yourself and your kids what is best. But what ever you do do not let him lay a hand on you or your children. That shoudl be where you defenently draw the line!!!

Good luck and God Bless!!!