Greek Orthodox baptism - a few questions

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1

Hi everyone,

We've been invited to the baptism of a cousin's baby. The father is Jewish (as are we) and the mother is Greek Orthodox. They are having ceremonies in both religions and will raise the child with holidays and observances in both faiths. This is a long-awaited baby after many horrible miscarriages and stillbirths, so every occasion and milestone is being celebrated with a lot of excitement.

The mother is a worrier so I'd rather get some perspective from others so I don't have to call her about this. We have a lot of intermarriages in our various families so we are comfortable with different religious ceremonies, and we know what rituals can be participated in and which can just be observed by those of another faith. We also imagine that a portion of the ceremony will be in Greek, and some in English.

The baptism is on a Sunday afternoon and will be followed by a lunch at a restaurant. I've been told by a Greek Orthodox friend that it is not permissible for women to wear pants in many churches - is that your experience? Does it vary by individual church? I'm not talking jeans or anything casual - what is your opinion of a really nice pant suit for a woman who really cannot wear heels or boots of any kind and must wear flats? This will be held in New England in early February, so we're talking cold temperatures, if that matters.

What is common in terms of gifts? I've heard "cash cash cash" - does that mean a check, or something like a savings bond, or either one? I've heard that the godparents will give something religious such as a cross and a Bible. What do you think about a child's book of Bible stories - would that please both sides of the family since the Hebrew scriptures are equivalent to the Christian Old Testament, at least in many denominations? Is it common to give things like clothes or toys? The family seems to be getting those for every occasion, and they've just gone through the new baby gifts, the Chanukah and Christmas gifts, the Jewish baby naming ceremony, and now this baptism. The family is quite comfortable financially so it's not a question of getting them the essentials - they bought a ton of stuff themselves and the baby has every possible gadget and convenience. Should several members of an extended family give individual gifts, or join together on a combined gift? Is it common to give a donation to the church in addition to or instead of a gift for the child?

What else should I know about this, or what questions should I really direct to the mother herself?

Many thanks for your experiences!

2

You are way over thinking this. I agree no pants. A nice dress or skirt just like church in the old days. A gift is anything you want. No different than any other baptism.

3

Err on the side of caution and skip the pants. I think you can wear a long skirt or dress with flats.

As for the gift, I think either a check or a savings bond would be an appropriate gift for a baptism.

4

Youtube has a number of videos of infant baptism in the Greek Orthodox Church. Here’s one:

5

I have no answer for you, but I have heard many times that the Greek Orthodox Churches can be very strict with things. I thought I heard that you had to be Greek Orthodox to attend a wedding? I really don’t know.

Could you call the parish office? I used to work at a Catholic Church, and we would get all kinds of questions from family and friends who were invited to weddings and baptisms. Heck we got calls from the bride and groom and calls from the parents of the child to be baptized.

No question is too stupid. Believe me. We’ve heard some doozies!

6

Why don’t you call the church and ask them about wearing a dressy pantsuit, in lieu of a dress because of the reasons you discuss in your SWH. The rules may be different for a baptism (which may include people of many faiths) vs a worship service. For a gift?? Maybe a frame or a photo album for pictures from the ceremony.

7

I agree, you should ask the church that the baptism will take place at. In Catholic religion, every priest has their own rules. He rules that church.

In our (Roman Catholic) church, we attend class and he lets s know what is appropriate in mass or during sacraments and what is not. However, he does not correct you and says he won’t. So for example, when the choir sings a beautiful song in closing, we often clap on the way out the door. He just told us in class…don’t clap. It is part of the ceremony. He is rather old school and my guess is that the priest before him didn’t mind.

Another example, when I photograph a wedding, I have to ask the priest of that church what his rules are, out of respect. Every Catholic wedding I have shot does not allow flash. One church allows me to do what I want. So when my husband was in attendance, I walked behind the altar and came out the other side. He had a small heart attack and thought…she didn’t just do that. So I got the “by the way” statement. I just laughed and said I was allowed to.

If you are able to find the churches website, there should be an email for you to direct all your questions to.

As for the donation, in RC, the parents receive an envelope for their baptismal donation.

As for a gift, a card and a check, cash, or savings bond should all be appropriate.

As for the Sunday baptism, it is done on a Sunday because that is the first day of the week. Here is a link to a Greek Orthodox site that explains their baptism. It appears very similar to RC, but I have never seen communion given if it is a separate ceremony for baptism. http://www.kimisis.org/Orthodoxy/Baptism.html

You am also ask about communion. In RC, you can walk up for communion, but skip it and just get a blessing. You do this by placing the pointer finger ver you lips in a “Shhhh” fashion or crossing your arms criss cross over your chest.

Enjoy. I like the opportunity to see ceremonies in other faiths.

8

Each church is different. Call the church and ask them directly. Most prefer dresses to pants. but really? Unless it’s an ULTRA-Orthodox church? They won’t mind. Call them. Our church is Russian Orthodox. We PREFER women in dresses and skirts. shoes? wear what is comfortable. We are not some group of people that will look at your tags to make sure it’s “the right brand” - I think you are wwwwwwaaaayyy over thinking this.

Gifts? it is typically the Godparents responsibility to provide the Bible to the child, as they are the ones expected to help in the religious aspect of the raising of the child. If you are NOT the Godparent, find out if they are getting the Icon for the child. This is a VERY touching gift. The Icon will be from the Month the baby is born. You can contact the church to purchase and have it blessed.

Another gift? The Baptismal candles…contact the parents or the church and ask if they have done that, if not - you would love to buy those. The candles are then lit every year on the anniversary of the child’s baptism.

You also might note that several will bring bombonieres - Jordan Almonds in a small netted bag with a blue or pink ribbon tied. The Jordan Almonds go back to John the Baptist who baptized people in the Jordan River.

Savings bonds, etc. are typical. But really? People give all sorts of things at Baptisms.

What to expect:

The service will be long.

The Godparents will be asked to give “The Creed” - this is where the Godparents are asked to confess faith in Christ on behalf of the infant. They then recite the Nicene Creed.

you will hear a LOT of “Lord have Mercy” since you are Jewish, you are NOT expected to state this. It will be done after each Petition. there will be people crossing themselves during the service as well, since you are Jewish - you are NOT expected to follow suit.

When you hear “Peace be onto you” - you can respond with “and to your spirit”

Also be prepared…some Greek Orthodox churches DO NOT have pews. there are chairs for elderly or disabled, but mostly? people stand.

hope this helps.

9

what’s wrong with flats with a skirt? i do it all the time.
love heels, but my knees won’t let me enjoy 'em.
a check or a savings bond will be fine. don’t stress about which one. that’s easy.
no, i don’t think a bible book is the way to go. let those who are actually participating in the child’s religious upbringing pick the reading material. just a check will be fine.
khairete
suz

10

For the attire-

If a skirt is required, I imagine the person in question could go dressed as she likes and bring a change of clothes. Nip into the restroom and put on a skirt before entering the church. A skirt and flats should be fine.

I remember backpacking in the heat of summer in Italy and Greece. I would just have shorts and a tank top on and then thow on a long skirt and a shawl before entering the church. Did the same when entering mosques in Egypt.

A favorite baptism gift of mine is to give a fisher price/ little people noah’s ark set or nativity/ manger set. It’s kid friendly and religious enough.

The mom is probably best postured to answer these types of questions.

Best,
fanged bunny

11

I was married in the Greek Church and our children were also Baptized in the Greek church . Before our wedding , my husband told me women can’t wear pants . I told my family so they would follow custom . Then his cousin and an aunt showed up in dressy pantsuits . I just wore pants to church there last week . Most wear dresses,skirts for something formal like a baptism . I think its ok for her to wear a dressy pantsuit though . Try to have her wear a long formal coat .
In regards to gifts , just give a check . Its like a wedding reception . Money is appropriate . The parents put the money away for college for the child. Have fun :slight_smile:

12

Let me clarify the skirt/pants question. The person i’m asking about literally has no long skirts, she’s elderly, and only has sort of “clunky” flat shoes. She has trouble on steps and can’t manage in a long skirt even if she had one, and she’s concerned about a mid-calf skirt and the only shoes she can wear. But she’s been told she might “not be allowed in” in pants. Also, please specify if your answers relate to Greek Orthodox tradition or just what you’ve experienced in other religions. The people I’m asking for have experience at Catholic baptisms but have been told that, in the Northeast at least, customs can vary in the Greek Orthodox tradition. Thanks!

Okay - Here’s the update. I tried contacting the church but so far have not heard back. But I did speak directly to the family - of course, with this particularly worrying mother, it was a 1 hour conversation on every subject! Yes, dressy slacks are accepted and frequently seen in many Greek Orthodox churches, maybe less so in the cathedrals. Thank you to those who truly understood that an elderly lady with unattractive shoes (not just cute flats like some assumed - the more sturdy types are only ones she can wear but which don’t show under nice pants was just NOT going to check into the ladies room to change into a skirt and sit in a possibly drafty church! She would have chosen to stay home! This family has attended numerous churches in the area and seen dressy slacks in all of them. I didn’t get too far on the gifts, but it seems that things are pretty “open” because, from the get-go, this child is being raised in 2 traditions so the book of Bible stories would be fine. Thank you again to those who truly read my questions and either answered publicly or private messaged me - it’s interesting to read everyone’s musings and experiences in other religions but it wasn’t quite as helpful as the input from those who really know. I appreciate it!