spanking

Family & Parenting Discipline & Behavior
1

okay, i am going to take the plunge and open this can of worms. and remember i am being completely honest, here. for the first 3 years of my son's life i did not feel spanking was really warranted. yes, a few times during tantrums i would swat his bottom to get his attention, but 90% of the time a timeout worked great. until this week. i must say, i am so proud of my son, and the child he has turned into, it has gone so fast and suddenly i have a potty-trained little BOY on my hands, instead of a baby, or more recently, a toddler. he has grown up a lot in the last six months! so we are all adjusting. and in the last few weeks, he has REALLY started to push my buttons and test me. discipline has become an issue. he is fine with other people, i have to say. and i think that is a mark to his true character. both my sitter (who does "safe area" timeouts), and my mother (who doesn't really discipline much at all from what i can tell) report that he is well behaved, polite, helpful, and all around wonderful, for them. great for THEM lol.

for me, since he has turned 3, well, i have quit taking him in public for the time being. i think once in about six or eight "outings" lately, has he not thrown a tantrum. and you moms, know, it is HORRIBLE to be embarrassed by your child like that. then started the morning fights. lately, literally every word out of my mouth, from "good morning darling, it's a beautiful day, let's start waking up!" to "it's time to brush your teeth", to "okay let's go, it's time to leave." is met with "NO!!" and a tantrum. ladies...i'm not exaggerating. he even refuses to walk to the car. the problem i'm having is that timeouts aren't working. first, because one of the things he's refusing to do in the morning is pee. and i am 100% convinced it is ONLY stubbornness. he doesn't have any infections or underlying problems, he pees just fine the rest of the day...so i was timing him out for disobedience, and twice, he sat in his timeout spot and peed himself. NOT OKAY. he is WAY past that point. second problem, now when he starts disobeying, he requests a timeout. no way dude. so i started this week, instead of timeouts, swatting his bottom. i did GREAT at keeping my cool, i am so proud of myself, i have not laid a hand on him in anger. i simply replaced timeouts with a swat. i warn him if he doesn't do as i ask he will get one, and i count to three. it is usually one to three smart smacks on a bare cheek. "WHEW" there i said it. it seems to be getting through to him...but what i want are your true opinions. except i already know people are going to condemn me and call me a terrible mother...that's predictable. but really...what else are my options? he is using timeout as a reprieve from doing what i ask, and being openly defiant (in peeing on himself deliberately). what are you non-spanking mothers' suggestions, seriously? i honestly feel that i am dealing with a VERY smart and stubborn child, like i said. yes, every mother wants to think her child is a genius, but i'm telling you...he's working me.

he's testing his boundaries like crazy and i really feel if i don't put my foot down and get him obeying me NOW, it will probably screw up his whole life - okay that's melodramatic, BUT i am married to his father, keep in mind...who i don't think was ever made to follow rules in his entire childhood. i truly feel sometimes that my husband thinks he doesn't have to follow rules...he really doesn't respect authority and it has NOT served him (or us!) well. i really feel strongly that i HAVE to teach my son to respect authority. in a way i feel i am being too harsh on him...but most times he is a wonderful kid and we play and laugh and there is a ton of love in our house. but when he gets on his "i'm not going to do ANYthing mommy wants me to do" kicks...i gotta turn into helga the viking warrior, right???? thoughts???

2

Dear Carrie,
Wow, I am surprised to be the first to respond knowing the excitment of this topic to most! But I am on your side sister! Don't get me wrong- there is a very thin line of what is proper and what is not but I think most just need to understand the difference. You explained yourself beautifully and justfully and I think you are simply doing for YOUR child what you know is right! All children are different and some truly are so laid back that they don't even care to push buttons but like us on the other hand, we have very energetic children who after running 15 miles would still be a wild child at times! My nephew is the opposite of my child and sometimes I feel Gma & Gpa would rather be visiting him because they won't get so worn out! LOL But on the other hand my child is healthy and I love seeing him be able to express every bit of himself and his energy though it can get wearing on me.
So, I guess I don't really have any advice for you because honestly I think you know what you are doing and it is not wrong in my eyes! Like you said, you don't do it out of anger!!! I can tell you are just as much a caring strong loving concerned mom as any of us are.

Take care! <3

3

First ask yourself, "is this working"? As with any discipline, if it isn't then you must find something that does. If a few swats (not beatings) change his behavior (and I mean overall--as in he stops refusing to pee in the morning), then I think that is fine. If it isn't effective, then you must think of something else.

Also, in my opinion, whoever coined the phrase "terrible twos" just hadn't had a 3 year old yet! All 3 of my children became much more defiant and prone to tantrums in their 3's! I believe this is a normal part of their development, as they strive to become more independant. That also means that this is the time to teach them what they can and can't get away with. Hang in there! It will ease up!

4

Don't worry about what other people think. You are doing the right thing, and our family is right there with you. Our son (only child too) is just turning three and all of the time-outs and counting to 3 that used to work for a prompt change in his actions are not working anymore. So we have incorporated the "spank" option and we let him know, if you don't listen and do "this" (whatever that is, not stopping playing to wash hands and eat, not tipping his chair back at the dinner table) it will earn him a time-out or a spank if it escalates.

The spank as you describe is just a swat on bare bum, but it definitely gets his attention. As you describe, we don't want kids that don't listen or respect authority. My big concerns are with safety, if they constantly tell us "no" for the small things, then when they are running toward the street and you say "Stop" ...they are going to say "no" then too.

Of course, as other mothers have said there is a difference between a "spank" and a beating. But you clearly know that line. A swat is not going to psychologically harm our kids...as long as we keep ourselves in check and keep our anger out of it.

Hang in there...I believe we are on the right track and our sons will grow up to be better men for it. The bible tells us to provide corrections for our kids and we have to take the job seriously. Look at our society now with all the kids/people who don't respect authority or others.

5

I was a little shocked when I read your post, it was as if I had written it myself! We are going through exactly the same behaviors, and just recently had to go beyond counting to three, and/or timeout. A simple swat on the butt really gets his attention, I think he is actually shocked when it happens, and really turns his behavior around instantly, for now. I look forward to reading the other responses you get, and say if it works, stick with what you are doing until it doesn't. I also agree with the other poster that said the 3's are much worse than the so called terrible two's!

6

Spankings are just fine. It used to be in our society that other people would spank your kids too, ie: principals, neighbors etc...and look at the difference in children now who's parents are too intimidated to discipline their children. Children nowdays are rude and disrespectful unlike just 15-20 years ago. We also have a 3 yo who's going through the same thing, and he gets plenty warning before he gets a swat. He will get one maybe every two weeks. We don't count to three w/ anything we tell him to do because then it makes it seem like we were'nt serious when we said one and two. We also don't ask our son to "please" do something for us. Ugh, that is such a pet peeve of ours when we hear parents saying "please Johnny, I know you know how to do this, please pick up your toys". I will say we are very stern w/ our son, because we want him to be polite, and mind us, which most of the time he does, he just gets in tantrums every once in a while. He has also become quite the little negotiator, which we were'nt expecting for a couple of more years and sometimes we can't help but just laugh! Keep up the good work, and don't worry what other moms will say if they hear the occasional "awfull" word-spank! :)

7

Another quick tip:

Three year olds like to be in control of their world, even though they are not able to understand or handle it. Give him choices that revolve around your instruction. For example, instead of asking him to go to the bathroom in the morning, ask him if he's going to take his jammies off before or after he goes to the bathroom. That makes the bathroom a non-issue, but gives him the choice, which is what he looks for. Red plate or blue plate for dinner? Dinner is not the issue, the color of the plate is in his control. Giving 3 year olds choices are important, they are old enough to choose, and they are struggling for control of themselves at this age.

Good Luck!

8

I am not going to condem you for spanking because I feel that sometimes it is absolutely necessary. I have a 12 yr old son and a 6 year old son who are completely different in personalities and behaviors but I have to say that spanking on those occasions when they just wouldn't listen worked on both of them. I used time out and that did work but when they pushed me past the boundaries it was time for the next step.

My 6 yr old is bright and the one who tested the boundaries the most. His speed of processing sometimes surpasses mine so I knew that he fully understood what he was doing and wanted to see what I would do about his behavior. First we went into his room, sat down on his bed and looked eye to eye (even if I had to carry him there and hold him on it and hold his face close to mine). I told him that because of his behavior and blatant disobedience that he was going to get a spanking and that he had to pull his pants down and bend over to receive it. I only spanked him once but it was memorable! I told him to pull his pants up and sit and think about why he was spanked and a different way he could have acted.

I only had to use this process a few times. It was a very hard thing to do because I would do anything to keep my children from hurting but knew that this is better than them being hurt from other people.

After the spanking and his crying stopped I returned to the room, gave him a hug and told him I loved him no matter what but that bad behavior was not an option in our house and that mom and dad will be respected period. I asked if he understood; once his response was yes and we discussed different behavior choices the issue was done and we went on with the day as normal (after we cleaned up what he had done or fixed the problem he caused if needed). In fact, he became quite happy and we usually had a great day from then on. He just needed to know who was in control and that he was loved.

I wish you the best because this is a very hard time but I loved that age and can't believe how quickly time has flown by.

God Bless,
Seinda

PS: Just to let you know there is hope and this process worked: we get rave reviews from teachers, coaches and other parents about their behavior and how polite and respectful they are. Their spirits are not broken and are both outgoing, happy and successful children.

9

First of all I can't see counting to 3 as you're training them to not obey until 3, why not just count to 1 if you like to count, and for time out, we had many of our kids who wouldn't sit on a chair. Or in a time out place even. So we spanked. I would say whatever you do do it consistently and like you are doing, not in anger. I can't say I disciplined my kids right EVERY time as it's hard to not be angry at times. Make that you goal though and do it. I babysat a grandson for four years and that age 3 was the worst. He did just what your son is doing and everything was a negative. I remember driving in the car one day saying what a lovely sunny day it was and he said no it wasn't he hated sun and then I said well I'm glad God made cloudy days too and he said they were ugly and it was everything that I said. I would sometimes say something like " I'm glad you feel that way but I like" this or that, to which he'd say, " No you dont'". Thankfully, like most 3 year olds he is now past that stage but still tends to be more stubborn. With my own kids years ago, I would not have handled some things as I did with him and regret I didn't know what to do way back when mine were little but when he said he would NEVER go in the potty I didn't press it but he did go and by letting it go until the day I said this is it and he knew I meant it there was no fight over it. Stubborness is not good though so I hope you will be able to break his strong will but not his spirit so he still is free to chose but not to disobey. Spanking is fine if done correctly and consistently. I know what a job it is though to discipline. We feel bad and yet we have to be in charge.

10

Would you really respect someone who was spanking you?! I don't think spaking will earn you respect. I will not imply that you are a horrible mother, because I'm sure you aren't, but I would try some more creative discipline before resorting to spanking. Look into Love and Logic.

11

We read a book called "Loving your kids on purpose" by Danny Silk, and it changed our home in 3 days. Leet me know if you'd like more info!

12

I guess I'm the first to jump into this can of worms with you. I high commend you for taking your child's personality in to consideration. All kids are different (and different at different ages!!). And for not spanking when you are angry. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but there is a BIG difference between spanking and abusing your child. A spanking is not done in anger & is for discipline. For my son, time outs worked most of the time. For the other times, a threat of a spanking (counting to 3) worked. My daughter is different!! Time outs don't work. After getting up from a time out, she will go back to doing it again, with the look of "see I can still do it" on her face. Most of the time threating to spank her works, but only if she knows I will carry thru on the threat if she doesn't stop.

My main thing my mom always tells me is to be consistent and not be lazy. Address the issue at the being, not after you have lost all patience. If you punish after counting to 3, then only count to 3; don't count to 3 over and over again. Also, some advise from other parent: Spankings should be few, but memorable. But remember, after any punishment (time out or spanking), remind your child that you love them very much, but they are not allowed to act they way they acted.

If spanking doesn't seem to get the message thru to your son, then try other things. Taking toys away (this didn't work for my son, after the threat, he asked me to give all his toys away), TV privileges, etc.

I hope this helps. Most kids I know go through a testing time, if we as mom's can stand our ground it will pay off in the end. If we don't stand our ground, then we will be paying for it for a long time!!!

13

I spanked and did time-out both for my boys, depending upon the "crime" so to speak. I did NOT beat my children, nor did I spank them in anger. They are now 18 and 16 and are both honor students, athletes, and very well-mannered and successful young men. They are respectful of all adults, i.e. relatives, teachers, bosses. I can honestly say that I didn't have to spank them past the age of about 4 or 5, and it became very infrequent by that time. There were just times when time-out didn't work or wasn't appropriate for whatever they had done. They don't hit other people, have never been in fights, and don't abuse girlfriends. Like I said, we didn't abuse our children, we explained what the spanking was for and there was plenty more loving than punishing in our house. I think you have to follow what you believe is right, as long as you leave the anger behind.

14

First I want to say that this is a forum for advice, not judgment, so ignore people's comments that are judgmental. I was spanked as a kid, and I have a great relationship with my parents. I respect them, and while I prefer to use other methods of punishment whenever possible, there are times I've resorted to spanking as well. I, too, have an incredibly smart, independent toddler. She started her terrible two's around 18 mos, and, at 27 mos, we're still in the midst of it. I imagine when baby sister is born next week, that will start a whole new level of it! :) She, too, knows how to push my buttons, and how to manipulate me (I'm embarrassed to say how many times I've been duped!). The problem for me now is that sometimes spanking doesn't even work. (Which I know is what all the anti-spankers will say.) She has learned that I can't really make her do anything, and she's strong-willed enough that no amount of praise, removing of privileges, providing choices or physical punishment is enough to get her to change her mind. Most of the time I try to let her experience the natural consequences (if you won't put your jacket on, you don't get to go outside to play). But the problem is when it's not an option - like getting in her car seat when we're leaving in the morning for me to get to work on time. To my chagrin, I have physically held her down and buckled her in, kicking and screaming. This does nothing except teach her that as long as I'm bigger, I can make her do what I want. But she's getting so strong, and I'm 9 months pregnant, so that's not going to last. But what else to do in those times?

The book "Parenting With Love And Logic" by Foster Cline and Jim Fay has some great advice in it, but I find that some of the information is hard to translate into effective results for toddlers. Lots of it does work though, and I think there's a toddler version of the book, too. I'm re-reading it right now. I would recommend it for you. There's also a book called "The Strong-Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson that I've heard is an excellent resource. I've been intending to get it, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm actually planning to get it this week if I can.

All that to say that I don't have any good answers for you, but I think you are doing the best you can. Hang in there and good luck! This, too, shall pass!

15

Your a good mum if he misbehaves spank his bare bum his age or triple his age u want him to cry and learn from his behaviour.

16

thanks so much ladies! i guess i explained myself well enough that no one has (yet) felt the need to write and berate me…or maybe there truly isn’t any other option open to me at this point lol. i always sort of thought deep down that parents that are so vehemently anti-spanking haven’t really had a difficult child. maybe i’m wrong. anyway, thanks again…this, just like any routine/rule change, will take awhile to work out completely, BUT i took him to my aunt’s workplace, and my own, yesterday, to celebrate halloween (to “trick or treat” the cubicles! and to visit lol) and he was an angel. he didn’t fight me “too much” putting his costume on (he was throwing fall-down tantrums over that, before, too), and was an angel in public. so we had an awesome day, and i think he is turning around. of course it could have just been the halloween excitement…we’ll see! but i am more confidant about my choice after reading all your responses. you are some AWESOME mothers! (also got Dr. Dobson’s book “bringing up boys” from my sitter, and it and i are on the exact same wavelength…that helps too…i highly recommend it!) thanks again you awesome mommies!!