Friend wants to live at a nudist camp with her 6 yr old daughter!

AAAHHHHH....so my question will probably be all over the place, but here goes nothing...
My friend has a six year old daughter and she is a single mother. The father has NOTHING to do with them. She was living in Hawaii since her daughter was less than a year old (she is from Hawaii) up until about 6months ago. The whole time that her daughter has been alive she has been a naked child. Seriously. Took her to the store, naked. Go to the library, naked. Play at the beach, naked. Ride in the car, naked. EVERYWHERE! And, her daughter is a "plays with herself" kind of kid. I don't mean to be crude at all, but seeing as she is naked all the time, she has easy access to explore.
She has recently moved back over here, to Idaho, to live with her mom and sister. Her sister is 19ish and always has her friends to the house. Who's naked? the 6 year old.
Her mom doesn't see anything wrong with it! AND she has decided that she wants to live in the "commune" about an hour or so away from her mom, that is a NUDIST camp! WITH HER 6 YEAR OLD!! I can't get over it and it kind of makes me sick!
My friends mother is furious, my other friend and I are quite mad, and my other friend is the one that is really close to her. She had a "fierce" conversation with the wacko friend, and she just doesn't get it. She doesn't want her daughter to grow up feeling ashamed of her body and thinks this commune will be great for her to be comfortable with nakedness. I think it's just a good hiding place for one or two sexual predetors to be hanging out looking for naked little boys and girls.

She is under the delusion that they do background checks, but they also have everyone pool there money for the common good of the commune.
Am I the nut? I think something is seriously wrong here, and my other good friend wants to call CPS but we don't even know if we have a case? Anyone out there know? Anything we can do?
Sorry it's so long and rambling! :)

JUST HAD TO ADD - I have no problem with nudity. I walk around my own house just fine, and my boys are fine with their naked bodies. HOWEVER, if I had some 18-19 year old girls in my house, and my son was busy materbating...that would be a problem. I would not take my son to a camp where a bunch of other naked men and women are walking around. Who is protecting the 6 year old?

Laura,

Honestly, I don't see how it's any of your business. You may not agree with the choices the mother of the 6 year old is making, but it's her life, not yours.

Having lived in Europe for nearly 3 years, Americans have a huge issue with nudity; they can't handle it. In my opinion there is way too much stigma on the nude body that the American mind-set needs to get over.

If this is the wrong choice for this mother and her little girl all you can hope for is that the mother realizes this before anything bad happens, if it does.

Melissa

Yikes!!!
I understand your concern completely. I think it's sad that you are more concerned about this child's potential safety than the babe's mother.
That said, I would look into rules of living in these places, and approach your friend more calmly, if you can. She sounds like people I've known who were less than stable. Maybe condoning the lifestyle will make it less appealing? Read up on it and profess your newfound amazement with the human body and declare clothing the enemy?!
Sorry...but this IS her child, and you need to ask yourself if your friend has been a good mother. Kid is fed, not clothed, but developmentally sound? If you have such big doubts about this woman, consider talking anonymously with the school district, they might know how to funnel the info into the proper channels.
Take care!
Angela

Honestly, I think the nudist camp sounds like a fantastic idea.

Here's why:

1) She's with a peer group.
2) She's near family.
3) She's less likely to be near predators.

1) Idaho is not like Hawaii. Idaho gets cold. Nudist camps in equatorial/tropical regions can run mostly nude most of the time. As proved by the local and historical tribes who have or do, and by the hot & not-so-hot bodies that tilt their head toward mainstream culture by wearing thongs & nipple band-aid bikinis... at least a fraction of an inch. Snow, cold, and ice, however, will bring on warm clothes. Otherwise the commune would have frozen to death their first winter. Your friend and her daughter will undoubtedly follow suit.

I've known very few people who've lived in nudist colonies. The only common thread amongst them is this: They all wear clothes outside of the colony. It may only be a nod of the head towards the dominant culture, but it's a nod of the head, nonetheless. Which you friend has NOT been doing. Mostly though, the people in these communes are quite strong in their beliefs concerning following the law (hence setting up an environment where they will not be breaking the law). Being in a peer group that takes social norms into account (even if they laugh at them) will undoubtedly foist some of itself onto your friend. I would be very much surprised if her daughter was not actually wearing clothes more AFTER she starts living in the colony, because it will no longer be a way for mum to rebel, but common sense. Having a peer group tends to reinforce/reinstate a lot of common sense.

That your friend has this strong conviction, & that she's found a safe and legal way to follow it, actually shows quite a bit of latent common sense.

2) Being near family can be a blessing or a curse, depending on your family. It sounds like your friend either a) wants to be able to be close to mum or b) is using this as a weapon. I'm going to assume the former, because it's easier & more common. She could very well have chosen a nudist colony in Hawaii, or Costa Rica, but no. Instead she essentially moves "home", and finds a colony close to mum. Why? PROBABLY because they have a good relationship, or she wants to work on building one. Which is a good thing.

Any group of people have the potential to be dangerous, cruel, &/or monumentally stupid. Because they DO reinforce each other. Think cults & kool-aid, or Neo-nazi's, or certain governments. They also have the potential to be wonderful reaffirming places, where people form life long friendships based on mutual blah blah blah. By placing herself in a peer-group near mum, your friend is holding out a reservation. An "if this place isn't the place I think it is... I have a safe loving place to run to", kind of reservation. Not an EASY place to run to, certainly. Nowhere where people are going to say "told you so" is an easy place to go. But your friend is placing her family within arm's reach. Smart.

3) Small groups, in addition to being self reaffirming, are also highly self monitoring. There's no getting around nudity = sex in this culture. There just isn't. We live it, and breath it, and absorb it through our pores. Otherwise none of us would care if we wore anything in 105 heat. No one would care if children ran around naked or adults ran around half naked. But we do. If on a particularly hot day I took off my shirt while walking down the street, I would get picked up by the police for "indecent exposure". I could be walking between 1 friend wearing a floss bikini and a male friend in shorts and nothin' else. But I would go to jail. Heck. Even in my younger days when I was, shall we say, perky... I would have been the one to get tossed in the looney bin.

Indecent exposure is soooooooo cultural. No one here gets locked away or sent to the shrink for tests because we show our hair. Or wear pants. Or (gasp) wear clothing that shows our thighs! Yet in some other cultures we WOULD get thrown in jail for it. One of the most dignified women I know, a very devout African Muslim (who only show's her hair in the privacy of her own home), has forgotten once to put a shirt on before leaving the house. She considers our taboo against breasts baffling, because breasts are for feeding babies. "Should one hide one's silverware out in public, as well?" She follows our cultural norm to avoid problems, but she finds hiding breasts in hot weather to make as much sense as we do making sure out hair is covered all the time.

Oops... got side tracked from the self monitoring aspect of small groups. So, in this culture we can't get away from nudity = sex. This group is a product of this culture. Therefor this group is either going to be hyper-vigilant regarding their members actions towards sex & nudity ...or it's not actually a nudist colony... but a sex den. It is NOT likely to be the latter... because sex in this country is even more unpopular then nudity.

Research into sex and sexuality (which, because we equate nudity with sex always includes these types of colonies), has shown that these groups have the lowest percentage of sexual assaults/misconduct of ANY group. They tend to deal with it by quickly tossing the offending individual out.

Meanwhile, there's a level 2 sex offender who lives near my son's old bus stop who jerks off to the kids getting off the bus. He's out of the "zone" required by law, and uses a telescope... so there's nothing any of us can do. We can videotape him and send it to the police, and they can do nothing, because he's in his own house and more then the required number of feet away. In a small group, like this colony your friend is going to, he'd be out on his ear.


Now. Do I PERSONALLY agree with what your friend is doing? Nope. I think it's cuckoo. But a hundred years ago women wearing pants was cuckoo. I support her RIGHT to be a nuts as she wants, as long as she's not hurting anybody. I do think it's a fantastic option for HER, just not one for me.

One more last bit of personal stuff:

I grew up in Japan, where there are public baths. Some are coed, some are not. Do you know what a 90 year old naked woman looks like? Skin hanging from her bones, spine hunched, every joint five times the size it should be, with grey pubic hair nearly hidden by the way her stomach droops? How about when everyone about her are showing great reverence and deferential treatment instead of revulsion or clinical detachment? Or a fifty year old man with a pot belly so big he may as well be wearing a swimsuit... who is tossing every child who comes near him up into the air to splash in the pool amongst gales of laughter? Or the naked young buck being teased by his (equally naked) mother and her friends to go talk to the pretty girl he OBVIOUSLY has a thing for...And him fighting for the self control to be able to do so? He COULDN'T talk with her, until he'd put sex out of his mind. LOL, sure... a 19 year old boy who has to keep his mind pure. Not likely to happen, at least here!

I had to move back home to this country to learn that the only people who have value are the young and beautiful. The only people allowed to show skin, people who are capable of advertising for sex. Where I grew up, it was the wizened shriveled bodies that people paid homage to. It was the personality and honor of a person that mattered, not their body. The fat man who played with all the children was beloved, and not feared. No one tried to keep their children away from him because he was naked. ALL of us were naked. We were swimming. I treasure those memories through, because it showed me a depth of the human condition I have never found anywhere else. People, warts & stretchmarks & cellulite & curved spines and all.

So I can sympathize with your friend, having grown up with that background. Would I do it? Heck no. In the water, divine. In every day life? What a pain in the tukus!!

God help us all. First - YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. Oh, my no ( I am a retired special ed teacher - and this childs' environment and socialization is sick, sick, sick.)

You do NOT need to ''''know'''' that there is a case to call CPS - you call'em and ask for information and explain the issue - and they will help YOU decide what to do from there---.

Poor little girl--- how in Heaven is she supposed to have any safety? - How is she supposed to respond to the first pedophile that walks into her environment with a nice present and a ''''new game''' - since she has NO sense that her body is special and belongs to HER -- she has been robbed of a sense of privacy that every child has as a God-given birth-right- ( sorry- will get off my soap box - but CRIMINENTLY.

Blessings for caring enough to do something- most anything you could do - even go to the police for information - would be a plus -- anything -

We are with you on this-

Blessings,
old Mom
aka- Judy

i was a preschool teacher as i was going through college and was to teach i was required to be accredited, i also was a crisis counselor for women who were abused...this to me is truly disturbing, she is doing her daugher NO favors putting her on display like this in environments where everyone else, including her own mother, is clothed! her job as a mother is to protect her daughter and teach her about the social world we live in. this to me is neglect for her daughter's right to privacy and self. she is too young to know to discern between what is right and wrong and what she is to be comfortable with and what she is not comfortable with as her mother has never offered her the education of these feelings. this borders on exploitative and abusive. she is unknowingly humiliating her daughter daily and she needs to be socialized properly, this is the equivalent of being raised by wolves, only, instead of being in the wild where this type of naturalism would go unnoticed, she is doing it in a social and public setting. perhaps the nudist colony would be best as she would not be so singled out. but personally i am against the whole thing entirely. she is too young and needs to be old enough to make her own decisions before a specific lifestyle is put upon her without her opinion. and no, six is not old enough to have your own opinion as to whether or not you want to live on a nudist colony! i will also add, my brother is a nudist and his mother took him to the nudist colony that she frequented when he was around six or so and he told me that it did make him rather uncomfortable and he was old enough to know that this was not how his friends spent their weekends and he did say it was strange for him, and that is not even her putting him in social situations where everyone else was clothed! and he does have many issues with his mother today, he is 42. i am a 40 year old married mother of a 7 mo old daughter. best of luck talking to her, this story made me so sad and angry for this little girl. i have spent way too much time counseling abused women to know where this is going to end up and it makes me so incredibly sad to hear about her upbringing, or lack thereof.

.

First of all, don’t you have your own life to worry about?

Communes are actually one of the safest place for this child as there are always people around, as opposed to suburbia where kids are outside alone a lot. Secondly, studies galore have shown that like all other sexual predators pederasts prefer children clothed as it adds to the arousal.

thirdly, There is nothing wrong with nudist communes. The people that live there are normal people like you and me. Is there a chance there is a predator among them? Sure, just like on any preschool, playground or office building anywhere in the world.

As for the kid being naked all the time in the regular world, yes this can be a problem, especially in school. But that’s for that mother to decide.

As for who protects the six year old, she will be safer in that commune than she is outside it.

My advice to you, sit down, relax and worry about your own life.