Young Kids Interrupting

Updated on October 20, 2012
D.E. asks from Tampa, FL
27 answers

My middle boy is 4. Very smart, very sweet yet VERY stubborn and greatly enjoys "pushing buttons". We have always worked with him on manners, and one of my pet peeves is a child or anyone for that matter interrupting a conversation, or phone call. Unless it's important.
Well lately that seems a battle for him. All can be quiet until my husband and I start talking and he'll immediately try to interrupt. A lot of times with an "excuse me" first, which is great but we are noticing the intentional act behind it. So I was going with the "You say excuse me and wait until mommy or daddy talk to you" or holding up one finger. But he's being persistent and taking his excuse me as a green light to curb our conversation. He also does this any time one of us is on the phone.
So long story short I'm getting more aggressive with the consequence. We told him yesterday from now on, interrupting is unacceptable. If mom and dad are talking or on the phone, he is NOT to interrupt period unless he or one of his brothers is hurt. If he does, he will lose a favorite toy. My husband thinks he should be able to "earn" it back the same day. I don't agree. To me it tells him I can mess up repeatedly and I can still undo my bad consequence.
Anyways, day two and we've lost two toys. The tears are a'plenty, and the pouty lip can make anyone feel bad. But I really feel strongly about this and him understanding that he's not getting 3,4,5,6, times to learn over and over to follow rules.
Should he lose these toys permanently? A week, month?? It's so hard to gage how much impact things like this have on his understanding of following the rules. But I firmly believe that kids can and will learn, and sometimes its even hard on the parents. Am I expecting too much out of him at four? I don't think so, but sometimes hubby gives me the vibe I am. He's usually good cop BTW :)

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So What Happened?

Thas for all the insight! I understand at 4 he can't "master" it necessarily, but he definitely does it as an attention getter. And he is a kid who can not get ENOUGH attention. And he does get plenty! My husband and I both devote individual time to him to play super heoes, colors, practice numbers and letters, talk walks etc. It almost is as if the second attention is turned away he acts up. Normal I know. But I'd like to curb that as I wont be a parent whose child runs their house!
I will keep working on it, and ease up on keep his toys hostage :)

Featured Answers


answers from Lynchburg on

Oh D.!

This reminds me of a TRUE story with my eldest (he was perhaps 4 at the 23 and in Afghanistan)...

Anyway, he had a few 'youngers'...and we were hosting a family BBQ. I was anxious to show off his good manners, so when he came up and said 'excuse me mommy', I put him off saying 'just a minute, Oma and Opa and I are talking'.

When finished talking I said, "Ryan, what did you have to say?"

He responded that the grill was 'flaming'...and it was...ALL KNOBS were melted...and as I recollect, after putting the grill 'out'...we ordered Pizza!

It is a fine line when teaching little

Best Luck!

4 moms found this helpful


answers from Dallas on

Yeah, you're expecting too much. They have no concept of time - a minute is forever. He does need to recognize that you are having a conversation, but it's normal. He wants attention. Perhaps give him something to do while he waits. You can't expect a 4 year old to have the patience for conversation that adults have. Just keep modeling the behavior.

Also, adults tend to say "In a minute" or something to kids, but then get caught up in adult stuff. Try not to do that. It's just as annoying for kids, I would think, as interrupting is for adults. :)

3 moms found this helpful


answers from Phoenix on

I don't think you're being too hard on him. Better to train him now, than have to re-train an elementary aged kid. I think kids that age are fully capable of understanding & following the rules.

2 moms found this helpful

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answers from San Francisco on

Your intentions are good but your method isn't really very rational.
When you teach your child ANYTHING, whether it's how to use a fork, ride a bike, treat a friend, write a word, behave in a restaurant, it takes TIME. You say you're not giving him 3, 4, 5, 6 times to learn? Why not? Good manners are a skill like any other skill he needs to master.
When he interrupts, you hold up your finger, say please don't interrupt, I'll talk to you in X minutes and then carry on with your conversation. THAT's how he will learn. It's a process, not a crime that needs to be punished. Well behaved children become that way through consistent redirection, reminding and modeling, not by having their favorite toys taken away.

6 moms found this helpful


answers from Dallas on

Yes, I think you are expecting too much at age 4. Have you considered WHY he feels the need to interrupt you? Have you tried giving him some extra attention and then seeing if those interruptions reduce or are stopped? Have you tried telling him that if he doesn't interrupt when you're on the phone today that you will do a favorite activity with just the two of you tonight? Your son sounds like a child crying out for attention, and being a middle child can really suck in the attention area. Your punishment at least gives him negative attention. Positive attention would be much more fun for all involved though and just as effective.

3 moms found this helpful


answers from Philadelphia on

I am not one to punish and I really do not think that what you are doing is an effective punishment for his actions. I would try role playing with him. Ask him to tell your husband about something he is really interested in and then you interrupt him acting like a pesky 4 year old. Exaggerate the behavior. Tap him, raise your hand, keep saying excuse me. My bet is he will laugh and think this is hysterical but will get the behavior is not acceptable. Talk about how saying excuse me does not make it OK to interrupt unless the house is on fire:).

3 moms found this helpful


answers from Boise on

I think it's a little harsh.

I don't enjoy being uninterrupted, but have you ever found yourself wanting/needing to say something and the other person is busy, but if you don't say it now you will probably forget?

Now imagine that in a 4 year old who is still trying to master impulse control. I mean, such strictness throws me back to the days of when children should be seen and not heard. Okay, maybe not that drastic, but close.

I don't really push the enforcement until about 7/8, at that point they really should be able to control the urge. Again though, all I do is remind and make them wait.

He's 4...everything is important. So I always say "If no one is dying and no one is bleeding, please try to wait your turn, if you can't then give me a gentle tug (clothes or hand) and I will get to you as fast as I can". Then stop as soon as you can.

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answers from Columbia on

I don't think taking away toys is necessarily an effective punishment for the infraction.

Try natural consequences. If he interrupts, say "Excuse me, I am talking to someone right now about grown-up stuff. Please wait until I am finished."

When he interrupts again, stop and give him The Look. If he continues, gently lead him into his room and say "Since you have forgotten your manners and insist on interrupting me, you are to stay here until I come and get you." Then shut the door and walk away to continue your conversation uninterrupted.

He will likely be REALLY upset about this. And he should be. When you're done with your conversation, go into his room, sit down and have a conversation about how every time he interrupts, he will find himself in his room. If he learns to wait until you and dad are finished talking/on the phone, he won't end up in his room.

Also, sometimes adult conversations don't need kids listening. Don't be afraid to say "Son, I'm having an adult conversation right now. Can you please go into the other room? Thank you."

Repetition will help...remember, train him for real life. In the real world, nobody takes your toys away for interrupting...they simply don't want you around and avoid you. Getting attention at the very moment he MUST HAVE IT is a power play. You have to remind him who is in charge.

2 moms found this helpful


answers from Jacksonville on

Depends on the particular toy (an absolute favorite attached one, or a throw away piece of junk, for example) and how he is progressing. Do you see him TRYING to curb his interruptions?

I say do what you see works. If it were my house, for something that could happen many many many times a day (that many opportunities to interrupt, that he has to restrain himself from) I would probably give them back that night at bedtime, or in the morning with a quick reminder to not interrupt so he can keep them all day.

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answers from Washington DC on

I would have him lose the toy for the rest of that day and evening and return it to him the next day, with a statement that "Here's the X you lost yesterday because you interrupted." Nothing more; let the rest go. For a really desired toy, one day should work.

If he persists and losing a toy for one day isn't working (but give it time!), then talk to him at a time when he has NOT been interrupting; when he is calm and things are pleasant. Explain that taking away the toy for a day isn't working, so next time, you'll be removing it for two whole days. There will be no "earning back" (earning back the toy blunts the idea of taking it away as discipline--it's gone for the prescribed time, period, and he doesn't get it back during that time). Just tell him that you know he really can be good about not interrupting and you trust that he's going to think hard before he interrupts, because you really don't like taking away a toy -- but you will. "If you interrupt, the toy goes away. If you make a choice that is not a good choice, this is the consequence." Explain to him in kid terms what a "consequence" means.

Are you sure toys are his "currency" -- the thing he really hates to lose, the thing that can make him learn to stop and think before he acts? If he really values, say, TV time or the occasional computer game more, you might take those away instead.

A week or a month -- far too long to do this for a four-year-old and for interrupting, which is typical at this age. One day, then two, or find another currency he values more.

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answers from Appleton on

I agree I hate it when kids run the show. You cannot have a decent conversation around them because they need to be the center of the universe all the time. Maybe try explaining it this way "You can interupt in only two cases smoke and/or blood --- and a lot of it!!!!"

2 moms found this helpful


answers from Austin on

I agree with you. no interuptions are tolerated, unless. the house is on fire or there is blood pouring out of someone. Your child and all children, need to master this by kindergarten..

It is one of the signs your child is ready to attend kindergarten.
It is just like being able to sit and listen to a story with out talking.. that is another skill they will need.

Raising thier hand is a good way. to get your attention without dispturbing the conversation. . Or maybe if it is not a grown up topic situation. They can stand quietly until you stop for a moment.

It takes practice.. it is also good to show an example every once in a while..

You play your son, while he is talking to dad, or to one of his friends.. see how he feels. Make sure you say pardon me. or excuse me, to your husband.. and let him do this to you.

Let him know you are not ignoring him. You understand he has something to say or ask, but IF he will wait a moment, you will listen to him.

We taught our daughter to quietly stand next to me, lightly touch my hand and say, excuse me.. Or pardon me. I told her I would look at her to let her know i heard her, but I was not going to be ready to listen to her until I spoke to her.

Also in these situations we always said," thank you for being patient, what did you need to say?"

We also taught her to say, "this is an emergency.." But only if it was a real emergency.. Like someone had gotten hurt.. etc. Again a positive, thank you for letting up us know..

The other thing we did tell her, is that if she rudley interuppted, the answer would be no..

Funny story.. When our daughter was 4, I was at work and my husband was working on his car. Our daughter was outside playing like she was working on her car..

My husband said our daughter kept saying.. "excuse me dad".. Or "pardon me dad".. He kept saying, j"ust a minute".. and then "just another minute".. even though these were LONG minutess..

Finally our daughter said very calmly.. "Dad, this is an emergency.."
He said "well what is it?".. She said, "Scotts house is on fire"..

Yep, the neighbors house had flames coming out from under their house that were flaming up the side of the house.. Fire dept was called.. The neighbor had been using a heat gun to scrape the paint off of his house all summer.. while we were in the drought.. Idiot.. We had warned him..

But our daughter used her words.. and used her manners.. My husband started paying more attention to our daughter when she needed his attention. after that.

This is pretty normal for this age and so you do need to state the rules and expectations. Mopdel the behaviors as a family and reinforce with positive when he follows the behavior and disappointed when he does not.

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answers from Oklahoma City on

He's 4, he has the attention span of a gnat. He wants your undivided attention so he is going to do this to get it. He is getting a LOT OF ATTENTION for you too. Yes, he is. He is getting your attention while you are thinking about his punishment, he is getting attention while you are lecturing him about manners, and so forth. You are escalating this by paying him attention.

This is what I would do. I would simply stop talking and ask what he needs. Then when it's something trivial I would ask him if that was important enough to interrupt. If he says no then lesson learned. If he does then you need to teach him what is important and what can wait.

But he is 4, he is going to forget in about 30 seconds what he wants to say. By telling him to not interrupt while you are busy with someone else you are basically telling him that he is the least important person in your world at that minute. That what he has to say does not matter to you at all and if he does go ahead and try to talk to you then he will be punished for trying to get your attention.

That was explained to me one time when I told my daughter to not interrupt me while I was talking to a child welfare worker about a volunteer activity I was helping with. She told me that it was teaching the child that they had no voice and that they were unimportant. The people we are talking to are nothing to us. They are not our most important person in the world. Our children should be that.

She told me that I was teaching my daughter that I would never listen when she had something to say and that when she really needed to talk to me, perhaps about drugs or sex or being bullied that she would not come to me and talk about it. That I would have killed any opportunity for that to ever happen.

I thought about what she had told me and realized that it was MY hangup, that most people looked at me like I was nuts when I told my child to stop talking to me. A civil person will not mind you saying excuse me just a moment then listening to what a child has to say.

They will think more of you as a parent if you talk to your child about interrupting an adult conversation and try to teach them when it's okay or not okay. Think of your child as your student, not your child, and teach them in a loving way that still fills their heart with confidence and self image goodness.

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answers from Williamsport on

Don't feel bad. I was much firmer on that to nip it super quick. A couple of "Let me hang up, sting a butt, and call you right back"s did the trick (the warning worked once they knew I meant it). I'd say for 4 losing the toy for too long is pointless due to attention span. And the tears aren't the gauge of how effective it is (man can kids be dramatic and howl..) the gauge is if he keeps doing it or not, so be prepared to firm up (hard habit to break!) and I commend you taking this seriously. Mine are 6, 4 and 3, and stop immediately when reminded not to interrupt. It's very impressive and people compliment them all the time. It's natural now and takes no discipline but at age 3-4 diligence is key to set the habit for politeness. Interrupting kids are SO ANNOYING, and it's like very few parents know how to stop it these days so it seems to be accepted.

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answers from Hartford on

I think that verbal reminders and brief, immediate consequences/reprimands are appropriate. At four years old, you need to understand that it really does take many, many times to learn certain rules especially related to social manners. For some children they pick up those social cues more easily. For other children what they have to say is just SO VERY IMPORTANT MOM! SO VERY IMPORTANT! I HAVE TO SHARE IT NOW!!!!!!! because that impulse is so strong.

And what do children have very little of at 4 years old? Impulse control. I think that he needs a little more leeway than you're giving him, and less in the way of punishment.

My eldest daughter is 12 years old, and her impulse control (especially in regard to talking) can be very poor at times. I still have to give her gentle, verbal reminders not to interrupt, which she finds annoying, but she listens. I do have to remember that there ARE times when what she has to say will be more important than the conversation I'm already having. There have been safety issues she's alerted me to or issues with my autistic daughter. She's let me know if something was about to burn on the stove. It's not always rudeness.

"Honey, I'm having a conversation with ____. Can this wait?" And she knows what that means... is this a safety issue or something truly urgent or is this an attention-getter, rude gesture, or attempt to join in an adult conversation that you weren't invited into. I give her two fair warnings and if I have to give a third for rudeness, she gets isolated "without anything plugged into an outlet" and no fun for half an hour. She has to clean her room or sit on her bed doing nothing. Either one is torture. :-)

My 7 year old will come straight out and say, "Mommy, I'm sorry to interrupt and I wouldn't but this is important." :-) If she interrupts I know that I really should pay attention.

My almost-10 year old... Autism is always a work in progress with social cues. I handle her as each situation presents itself, to be honest. I don't usually discourage her from speaking since she doesn't often initiate actual conversations or even speak in complete sentences all the time. I do what I can to encourage speech with her and raise her confidence while also teaching her manners.

I guess my point is that it really depends on the child. It's not really just my needs and Annoyance And Frustration Meter that's important, but how best to teach each individual based on their personality and learning style.

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answers from Los Angeles on

I think loss of a toy for a day.I wonder if positive reinforcement might work better? I'm on the phone. If you do this while I am on phone, talking to someone etc then you will get , insert whatever seems right to you. In my house a piece of chocolate works wonders. Swimming or a bike ride works too. I add those if I was going to suggest them anyway. Ahh. Sneaky mommy. I also have found if I want my phone call to be uninterrupted I have to be realistic and be off in about 10-15 minutes. That seems an eternity to a little one. Good luck! It works for us.

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answers from Honolulu on

Teach him to raise his hand, when he wants a turn to speak.

He is 4.
Keep expectations, age appropriate.
I personally would not punish my child, for that.
Kids are kids.
I pick my battles.
For me, this is not a battle to fight.
Per age juncture, a child learns more, and per development, they gradually acquire, more skills.

Just teach him to raise his hand.
But, kids make mistakes too.
They are not 100% perfect, per their impulses.
But that is just me.

My kids, are really expressive. I value that in them. But they are 6 and 9 now. And they are fine and well behaved. We all talk and take our turns. And I come from a very very expressive home growing up, and often, EVERYONE would be talking at the same time.
That is no big deal to me. It was a jovial home.
Then at school, my kids are really great.
They know their place and are very well behaved. Their Teachers, always commend them on their behavior.
Its fine.

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answers from Cincinnati on

I totally understand your frustration. My son also went through a phase of constantly interrupting me whenever I tried to have a conversation with someone, and especially whenever I had to talk on the phone. Please remember that everything your child learns will take practice. Part of practicing is constantly reminding your child how, or why to do something. I know this is hard to do when we are hit with something that is a particular personal pet-peeve. I have even sometimes forgotten this little fact, but fortunately some nice mamas on here helped me remember.

It took some time for my son to stop always interrupting my conversations with others, and he still sometimes interrupts me. I noticed that he started interrupting me badly when he was around 4 years old. He is now 5, and oh what a difference a year and a lot of patience and reminding has done. This is what I have done, and it seems to really be working because he is interrupting a lot less now.

First if I know that I am going to be on the phone or need to talk with someone ahead of time, this is what I do. I tell my son that I will need to talk with someone and he needs to be quiet so that I can hear the person. If we are at home, then I ask him to specifically do something while I am talking. Usually, I have him draw, color, do puzzles, or read his books when I am talking on the phone.

He knows that he should interrupt me if there is an emergency. I go over what an emergency is with him: first telling him, then asking him to repeat it back to me, then asking him some example questions. He knows that an emergency is someone getting hurt, the cat getting sick, or fire and smoke, or someone at the door. (We sometimes can't hear the doorbell in our home.)

If I know someone will visit, or we will visit someone, I bring along his drawing things and some children's magazines that he can look at while I am talking. This has worked extremely well. The hardest place for my son to not interrupt my conversations has been at church or with my husband. Every Sunday morning, I included in our family prayers that I wanted my son to be able to have patience when I talked with someone at church. I explained that he felt happy when he talked with his friends at church, and that I felt happy when I could talk with my friends too. I told him that he could help his mom feel happy when he is quiet when I am talking with my friend. I told him the same thing about talking with his dad.

If it is an unplanned conversation with someone, I tell my son to remember to be quiet for a short time while I talk with the person. It only takes a minute to tell him, and I always tell him that I believe that he can be quiet while I talk with the person. If he is quiet, I always say thank you to him. If not, he gets a consequence.

When my son is quiet during my conversation with someone else, I always tell him thank you for being so quiet and letting me hear the other person. I personally would not go for punishments, but would try teaching him why it is important not to interrupt and giving him something to do while you talk. I might even try giving him some sort of small reward for successfully not interrupting you: like a star chart. Once he gets so many stars, he can have a special small treat (extra tv time, his favorite snack, etc.) If there is no improvement after trying that I might give him a consequence for his actions. Have you tried asking your son what he thinks a good consequence might be. He might really surprise you with what he thinks a consequence should be, and it might be more effective to follow his own punishment. It certainly worked with my son. Yes, sometimes my son looses a toy as a punishment for a short time: until lunch, until dinner, for a day. However, I try to focus on what I can do that is positive to enforce a rule, before I break out the negative ways to enforce rules.

ETA: Before I give my son his drawing things and puzzles, I tell him that I want to see his finished work after I am done talking. I always follow through with this as well. I ask him to tell me about what he did while I was talking.

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answers from Dallas on

My 10 year old still does that. I put my finger up to tell him to hush and if he keeps it up I will tell him to hush and then ignore him till I am done. I think 4 is too young to expect him to learn even taking his stuff away.

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answers from St. Louis on

No permanent. You WANT him to WANT him to do good. So do not take things away for a long period of time or permanently. Maybe he can earn it back by dinner time (or a few hours later)...but if you keep it too long (at his age), then he may feel like even if he redeems himself several times that day after a mishap, that it's not enough. Just my .02!

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answers from Los Angeles on

as for how long a toy time out should last, I don't think 24 hours or overnight is the only formula by any means. For us, there are toys she will loose until the following day and toys I'll take for a week. But when it comes to the one toy she plays with for hours a day, namely her only baby doll, I only take it away for a few hours. Only you know if the loss of a certain toy for a few hours will or will not leave a lasting impression. But no, I don't think toy time out requires an overnight necessarily.

Ours is also 4. we are also working on not interrupting. Ive seen children master this pretty well at three, so no you're not working too early on it ( and by master, i don't mean they never forget, only that they are easily reminded and can quickly get on track) I think its defiantly an age that this needs to be dealt with. I personally am not punishing mine at this age for interuptions, but am just reminding her as much as it takes. I think its unreasonable to think a kid will be able to master this in a short period of time since its generally not an issue of testing and defiance, but simply one of forgetfulness. They need constant reminding. I don't think there is any getting around that. My guess is that your husband disagrees with your level of frustration over something that notoriously takes a while to get.

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answers from Cumberland on

First of all, a day is a week and a week is a month to a four year old-you may as well call it an eon-they don't get it. Second, I am old and my mother is older, and I have never been in her house without interrupting her while she is on the phone-it's just too irresistible!!!! Just do what you can with the training-be consistent-but permanently taking the toys away ? After a period of punishment, and a statement or remorse, he should be able to earn one back. Tell him if he doesn't interrupt you the next time you are on the phone-he can pick one toy to be returned. You're not expecting too much of him at four-he is, however, expecting you to be reasonable. After you have taken all his toys away forever, what is his motivation then? Be good so he won't lose his furniture? It's like setting a curfew. If you tell the child to be home at 12, at 11:55 they're driving home at breakneck speed-dangerous, no doubt. If you tell them they will be grounded for being late-after they are late-what is the motivation to come home-they're already in trouble. If you tell them to call you after the movie and the diner and tell you they're on the way home, it's more effective. Good luck-this is difficult, at best!



answers from Cleveland on

I applaud your attempts to deal wtih this, But I"m wondering if maybe he needs more attention up front in additon to the punishment.

It almost seems like he doesnt' need to talk until he remembers you are talking and that you are there and he wants your attention. just a thought.

I'm ok with keeping the toy in Time out over night, Not earning it back but having it impounded for a certain length, when the time is up he gets it back and then as long as he doesnt interupt it's his to keep.



answers from Columbus on

I didn't read all of the responses, but I saw that no one mentioned Love & Logic parenting method. It has a slightly different approach than most - less talking, more action on your part. No warnings, no threats, no lectures. He's definitely old enough to understand what he's doing and old enough to know how to curb it - maybe not master it, but definitely curb it.


answers from Los Angeles on


I have very well behaved kids and I have never been that strict or taken away toys. I just cut them off and say "I am talking right now, you have to wait" and then finish what I was doing...and I have a challenging middle child (son, almost 7) too....I will add that he will not be a constant interrupter as he ages, he will outgrow this phase.

Go with your gut. You are Mommy, and you should know what is 'fair' for your child.

For what it's worth, I am good cop and Dad is bad cop...Dad tells all the kids "when your Mom and I are talking, do not interrupt unless you &or your siblings are bleeding OR if something is on fire" HA!



answers from San Francisco on

I had a question about this a couple of years ago and people advised me to get down to eye level and explain to my GD that she has to wait and not interrupt. I'm sorry, but to me that defeated the purpose because she was still interrupting my conversation and having to stop my conversation and pay attention to her is EXACTLY what she wanted.

I will be interested to see if the advice has changed over the years!



answers from Washington DC on

I went with the explanation "that when you are talking when I am talking you are "stepping on my words." No one likes to be stepped on, it's very disrespectful. Now, if what you have to say is really important and you can not wait a few moments THEN you may say "excuse me Mommy but I need your attention."

I went into detail about what emergencies are but I also went into details about levels of phone calls. Meaning if I am talking to Aunt ReRe and you want to ask me something, use your manners and say excuse me. However keep those interruptions to a minimum so that I may finish my conversation and get off of the phone in a timely manner.

If I am speaking to Daddy at work, try to only interrupt if it's REALLY important because Daddy is working and needs to speak quickly and get back to his responsibilities at work.

If I am on a business call you are NOT to interrupt me unless it's an emergency because Mommy is working at that moment. I use my vpn headset for business calls so there is a clear visual clue to her that Mommy is working right this minute and I do not interrupt.

I will usually tell her prior to making a call "Mommy needs to call and I need you to remember your "phone manners" while I complete the call. If she follows the rules I make sure to compliment on what a great job she did using her good manners and I thank her. Other days she will chronically interrupt just to "push my buttons." On those days I will remind her gently the 1st time, 2nd time is a bit firmer reminder to use her manners otherwise she would have to go sit on her bed until I am finished. 3rd time and she's on the bed.

Believe me when I say my oldest is a complete attention seeking little She really does want my undivided attention and hates to share Mommy. However we realized this when she was 2 y/o and it's just part of her personality. She is quite a little performer and loves to sing and dance to entertain us all. She wants to be included in everything and still to this day at 6 we sometimes need to remind her that some conversations are for adults only while others are kid friendly. The ongoing trick it teaching her what conversations fall into which category. We're not perfect but we're making progress :)

Peace and Blessings,
T. B

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