Wow, Seriously Rude Backlash on My Last ?

I stand by my previous answer. If a baby is screaming because they are frustrated I would NEVER ignore him. It still teaches him that when he cries - nobody helps him or loves him. If he cries when you take something away from him, then give him something he can have. Distract him. There is absolutely no need to ignore him. And it will not accomplish anything. He does not have the mental development yet to understand what things he can have and what things he can't have. He also doesn't have any concept of time, cause or effect so there is no point in thinking that he will understand 'next time I scream, mom will ignore me, so I won't do that'.

Why are you doing these things - "Picked him up, fed him, changed him, soothed him, given him gas drops when I think he's gassy, orajel when his teeth are bothering him, rocked him to sleep, cuddled with him" - if it was a tantrum?

Simple solution...If it is a tantrum - YOU IGNORE IT! As long as he's safe, you walk away. Never engage with a child and their tantrum.

C. M., I wonder if you are confused about the difference in needs of an 8 month old baby and a 2 yo toddler. A baby learns to be secure in that first year their brain is barely developed past a primitive stage. A toddler, if he's mastered security has moved on to master other feelings but will still need reassurance. So what your baby needs when he'screaming out of control is for you to pick him up and reassure him that you are there and will help him calm down. He cannot do it on his own. His brain is not able to understand why you are not helping him even if you tell him why.

Even a 2 yo may need that help. I would sit on the floor near my granddaughter when she was 2, 3, 4 and on until she calmed down. I would pick up a magazine to thumb through. When her screams subsided to sobs she would crawl over to me and I would hold her.

I don't hear moms telling you you don't in general meet his needs or spend enough time with him. They are saying that you should intervene before he's crying out of control. Even cry it out philosophy tells you to go in and soothe gradually lengthening the time in between going in. I know of no pediatrician that would suggest leaving him to cry until he vomits.

Perhaps we misunderstood your post. Are you saying that you do go in, hold him, help him to soothe and he still screams. If that is the case I would add more to my recommendations. I would suggest that he is in pain, physical or psychological. I would ask you to look for reasons he won't soothe. I would ask if his crying is stressful for you. If so he may be reacting to your tension. One cannot soothe another if they need soothing themselves. Is the room quiet and the lights dim? Have you tried quiet music?

Please put aside your fear of criticism. We are genuinely trying to help. Perhaps ee don't understand your question.

As for taking away something always trade for something he can have while talking quietly telling him to play with this. I urge you to read about parenting to learn this sort of way to distract him as well as other tips for managing behavior.

I went back and read your description saying he gets angry when he has to wait for your attention. To me this might indicate that he's not secure in knowing you will respond or that he's overly tired or hungry. Babies lack patience and get very upset when hungry and tired. My daughter and son in law hold their baby when they fix a bottle or food. They try to notice when she starts to get whiney and provide attention before she screams. They pick her up, jiggle or bounce her because she loves that. They nuzzle her neck before preparing the bottle or food. They mostly are in tune with her feelings. This is a skill that not all parents have. She's now a year old.

Tonight my daughter lashed out in anger at the 3 yo close to bed time. Both girls kept screaming. Their father and I held them and quietly told them they are OK. This took about 30 minutes so they were late getting to bed. When a baby, child, or adult are upset they need to be calm before going to bed.

I suggest you try to understand why your baby is upset and respond in sympathy. Reassure him with physical touch and quiet words. Let him be upset. Don't insist he stop crying.

Sorry but I think the term "tantrum" is what is making people not quite agree with you because babies are incapable of having tantrums. They just aren't. So calling the frustrated communication of an infant who cannot talk to you or show you or otherwise express his feelings "a tantrum" makes you seem like someone who doesn't understand normal child development and has unrealistic expectations of what a baby is capable of doing. A tantrum is what a 2 year old throws in the grocery store when she or he can't get candy at the checkout. The use of the term "tantrum" for an infant indicates that you are ascribing to him a level of motivation and choice that is just not possible at his age.

It is unheard of for babies to have tantrums...it's just not the same thing and shouldn't be treated as such.

Seriously, read some books. You don't ignore a crying infant, you just don't.

the 'rudeness' you encountered was shock at the way you portray yourself handling your very young baby. i'm not seeing much of a change here.
any reasonably tuned-in mother can differentiate, to a large degree, the types of cries her baby is making. you say you tend to each and every one, but in your OP you call the 'true screaming fits he has in anger' tantrums and how you and your doctor think ignoring them is best.
the answers you got are entirely applicable. a pre-verbal infant is not able to understand that he 'shouldn't have or could get hurt' with something. so organize your house so that he doesn't keep getting these things. the poor little guy gets so upset he vomits, yet this is occurring often enough to generate a post about it?
of COURSE he's angry and upset! you seem to expect the cognitive reasoning from this tiny boy that an adult would have, and that he will intuit from being ignored that he did something 'wrong.'
if you want to slap a 'tantrum' label on your child who is unable to communicate with you, knock yourself out. you're the one who told us that you and your pediatrician find ignoring him to be appropriate.
yet we're the mean guys.
heh.
khairete
S.

I went back and read the question and answers. I found only one truly questionable response and one rather snarky one--- other than that, you *were* given good advice.

Children don't throw up because they are screaming, babies will throw up, however, if they are swallowing too much mucus. I had one child (a toddler, about 22 months) in my care for a year or so. Her first month at daycare, she would cry horribly for a long time after separating from mom and then, yes, she would vomit up her breakfast, along with all that snot she'd been sniffing down and swallowing. Poor kid-- we got the family to establish a very soothing transition routine so we could help her relax at daycare.

So, when I hear that there's a child being left unattended and crying until they are vomiting up the mucus, it is not a leap of logic to think that the child's needs aren't being met. Some kids just don't do well with cry it out, period. Please remember that when we look at infant brain development, we see that all sorts of loss (including a toy which is taken away) goes right to the "pain" center of their lower, more primitive brain. Thus, they have strong reactions, which of course could be anger. The difference between a tantruming toddler and an infant is that the toddler has had over a couple of years to have a strong sense of security-- being put in a safe place to cry out a tantrum as a toddler isn't the same as just being LEFT. The toddler has had, hopefully, a foundation of consistent love, nurturing and reliable care not to panic when you leave them in distress, but to deal with that energy and out-of-control feeling in their body. Infants have NO self expression other than their screaming. This isn't a power grab for them, you have to remember, at 8 months, we are still at 'less time out (of the womb) than in' and are still reacting for their own survival. HUGE difference.

I'd also suggest that if he is getting into things he shouldn't have, you need to childproof your home. Obviously he's too young to 'just learn' what he can and cannot have.

So, stop being defensive, try to accept that most people *are* trying to help, and just use the advice you can use.

Once again...if he starts screaming and crying so much that he throws up when you try to lay him down to sleep, it is because he needs something. That something may be just to be held. You are not spoiling him by holding him. You are not teaching him that he gets what he wants by "throwing a tantrum". He is to young to understand any of that and he is certainly to young to throw tantrums. His only way to communicate is to cry. If you do not pick him up and hold him when he is telling you he needs that you will hurt his emotional development. He will learn he can't rely on you. If an 8 month old is crying, and you can sooth them by simply picking them up then by all means do it!

If he gets mad when he grabs something he should not have and you take it from him, I would try distracting him with something else. He'll get over it. Some kids are just not as distract-able as others.

Didn't read or answer your other question but what I find rude is people that must post another question to complain about their answers to their other question and include what they want to say to those mean people.

So is that what you want, people to say oh, you are right? Sorry but even not reading your question I am going to fall back on raising four kids and say, nope! an eight month old has not developed the intellectual capacity to have a temper tantrum. They may scream but that is communicating to them, it isn't a tantrum.

So stop telling people off, most here have probably been there done that and you are wet behind the ears. He isn't angry, he wants it back, he is saying I want this back.

I can't help but make the observation, this post is you having a tantrum.

Marda brings up some very good points.

I also want to ask, how young was your baby when you started ignoring them for a bit before you went in to see if they needed something? I get the feeling he was very young, probably a newborn, and you were very tired when he woke up at night. If that is the case you taught him to be insecure. If babies can't see you they think you are gone. If I remember correctly the ability to understand that things exist outside their field of vision doesn't develop till after a year old.

So what he is doing is calling for you to come help him and you have taught him don't depend on this being quick or slow, to him it is forever because he can't see a clock and think, well I have only been crying for a minute. What he has figured out is you don't come until he is good and worked up, usually throwing up so he is probably getting to that state quicker because it makes mommy appear.

Go back to right away and teach him you are there for him.

Call it a tantrum, call him angry, whatever it is -- he is too young too ignore, even if he's angry or having a 'tantrum.' At 8 months old, you still have to soothe them.

When he's about 1-1/2, if he starts throwing a fit when he doesn't get his way, you could try ignoring him at that point, and see if it works. But you still may have to help him work through his emotions at that time.

Despite your clarification of your question, most of us still agree that whatever you want to call your 8 month old son's behavior, tantrum, anger, fit, whatever, you need to tend to him and soothe him.

Your previous question was mainly focused on bed and nap time (go back and read it) so how is he having something "taken away from him" (other than you) during those times?
And when you DO need to take something away from him, you take it, pick him up and distract him with something else.

In your original question you said you were ignoring him until he threw up. That's a whole lot different than "I just don't get there in time."

8 month olds do not throw tantrums.
They are too young.
Maybe 'tantrum' is the wrong term.
Sure they can be angry but it's not on par with the kind of fit pitching 2 and 3 yr olds can throw.
Wait till your son is that age and THEN you'll see what the difference is.

I didn't respond to your other question.
I've never seen an 8 month old "throw a tantrum" either, though.

I missed the first question... and generally, I don't take well to follow up posts that are complaining about the original responses.
But, the whole thing reads to me like this is about a communication problem between you and your baby, which is completely normal. Babies have wants/desires, and little ability to communicate what they are. It is extremely frustrating. Have you considered (or did others already suggest) teaching him to sign?
Baby sign language can be a huge benefit to parents and children who are easily frustrated due to inability to communicate. Baby can communicate to you what he wants without screaming. It works. Try it.

Only a small percentage of kids do this...so the parents whose kids are not like this cannot possibly understand. My daughter used to have what the doctors called a "sensitive gag relfex" and when she would get upset about something and cry she would throw up. Almost every time. We had so many puke stains on the carpet we ended up ripping it all up and putting down pergo floors. I can't even tell you how much laundry I used to have to do. She outgrew it by age 2. As a result of this I never could do any sleep training with her (it did not take very long till she threw up) and finally this summer at age 4 and a half she has learned to go to sleep without me there beside her. Finally! I missed your first post, so I can only guess your son's age. It sounds like the little guy has a temper. If he is like my daughter, you just can't do what other parents do and ignore him at all...otherwise you are dealing with puke. But if he is like my daughter he will outgrow it. I guess if it were me I'd try to empathize with him when he is mad I took something away. I would not give it back and give in. But I'd try to soothe him. I used to do this with my daughter and often she'd still puke on me. Then we would clean it all up and she would calm down and I'd hold her a while. It's no fun to have a kid who pukes when upset, but the upside is most kids outgrow it by age 2.

My daughter screamed as though she were angry from the time she was just a few weeks old. I knew it couldn't be anger over a toy, etc., but it was definitely not the cry of a baby in need of changing, feeding, etc.

I would suggest that first you begin a log, or journal. Pay specific attention to what your child drank or ate, the environment (loud, quiet, warm, cool, etc). Be very specific.

We consulted a doctor who explained that a child can have allergies or intolerances that do not result in hives or visible effects. We were sent to an allergist, a gastroenterologist and a pediatric pain specialist.

My daughter was diagnosed with a very severe food intolerance, and it was to an ordinary everyday food that nearly every baby eats. The gastroenterologist determined that her digestive system was seriously damaged by the food she was eating (that she could not digest) and she was in near constant pain. However, the cure was as simple as removing the food entirely (she was given some meds for a very short time) and allowing her system to rest and naturally heal. Just a few days after completely changing her diet (and reading labels and being very careful), she stopped screaming. She's grown now but still cannot tolerate those foods, but it's pretty easy to manage.

You might try evaluating your child's foods. Is he getting anything that contains any artificial sweeteners (even in tiny amounts)? Are you breast-feeding him, and if you are, what foods are you consuming that might bother him? What is he eating if he's having some baby food or table food? What does he drink in a bottle or sippy cup? Are you giving him any vitamins or supplements?

Don't stop trying to figure him out. Try getting a video of how he acts when he begins screaming, and take note of everything that is going on, especially food and drink.

You have my sympathies. You wouldn't believe the looks and nasty comments I got with my colicky baby. It got so bad that I wouldn't even go out in public. Sometimes babies cry and scream for no reason at all, and sometimes it's not even that they need something. Sometimes they just are dealing with their developing minds. It can be frustrating for them, and in turn, YOU! It's a phase and it will pass. Hang in there and do what you have to do.

I totally understand the screams you are talking about. My son did them starting at 6 months, my second daughter around 8 months. My first did it when I couldn't pick her up while I was cooking around 9 months. They do get angry when they don't get what they want, but it's not like you can give them the knife, ya know?And you just can't always pick them up.

What I do is hold them, and give lots of empathy, "oh you want X, i'm sorry, that's dangerous." Use a soothing voice, give hugs, and they settle down. Quickly distract. This is where distraction is really, really helpful, and luckily, babies are easily distracted.

Please do not ignore this stuff. You have to teach young children how to handle disappointment. Read Ah paretning.com. Dr laura markham is remarkable.

And prevention is key here as well. There is a major wonder period from 8-9 months, and I really think some of the screaming is just part of them starting to have real emotions.

I think what some of the other ladies are trying to point at is that he has emotional needs. It's these needs you are ignoring, and it's really important not to ignore them. around 8-9 months is when they become actual little people with big emotions and things. They are developing emotionally, and when they scream in the middle of the night, they sometimes are feeling lonely, or scared. it isn't just about diapers and food. It's important to help them to feel secure. Using empathy does this. In fact, empathy is really powerful weapon is killing most tantrums, even in wild two year olds.

Sorry you are having a hard time! I have some advice for the tantrums. I work with children with severe autism and see kids tantrum a lot. Depending on why they tantrum we do certain things to help extinguish the behavior. If he tantrums because you took something away put it somewhere unreachable and do not give it back to him. Walk away to a place where you can still see him but are sending him the message that you are ignoring the behavior. When he calms down then you can talk to him. If the item is something he can have tell him when he can have it next. If it's something he can't have offer a safe alternative. Only do this when he is completely calm. Have him drink some water too if it gets bad. Tantrums are usually thrown to get attention. If you withhold attention during the behavior he will have no reason to keep doing it. Be consistent! That is the only way to make this work. Hope this helps! Good luck!

I am still shocked that you are coming back for more. Even this post shows that you in fact are not tending to his needs. He is a baby, babies cry. Are you grabbing the toy away from him or are you saying "honey, this toy is to old for you and might give you a boo boo, how about playing with this doggy...yeah doggy!!"- its all about your approach. And if he still cries go over and hold him and say that sometimes its hard but lets have some fun...and PLAY with him instead of ignoring him.

You are actively teaching this child that he cannot depend on you. Teach him that his worries and anxieties are valid and worthwhile (no matter how trivial they are to you).

You said he does this in the car....how do you know that he didn't have a burp thats scared him or a fart that hurt or is having motion sickness? What if he ends up being a high needs child or having a disorder of some sort that doesn't come out until later? You have no clue! Pull over and comfort him for gods sake. Even if its a tantrum- COMFORT HIM! He's tantruming for a reason. He needs love not to be ignored. He's throwing up! He obviously needs something! If its more hugs why are you fighting it so hard? You should welcome every chance to love on a baby.

I have very little sympathy for you and Ive been at the receiving end of a post that people didn't like. My child was born with "extreme" colic, only 1 in 1000 babies have it. Thats right, he screamed for up to 2 hours and then would take a 45 minute break and start again. He did this (although the times got better) until he was 13 months old. He did not sleep for more than 45 minutes until he was 13 months old. I NEVER ignored him! All of his needs were met and I never ignored him. I held him the whole time each and every time. And today we have an incredible bond based on trust and love and he is a wonderful and loving kid.

It sounds like either you are a narcissist and think this is making you look bad or that its just asking to much of your precious time so you are trying to put the blame on a precious baby OR you have post partum depression and are looking for validation for ignoring a crying baby.

Please get help!

unfortuantly this happens when you ask public opinions.

I for one flat out ignore that behavior when my daughter did it. when he throws a fit like that and your at home walk away (if you can and its a safe spot) or put him in his crib or play pen.

babies are not dumb. that is their way of trying to regain what they want. oh you took it away im going to cry and scream till you give it back. when that happens remove yourself (if hes in a place he cant get hurt) or remove him and put him in a crib or play pen.

if your in public it gets harder to handle. you can strap him in his stroller and remind him a thousand times over that mommy said of you touched you will be in your stroller. you may even have to go all the way out to your car till he calms down.

this is my opinion and you take it or leave it. but you cant come on a public form and get mad at others opinions.