Would You or Wouldn't You? Harsh Parenting and Intervention.

Updated on July 31, 2011
J.X. asks from San Clemente, CA
28 answers

We just got done with a 5 day extended familly vacation. My BIL and SIL have a two year old and a baby. The two year old is entering that difficult stage. In brief my BIL and SIL are uptight, old school, strict disciplinarians, always right, rigid, structured, high achievers with high expectaions (not saying these are all bad qualities, just painting a picture). They have marvelous qualities too and I love them both and enjoy spending time with them. But for the sake of this question, it is important that you know these qualiteis about them which they would also admit too. Different parenting strokes for different folks, it all comes out in the wash. However, I'm concerned in this case on one issue. They don't allow thier two year old to cry (she does it anyway). They meet her with harsh tactics and relentless attempts to stop the crying. There are threats of leaving the beach and not getting to play with her cousins for the whole day. There are calm and not so calm efforts to repeatedly tell her to stop crying. Its not really an attempt to remove her from the situation, but a combination of punishment and repeated attempts at reasoning her out of her emotion. I did not withness one moment of empathy or comfort (that only happens if she gets hurt) I was told this was going on but figured it wasn't as bad as other family members made it out to be. But It was and it happened so often it was hard to ignore and the more they insisted she stop crying the more out of control she got. We all insisted that they not worry about our ears, let her cry. But thier respons to that is "we're just not having it!" "There are some things that you just set a president for and we just cant have it!" My other SIL (who is very close and like a grandma to the little girl) takes her in her arms and tells her to just cry and let it out in front of them. I know unsoliceted parenting advice is one of the worst things you can do for family relations, but what about the little girl?

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So What Happened?

we're not talking tantrums here, just crying. Not even out of control crying in all cases, just run of the mill two -year -old crying. We are talking about styfling emotions with no validation of feelings. We are talking about trying to reason with a two year old and and treating her like a little adult. We are talking about trying to keep her from crying when she is hickuping and clearly unable to stop (I can't stop crying when it gets to the hickuping stages). We're talking about a child who is going to resent her parents. We're talking about parents who are exasperating their child. Its not just me. The whole family (4 siblings and grams and gramps) are sick to our stomaches over it. People who have collectivly raised 11 children past this age are concerned. Grams broke down and pleaded with her son to just let her cry, thats when we got the "just not having it" response.

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J.B.

answers from New York on

How is that harsh parenting? We do the same thing. When my 2 year old is somewhere and hes crying because he wants to run in the waves without us, we say stop and listen to us or we're going home. If hes crying at the park because I tell him he cant run in the street, its either stop crying and hold my hand or we're going home. He now realizes that tantrums will not be permitted or the funs over. Am I really expected to just let him scream his butt off in the middle of the road because he doesnt want to hold my hand? No, I pick him up, take him to the car and we leave. Funs over.

10 moms found this helpful

T.N.

answers from Albany on

I absolutely would NOT put my two cents in (maybe not even if it were solicited) with regards to how sisters/brothers/other family members parent their children.

Which might explain why I have a fantastic relationship with every single one of them!

:)

4 moms found this helpful

L.S.

answers from San Francisco on

It is really hard to watch other parents discipline their kids, especially if you see them making mistakes. But I want to give you a little comfort here - their daughter will probably be fine. I wasn't very well disciplined as a child, and I wanted to get it right for my kids. I was, in retrospect, too h*** o* them occasionally. But they actually thank me that I disciplined them now, even though I made mistakes. They know that it taught them self control, boundaries, and self respect. Unless it is abusive, it will likely be OK. I hope that helps. I'm not looking forward to that aspect of being a grandma, lol!

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J.S.

answers from Jacksonville on

Ok...it all depends. We do not allow my daughter to cry for no reason. This is how it works in our house.
When she cries we ask her what is wrong. If she doesn't answer, I tell her that I don't understand her when she whines or cries at me, so please use your words. If she still crying then, I tell her that it's enough. If she continues to cry then she can sit in her room and have her cry.
I must say, there is a fake temper tantrum cry and there is a real cry. I know the difference, and I am sure your SIL does too. Real crying will get love and attention, until we figure out the problem. Temper tantrum crying, does not get these things. I think if you give into the fake crying you are just encouraging it.

Trust me my daughter know the difference too. In fact today there was a little boy crying his heart out at a store. My daughter goes to him and says, "It's all right, it's ok baby." (she's nearly three), just like we do to her when she is having a real cry.

9 moms found this helpful

A.H.

answers from San Francisco on

Sorry, I agree with your BIL and SIL that she should not be allowed to cary on and on. Where I think they messed up was not removing her more quickly and more often and forcing everyone else to have to endure listening to the crying and the repeated threats.

8 moms found this helpful

R.R.

answers from Los Angeles on

Regardless of if they are uptight, regimented, strict disciplinarians, etc., she is their child to parent, and unless they actively seek assistance in implementing different parenting styles, it is their business. Poor little girl is more than likely highly confused and conflicted, and your other SIL is interfering with their parenting, quite rude on her part unless she is asked to. Sadly her interference will likely prolong her out-of-control behavior.

Her parents should be left to parent as they have decided to.

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B.C.

answers from Joplin on

No advice, I just wish that people would understand the mechanics of children and development...a two year old should be able to cry and express their emotions, now I could understand if they were working on curbing temper tantrums...but crying? Heck I am an adult and I cry ( and often) I am very emotional. However if they are making threats and not carrying them out, they are not really teaching her anything.
Sad...really, really sad.

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D.P.

answers from Pittsburgh on

I'm sorry, but they sound like butt-heads and I would have done what your SIL did, whether they liked it or not. I can not understand it when people try to silence their kids--especially where emotions are involved!

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D.K.

answers from Sioux City on

When any of my children begin crying for absolutely no reason or to toss a fit I tell them that they can do all that as long as they want, while in another room. When they are done, then they are perfectly welcome to come join me in what ever it is that I'm doing. If they want held I am all for it, once the tantrum stops. Now understand that I make all the time in the world for my children when they are sad and I am all for rocking a sad little one. I just don't care for the crying for no reason, fake crying, or tantrum throwing. I don't agree with your SIL undermining the little girls parents. That is not cool. That could make the entire situation worse.

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S.A.

answers from Chicago on

In this case, you might want to intervene. This will backfire on them big time and she will rebel when she's older. She's only two, so if they change things now, they'll have an easier time. I wish I would've changed my discipline tactics a long time ago with my own daughter. It might have spared me a lot of unnecessary grief. She's 9 now and we're really struggling with her behavior. People (me included) tend to want to raise their kids the way they were raised. But all kids are different. I have to use a different style with each of my kids because they all react/respond differently to discipline.

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C.K.

answers from Chicago on

I'd butt out unless there is really physical or mental harm. We all parent differently and follow different parenting philosophies. I can't stand the noise of crying and tell my kids to stop....yes they still cry and yes I still don't like the noise. What works for some, doesn't work for others.

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S.M.

answers from Kansas City on

No one likes to see other peoples discipline. We should always be ready to intervene if someone is being hurt. But this business about allowing kids to just cry and cry is a touchy subject. I grew up with that kind of mentality..."let me give you something to cry about". And yet, I've seen kids turn on the tears like a faucet that can be turned on and off like the flick of a wrist. They are with her everyday. They know if she is a drama queen. It's best to stay out of it and let them be her parents.

I don't deal with the crying either. I won't. I will take my child away, back, to bed, out of....whatever it takes to make sure that they know if they are going to cry it's going to be dealt with. But, I'm much more apt to tell them...if you are crying you are tired. If you are tired, lets go to bed. That gives them a chance to handle their emotions. If they can't stop crying they need to sleep. If they are playing their parents or caregivers, they'll stop.

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L.S.

answers from Spokane on

I kind of see their point: I can't *stand* it when my girls cry for no reason and I have stopped a fun activity because of it. BUT, they're older and understand more than a 2 year old.

Honestly, stay out of it. They're not abusing her so you need to let them parent their child the way they see fit. I mean, how would you feel if you told your child not to do something and they swooped in and said "it's ok honey, you can do it with ME around"? I know I'd be pissed right off (and do when my MIL pulls this with one of my kids!). If she's going to rebel when she gets older - it's THEIR problem; if they insist on leaving every time she cries - it's THEIR loss of a fun time. Really though, unless they ASK for your opinion I'd stay out of it.

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S.S.

answers from Daytona Beach on

i wouldn't say anything either. i've been places with my kids when they start crying (my kids can cry at the drop of a hat, very dramatic) and i have told them that we would leave also. i think that being a parent and being around your child all the time, you know them better than others. maybe their daughter is a drama queen, too. and it can happen at 2. :). but as you said different strokes for different folks. as long as she is allowed to express her emotions in other ways, i don't see where it will harm her in the long run.

on a side note, did you know that indian babies weren't allowed to cry? their parents would pinch their nostrils and close their mouths to stop them from crying. that way they learned not to as a safety precaution to not alert enemy tribes. just thought it was interesting :)

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S.T.

answers from Kansas City on

what was the reason for the crying? was she hurt? if she was just throwing a fit or crying because she couldnt get what she wanted then I agree with your BIL and SIL. my busband and I are strict, but to a certain degree. if there is really something wrong with our 2 year son then we let him cry a bit but then it's time to calm down. if he is just mad because he got milk instead of juice then it is not allowed.

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C.C.

answers from San Francisco on

I guess my problem with the way your SIL and BIL handled it was that they made threats but obviously didn't keep them. That's not harsh, it's just stupid. If you make a threat, you'd better keep it, or in a few years you're in big trouble! I guess my reaction to them would be, "Hey, why don't I take little Susie for a walk to the car and back. That way you guys will get a break for a minute." and then walk really slowly with Susie for a good 10 minutes until she can get hold of herself and stop crying. Then when you got back to her with a calm, collected child, say, "I always found with my kids that they just needed a chance to cool off." You know - that way you're not really giving unsolicited advice, you're just showing them by example what works. ;)

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G.H.

answers from Chicago on

when it's unreasonable out of control crying, i have my kids go to a private place to calm down.....if we are at home it's their room, if we are out it may be the car or under a tree.

if it's a hurt cry i will hold them to calm them down

also they are parents to a 2 yr old, they are still learning too. We all don't pop out kids & are automatically experts on parenting. But your right, its best to not get in their business.

other than that we raise our kids just like your BIL & SIL, although you made some of the parenting sound terrible or unreasonable & used words like rigid & uptight, I don't see it that way. I am sure that I wouldn't condone some of your parenting either, so yes different strokes for different folks.

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P.M.

answers from Portland on

My mother was like this with me and my sisters. She would allow only "happy" expression in her children. She still believes this worked well, and tells us with a self-satisfied glow how her well-behaved little girls were admired by other adults.

All of us, however, except the "black sheep," who simply could not or would not repress her honest feelings. And she is today an emotional cripple, living on disability at taxpayer expense. (Another sister sought the reassurance of a cult when she grew up, and the other two of us have needed intensive counseling to lead more or less normal lives.) I recall feeling truly angry, frustrated, hopeless or depressed through most of my childhood – the parts I still remember. I probably repressed the worst memories.

It's really hard to know when or how to make suggestions to parents who are set in their ways and "know" they are right. The only way I have found a way forward was to use a wonderful process called Non-Violent Communication. It entails making a clear, indisputable, and non-judgmental observation: "Your daughter doesn't appear to be able to stop crying." Try to find a sympathetic and respectful comment about the parents' intentions. "It must be hard when children are so needy – as a parent, you want to help them through this." Then give your own honest feelings (making sure these are not opinion-laden concepts): "I feel sad and anxious for a child who is not allowed to express her feelings. I am so uncomfortable with what's happening." Then make a request of your own: "Would you be willing to read a link to an article about Emotion Coaching (or empathetic parenting)? I'd be happy to send it to you as soon as I get home. It's been helpful to other parents in this situation."

They MIGHT be able to hear that. Especially if you can offer it while they're not in the middle of 'dealing' with their 'errant' child. I wish you well.

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A.H.

answers from Portland on

I would try to bring it up if you feel like she is suffering for it. It is cool to see that when you accept their crying and label it that it's okay to cry they stop crying. The more you force them to stop crying the more they cry. All you do is say something to the affect and if they don't respond they don't respond. As long as it's not abusive you can't do anything, but I would bring it up. At least your other SIL is very close with her and can let her cry it out. Hopefully she'll stick around close for the teen years when she'll need a shoulder to cry on.

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J.B.

answers from Boston on

As uncomfortable as it may be, I think I would have to step in like the other SIL and model compassionate parenting. It would probably piss them off but I would have a very hard time standing by and see someone treat one of my nieces harshly and without compassion, even her own parents. Maybe if enough of you align with the caring SIL they will see that there is another way to handle this?

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J.L.

answers from San Diego on

Hi Jane I think you have to look at why she was crying, was ashe ot getting her way, or did she not feel good or did she hurt herself, I'm old school too, we raised our kids in te 80's I would not say we were harsh but we were firm, and of course we taught our childrenn early in age how to behave in public. I have see many parents leave places because a child is not not obeying or not listening, but even in discipline you have to talk to your children notn at your children. There is nothing wrong with being strict, it does not make you uptight, Juvinal Hall and prisons are full of people who did not have strict up bringing, I know today all challenged behavior that I read about on this site it's looked at "Thats Normal" but as a mother for 27 years I will tell you that normal is different for children who are disciplined and for children who are not. If i was you I would just sit your sister inlaw down and tell her it's ok to tell her daughter to stop crying, BUT there is a right way and a wrong way to do so, and it's abvious they are doing it the wrong way. Use tact when you give advice. J.

Updated

Hi Jane I think you have to look at why she was crying, was ashe ot getting her way, or did she not feel good or did she hurt herself, I'm old school too, we raised our kids in te 80's I would not say we were harsh but we were firm, and of course we taught our childrenn early in age how to behave in public. I have see many parents leave places because a child is not not obeying or not listening, but even in discipline you have to talk to your children notn at your children. There is nothing wrong with being strict, it does not make you uptight, Juvinal Hall and prisons are full of people who did not have strict up bringing, I know today all challenged behavior that I read about on this site it's looked at "Thats Normal" but as a mother for 27 years I will tell you that normal is different for children who are disciplined and for children who are not. If i was you I would just sit your sister inlaw down and tell her it's ok to tell her daughter to stop crying, BUT there is a right way and a wrong way to do so, and it's abvious they are doing it the wrong way. Use tact when you give advice. J.

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K.U.

answers from Detroit on

After reading this, and other people's response, I am in the "I guess it depends" camp. As in, I guess it depends on WHY she is crying. Sometimes I see other parents disciplining their kids in a way that seems rather harsh and severe but I think about all the times I've been out in public with my daughter (soon to be 4) and I've had to get her stop some behavior that was not appropriate and I probably sounded pretty harsh too to some people. Usually it was some whining or crying that I just did not have the patience for after dealing with it multiple times already, all day long. Maybe your BIL and SIL are just trying to prevent their daughter from being a "drama queen." Maybe they have to listen to her cry at the drop of a hat over every little thing at home all the time and they have decided that they have had enough.

There's crying because you have hurt yourself. There is crying because you are genuinely sad about something. And I am fine with that. But there are days that my daughter starts up about everything that just doesn't go her way. We are out of raspberry yogurt. Her Legos won't fit together they way she wants them to. Her favorite shirt is in the wash. She decides she wants to bake cupcakes and we are not baking cupcakes today. Daddy ran to store for 10 minutes and she is going to miss him. And honestly, there are days it just gets to be too much, and I just have to tell her enough is enough - if she's going to keep on crying about every little thing under the sun, she can do it in her room. I can only validate her feelings so much before I start thinking, "Oh really, what now?" But there are those times I may just try to give her a hug, cuddle with her on couch, and acknowledge her by saying "Boy, you are just having a real bad day aren't you?"

Like others have said, these are first time parents, and they probably have a lot of ideals and expectations that may or may not be realistic. I think what I would be more concerned about is when they try various methods to try to get her to stop crying, but they clearly don't work, and yet they persist. If you feel that strongly about it, then by all means, say something to them. But I would give them some suggestions as to what they can try instead, rather than making them feel like they are being attacked and put on the defensive.

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C.C.

answers from Los Angeles on

I think the best parent is the parent who makes the "least mistakes" I myself am extremely strict with my child. From what you told me, I would have spoken up in one topic. I have never told my child she can't be upset, or cry. I do tell her she can't scream or make a scene. If she starts screaming (unless she's hurt or legitimately upset about something) i tell her, "you can be upset, but i'm not going to listen you scream". And then I send her to her room to scream with the door closed. If we were in a public location and she threw a temper tantrum...im old school i woulda taken her lil butt home.... i would have talked to her and said, "if you can't control yourself you are not playing for the rest of the day." And i would have sent her about 15 feet away to get upset, and wait for her to calm down. When a child is crying, screaming and freaking out will only make them more upset....Sometimes my daughter throws a temper tantrum about ANYTHING because she is EXHAUSTED. I let her have her couple of minutes, but if she screams, i say, "you can be upset, or sad, but nobody needs to listen to you scream." Sometimes it makes her temper worse...

At the end of the day, they are doing the best they can....the one thing i would remind them of WHEN SHE'S DONE CRYING cuz i get livid when people correct me when im upset. Is just remind them people are entitled to feel the emotions they feel including children. If there emotions are out of control....contain their emotions in a way that they understand they can get upset if they need to...but certain behaviors are not tolerated. My child knows better than to through a fit at an event, because i will just take her home after 1 warning..i dont care how fun it is for me...or how mad it makes her...and this technique (at least for me) has worked like a charm and your other SIL needs to chime out...doing so A) confuses the child and B) (and more importantly) COMPLETELY undermines the parents trying to discipline their child...good luck :) i hope you guys figure it all out!!

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A.D.

answers from Minneapolis on

The biggest issue I see are the empty and repeated threats that have no follow through. 2 year olds should be given a little slack in the crying department. But after a reasonable amount of time, and warning, I agree with removing a crying child from others company or fun activity.

J.S.

answers from Hartford on

I do have a problem with the way you described your BIL and SIL parenting style as being "uptight, old school, strict disciplinarians, always right, rigid, structured, high achievers with high expectations".... you describe them with such negative intent yet you're describing them as compared to your own parenting. What I'm getting out of your complaint is that you're more laid back than they are. Frankly, I don't see anything "wrong" with their parenting style as you describe it if it works for their family. You're in no position to judge.

As for the crying-no-crying situation with their daughter, it sounds to me as if they're having an issue with her and Crying At The Drop Of A Hat. It sounds like a high stress situation that they're doing their best to curb. I think that as awful as it sounded and looked in that incident, no one had the right to over-ride them and usurp their authority over their children.

What should have been done was taking one of the parents aside privately and suggest that they take their daughter inside somewhere or somewhere quiet apart from the group for a time out or cooling off period, or simply remove her completely from whatever situation was stressing the girl out. Perhaps and OFFER to take the girl off the parents hands for a while rather than simply doing it. At some point this family has to figure out how to get through this particular issue. Judgment from family members isn't going to help.

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S.H.

answers from Honolulu on

Poor girl.
If they keep this up, one day, they will have a child that will really not like them or rebel a lot or not even, tell them ANYTHING about her life.
Her emotions, will be, poorly developed and her coping-skills.

Kids cry.
They just do.
Crying... is also a way to signal... to someone, that something is wrong.
Or that the child need help. Or that they are unhappy.

It is sad, the parents are not there for her or teaching her, how to manage difficulties. In life. Or anytime.

C.O.

answers from Washington DC on

crying is a way to release tension, anger or anxiety...a child - boy or girl needs to be able to cry.....I too would have probably picked up the child and allowed her to cry.....

the parents need to realize that crying is a form of release...she should be allowed to cry - now whining on the other hand? I'll nip that baby in the bud - grates on my brain and my nerves...when my kids start WHINING - I tell them I can't hear them through their whining....

Crying - we let them cry - my husband doesn't have a high tolerance for it - but he will let the boys cry - for a few minutes then he'll say "are you done?" I don't think that's unreasonable.

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M.C.

answers from Washington DC on

I can see both sides of it. I probably would've been like you other SIL and calmed her/let her cry without yelling, to a point. There does come a time when a child is ALWAYS fussing at the drop of a hat that you just get tired of it and so the short temper comes out.

We to tell our daughter when she's in a tantrum to stop the crying, but I try to calmly tell her this to help calm her down. Ex. tantrum ... 'oh B, if you stop crying, then we can abc, otherwise we're gonna leave'.

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