Why Do You Think You Don't Owe the Rest of Your Country Anything????

It drives me nuts! My BIL was raised poor, and likes to believe he pulled himself up by his own bootstraps. He conveniently forgets the tens of thousands of dollars of Pell grants and federally subsidized loans that put him through school, and the Teach for America program that forgave most of those loans.

Yes, he's intelligent and works very hard, but without the help from taxpayers he would not be earning the excellent living he is earning today. I don't begrudge him that one bit, but I do think he should realize that now he's paying it forward to help out the next generation of intelligent people just like him.

You are confusing family help with goverment help. Two different issues.

Did I have help from family? You bet! Did the government help me? No way!!! That is the difference. You ask about public education, roads infrastructure? I PAID for those items with my taxes. Different issue. Family helping is different than government helping. America was built on the blood, sweat and tears of the American people. People who wouldn't take no for an answer. Some might have received some type of help from governement but for the most part did it on their own. The worst thing I could hear from someone is "I'm from the governement, I'm here to help".

I don't have the "I've got mine, now leave me alone". I have the "I worked my butt off get your hands out of my pockets again" attitude.

Kari,
I hear you.
I do not advocate the rich "giving" money to the poor.
I don't believe the poor want the rich to *give* them anything.
What I DO advocate is the stop to the inequitable way citizens are taxed. It is so disproportionate!
I would love to see the wealthy paying proportionally what the poor and middle class pay.
I have paid capital gains--I am middle class--it sure wasn't 4% for me!
The upper 1% have TRIPLED their incomes since 1980, while the middle class income has stayed the same.
The poor? Good luck and God love them, they don't stand a chance as long as their paltry salaries are being disproportionately taxed, as long as the rich scrape through with the capital gains loopholes, and the promise of "creating jobs." Jobs? What jobs?
(Don't even mention the murmurs of "did you see what she was buying with food stamps?! or "she has a nicer phone than ME!" What's next?)

There is a HUGE gap now between the wealthy and the middle class. The middle class is nearly an extinct animal.
The people lobbying hardest for no more taxes are misinformed and buying the idea that what is good for business is good for Americans. And it's just not.
Corporations are strangling the life out of their employees and then how do they repay them when they have record profits? Outsourcing, cutting benefits, pay freezes.

So--no--we don't really have to "rise and fall" together. Success isn't a "right" and many have and will fail to prosper. But there isn't a whole lot of room for the American Dream anymore. Right now, financial success--heck--even staying even--for SO many is much like trying to bail the Titanic with a thimble. The playing field isn't level. Not everyone has that "chance" any longer.

We were dirt poor as a kid. I did not receive anything, from anyone. I paid for my own college, cars, life, home, etc. I have always worked, and made my own way. So, yes...I made something our of my life from nothing.

Now, everything else...roads, buildings, etc. I did not build those, so I definitely benefit. I am always willing to help someone in need. I am NOT willing to help people who refuse to help themselves. I AM sick of my tax dollars supporting THOSE people. It's too EASY, for people like that to receive benefits. I will say, the vast majority of people are not like that. The vast majority are people who work hard and need help to get by. Or, people who lose jobs, have failing health, just can't get a good enough job, etc. I do not mind helping those people. The freeloaders...YES...I want them to leave me alone!! There is nothing wrong with that!! The freeloaders aren't the majority, I truly don't think. I think the majority of people are decent, hardworking, good people. I am happy to help folks like that, or support in some way.

My husband grew up eating ketchup on crackers for dinner.........now he's getting ready to buy the company he has worked for. No one ever gave him anything. And when he's making 6 figures, he won't owe anyone anything.........Yes, he got a public education and yes he uses public roads, but I believe our taxes should more than cover that....

So "that's not how it works" always and Yes, some people do make something out of completly nothing. It's hard work and those people deserve every bit of it. Get your blinders off - there are ALWAYS two sides.

I agree. My husband and I are in a pretty comfortable position and at least part of that comes from the fact that the state of Florida paid for my entire college education (Google Florida Bright Futures- a program the politicians keep trying to destroy every year) so I have no student loans.
My parents have been quite generous with us over the years. They made a lot of money with their family business in the 1980's. But the whole reason they got started with all that, was that my dad's dad was already in that business and got him started in it.
My in laws are quite comfortable after retiring from public service with generous pensions....the same pensions that district has decided are unsustainable for future generations.
I hear what you are saying. More and more, whether a middle class family prospers or not, simply comes down to luck. What does that say about the American Dream?

PS I would add that people need to start educating themselves about what life was like before social security, medicare, and labor reform. That is what we are headed for if we continue on our current path. Google "poorhouse."

I grew up lower middle class in a nice town with good public schools. I went to state school (through student loans I am still repaying almost 15 years later) and ended up with two degrees - a BA and a MA. My parents didn't pay for anything. My dear darling Grandma put $4000 on HER CREDIT CARD so I would have a car to drive to college - I repaid her $100 a month until the day she died - I never missed a payment even though I was poor and struggling as a student because it meant so much to me that she would help out how she could.

I hate to say it's about entitlement - but it's about entitlement. I never felt ENTITLED to anything - I just wanted it and I worked for it.

Yes - there is less opportunity now - there is no denying that. We lost a huge industry that once supported the poor and lower middle class - manufacturing - where people didn't need to be educated - or particularly ambitious - to make it. They just needed to go to work - ya know? And no matter how you want to coat it - some people just want to work. They don't want a career - or to climb a corporate ladder - or be president of a company - they want to go - be useful - collect a check - and go home at the end of the day.

This is where the problem lies. What can these hard working but NON EDUCATED adults/people work today? It believe they are the ones hit the hardest by what's happening in our country - and that doesn't mean they are lazy, or stupid, or wanting a hand out - they just don't FIT anymore - and that is a travesty. Everyone deserves the opportunity to work at a liveable wage and support themselves with basic human comforts (and some luxuries if possible)...I hope we can find a resolution.

Who says people don't believe they owe anything? Other than a fringe few, most people acknowledge they need to pay taxes - and do. Their issue comes in when the government keeps demanding more and more and more.

And, really, the main reason the government demanding more is an issue is because the government has a really terrible history with running things.

Also, many in this group do feel they owe others and choose to donate their time, energy, and/or money to the organizations they see fit. Organizations that they can audit, determine how the money is being spent, etc. BUT the more that government demands that same money to go to what THEY deem important - with all of its expensive red tape - the less money people have to donate to causes they think are doing good.

And as for public education, infastructure and loan programs - all of that was paid for by taxes and, in the case of loans, will have to be paid back. I pay taxes. Therefore, I have every right to use public education, roads, and infastructure AND say that I want the government to stop demanding more and more and more.

I say all of this as dispassionately as you can imagine - I'm simply trying to provide an opposing view.

To whom are you referring?

Damn right I don't owe the rest of my country anything. I've been a Soldier in the US Army since January 2000 (that's BEFORE 9-11). I deserve my security and success. I've earned it.

I also pay taxes for all of the public systems you mention above. They aren't just magical programs that are self-sustaining...WE pay for them. They are not "Government Programs" and "Government Money." They are "Taxpayer Funded Programs" and that is "Taxpayer's Money."

My money. Your money.

So how much more do I owe again?

Yep, you are so right. Every person I know who is well off now, is because mom and dad or some other rich relative/mentor paid for their school, or the down payment on their house or their business, or got them good jobs/internship that networked them into a high paying position... Obviously, there are exceptions. My inlaws were both abused and lived in absolute poverty... and they worked their ases off to be successful and provide a good home for their children. They are not extremely wealthy now, but are comfortable. I don't hear many stories like that though.

The American way is to help your family, help your neighbors. I would bet money the people you are complaining about help a lot of people. The government is a poor steward of money. People are sick of their money going to the government where they see so much waste.

I don't think this attitude shows that people are uncaring, just that they are reasonable.

I think it is the media that is twisting things around to make it sound like those that are against government programs are by proxy against the people the programs help.

Nope I think things do need to get back to the way they were. If someone in the community has their barn burn down there is the community lending a helping hand and money if needed. Not the government taxing the community then having someone oversee all the communities and drawing a wage, them having a staff that distributes it to the communities, and then no one at the community level being able to say it wasn't the Jones' barn that burned down it was the Smiths and the money being tied up for five years while everyone fills out paperwork.

I think your question is exactly the point. I was born late in life for my parents and they grew up during the depression. The way of life was so much different. The community was the welfare system. If someone was sick in our little town, the townmembers took care of them. If someone lost their home in a fire the community set about getting them a shelter and helping them rebuild. If someone was hungry, the community fed them. It never occurred to these men and women to ask the mayor, governor, senator to pass a bill, change a rule, set up a program or provide funds. Your community was your helping agency. Your community was your insurance. It was expected and the members of the community knew that when the time came, it would be available to them as well.

Everyone looked out for each other. A village really did raise a child because every adult around you was the boss of you and you knew it. You behaved better for it, too.

As our community has expanded, the role of government has expanded and people have forgotten what it was like to rely on each other instead of the almighty government. People don't want to be fleeced and told who should give how much, so they resent being billed by the government and they don't trust where the money is going. We have left the responsibility of community to people who aren't in it for anyone else's interest nearly as much as their own.

The answer isn't to help less, it's to help more and if we want government to back off, then we need to step up. You are right. No one got anywhere without help.

**Kari - what many people are going through now is the equivalent of a barn being burned down. A barn in 1936 could very well equal a livelihood. Today still we are talking about people's livelihoods. Very few people are in a position that we can't help someone else in some small way. We should all (regardless of income or circumstance) feel an obligation to do so. I think the 1936 reference is very timely because we have never been so close to another depression and we could probably take a few lessons from the wise people who came through it and out the other side.

I don't have energy to really respond, but this post reminds me of what my husband says about his grandparents. "They got off the boat and turned around and said, 'Get outa here you damn immigrants!'." People feel very entitled for themselves and rarely see the other side. It's human nature, part of our cognitive make-up.

Everyone should remember, the truth is in the middle.

For what it's worth, this is how I see it. My husband and I both came from broken families. We grew up in poverty (dirt poor). When we had our chance to break away from what we had known all our lives we did. We worked hard, had good work ethic, went to school while working and paid for school ourselves. We saved money. Then purchased our first home with our own money. Same for our vehicles. We don't vacation, we don't own a ton of technology, we don't own fancy vehicles or extravagent clothing, jewlery and accessories. We work hard for our money. We tithe, give to charity, pay taxes, and help our friends and family in need. We are not wealthy but we get by and are comfortable. It doesn't come without sacrifices though, but we are totally willing to do what we have to do, in order to give our children a better life.

What really gets me annoyed, is when the government decides to continually reach into our pockets and take what they feel they need whenever they want, and then decide who to give our money to. I don't want our hard earned money to pay for everyone else. I don't want my hard earned money to bailout billionares and multi-million dollar corporations. If the money the gov't was taking only paid for roads, education, and emergency funding programs, I'd be totally fine with that. But when I see the money being wasted, it makes me sick.

Call me narrow minded. But, when I look back at where my husband and I came from, I don't see why others can't do the same for themselves. there is nothing wrong with working hard and educating yourself to better your life. If we were able to do it WITHOUT HELP or HANDOUTS (not even a loan) why can't others?

My parents weren't wealthy and skimped and scraped to help pay for college. They watched other families have too many kids and lie about income to get aide. So who do I owe? My family. And I do repay. Road police, and infrastruture etc - I pay for already!! And as a higher tax bracketed taxpayer, I pay MORE than most people for these services bc in absolute dollars, I pay more. I don't get a special lane on the highway bc I pay more... All the people who have built up businesses didn't get there just bc someone maybe gave them a downpayment. They prosper bc they offer a good service that others are willing to pay for. My husband wasn't given much as a kid and not a dime after he graduated HS. He put himself through college on a ROTC scholarship, served for many years after, and got a graduate degree himself. The government paid for his education but he WORKED for the govt in exchange at lower than market rates after graduation as well as during school. So we don't consider his education a gift at all. It's a mutually beneficial transaction. People can do it if they want to and work hard. The owner of the pizza place we go to moved here from Brazil, worked his butt off 24/7 for I don't know how many years and already paid off the restaurant and more than one home. I've heard immigrants say "what's wrong with Americans? They're all lazy." So do I feel I owe anyone? Not really. In good conscience, I don't want to see people - especially children - starving. But I don't owe everyone a big screen TV and cell phone. That's what people are saying. We don't owe everyone every luxury they want. In fact, I don't feel I owe anyone ANY luxuries. Food and shelter ok. My taxes would easily pay for that if the gov't managed spending well. Luxuries on the other hand are incentive for people to work hard. That's why communism doesn't work.

BTW - I do feel I "owe" to small businesses to try to shop there vs big chains all the time. I know I'm lucky to be able to afford to pay a little more so I do. I much prefer to use my money that way than pay more in taxes.

Amen to Stacey. I could go on and on but I won't. I get help from my family, not the Goverment though. And I have fought through hard imes with no Government. People aren't entitled to anything other than what is in the Constitution. They should go read it if they think it is on my shoulders to make sure they have the things they WANT in life or WANT to live off of the system.

ETA - not at all. I don't think people should suffer. I think the system needs revamped and it's ridiculous the amount of people who are all for continuing to give to those who don't WANT more for themselves.

I don't want to be rude about this at all. I know it comes off that way, but I'm not. I live in a neighborhood where the average house costs $400k. There are families in here renting sectiong 8 that pay less than a quarter of what I pay, yet they drive nicer cars and their kids have more than my kids do. There is something wrong with that system.

You are so right, Kari. There is a lot of stepping on the heads of others to make their way up the ladder, forgetting that someone made the difference for THEM before that.

What we are seeing a lot of, though it has been this way forever, is those with the wealth and power only helping each other.

The American dream is turning into a nightmare for many.

Dawn

Everyone knows where I sit with this one.

We have lost the feeling of taking care of the village. We did a damn good job, making loosing touch with one another, Possible.

I have found something to be alarmingly true...People are angry. They are angry at forces they can not see. Some blame Obama. Cause that is an easy blame. Some Blame Bush for the same reason. I think we all need to step back and realize, this was not just ONE Presidents doing. Clinton, Bush one and two and many other Presidents played a small role is getting us to this point.

We have been lied too. And now we are blaming each other for the state of which we are now living in.

I do not think it is people, NOT wanting the best for everyone. Only a sick person would honestly wish that type of life on someone. I think it is easy to attack them though, because they are the ones who OBVIOUSLY need the most attention. And the cost of that is going to be a great burden. From there growing Debt from Healthcare to there foreclosed homes. It is gonna take alot to get things back to good. And since it is the People living in tight situations causing alot more debt to pile up or debt not being able to be paid..Targeting them is easier...We can see them. They are everywhere.

Why not blame the Companies(or our Govt) raising prices....For no other reason but to raise personal Profits off the top...Do you realize you pay MORE now for the everyday things...i.e. heat, electricity, food stuffs...And it is not because the supply is running out, no it is because they want to make more money at the end of the year. While we are hit with rising prices and less work, they are taking trips around the world in private jets.

It is not due to some global shortage of resources. It is due to the GREED that many have. That greed has made us all angry. Unsure of who the enemy is and well frankly we all just want someone to blame and are willing to wait around for our knight in shining armor to come fix what is wrong. We are the knight.

we have allowed them to divide us. And in my opinion there has never been so much unnecessary tension in the air. We can not have a conversation with anyone that is not of the same political mind....But WHY????

I do not think Any one owes me anything. But I will be darn if anyone can honestly say it is OK that the powers at be are doing and running things the way they are.

I do not think anyone is ''BETTER'' or more ''DESERVING'' then anyone else. I think that if you are willing to add value to this world, then yes there are some basic things we should be allowed. Living and breathing not being one that should be allowed but just expected. Education, Healthcare, Safety and something to eat everyday should be something we strive to get to everyone. Because we have the capability to get this done.

Maybe it's my migraine but no, we don't all rise and fall together. Not all things are equal.

I have worked my butt off since I was a teenager working multiple jobs at a time to pay for school without a grant or loan. I graduated with multiple degrees not owing a penny. I have never received any money from family or the government and I feel just fine driving on roads that I contributed to with my taxes.

I chose a field where I knew there was opportunity and risk (commission based sales) to make the income I wanted. This has also given me the opportunity to help out where I want to, they are not mutually exclusive. The taxes I pay would make your head spin, I know I don't receive any more benefits than you do.

Is it always just family help, large inheritances or public assistance? None of those in my case.

Added - I have never once felt entitled, envious, disgruntled or whatever at my situation. I am content with how my life has always been, it never occurred to be to be any different.

First I don't EVER want someone to think I do a job to make above any beyond my pay. I don't want to be a charity case or to think I am doing a job or service or donating my time for a 'HAND UP'. My compensation is all I want. Anything else I do that is above and beyond is NOT for recognition, it's because I wanted to do it, I expect nothing in return.

the government doesn't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem...and they don't know how to control spending OUR money..........it has nothing to do with a *hand up*.......that is just plain ridiculous that because I drive on the road that I need to continue to pay more & more for the workers & the architects for the rest of my life............thats what taxes are for, to pay for all the teachers, store clerks, tellers, hair dressers, mailmen, nurses etc.............

lets look at it like this; these workers are lucky that there are people that need their talents & they should pay us.......since we need their services they should thank us & give us a *hand up* because without 'us' there wouldn't be any work...................geesh already

btw I am living the American Dream. I grew up in poverty & had the free will to decide how I wanted to make my life. I chose to work hard. Earned minimum wage. Had a child at 17. Built my 1st home by 22. NEVER had a hand out from family or government. That is the American Dream. God I love Capitalism.

Talk about painting with a broad brush, Kari F. You're doing exactly the same thing. I grew up poor, my parents grew up poor, my husband and his family grew up poor. We've all busted our collective asses for everything we have and struggled to make it with the little that we grasped. We weren't given any special considerations or circumstances. We weren't given any special dispensations. We got hard knocks all the way around and you would think that meant we'd be pretty well off right now. Instead, all we've worked so hard for all these years is within months of being ripped away as if we didn't earn it ourselves with bones rubbed raw and fingers bloodied.

I'm perfectly happy to help out my fellow neighbors, friends, and family. I do so regularly without expecting anything in return. But everything I've ever received in my life, I earned and was not given by anyone. If you want to nitpick over public roads being driven over by my hard-earned car, or public education that my tax dollars pay for, or what have you, I don't think you really know what it means when you hear someone say that they broke their back working for what they have to make it on their own. You don't know what it's like to grow up poor, you don't know what it's like to raise a family poor.

It's easy to say that we rise and fall together when you're not fallen and waiting or hoping someone will help pick you up, but no one is willing to do it.

I grew up in poverty. By the time I was 5 years old, I had figured out I need to go to college. I set that goal without knowing anyone at that time who actually had gone to college. My dad quit school in the eight grade, my mom in the tenth. We never had any kind of government assistance. My family has never helped me with anything, not even to take care of me when I was sick. But my parents have given thousands to my brother, "because he needs it." Yeah, for beer and cigarettes which he is never without.
I got a job right out of high school. Because I was smart about my courses, I got a great job. I started college at night that fall. A little over a year later, my company offered to pay 90 % of my tuition at a private college. My 10 % was still more than a state school. I paid for it out of my wages with no grants or loans, except for an occasional loan at the credit union that I paid off at the end of the semester.
I also bought a house when I was 19.
My husband has never been given help from anyone either. He will be getting an inheritance though. That will go into our retirement savings so we are not a burden on our children or the government. We have chosen to help with some college expenses for our boys because they have not been able to get jobs as good as we had out of school.
From what we have seen, it seems like a lot of the kids at the colleges think they are entitled to a good time more than knuckling down to work. A great many of them don't even make it through the first semester without their parents there to "make" them do the most basic things like go to class!
So no, we don't owe anyone anything. We don't mind paying our share for social security, infrastructure, public schools, police, firemen, military protection, etc. We tithe and also give lots to charities and children in my extended family who have been orphaned.

Good for you!! You are absolutely correct. The farmers the miners the inventors manufacturers transporters everyone in the wider support system. I do wish congress would get back to working on what is best for the least of these in our country and help make it a good and comfortable and safe place for us all.

Sometimes I think that our little children are as wise and generous of spirit as those we elect to govern us who are only looking out for those who give them great big bribes.

I wish I could send you ten flowers for posting this; thank you! I couldn't agree more.

I grew up very poor. I was not working class, because no one in my family had a job. I got bussed to a wealthy school district because of a test I took that gave me that opportunity. Then my grandmother died and I inherited money that my mother used to send me to an excellent college prep high school. I have never lost sight of the fact that I have could never have achieved the success that I have if it had not been for those who came before me and sacraficed. My grandmother dropped out of school in 4th grade to work to help her family. My mother and father grew up during the depression. At one point my mother lived in a barn at a convent because her family lost everything. These days they would have been on the street, I suppose. I have worked since I was 16 and even before that I worked. My husband sold pots and pans on the street, washed dishes and drove a cab in NY, all so he could finish school.
My children know all of this and they understand that we expect them to take complete responsibility for their lives. Do I think they should be able to apply for financial aid for college (especially because their parents are teachers and do not have a large income)? You bet I do. Because as a tax payer, I know that that financial aid is a good investment.

My attitude is this. I do not want people to think they know my individual circumstance and I will do my best not to judge theirs.

It's very simple: the eggheads has been beating this drum like crazy lately. Secondly, it is a necessary myth that has been around in America since its founding. Thomas Jefferson wrote tons about the need for meritocracy in a democracy.

But the thing is, things don't work out perfectly. Ideological, we all wish things would be like the movie "Good Will Hunting," i.e. a classic example of a feeding of the meritocratic myth. Thing is, it is a myth, there are structural imbalances that don't give everyone a fair shot.

To put it simply: people need to believe that they can become the next President or the next multi-millionaire. It feeds a basic need that is necessary for working in a country that is increasingly become an oligarchy.

People also don't want to face the truth. It is too painful, and to do so, would destroy all hope, especially hope for our children's future.

I also think the eggheads are beating their drum because it serves them well: let all the little people fight while we multiple our wealth and take advantage of them.

I don't feel I owe anyone anything. You bring up public education but that is not free. Also our roads are not free etc. We pay taxes. As for family help as of today it has never been needed. I have helped out family members in need though and not because I felt like I owed them. Like I said I don't feel I owe anyone but that does not mean I do not believe in helping others. We shouldn't need to feel we owe it to others to help. It should be something we do because it is the right thing to do. I do hold in my heart a very special place for all the men and women who serve in our arm forces and keep us safe. Do I owe them? I am not sure that I owe them but I do believe they should be thanked every chance we get.

Updated

I don't feel I owe anyone anything. You bring up public education but that is not free. Also our roads are not free etc. We pay taxes. As for family help as of today it has never been needed. I have helped out family members in need though and not because I felt like I owed them. Like I said I don't feel I owe anyone but that does not mean I do not believe in helping others. We shouldn't need to feel we owe it to others to help. It should be something we do because it is the right thing to do. I do hold in my heart a very special place for all the men and women who serve in our arm forces and keep us safe. Do I owe them? I am not sure that I owe them but I do believe they should be thanked every chance we get.

Updated

I don't feel I owe anyone anything. You bring up public education but that is not free. Also our roads are not free etc. We pay taxes. As for family help as of today it has never been needed. I have helped out family members in need though and not because I felt like I owed them. Like I said I don't feel I owe anyone but that does not mean I do not believe in helping others. We shouldn't need to feel we owe it to others to help. It should be something we do because it is the right thing to do. I do hold in my heart a very special place for all the men and women who serve in our arm forces and keep us safe. Do I owe them? I am not sure that I owe them but I do believe they should be thanked every chance we get.

Wow, I am so surprised by some of the replies here. One woman said her husband worked for everything and helped himself by joining the military who paid for his education. Um, that's the government paying for his education! That is an excellent example of the government doing a great job of stewardship with our tax dollars.

Have any of you lived in another country where the postal system does not work? Where sidewalks are dangerous for kids with huge holes in them? Where there are not enough public funds to maintain basic infrastructure? I'm living it Italy where children have to bring their own toilet paper to public school. Yep! And this is a country with an average income tax rate of about 40% and sales tax (it's automatically included so you don't see it added to receipts) of about 20%.

I think a lot of people don't realize what a great job our government does and how much we take for granted as Americans. Sure, there's room for improvement. But a lot of countries are much worse.

And simply from a selfish point of view, if we choose to have the government not support the very poor who need it, what will happen? Crime on the rise, perhaps? We will all suffer from that.

Hi Kari. First I would like to gently suggest that it might offend people when your question is phrased as an accusation.
What do you mean roads, public education, government loan programs? Those are not free. We pay for those, through our taxes. That is not free money. We help others with our taxes that fund these programs. Perhaps if our government did not spend so much of our money on aid to OTHER countries, our own citizens would have better healthcare, education and other needed assistance. We do not live in a socialist society, where things are distributed evenly or according to need. What exactly is it that you are suggesting that people do?

It amazes me that so many of the people responding don't seem to get it. All those who are writing in saying that "I grew up dirt poor and earned everything I have and have never taken a dime of aid" well good for you. No is trying to take anything away from you. What those of us who are fed up with tax inequities are saying is that *you* should be able to keep on doing what you're doing. Earn a decent living. Send your children to decent public schools. Drive on safe, well-maintained roads. Pay into social security with a reasonable degree of certainty that you will have something to withdraw when you retire. Borrow money for purchases like homes and higher education at reasonable rates.Know that in an emergency, police and fire and EMTs are able to help you. Know that in a natural disaster, someone will provide you with transportation, food, water and shelter. Know that your air and water are clean and that our food and water supplies are safe and sanitary. Know that if you get sick or injured, you won't be left to suffer and die without help.

Of course, all of those things cost money. And that money will not continue to be there unless we fix the fact that we are not bringing in enough to fund what we have to pay out. Really, what is the problem with rolling back the 3% tax breaks given to the wealthiest Americans 10 years ago? Do cuts need to be made? Sure. Is there waste in the system? Sure - and all of that can and should continually be looked at and worked on. But in the meantime...roll back that tax break, close loopholes that allow corporations to pay nothing in taxes at all, and realize that 1% doesn't care about YOU, isn't YOU, and isn't helping YOU.

In a response to some that claimed on here rich people and/or corporations don't pay taxes. Can anyone provide a copy of a tax return of a corporation or rich person that paid $0 in taxes? you can go to the white house's website and see a copy of the Obama's tax return for 2009. He shows an income of $5.5 million but paid $1.7 in taxes which is 31% of his income.

You go girl! Applause, Applause, Applause. I think we believe in the same America.

For the record, I've never heard a successful person claim that they did everything on their own. Every successful person I know has a whole line of people they are grateful to who have supported them and believed in them along the way. No one lives in a vacuum. Obviously success, financial or otherwise, is impossible to achieve without some input (financial, educational, etc.) from other sources. But none of the successful people I know have had success handed to them either; they've worked, sacrificed, and struggled for it. For the record, there are many people who receive hands up and loans and what have you who aren't good at what they do, don't have a strong work ethic, or are lacking in some other way; it's not a failure of the country, it's a failure of that individual to be a good businessperson, restaurant owner, or other profession. In other words, you can receive the help but unless you also have skills and a desirable product/output it's not going to matter how much help you have in the end.

Having said that, here is what I owe my country: 1. to follow the laws, including ones I don't like, which includes paying taxes if the law dictates that I do so 2. to be an involved citizen who stays informed and voices her opinion through participating in elections and other civic activities (thereby participating in shaping and changing the laws as needed) 3. to be a decent human being: this is a very broad subject, but it can be boiled down to say that I'm not infringing on the rights of other people--that's real rights, by the way, not entitlements or luxuries that they want. For me personally, being a decent human being also includes following my religious beliefs which, among other things, lead me to be charitable with my time, money, and belongings.

As for the questions about public education, roads, etc., public education is paid for by tax money. Everyone pays into it, not everyone uses it who pays into it. Same with roads and infrastructure. Same with government loan programs. Some people would argue that successful people pay more into those things than unsuccessful people, but no need to get into that since there is a whole other post about taxes. My point is, however, it's a bit of a red herring to throw these things in as though they are equivalent to receiving an inheritance, especially if you are not going to acknowledge how much people contribute to those things. Have you never seen a business sponsor a school? Remember Boxtops for education? That isn't a government program. That's a big company. What about the adopt-a-mile program or private organizations that participate in consistent community improvement and beautification projects? All of those things are done out of a desire to give back to the community by recipients of the benefits of these resources, and many of the people giving the most are those who are the most successful. It seems to me that "wealthy" people are also painted with a very broad stroke of being greedy and turning their noses up at and their backs away from others, which is simply not true in America.

In short, it is my opinion that we rise together when we all respect the right everyone has to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness instead of trying to keep one group down so another group can be satisfied. We fall together when we cease to universally support basic human liberties in the name of equality, safety, or whatever other excuse is given to revoke the basic rights of some or all of our citizens.

I agree with you 100%. As a nation we have become a bunch of self centered greedy individuals that don't care about anyone else, and it is truly shameful. Most of us have so much, yet we are not willing to see even a dollar of "our" money go to help someone else. And on the top of that, the top 1% are paying on average 15% tax while the rest of us pay 36%, yet people are fighting to keep them from paying their fair share! Makes no sense at all.

nothing in this country is for free. nothing. strangers have helped me over the years, and i have lived my life and will continue living my life lending a helping hand to those who need it, whether blood-related or not. i pay my taxes. welfare benefits from that. what more do you want? my blood?

What Stacy B said! :) Wish I could give her 100 flowers

Kari,

What's your question? Do you just want to rant and point the blame on other's for wanting no ownership for problems worldwide? We have plenty of those who play small and who only help themselves or their small circle. Get over it. Focus on the folks who play big, and feel it is their responsibility to help others. Teach your kids that in order for them to win, their friends must win too. What is the point if only your kids are winning on the playground and their friends are losing? Your kid will become exhausted, and give up. Change starts with us......quit wasting your energy on trying to change others and be that change.

S.

Well, people in America are fickle, so I say to each his or her own and try to mind my business. If anything the Indians (Native Americans) are owed their country back.