Who Is Responsible

Well people can sue for whatever they want...whether or not the suit has merit will be for the magistrate or judge to decide.

Perhaps it would have been nice for Dan and Collin to offer to reimburse Bob for their use of the machine once they became aware that there was an issue with it. Seems pretty crappy that two people used this machine free of charge and now that there's an issue are saying "sorry dude you're on your own." Perhaps Dan (who was un questionably authorized to borrow the machine) could go with Bob to a repair shop to get a third-party to tell them what's wrong and how much it will cost to repair. If it's a lot more reasonable than $4K, maybe it's something that Dan and Collin can agree to pay part of regardless of whether or not they know the damage was from them because it would be a decent thing to do given that they got use of the machine free of charge.

Hopefully at the end of the day everyone has learned to only lend or borrow valuable equipment with written agreements or to J. rent from a professional shop instead.

I had someone trying to sue M. once over nonsense. Not the same situation, but similar with the phone calls and J. trying to force M. to pay. The last time she called, I told her calmly that I would no longer speak to her, she could have her lawyer called if she wished but I would take no further calls from her. The lawyer called, I told the truth, I never heard another thing about it. I would J. chunk that invoice, not speak with this individual at all, write down the info about when he borrowed it so he has it clear in his mind, and then I would move on. If he wants to try and take legal action, there's nothing you can do, but I don't think he has a leg to stand on and it will all blow over. Good luck

Whoever originally borrowed it is responsible, in the eyes of the law. You cannot lend out property that doesn't belong to you. Basically, the man who OWNS it could sue the man who borrowed it, and the man who borrowed it could turn around and sue the man he borrowed it to if he was negligent in it's use. Ultimately, though, your boyfriend's brother is on the hook.

Don't listen to any advice below that suggests that J. because you loan something out without a contract or agreement, they can break it and not be responsible. You don't have a contract with someone who smashes into your parked car, either. Negligence is negligence, etc. If I loan my blender to my neighbor and she breaks it, she IS responsible to replace it or provide M. with it's current value, IN the eyes of the law. J. because I didn't say "Hey, you can borrow it, but if you BREAK it, you owe M." doesn't M. she doesn't owe M.. I mean, who talks like that to their friends?

i doubt bob has a legal leg to stand on. he should have got something in writing, or at least taken a picture of the machine when he noticed the damage.
i feel sorry for him, though. it sounds as if he's a generous fella who was a bit too free in lending out his machine. since both collin and dan used it pretty liberally, it would be nice if they both offered to pay something toward the repairs.
i guess poor burned bob will be less generous in the future.
khairete
S.

Wow, dont you watch People's Court? They will end up going to court and whomever has the most proof is the one that will win, or it could be "thrown out" do to lack of proof. If it was Bob's machine and he loaned it to Dan, Dan is ultimately responsible for payment. But if it broke while Collin was using it would it not be FAIR that Collin offer at least some of the money to fix it? Whatever it SAVED these guys to borrow the machine rather than renting one on their own, is probably what they should offer up as payment.
If you do it logically, then it will all be fair and you wont have to go to court like idiots.

Document the incidents and since the machine was in working order AFTER it was borrowed he would have to prove that it steemed from something that your BF did, with it being months later, the macjines was used in the mean time, he has no case-move on

People can sue for anything they want. The problem as I see it, if Bob is a business owner, he may have a tie to a collections company who can hit up your BF for the unpaid "invoice" which will make the burden of proof fall on your BF. That will suck.

I would definitely get some sort of documentation if you can that the machine was working AFTER your BF borrowed it...... maybe proof that someone else successfully completed work after the date or something. That way you can prove that it was in working order and therefore your BF is not the one who broke it.

On the upside.... you now know all about Bob and what kind of guy he is. So, hopefully your BF is smart and will sever any ties to Bob so that he isn't blamed for stuff in the future.

I would call his bluff. He may or may not file a lawsuit - I assume it would be a small claims action with no lawyers. That's what the invoice is all about. You have to be able to show you made a demand for the money so he is getting his ducks in a row.

BUT Bob has no proof that Collin even used the machine; if he does have a witness or whatever, I think the length of time between your bf using the machine and when Bob "discovered" it had issues will be significant.

I would J. wait it out and if Bob does file a small claims action, file an answer and go to court. I don't see how Bob can prove that he didn't use the machine in all that time. I think you will come out okay.

BTW, the cost of the repair will not be offset by any insurance payments made by Bob's insurance. If YOUR insurance that pays it, then you will get credit for that amount. If it's Bob's insurance, then he's entitled to the full amount and you get no credit for amount his insurance pays. (At least that's how restitution in CA works)

bob is responsible for his own property. He let dan borrow it free of charge. dan let collin borrow it free of charge. bob can't sue collin since he had no agreement with him. he would need to keep track of and take better care of the property he loans out. i would ignore further calls from bob until he actually files something. its likely he wont and that he won't win if he does.

The only opinion that matters is the judge's.