When to Cry It Out?

Hi J.,
I remember doing the CIO with my twins at 4 and a half months. I think it is suggested at 6 months, but I'm not certain. I also had the same kind of success. I did it around then because I had to put the kids to bed without my husband, he wouldn't have been home from work yet. So, it was a saving grace.
A little about me:
Mom of fraternal twin boys, 5, married and working p/t

Elizabeth Pantley's "No-Cry Sleep Solution" is a great book to help with the subtleties between "fussing it out" and "crying until they vomit and are traumatized". I suggest this as a gentler middle ground to CIO.

My doctor told me by 6 months as long as they are healthy they do not need to feed at night and if you continue to do so you are just starting a pattern for the child to wake up in the middle of the night so...I would say at 6 months you could start.

I am so happy to see that it has worked for someone else too! My son is so much happier by putting himself to sleep. He sleeps longer and gets better rest. By the way, to those out there who think it is cruel and inhumane to let your child Cry-it-out, you don't actually let your child cry and wail. It should really be called Fuss -it out! My son never really cries, he kindof sings himself to sleep. If he actually starts real tears we run to get him immediately. He is way more independent and gets to sleep faster than if we were to rock him or co-sleep.
I started around 4 months. It may vary for others, but your sister-in-law may be getting cues from her baby that it is time give it a try. Tell her to hang in there. It does get better and I have lots of friends who are amazed that my child has such good sleeping habits. Like you said, it's not for everyone, but I'm glad I started early!

We did it at 4 months - so that night she was just tired and we were tired - we tried "resetting her twice" clean diaper, breast feed, cuddles and down to sleep - she slept in a co-sleeper in our room not attached to our bed - so we just said "you're OK." Since we were both so tired - mom and dad it worked - we never looked back. In other words less than 10 minutes and it worked - she's 2 1/2 now - have been self soothing since then.

I know people hate hate hate cry it out - but I think if you do it really early and it works it's much less painful than waiting a bit longer. My observation is that if waiting until the kid is 1 or 2 - the kid is way more determined. Also both mom and dad have to be on board.

Hi, I don't usually respond but... our little girl is 11 months now. Our dr told me to start the cry it out at four months. It was horrible. We stuck with it for a week or so, but it was 2 hours of crying every night so we gave it up. BUT, we tried again at 6 months and it worked in 4 days. The longest she cried was 45 minutes the first night. Now it's just wonderful- I kiss her good night and lay her down. She adjusts her blankets until she's happy and goes down without a peep! I just wanted to let you know that for us, 4 months was a failure, but six months was great. Good luck to your sister-in-law!

Hi J.,

I am a huge fan of cry it out. I don't say this to be mean, but it teaches any child that mom and dad will not always come right away when they are much older, not in infancy. It taught my daughter who is now almost 3 to be independent to a degree. We started very early, she began teething at 2 months, so we would give her a 10 minute to 15 minute window to calm down. Generally after that, if she did not calm down, or was screaming more, we realized it was from pain. All kids are different, yet the same just like us. If we are calm and collective, they will be. I agree with the mom who said "fuss it out." That is so true! :) We now have a happy adjusted kid who was not really coddled, and now trying for another that is a major blessing!

Many Blessings to you,

K.S.

I picked six months for all three of my children. (Though one never needed to cry it out - he was always a great sleeper.)

I liked six months because they aren't very mobile - so they aren't likely to fall or hurt themselves. They also don't need to eat as often - so I wasn't worried about my poor baby starving in the other room.

It was the hardest thing I ever did when I did this with my oldest. I sat up and watched him on the baby video monitor all night - and cried more than he did! But with my other two, I put them to bed and went and took a noisy shower followed by a long bath with a good book. (My husband was on listening duty - it didn't break his heart as much as it broke mine!)

Buy "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth
This is my Baby Sleep Bible. <grin> It will answer all your questions!
After lots of baby sleep study, this is what I did with my second child...

1. Made sure he learned to nurse until he was full.
2. Made sure his room was dark when he was asleep.
2. Always laid him down, before he was completely asleep. (Especially during the newborn sleepy stage)
3. Nurse about every three hours during the day
4. Let him wake himself at night (he never went over the 5 hour limit by himself)
5. At night, I would turn on the light a little (install a dimmer switch) and I won't talk to him or play with him or even look at him. :(

As he learned he liked us more

3. Put him in the swing and as he got sleepy, I'd pick him up and put him in his bed.
4. Keep track of when his naps and how long it was before he was tired again.

There is still some crying... mostly, I think, when I mis-judge his needs. But when I get the time of day figured out, the most he cries is 15 minutes.

I used a similar method with my daughter. They both were sleeping 9 hours at night by 10 weeks.

Hi J.,

I know this can be a tricky topic. Many hate the idea of cry it out. I personally think it's necessary. I think once you have learned your child's cries. Once you can identify when it's I'm hungry cry, or I'm hurt cry or I'm tired cry. Then I think you are ready. The sooner you do the cry it out the less crying they will do. Most children who need to cry it out, have not learned to fall asleep on their own and have been put asleep by holding or rocking. If you start to put them down without putting them to sleep first when they are new babies, you may not have to ever deal with cry it out. I have had friends who waited til their children was 1.5 or 2 years old and then they can cry for hours.

Bottom line: make sure your sister-in-law knows her child's cries. Because you don't want to let them cry for another reason then I'm tired. Both my girls were sleeping through the night at 4 weeks old. Book suggestion: Baby Wise- does well explaining to learn your baby's cry and rountines. I highly recommend it especially to pregnant moms. Get the knowlegde before you have the bundle of joy. Good luck!

After two kids who responded completely differently (one practically took no effort the other took weeks), my suggestion is to decide on the method and hang tough. The articles and research I read a few years back ALL suggested a baby is physically ready to sleep through the night by three months - the key early on is tho establish the routine that teaches them to fall asleep without rocking or eating right before bed (put them to bed awake so they learn how to fall back asleep on their own).

We were weak with our 2nd child and tortured ourselves needlessly by giving up after the 3rd or 4th night because we were so exhausted. Hang tough! If I could go back in time and change only one thing - that would be it!

Hi! Well, I have 4 kids and from experience if you start out by putting them in their own bed and putting them in there while they are awake you don't have as much of a challange. I had to do the CIO thing for some of the middle of the night wake ups that ended up just being a habit. I think there is a book out there called Baby Wise that has alot of helpful info.

I think 6 months is the best age for it. We never did it but the gal I babysit for did and it worked well. Within a few days, he napped and slept without fussing more than 10 mins. She and I never let him go crying more than 10 mins and she introduced a lovey at the same time.
I wish we had done the sleep training early on with my daughter(20months), but what we do seems to work fine and she is now asking for bed.

Great advice already so I won't repeat it. I do agree with the waiting til 6 mos. We did a modified version of cry it out, I could not do the Ferber method. I would ask your pediatrician what they think and how long they think the baby can cry for. One thing about waiting til 6 mos is they should be getting enough food during the 12 hours they are up so thy can sleep for 12 hours. My daughter ate on a 24 hr schedule because she wouldn't take a bottle so my situation was different.
So make sure baby is eating enough to sleep through the night. Sometimes they wake for real reasons as hunger or being scared. Also if you wait til 6 mos you should have a really good idea of the difference in their cries...do they really need you then you should go to them, or are they crying because of some other reason.

J.,

I would not, and have not, done the cry it out method until the baby is at least 6 months old. Before 6 months old their fussing and crying is their way of communicating a need. Even if that need is to know that Mom and Dad are still around.

I agree, it is the hardest thing in the world to hear your little one crying, knowing that if you just go in and pick them up the crying will stop like flipping a switch. I'm going through this with my 16 month old daughter right now, only she's teething her first molars. It's funny as heck. She's got two bottom teeth, four on top, and is teething molars on both sides of the top.

What we do/did with ours (son is 4 1/2, daughter is 16 months) is put them in bed and wait about 5 minutes. If they start fussing when put down it usually stops in the first five minutes. If, at the 5 minute mark they're still fussing, but it's winding down I wait another 5 mins. Usually by then the problem is solved on it's own. If they're still fussing/crying/screaming after the 10 mins total then I go in and comfort them.

If at any time during this period the noise changes from a "I'm tired but don't want to sleep so I'll make noise" to a "Get me out of here I'm scared/pissed/whatever" I go in immediately and provide the comfort.

This seems to work well. The few times I've heard my daughter wake up (we have a common wall) she's been able to basically roll over and go back to sleep on her own. Again if the cry is the "Something scared me" cry I'm opening the door to her room before I consciously decide that I'm getting out of bed to go to her. Think flying. :D

As for when they're ready to start learning how to soothe themselves back to sleep, they at least need to be 6 months old. Sleeping through the night is a plus, but my daughter didn't start sleeping through the night fully until she was closer to 1 year. She's always been clingy-er to me than my son. He was I think 6 weeks when he slept through the night. Every child is different, and the Mamma instinct is the best indicator for when you and your child are ready to start the self soothing method.

Hope this helps,
Melissa

I am a big fan of CIO also. I read once to let your baby CIO once they are 8 lbs or 6 weeks which ever comes sooner. (the book was written in the 1960s or 1970s) All my kids are born over 8 lbs. My first child I let her CIO at 3 weeks and she did great, but the other two I have waited until 2 months because that was what the pediatrician suggested. My kids are 4, almost 2 and 8 months. Good Luck!

My son was waking every 2 hours to nurse and I was exhausted but was trying to do the Dr Sears nighttime parenting/attachment thing. Finally about a month ago (at 7 months) we let him cry it out. My husband had to hold me back from getting him the first night -- my poor baby was screaming in misery! But just like everyone told me, the second night he only whimpered, and the third he slept through the night. Now we are all sleeping and happier! On some level I wish I had done it earlier, but I'm not sure if a much younger baby is capable of learning to self soothe back to sleep upon waking. Our dr said six months is the earliest she recommends trying any sort of sleep training, its when they reach more emotional maturity. Of course some babies are sleepers from the start, my little guy wasn't and he needed me at night a lot. I think it probably depends on their personality as well as mom's. I was actually happy to wake with him when he was really little, it was our special time and I wasn't working. Good luck.

There are some good books you can read that might help you decide. Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby by Weisbluth (not sure if spelling is correct) or Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems by Ferber. We did CIO with our first when he was 6 months and it only took 2 naps (he went down at night fine) until he didn't cry. I think depending on the baby you could do it as early as 4 months going in to reassure them that you are still there, but not picking them up. Good luck! I have lots of friends who don't believe in the "CIO" method b/c they think it's cruel. But they are also the friends that have to lay with their children for an hour or more still for them to get to sleep. I think it is such a big gift to teach your children how to sleep on their own.

We did it with our first at 6 months and our second at about 11 months. We didn't really let them totally "cry it out"; we would go in and briefly comfort them, but never take them out of the crib.

Hi J.,

I think with our first, we started right away as best as I can remember. He is now 9 yrs old. It was 2 minutes of torture for mom and dad! That's right, it was hard to let him cry, but he literally fell asleep after 2 minutes!
I don't think two months is too early. I slept with my daughter for the first two months til I finally decided that I needed better sleep and she needed to be in her own bed! I don't think there is one right age, but I wouldn't say they could be too young either. I don't agree to waiting til they are 6 months old. They establish routines from the day they are born. I think the earlier you can do it the better for everyone. And most babies should be able to sleep through the night at about 8 weeks, if the parents will let them fall back asleep instead of keeping a middle of the night feeding routine.
Hope this helps.

Young babies aren't capable of learning to calm themselves because their frontal lobes aren't developed enough (the part that does stuff like reasoning). Not that CIO doesn't necessarily work - it often does - but when they are too young it is probably not a good thing in terms of how their brains process information (many believe it generates patterns of fear and retreat, etc.). A good resource is the book "The Science of Parenting." It has a lot of information about recent brain research and what that tells us about babies/children's brain development. I would recommend checking out the first few chapters if she has questions about the timing of this (you can get it at the library). Meanwhile, I would recommend crying it out only when and if she, the mom, is really feeling comfortable with it. No one should push her into that decision, since it's very hard and goes against all our instincts, perhaps for good reason at times. Good luck to her!

Hi there,

I began letting my daughter CIO at 4 months. From what I had read, babies can begin self-soothing by 4 months and I thought I would wait until she could pacify herself. It took me two nights of crying 10 minutes and then she went to sleep on her own like a champ! I should say, she was also a pacifier baby at night and the dang thing always fell out so I would have to go in and replace it multiple times a night. So when we started letting her cry at 4 months we also took away the pacifier. This was the smartest thing we have ever done! She found her thumb and really enjoys going to bed at night...falling asleep on her own (both nap time and bed time).

We did the modified CIO where I let her cry for 5 mins then went in and shooshed her and patted her tummy. I then left for 10 minutes and actually never had to go back in. The key, I think, is not to pick them up. As soon as you pick them up they know eventually they will get thier way.

Good luck to your sister-in-law.

H.

I was exhausted by 4months and tried the CIO. After two nights of it, I gave up and told myself never to do that again! I was concerned that she was hungry, cold, has a blanket over herself, other excuses etc...so went to her. Also, husband wasn't on board. At 5months, even more exhausted after every 2hr middle of the night wakings. Husband said to try it out again, this time he was on board. Gave me earplugs, and told me that he'll check on baby at night. After 2-3days, she was sleeping on her own with no pacifier and 12hours of sleep (still now). It's been two weeks of her sleeping through the night and am really glad I did it. I put her down while awake for naps and night, after 5 to 10 minutes of talking to herself, she goes to sleep on her own without mom or dad in the room. Now, I just need to learn to sleep through the night myself again.

I think 6 months is the magic age. We were sucessful with all our 3 boys with CIO. I agree it is really hard to let them cry (especially for the husband, I found) but is so worth it. If you can just make it through those 3 or 4 days, they learn that they can go to sleep themselves. You can actually manage to do a few loads of laundry or get the dishes done that otherwise wouldn't get done. It's those things that help us keep sane.

Ferber (from solve your childs sleep problems) says that babies under 5 months aren't neurologically mature enough but I know some doctors that say 4 months is old enough. I did the exact same thing you did (following ferbers method) with my first son at 8 months and it worked really well - just half an hour of crying and it only took 2-3 days and I wished that I had done it sooner too. So with my twins I tried it at about 5 months old and I have to say that it wasn't as easy when they were younger. It still worked, but it took a week (maybe longer) of crying for them to get it, and they still had trouble falling asleep sometimes (off and on) for another month. Having twins I had to do it to keep my sanity, but if possible I recommend waiting until 6 months. After about 6 months old my twins went to sleep with no problem consistently and they are good sleepers now.

I did it with my boys at 3 months, and they cried about 10 minutes for one night, maybe 5 the next. It was so easy with them this young! I say go for it now, 4 months is plenty old! In school (I am a psychologist) they said these types of transitions (into own bed, putting self to sleep) are best done before 6 months, because it is the easiest on both the baby and the parent.

I think as soon as parents are willing to try is a good time. Both of our boys slept through the night at just a few weeks old and we never really had to deal with any "cry it out" experience because it was just always kind of expected for them to sleep in their beds. We, of course, would go get them if they really needed us, but you can usually tell whether they are crying because they *want* you or if they *need* you. I know we aren't the norm and I'm sure it's not totally dependant on what we did to get 2 such wonderful sleepers, but I think we did a good thing for our boys by not waiting until a certain age to have them cry it out. If you have any questions about how we did it, please e-mail. I hope this kind of rambly note makes sense and is helpful. Good luck to your sister-in-law and yay that your daughter is doing well!

p.s. I think some kind of routine is also very helpful for bedtime. At bedtime with our boys, we have a lullaby that we sing every night, read a story....we have added more stuff in for our older son. Bedtime is one of our very favorite times of day because our older son loves it so much! Younger one is starting to enjoy it more and more.

I am doing it right now with my 3rd who just turned 6 months on the 1st. We started 3 weeks ago, and each time I put her down the interval got shorter. (I go in and wind up her old-fashioned mobile whenever it shuts off, kiss her, and walk out of the room, so that's about every 5 minutes.) We went from 40 minutes down to 10 in the first week and have been hanging out there ever since, which is fine with me. I did the same thing with my older two around the same age. I think the later you do it the tougher it is.

My doctor said developmentally (unless there are other things going on: preemie, etc) they are capable of crying it out at 2 months. I couldn't do it so young, I waited until around 4 or 5 months. I know many people aren't a fan, but I totally am. With my first I didn't do this and we had many nights, up until he was 5 years old and older that he wanted us to stay by him or sit outside his room until he fell asleep. WIth my younger 2 I did the CIO and they are champion sleepers. After about the first 3-5 nights, no crying at all; I put them down wide awake, they fell asleep on their own and they slept through the night and woke up happy the next morning. It has been awesome for us in so many ways. Good luck! It can be a difficult road at first, but with so many things in teaching your children, if you stick to it and remember the reason why (to give them skills in the long run), it has many rewards in the long run. :)

I didn't read all the other posts, so forgive me if I repeat what was already said! I read the book Baby Wise by Dr. Gary Ezzo and it is great at getting your baby to sleep thru the night by 6 weeks old. The big thing is to get them on a schedule - EAT, PLAY, SLEEP. In that order. Don't nurse/feed them to sleep. Let them play after eating while they are full and content and THEN nap after. Repeat this cycle all day long. Another big thing is to lay them down while they are still awake but drowsy. This way they learn that they can fall asleep on their own. I have 4 kids ages 9, 7, 4, and 17 months and used this with all of them and it has worked great. My first child was 9 months old when i first read the book. Before, I would feed/rock her to sleep, then carefully tiptoe to her crib and not breathe while I laid her down, and pray the whole time I was backing out of her room that she wouldn't hear me and wake up crying....she would and then I'd start all over. Also, I was getting up several times a night to give her the binky (I mean like 5-10 times!) I was a WRECK! The first night I decided to let her CIO it took 40 minutes and I was still crying when she finally fell asleep! The next night was 20 minutes and the following night she went right to sleep and stayed asleep!

Dr Ezzo talks a lot about how this impacts children as they grow older into teens and adults. They learn to be self-soothing, self-reliant and don't expect the world to revolve around them. They realize that THEY are in control of their own life/destiny and don't depend on others to determine if they are happy or sad or successful, etc...

I think some people misunderstand the whole CIO issue. That doesn't mean don't hold, hug, love on and cuddle your children. It doen't mean don't nurture and care for them. You CAN do all theses things and teach them to sleep well at the same time!

By the way....I've had several people tell me I was "LUCKY" that I had great kids who slept thru the night. That wasn't luck, it was a lot of hard work and willingness to stick to a schedule. But it is worth every extra moment of sleep I get!

Sorry this was so long! Good Luck!

S. :)
ABOUT ME: I've been happily married for 14 years and have 4 kiddos ages 9, 7, 4, and 17 months. Our youngest has spina bifida. Read his story at www.caringbridge.org/visit/babybrendan

Hi J.,
I think 8-10 months is the appropriate age. Any younger then that, they are crying for comfort and need to be reassured. We did the crying it out with our kids too and as much as we would have loved to have done it when they were younger, all the "books" say not to. :)

Sigh...on almost any *other* subject most moms will tell you A) to listen to your gut and B) all kids are different. On this one subject, however, many suddenly parrot the "experts" and promote all kinds of CIO, and usually they recommend a one-size-fits-all approach.

I think one of the major problems with "cry it out" is that people interpret that in a variety of ways, from shutting the door and walking away cold turkey to a gentler "extinction" method where you check in more often. If she's going to go this route, she should choose a method that is less of a shock to the child and stick with it.

But in the name of full disclosure, I agree with those who feel that all it teaches the child is to give up trying to communicate your needs, 'cause mama ain't comin'. It's cruel and unnecessary.

We have not done CIO and you bet, we have paid the price for it--less sleep over the short run--but we sleep a lot better knowing we haven't done that to her. We figure it we can take it for a couple of years until her biorhythms kick in better and/or we can actually explain things to her a bit, instead of leaving a tiny creature alone in a dark room to wonder why that caring parent just won't/can't come. She'll get it down eventually and in the meantime, we have a cheerful, confident, well-adjusted child.