When Do 'Normal' Tantrums Become 'Abnormal' Tantrums?

LOL. I think its normal behavior. Kids don't like going to bed. My son plays around when its time for bed. He won't get dressed and then I get the stink eye. He gets a count to 5 and if hes not dressed or attempting it, I leave the room and he has to get himself ready and put himself to bed. I don't use any of that 1/2 or 3/4 stuff either. He doesn't hate you, probably just testing his limits.

Both of my girls were worse at three than they were at two. My youngest daughter, quite honestly, is lucky we didn't sell her to a troupe of gypsies when she was three.

Yes, what he is doing is normal Three behavior. He is testing his limits, big time. Your best bet is to put him to bed, and when he gets up, don't offer any emotion or interaction, just take his hand and walk him back to bed. My little almost-gypsy daughter was so awful at this age that we finally flipped the door handle around so it locked on the outside. She knew this, and we'd tell her that if she got out of bed, we'd lock the door. Sure as anything, she'd get out of bed in a high snit over something (demanding a new flavor of toothpaste, telling us her room was infested with grasshoppers - yes, she used the word "infested" - wailing because her sneakers needed to be washed... it just went on and on). Anyhow, we'd go put her back in bed and then lock the door to her room until she fell asleep. Some nights she'd stay in bed, others she'd hurl herself against the door howling and throwing things. No matter what insanity she dished out, we just tried to plod along and do the same thing every time. ALSO - it can really help to put 3 year olds into bed early (like, before 7pm). This way they are in bed before they're exhausted.

I am pleased to say, however, that the near gypsy will be 5 next month and seems to have turned the corner. She's still "challenging" but she can be reasoned with. Most of the time. Thank god.

My daughter has Asperger's, and she had quite the tantrums. Your son's tantrums do not sound abnormal to me. If he's fine any other time, the tantrums are being caused because 1) he's overtired, 2) he's successfully delaying bedtime with this behavior, or 3) both 1 and 2!

Everyone else has already posted great advice. You might want to get him to bed sooner, have a routine, then don't give in. The more attention you give to his tantrums, the more he'll tantrum!

Good luck!

C.
www.littlebitquirky.blogspot.com

I have a 3 year old daughter with an attitude a mile wide. I swear, terrible twos had NOTHING on the terrible threes! My 3 year old is my first, so this is unchartered territory for me too. Every single thing from getting dressed to going to bed is a struggle. The temper tantrums are EPIC, to the point where my neighbors called me the other day to see if everything was ok. Thank goodness they are parents themselves and understand, but boy was I embarrassed!
We tend to follow a lot of Super Nanny's advice. The first time he gets up you take him back to bed and say "It's bed time, sweetie" give him a kiss and walk out. The next time you say in a firmer voice "It's bedtime" and walk away. The third time, and any time after that, you pick him up and stick him back in to bed with out saying a word. The key is consistency. The technique sometimes takes awhile to work, but it does work.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't hate you and that his behavior is "normal" or as normal as it can be at this age. It sounds like he knows that he has you and your husbands undivided attention while he's throwing these fits.
Good luck! People keep telling me it's a phase and it will pass. I can only say that I sure hope so!

If it were a deeper problem, you'd be having this trouble all day long rather than just at bed time. So there's hope - he'll out grow it eventually.
He sounds a little like he's over tired. When is his last nap of the day? Maybe if it comes a little later he won't be so fighting being sleepy at bedtime. 3 is a tough age. Their imaginations are going full tilt day and night, and nightmares and fears of monsters, darkness, sounds, etc are typical. My son loved his night light, and we played music as he fell asleep. But sometimes he'd wake up in the night and want to be with us. Eventually he figured out if he woke us up, we'd take him back to his own bed. So he didn't wake us up. He'd just come to our room and tuck himself in at the foot of our bed. As he got older, he could express himself better. Sometimes if we had a bad night, I'd ask him next day after breakfast what happened - "What was all that fuss about last night? And how can we not do that again?". It's easier to talk things through when you're not going through it at the moment. Ask him for ideas about how he can make friends with his room so it's a place he likes to stay in. My son loved having some input when we moved the furniture around. My son's bed is a 4 poster bed, and we sometimes would take a king size bedspread, put it over the top (we used bungee cords to secure it so it wouldn't collapse) and make a bed-tent-fort. It was great reading stories in there using flashlights.

Hi J.-

I have been working with children for 16+ years, and I find 3-4 the hardest age groups! Many parents say the same as you, he was wonderful at 2 why is he falling apart at 3!?!

Three year olds like to test boundaries and limits. They like to be in control, but also need to be controled. The key to three year olds, is to enforce boundaries, create limits and most importantly, be consistent.

I tell parents who I coach that rules and boundaries are like blankets for children, it makes them feel safe.

As for your issue, First, make bedtime rules and post them. Then together talk about the rules. You can use a reward chart to reinforce the rules, (reward charts only help for 2-3 weeks FYI).

I also suggest once you leave the room after kisses, it's no longer talk time. Everytime he comes out of his room, you say, "I love you, it's bedtime, we'll have fun tomorrow, go back to bed." and escort him back to bed. No matter how many times he comes out, just say the same in an emotionless voice.

Good luck, just remember, consistence!

R. Magby

i have lots of ideas, since we've been there too!

we made a bedtime cd, with a brush your teeth song, pajama song, prayer and lullabies. it really helped with bed time meltdowns and helped solidify the routine.

talk about bedtime during the day. tell him what you will do, and when the last thing is that you will do for him. (either a certain time-- we say 8:00-- or a certain thing-- like bedtime story is the last thing, then no more attention/help from mom or dad because it's time to sleep)

we have recently started doing bedtime chats. we go in for 10-15 minutes and just ask them "what do you want to chat about?" and it really has helped our relationships to be more loving and trusting. we both enjoy having time to talk. by the end of the chat they are usually wound down and ready to fall asleep. it's alot easier to fall asleep when you feel loved, than when you feel punished.

one more thing-- my son really likes to listen to stories on CD. you might try that.

good luck. we have had tantrums from my son that were as dramatic as you are describing, although my 3 year old daughter is almost four and has never been that bad. i guess it's a personality thing.

He doesn't hate you! I promise!

A few things came to mind....is he really, really, REALLY tired by bedtime? I know when my son was too, too tired, bedtime was a powder keg! If you think he's too tired, try getting ready for bed earlier.

Is your bedtime routine consistent every night? That's important.

Does he have any sensory issue? Like clothing being scratchy, socks being wrinkled, strong reactions to loud noises? If so he might have some sensory issues and OT can really help.

And I'll bet you thought you could finally exhale since the terrible Twos were over, huh? ;-) I found three to be way worse than tow! Hang tough.

First he doesn't hate you. If your biggest trouble time is bed time i don't think there is some deeper problem he just wants what he wants and not to be mean sounding or anything but because it sounds like you sometimes give in he knows he can get it if the tantrum is big enough or last long enough. That being said you are the parent it is not ok to kick and scream at mom and dad. Yes most toddlers go through tantrums some worse than other, but being consistant with them is one major thing that helps them stop. Does your son still take a nap during the day? My daughter had to stop naps very early on in her little life or it was almost impossible to get her to go to bed at night. No tantrums she just wasn't tired so she would get out of bed a lot. We took out the nap started going for a walk around the block at night and then bath and bed. The routine and lack of a nap really worked for her and us for that matter. I know you said you tried to put him to put him back in bed with saying nothing but did you stick with it for more than a night or even a few times of him getting out of bed? I would try the routine and take out the nap if you give him one so he will be good and tired then when it time for bed make sure he hads the pj's he wants whatever his needs are for night time have him lay down try to read a short book and then tell him, "It's time for bed and mommy and daddy want you to stay in bed." Kiss him say good night and go out. If he comes out pick up and take him back tell hiim nicly its bed time and go out again. If he then comes out again after that you say NOTHING, no matter how may more times he does it. Continue doing that until he goes to sleep. It might take a few days to a week but soon he will see you mean business and no matter what he does you aren't going to give in...consistance is SO important. You and your husband both have to do it the same way and not give in. If you change it once he will see it as his wimdow. kids are SO smart and will do anything to get their way. Stick together no matter what you decide to do or try and good luck. Hang in there you'll get through it.

.

J.,

Since you see tantrums for bed time, but not other times of day, you probably have a child who really does not like bed time! You would be describing sensory, communication, and social issues too if it was likely you had something to worry about.

If he has been successful at "barganing" that may be your answer for why he continues the behavior. It may take a while to undo, but I would stop barganing and walk away right at bed time, and let it him work it out on his own. Unless the changing bed clothes is something he does all day long for sensory reasons, this is just a barganing chip and I would not cater to it.

It would be pretty out of the ordinary for a child with autistic meltdowns to only have them at bedtime, as frustration issues are more global and may be predictable by the sensory enviornment, but are typically not only related to one time of day. It would be more unusual for a child in an autistic melt down to have the communication skills to bargan during and the wherewithall to use changing socks, or PJ's or music as a delay tactic of the thing that was frustrating them. Melt downs for autistic kids are generaly out of control, are sensory relatated, happen in most environments, and make the child miserable beyond soothing. At some point in an a autistic melt down, it becomes all about the melt down, and has nothing to do with the reason it started.

My guess would be, from what you describe, that if you were to let him get out of his room and not go to bed, that his tantrum would end. Try this. Offer a glass of water in the kitchen durring a tantrum, and see if he is able to turn it off. If he can, you probably have a very smart little boy who is trying to keep from going to bed (for what ever reason.) I would walk him back to his room, shut the door, and wait it out. Your deeper meaning may be nothing more than his determination to continue the bargan, and his hope that it will work.

M.

I know this is going to sound silly to you..and probably to a lot of other people...have you tried...during the day...when things are nice and calm and everyone is in a good mood...ASKING him why he doesn't like to go to bed and go to sleep??? Maybe it would give you a clue as to how to handle this. There is obviously something going on in that sweet little 3 year old mind of his!! I have a 27 month old grandson and you would be surprised at how verbal he can be at describing his emotions and what is bothering him about any particular situation. Our job as parents is to help our children learn to deal with their emotions whether they are positive or negative ones. My daughter and her husband always start out by acknowledging their son's feelings " I understand that you are feeling scared right now what can Momma do to help?"I am not saying to do this at night, in the middle of the melt down....that would just be playing into his hands...but think of it from HIS perspective!!
That being said...I can still remember,years ago, when our 2nd daughter would NOT stay in bed....she wandered the house all night long, looking for a bed that she could crawl into so she wouldnt have to sleep alone. After weeks and weeks of this....she overheard me discussing with her Daddy that we might "tie her door shut"...with a length of clothesline....do you know she stayed in bed from that night on??? lol. You just never know what is finally going to be the magic key!!!
Good luck

These night time temper tantrums are normal. My daughter used to have them when she was 3 and they were always before bed time. My daugther does not like to sleep or go to bed. Bed time was always a terrible fight and very stressful for the whole family. When she got up from her bed and came in our room we would take her back and keep doing that over and over again. When she started screaming, we would make sure that she couldn't hurt herself and let her scream. Sometimes if would last for hours. I got so stressed about it and I was positive that there was something wrong with her so I talked to a child psychologist. She told me to spend about 15 to 20 minutes of quality time playing with her and then follow a strict bed time routine. She said that the routine and an early bed time were very important. We followed her advice and it seemed to get better and then my daugther eventually out grew the screaming tantrums. She is 4 1/2 now and she still hates to go to bed but its more complaining and a little crying and not the horrible kicking and screaming tantrums that it once was.

Sometimes when my son was in this phase, I would kiss him on the top of his head and say that I was tired and was going to bed.

Being sure he was in a spot where he couldn't get into trouble, I just left him. He would get some toys, bring them to the foot of our bed, play quietly for less than 10 minutes and then decide he was tired and then went to bed. All on his own!

I just didn't make it a battle and he got himself to bed way faster than I ever could.

Also tell yourself over and over "It's not personal. It's not personal. It's not personal." Your son does NOT hate you and is only thinking about how much he doesn't want to go to bed.

You could try giving him about 20 minutes of focused attention and play before starting the bedtime routine. You also could try making a night routine book (taking pictures of him at each step) and then of him sleeping in bed all night. And talk about it in simple sentences while you're making it and afterwards. He now has a visual reminder and has taken part in creating the routine.

My sympathy for your nightime traumas! It can be SO rough at spots.

I haven't read other responses. My first reaction is to suggest that you put him to bed, when he gets up put him back in bed, etc. without talking after the first time in. Remain calm and consistent, Do only this for several nights.

Do not get side lined by his temper tantrum. Once he starts a tantrum, leave the room and perhaps shut the door. Most definitely do not pay any attention to him. Never respond to a change, a drink, or any other bid for attention.

I suspect he's found that this is a way for him to continue keeping you involved with him. If you've responded by letting him have what he wants even just a couple of times, he has to continue doing this in hopes that you'll give in again. It's extremely important to decide on a plan of action and keep to it.

I would never bargain or even punish. My feeling is that a matter of fact, it is bedtime and you will remain in your room is what is required. The consequence is that you continue to put him back in bed or back in his room.

If this doesn't help the situation after a week or so, I'd consider that there may be an issue underlying it. But if he's "normal" in all other ways and his extreme tantrums mostly occur at bedtime I suggest that the cause is a need for a simple and consistent response from you and your husband.

Your son can sense your uncertainty about whether or not this is normal. You have to present a calm, confident approach as a couple even if you don't feel that way.

My grandson had tantrums at that age that were influenced by the underlying meaning of his not being able to speak so that others could understand him. He was diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder and recently with ADHD. The ODD decreased dramatically when his mother learned more consistent ways of managing him. He also has symptoms of being somewhere in the autistic spectrum. If your son is "normal" in other ways the temper tantrums are most likely also "normal" and are his attempt to find where his boundary concerning bed time lies.

Talk with him earlier in the day and tell him what you plan to do. Tell him his tantrums are not acceptable and that you are going to ignore him when he is being disrespectful and/or having a tantrum. Tell him you are going to leave the room but that you'll be nearby. Tell him that if he leaves his room, you will put him back into the room and shut the door. Tell him what the consequences will be, whether they are the ones I suggest or others. Then follow thru. He will test them and it sounds like he may escalate his behavior even more. I see his extreme tantrum as an escalation most likely because you haven't been able to be consistent with one technique for a week or more.

Both of my grandchildren had tantrums but not of this magnitude. For them, they calmed down easier if I stayed in the room but away from them and completely ignored them. I usually sat on the floor with my back against the wall and looked at a magazine or stared off into space with a ho hum attitude.

However, you may not want to stay in the room with him because it's likely that being with him causes him to continue to work at getting your attention. I'd try leaving the door open and a light on, either in the hall or a night light so that he doesn't feel abandoned. It's very important to not interact with him, whatever you do. If necessary shut the door. Or you could try a gate.

What time are you putting him to bed? Could he be overly tired? I'm assuming that you have a consistent bed time routine that helps him to wind down before he actually has to get into bed. My daughter had difficulty for awhile when her children were preschoolers in that she would tell them to get their pjs on and then tell them to go to bed without actually being involved with them. Kids need a routine with their parents so that they will know what to expect and have soothing time with a parent. Some kids need more of a definite routine than others but all need some sort of routine.