What's Your Opinion or Knowledge?

I hate to use this analogy but kids are a lot like dogs, they know who the alphas are. I have watched some holy terrors who were angels for me. Same thing happens in school if the teacher can establish that the behavior won't be tolerated.

Now my younger son is PDD is temper was not born of defiance it is just bad wiring. In that case all you can do is redirect which is what it sounds like they are doing.

You might want an eval just to see if there aren't any spectrum disorders kicking around.

Hmmmm, well often times kids behave VERY differently when mom/dad are not around.

But without more specifics, it is reasonable to expect his behavior to be the same once he's in school.

:)

C., go back and look at all the posts you've written about this child. People have given you their opinions. What else do you want? Tirades about your dysfunctional family does nothing but make you feel better. Is that what this is about? Either call social services, tell your sister that you will take this child under your wing, or leave it alone.

C.:

Not enough information to answer the question.

From the little information you have given -

1. The child doesn't know how to behave in public because the parents don't have control over their child. They think teaching them will hurt his self-esteem.

2. Unruly because the parents want to be friends instead of parents. Let the kid have his way.

Will his behavior change in kindergarten? No. Most likely not. It might change with peer pressure. Or he will be labeled difficult and then put in a special ed class. If a health issue - autism, etc. has not been diagnosed and the child continues in a bad pattern - the school will intervene - get the diagnosis and, in essence, force the parent(s) to deal with their child - maybe even giving them parenting classes so they know how to control or deal with their child.

IF the parents have neglected to get their child tested - that's neglect. If it's not a health issue - it's neglect on the part of the parent.

Uhm... yeah, IT IS BAD PARENTING! Kids don't raise themselves, kids don't make proper decision on their own. The parents should be guiding this child and being constructive in the raising, behavior and social situations he is encountering.
NO PARENTING = BAD PARENTING

Why would the behavior change suddenly? Is the issue bad parenting or developmental? Neither one is a quick fix.

EDIT from your edit - Unless there is some way you can step in or get professional help for the family, CPS, whatever, the child is screwed and it's the parents' fault. If you are willing to deal with the craziness and could "foster" him, and be a REAL parent, that could help, cause he needs REAL parents.

There were times when my son was between the ages of 18 months to 2.5 that he just wanted to touch everything and wouldn't always listen to directions, so I refrained taking him to some places. (mostly places like storytime at the library or other venues that required my son to sit and be quiet for long periods of time.) However, we constantly worked on the problem by role playing and modeling what good behavior looked like. We often asked friends to come to our house and only sometimes went to their homes when I thought my son could handle it. My son has always been full of energy, so I tried to find activities that encouraged that kind of behavior like Gymboree, PE 101 and music classes. Parents stay at all of these activities to stay near their child and help them interact positively with the other children. My son is now 4 years old and attends preschool. He is quite empathetic and plays well with other kids. His listening is obviously better because it is partly a developmental skill, but as parents we must model what is expected and socially acceptable in society.
To answer your question, I do not think keeping him out of the public alone will make him behave. I think this is setting him up to fail even more if he hasn't had the opportunity to interact with others appropriately.
HTH,
A.

Lack of parenting is bad parenting.

Typically, though, these kids do fine in school after a month or two of structure, predictability and routine. In fact, these are the kiddos whose parents would call me (when I was working as a school psych) and demand that I test their child for ADHD because he's out-of-control at home. I would talk with the teacher and the common response was "He's fine. The first month was rough and we have a few tough days after long breaks, but in general he's a great kid.".

Guess where the problem lies? Not with the child's ability to control his or her behavior, but with the parents' ability to provide structure and routine. Kids thrive on it.

The teacher will likely have had at least one or two of these kiddos in his/her teaching past, so see what the first few months are like!

**I have a niece who is an ANGEL in school and at my house or my MIL's house because she knows the limits and that there are consequences for her behavior- yes, even in my home she gets consequences. At her own home... Oh god. It got to a point where none of us wanted to go over there because it was unpleasant and her behavior ruined EVERY family event. Her report cards? Glowing. I suggested (gently b/c when I'm "off the clock" I try not to be a pshrink), that my SIL talk with the teacher and see what was going on. The teacher point-blank told my SIL and BIL that they needed to set and keep limits with my niece. She's good in school because that is the expectation. Poor behavior is not accepted.

I think this child needs to be evaluated for any underlying reasons and given the opportunity to get help (SPD, Autism, ADHD, etc). If this child is typical with no ouside issues then I pray for their teacher because it's the parent that is allowing this to happen at home. Now, some children, with proper structure can do a 180 but this child will be so confused between school/home I pray for this stuation.

Added - This situation needs to be reported, not just observed and commented on.

I do not think it would just halt going into pre-K. My son is a challenge - there is anxiety and control issues that manifest into unruley or defiant behavior. He has been in therapy in and out of school since he was 2 and we work with him at home.....we still have problems but we manage much better. So, I don't think there is just a switch that will turn itself over.

School doesn't magically change unruly behavior, but I think you could reasonably expect one of two outcomes. The first and most likely: the child will continue the behavior that causes his family not to take him public. In which case, the family will be hearing from the teacher and school repeatedly. They are in for a long, hard road with this one.

Scenario two: With the right teachers, this child will get the structure at school that he is lacking in his home environment. He may respond positively to it because he's been craving it, and he may respect the teacher(s) who care enough to keep structure in the school environment. He will, in this case, be one kind of kid at school and another at home. But since he isn't even taken out in public, I seriously doubt this is the outcome that will be seen.

Not enough info.

First thing to consider - is there a medical reason for the misbehavior? Can he NOT sit still? Does he have a sensory issue? Evaluation is needed to rule it out.
If something is found, steps should be taken to deal with it - therapy, nutrition, medication, etc.

If the first has been ruled out, what are the parents doing/not doing to deal with the behavior? Some parents WILL NOT DEAL with it. "Boys will be boys", "It's just natural boy stuff". These parents are kings/queens of denial and hope the kid will out grow it. It works occasionally, but not that often.

I would hope most parents would realize that some discipline and structure would help their child - in school, make friends, get along with others.
Sometimes you're at a loss how to proceed, but they should read some parenting books, and try some different approaches until they strike a balance that works for them and their child.

Edit to add, is this the little boy you spoke of in http://www.mamapedia.com/questions/17225607357262921729?

In THAT case, I think the poor kid is being sent to the wolves. His behavior is because he doesn't have a consistent home or caregiver or set of rules. On the one hand, the consistency of school might be a good thing for him. On the other, he has a lot of problems with his home life and is suffering from the fact that everyone passes him around like a hot potato. I sadly suspect that if he doesn't somehow take to school easily, he will be labeled and still not get the discipline he needs. Expecting the school to reform him is just more passing the buck.

------------------------

In general, I do not think that a child who has not been taught how to behave will magically start to behave. That applies to all aspects of the child's life. For example, if you allow your child to run around at home during meals, why be surprised if the child also runs around at a restaurant?

EVEN IF the child behaves in pre-k because the teachers don't allow his behavior (assuming said behavior doesn't get him expelled), that doesn't mean he'll also behave elsewhere with different caregivers.

Further, if the issue is something that is untreated (current research indicates that bad sleep can cause bad behavior in some children - friend's DD was asked to leave a preschool before she had her sleep apnea resolved), then there can be a dramatic difference IF the parents get the underlying issue treated.

There are a lot of variables here. If it were my child, I'd be looking for a cause (be it my parenting or a medical issue) because being so "unruly" that I can't take him out in public is huge problem. Friend's daughter is autistic and non-verbal. They still take her out in limited ways, based on her abilities to handle it. If this child was truly not going anywhere - the store, church, the playground...then something needs to be changed.

It depends on WHY he is unruley. you haven't really given us enough info.... do his parents have realistic perspective on what "unruley" is? Do they employ healthy parenting techniques? What interaction with others does the child have? What motivation does the child have to change his behavior?

People are not inherently bad. People act the way the act because of either physical or emotional stimuli.

Depends on why and in what ways he is unruly. Does his home lack discipline? Or does he have a neurological/developmental problem that manifests in uncontrolled behavior?

aaah. that is a heartbreaker. This child will surely have a rough time of it.

I echo Dawn. Do _not_ expect this child to change his behavior in pre-kindergarten. No rules at home can develop an unruly child. Behavior changes (as well as behavior habits) start in the home setting.

Hope you can decide what you _can_ do and let alone what you _can't_ do for this child.

There is one that stops into my house on a regular basis. He is great when his parents walk away. When they pop back in to pick him up he immediately begin misbehaving.

Poor baby. He is in for a rude awakening. Hopefully prek will give him some routine and structure...if they let him stay.

Not much information. I think humans need to be given opportunities to learn and make good choices and without that opportunity it might be tough depending on his problems.

I think the boy needs discipline.... I feel sorry for him and I know kids like him.