Touchy Work Issue

As a manager, had this lady come to me, I would have suggested that she get grief counseling and I would have just mentioned to you one on one that she is still struggling and to keep that in mind. I would not have made a big deal out of it and I certainly wouldn't have said the "T" word. That's silly. I'm wondering if it was the visit more than what you said.

No, I don't think you were insensitive. I understand her loss. It sucks. But she should have COME TO YOU instead of a supervisor...and really? after a year she's got to press on...life still happens.

I know it sounds cold but really, people have twins and if the mere mention of the word sends her blubbering - she needs to seek counseling to get over the grief period and move on to the next stage.

The "T" word is not a taboo word and it shouldn't be in the office. You should be allowed to be happy for the other family that welcomed twins. She lost her baby and I'm TRULY SORRY for it. However, she still has her son. She needs to focus on what she has instead of what she lost and move on with her life.

No I don't think you were. I mean do you have to be the same way if someone has a girl? Can you not say the G word? I would have been taken just as aback as you would have, especially if he made it seem like you did something wrong. It sounds to me like she might need some sort of counseling to get through her grief, especially if it has been a year and just the word twins sends her over the edge.

I think the cruelest thing that happens when you lose any loved one, is the world just keeps on spinning and life goes on all around you even when your world is crashing at your feet. Rest of the world cant be expected to stop or sneak in silence because something terrible happend to another person. Certainly a time of thoughtfulness and gentleness should be had, but after a while we need to get back to our everyday lives and not be so worried about offending or hurting anothers feelings. How is the M. with the new set of twins supposed to act? "Oh gee I feel so bad I had twins cause "Suzy" lost her daughter. Wish I hadnt had mine." If we took that attitude we would never be able to enjoy what good thing that do happen, anywhere. In every office, store or business there is probably someone who has suffered a loss, and we cant all tip toe around in fear of hurting someones feelings if we act joyous about a happy event in our own life. I say you did nothing wrong and your boss shouldnt have even mentioned it.

My son passed away at 17 days old. Two of my cousins gave birth to healthy baby boys at the same time. I can tell you, I was never anything but happy for them. To hear the loss of another child would have been too much for me to bear and I actually prayed for their well being. I know we all grieve differently but this woman sounds like she may need professional help. I don't think you did anything wrong. I also think the woman should have spoken to you instead of a supervisor about the use of the "T" word. If I were you I would talk to her about it and apologize for upsetting her because although it was certainly not you intention to upset her, you did. I also think she owes you an apology for going to the supervisor. You may or may not get that but I personally always try to take the high road:).

I don't think you were insensitive and no one should have to not speak of other twins or babies. Time has passed and I am sure she will never get over losing her child. But life goes on for her and everyone else around her. She needs to accept that (maybe she already has) and so do your co-workers.

I think it's wise to be sensitive around this woman, but I also think she needs to understand that people slip up. It's not just you, it's everyone in the world, anyone at anytime could say 'twins'; she needs to seek counseling to desensitize herself to that word. Back to you, as long as you TRY to curb the word around her, I really don't see what else you or anyone else in your workplace can do. It's a terrible loss, but in the same token, it's going to be unavoidable for her in the future, and she doesn't seem like she's properly managed her obvious grief.

I lost my mom back in '98. But I cannot forget about mother's day just because I can't celebrate it with my mother. I hurt for about 6 or 7 years when the anniversary of her death came about. The best thing I did for my self was to have read an Ann Landers article about someone that lost her mom and hadn't done nice things for her and hadn't told her she loved her mom. So I lived the rest of my life doing for my mom and dad like they were going to die next month. I do the same for my wife. I miss my mom and dad, but I took every opportunity to tell them I loved them and do things for them. I'm sure the lady that lost one of her twins feels she could have done something to have saved her daughter. Caroline Kennedy lost a child to SIDS and she had all kinds of money and servants. That tells me there is practically nothing you can do.

I feel for the lady's loss.

I would advise you ask for another booth/cubicle. That way you won't have to feel like you are walking on egg shells.

Good luck to you and yours.

I am surprised (negatively) from the other mamas' answers. I agree you are not at fault but in the end, what does it cost to just be a bit more careful, perhaps just a little bit longer than needed? Is it really just so difficult and does it really require all of those explanations? Just my humble opinion.

When you lose a child, born or unborn, the emotional pain is staggering. It sounds as though your co-worker has received much love and support throughout her grief and loss.

For you, it sounds as though it's gotten to the point of being uncomfortable to work near her, as though you have to tiptoe. And you shouldn't have to. You've been respectful and kind, yet life goes on. Someone else's babies, can and should be able to be welcomed, without anyone having to feel guilty about it.

Your supervisor, extraordinarily caring, needs to refer her to your employee assistance program. She needs counseling, perhaps a grief group, and help to deal with her loss and begin to move on. Especially for the sake of the surviving twin.

You're very sweet and kind to look for ways to help the situation. [hugs]

It's really not a work related issue. It's just a sensitivity issue. Any of us could make the mistake of saying twins in front of her. In all honestly, yes, it's time for her to move on to the point of letting people around her know that she isn't made of spun sugar and she should be taking back the rest of her work load. But the supervisor, obviously, just really cares for the woman. That's great. It's always nice to have a supervisor that cares.

Although I feel horrible for this woman, the world does keep going. I don't think your supervisor handled it well at all.

Those who loose never really get over it especially something as special as a child etc. You do learn to live with it and the emotions can be less. She will be feeling this loss at every holiday for a few years now as everyone is celebrating. And sids there has to be some guilt. I would request a move of cubicals. You are not close to her so you cannot comprehend and you will feel stifled in with your close friends. Just dont say twins t word or anything in your cubicle.

NO you are not doing ANYTHING wrong! Good heavens the loss of a child, any child can be overwhelming at best, but, life does go on... for others to not be able to be happy over their children & for you not to share in their joy is ridiculous. We ALL have personal issues that we must leave @ home, sick children, financial woes, deaths in our family, elder care, child care, etc. the list just goes on & on. I think the supervisor was simply concerned & took things a little too far perhaps she is close to the woman outside of work (?). I think I might go to MY supervisor & get it all out in the open, I would document the incident as well myself, I know that sounds perhaps cold hearted but in this financial climate we all have to take care of ourselves in the job market. I don't know if you have said anything to the woman but since she is in such close proximity to you @ work I think you could simply let her know you meant no hurt when you gave your other co-worker & his 'babies' your congrats.

I REALLY don't think you or anyone else should 'walk on eggs' about your children simply because she is still grieving, she will one day want to brag about her son & it may be in the presence of someone who may have lost a son during wartime or to an accident or perhaps their son is developmentally challenged & will not be reaching those milestones that she will be so proud of, does that mean she should keep quiet when she is proud??? NO it does not.

Enough of me & my opinion...

Hope it all works out for you & of course, for her...

I don't think you did anything intentionally to hurt your coworker. Do you get the OWN Oprah's network. I just saw a show where a couple had lost one of their twins and how the mom was having a hard time getting on with her life. The man Oprah had on stage made a great revelation about why these things happen. He said that we need to stop thinking of them as personalities and consider them as the beautiful souls that they really are. They chose to come to this earth for this short time. They chose those parents to be with. They chose to only stay on this earth for a short time. Accept that their journey here was to teach us a lesson. He also said that it is unfair for us to look at the twin that survived and compare his life to the one that passed. Oh Baby 1 should be walking now too. Oh baby 1 should be starting kindergarten too. How unfair for the surviving twin to be in a shadow forever. Celebrate the survivors LIFE. Celebrate LIFE. We cannot stop living because we have LOST. We must keep going. YES it is hard Yes we loved them YES it is not fair. LIFE IS NOT FAIR!
I pray that your coworker find a way to get over this and learn to celebrate the life of the child she still has!
Good luck and GOD BLESS!
D.

It was not out of line at all. That's what she was supposed to do. I know you meant no harm and don't feel it is work related. But you inadvertantly upset a co-worker and affected the office productivity, as well. Corporations do sensitivity training now for just these type situations.

My mom died 4 yrs ago. I still get chocked up when people tell stories about thier relationship with thier mom. Mothers Day is a 2 week depressive episode for me. I don't want them to stop talking about thier moms, but sometimes I have to leave the room. There is no reasonable amount of time where you will no longer be sensitive about the loss of your children. If it had been a yr since I lost my baby and someone came in the office with a baby, I don't know how I would feel. I've never been inthat situation, Thank God. I hope none of us ever have to find out.

I think you were not out of line, but your supervisor was. Just my opinion. I'm sure that you meant no harm. It wasn't like you got up in the woman's face and said, "hey, my FRIEND from my old department just had TWINS. She still has BOTH of hers. Aren't you JEALOUS?"... or something wacked out like that. You made a plain truthful statement that was not swayed one iota by the woman's personal experience.

Yes, it obviously upset the woman. And yes, rightfully (she did lose one of her twins and will never "get over" that loss). However, her feelings should have no correlation to YOU. She will encounter people the rest of her life that have healthy babies and some of them might even be twins. This is something that SHE is going to have to deal with. She may need counseling to get through it. She may need more time to learn to accept it and how to respond (or how NOT to respond) in public when she is confronted with something that makes her uncomfortable or sad. But those are HER issues, not yours, or anyone else's.
Now, I know that sounds harsh. But that is the reality. If she isn't able to function outside of a cocoon where no one speaks "the T word" then perhaps she should do something about that. Whether that is counseling, or taking more time off or whatever, I can't say, and neither can anyone else. But it is HER responsibility to make the changes she needs to make if she wants to avoid hearing certain things or learn to deal with/manage her emotions if she does. No one else's.
I, like you, understand her very real emotions, and that NO ONE EVER "gets over" the loss of a child, and having her son probably is a constant reminder to her also. So is her SON going to feel guilty his entire life b/c his mother makes him feel guilty about the loss of his sister? That is just unhealthy. It's been a year. It appears that she needs to take more pro-active steps to deal with her pain. Having a supervisor speak to officemates about their 'insensitive' language is not the way to deal with it. It's a way to avoid it completely. And it isn't fair.

However, I think it is probably more likely that she didn't "go to" her supervisor and ask they speak to you. She probably was upset, and needed some time (either to leave work, or be excused for 30 minutes to compose herself or something) and spoke to her supervisor to get approval for that time. Then the supervisor asked why and she explained. I doubt she went to higher ups and said "Amanda said ___ can you make her stop?" So the problem for YOU would be the supervisor's reaction, which is what you stated in your post. That your supervisor was out of line "correcting" you for saying "the T word". And I agree with that. They shouldn't have said anything to you.
As far as what to do, I'm not sure. It may never come up again in the future (supervisor may realize it was inappropriate to "correct" you or realize they can't enforce anything anyway). If you bring it back up to them, you make force an issue where there otherwise wouldn't be one (for management anyway). So as far as advice, I'm not sure what I would recommend.

I certainly would not "take it out" on the poor woman who lost her daughter, though. Cold shoulder, or other unspoken ways. I doubt it was her fault. I think it was purely management being "overprotective" of this lady, and they were out of line.
If you did want to press the issue, go ask your supervisor, in a nice concerned sort of way, being that you ARE concerned, what would the consequences be if you DID happen to mention the "T word" in a conversation, or she overhears you on the phone with someone and it is said, or you say the "baby girl" word or whatever.

I understand where you are coming from. While you should be able to say it obviously this co worker hasn't gotten to the point where she can deal with it yet. Really it's just going on a year...I don't think there is a timeline on grief. It's not like it's been 5 years. At this time give grace and be supportive.

The situation is uncomfortable all around. The manager may not know the best way to handle it, but he was trying to be sensitive to her. She may need grief counseling, and he may be able to suggest this, but that's a separate issue. We can't deny others their joy (the twin parents), but we can be sensitive to others pain - it's just never easy.

Yep, you're being too sensitive to the manager's comments, and not sensitive enough to the level of pain this woman's experiencing.

To be blunt, you really don't have any idea of how much pain she's in. You refer to it not being "immediately" after the loss - it hasn't been a year yet, and it was a surprise death. Every mother I know of has a fear of SIDS, and I don't know how long it would take me to get over the death of my child, let alone after it happened suddenly and without warning.

I don't know if it would be helpful to be an ear for her if she wants to talk about her child. I've heard that part of the problem with grief is not being able to talk to others about your loss because people don't want to cause more pain, but the denial of it actually makes it worse.

I hope it gets easier for everyone.

Can you approach your HR department about the situation? Just as a heads-up?

You were not out of line mentioning the word twins as you were stepping away to go see new twins. If you just sat there and randomly talked about twins or her twins or her loss, then that would be insensitive.

You are wondering, like I would, what the repercussions would be the next time you mentioned something along those lines... that's why I would approach HR. I think they need to get involved with this woman's situation at this point. If after a year she can't be in public and hear the word or see twins without breaking down, then I think that would be a disruption to the work environment. Also, she's STILL on adjusted work after a year? That seems a bit excessive to me, though I think I would feel good working for a company that is willing to provide that...

She sounds like she needs professional help, like yesterday. To not be able to hear about someone else having a baby almost a year after you lost yours, that is not healthy and you work is doing her no favors by treating her as they are.

I could understand when she first came back but at this point enough already.

Does she run up to random strangers at the grocery store and tell them the existence of their new baby upsets her. Is she going to start screaming at everyone with living children come January? Do you see how her not getting help but totally enabling behavior is going to blow up at some point? She can live in a bubble at work or home but eventually this is going to end badly.

I don't think what you said was insensitive. Another co-worker had twins. That is a fact, not a throw off to her lost child. Maybe you could have said "babies", but would she relate that to "twins" also? Seems like this woman is still emotionally fragile and needs more or further counseling to help cope with her tremendous loss. Will she ever fully be "over" the death of her baby? Probably not, and that is ok and normal, but she needs to try to not make everyone around her feel as if they will forever have to walk on eggshells when in her presence. I can't imagine what she is going through, and the pain it must be for her each and every day. However, she needs to deal with her grief and move forward, not live in the past, and be strong for her family that is still here, and be productive in her job for her own well being. Maybe I sound insensitive here, but living in constant grief is not a healthy way to be for her or anyone around her.

I think I'd request from her supervisor what exactly are you to say/not say around her so you can be more mindful of the situation. Is the T-word the only thing off limits or is there more? I think you have the right to know when you sit right next to her. Dealing with this situation and being "guarded" for close to a year makes for a stressful work environment especially if you have to always be guarded in what you can or cannot say around your co-worker.

I don't think you were being insensitive. So, what are you supposed to do the rest of the time you work with her when talking to the coworker with twins. "So, how are your two babies doing?" Or is that insensitive too.

I agree with you....its almost been a year. I also realize losing a baby would be hard! But the rest of the world doesn't need to stop because of it and this person needs to realize this. If this person needs counseling then so be it....but I think its a little ridiculous that you can't use the word twins around her. Like I said before what word will be next?

IMHO, no, you were not insensitive at all. How absurd. She's at a place of employment, not an inpatient treatment center for heaven's sake.

Your supervisor sounds weak. It's easier to cater to her than it is to point out the obvious.

All that being said I would just move on from it and not rock the boat, especially in this economy.

And I hope *I* don't sound insensitive! It's a terrible loss for her. But it's not fair to other people who have good things happen in their lives - to put a damper on things.

JMO.

To be honest, yeah, I think it was a little insensitive of you. She lost one of her twins only a year ago. And here you are mentioning the other coworker's healthy, living twins.
As for the supervisor approaching you about it, maybe that was a little overboard, but frankly, your coworker who lost her little girl, needs more support from the boss, than you do at this time. So it is good that your boss is being super sensitive to her.
Sorry just my opinion. If I lost my son, yeah, I would probably have to leave work early too, if one of my coworkers brought in their own son close in age. I would probably be sitting there all day dreading hearing/seeing him, just trying to keep to myself and avoid the situation, and then someone mentioned it to me. I mean, can you imagine how difficult that day must have been for her?

Maybe you are being overly sensitive.

I think maybe your supervisor was surprised that you weren't more thoughtful about your remark and felt like a "mom" or "dad" needing to remind you to please be more considerate in the future.

This woman's pain is obviously quite fresh, regardless of the timeline of events. You obviously can understand the depth of pain that comes from losing a child.

Personally, I can't imagine NOT immediately thinking of the woman in the next cubicle whenever I heard the word "twins" let alone speaking the words to her!

Perhaps she needs grief counseling or more counseling. I feel bad for the surviving child. To have his mom sad each time she looks at him because he reminds her of what was lost. I don't know how I would handle that. I had a miscarriage 6y ago. My heart still aches for that baby. I did have another child, that if I hadn't had the miscarriage I wouldn't of had, but that doesn't mean that I don't still miss the one child. It took me quite a while to look at baby items and such. I do think that while she may still be having a hard time with it, that the 'sensitivity' time frame of it in public should be lifted.

There ARE other people with OTHER life events in your office. Was it just as insensitive to the lady that the other worker even brought the twins in to work? Should that family not share their joy with friends because of her loss? I think the supervisor needs to be more flexible and just know that the lady may need to leave early sometimes.

Try just saying babies from now on. We have a lady at work that had a stillbirth. Its hard around the holidays because you don't want to hurt her feelings. The coworker 2 desks down, whom she can see, just had twins, and people are always bringing their kids into work.

It's hard - both for the person who has had the loss and for the people around them.
I worked with a woman whose adult child committed suicide.
She was in pain, but she felt coming back to work (keeping busy) was the best way for her to come to grips with what happened.
That didn't mean the rest of us had to stop talking about our own children.
Yes, it's true there is no time table for grieving and some people never completely come back from it.
On the other hand - life does go on for everyone else.
It sounds like the woman's supervisor was asking you to be sensitive to your co-workers pain, but at the same time I hope she spoke with the woman and said she can not completely control everything that is said in the work environment.
Seriously, you might just as well have said you needed to buy some sheets for a twin sized bed and just the word would be enough to crush her and there was absolutely no intention to cause her pain.
You should mention to your own supervisor what is going on just to keep them in the loop.
In the office where I worked, if someone had a complaint about a co-worker from another department, the correct chain of command would be
co-worker brings it up to their own supervisor,
supervisor would speak to supervisor of other department,
supervisor of other department would speak to their own personnel.
It would have been out of line for a supervisor to speak in a disciplinary fashion to someone who did not report directly to them.

Yes, I think that you are being a touch too sensitive here. I cannot imagine losing a child, and this woman is obviously not dealing with it well. Yes, she obviously needs some help to cope. You didn't do anything wrong here, but it really wouldn't hurt to be a little more attuned to her pain. For example, I had a very early miscarriage after TTC for quite some time. My coworker had a sister that managed to get pregnant immediately the first month she tried. I was dealing with infertility. It just wasn't happening for me. It just tore my heart out to see this woman's sister come by hugely pregnant. I never said anything...and I didn't have any right to...but it bothered me. Your coworker is probably doing the best she can to hold it together...and badly needs help. Sure she should be coping a bit better 1 year later, but who's to say what is going through her mind? Just be grateful that you are not walking in her shoes and try to be kind....