"That's Not the Point!"

I just think far too many people throw out the word narcissist when it could really be something else. It is very rare to find a true narcissist. I personally believe it's not something you can only "half be"...you either are or you aren't. And just because someone have one or more from the list located on the link below... doesn't make them a complete narcissist. Because, I can say yes to a few of things...i.e. I feel jealousy and set unrealistic goals for myself...the difference is that I can admit to these things.A narcissist...cannot! However, I put far too many people before I do myself. And ultamitely a narcissists is 100% only out for themselves.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality...

The point is I have not answered question...I think that "that's not the point" is said by narcissists and non-narcissists. Can't put it all in one basket!

I agree with the responder who suggested that you drop the labels. From a clinical psychology point of view, there are very few people who fit this diagnosis. Instead I suggest working to understand these individuals, instead of lumping all these people into one group.

They, of course, may be deflecting your arguments with this statement, but maybe...you really aren't getting their point. It sounds to me as if there are two people talking who both want to be right, instead of listening to understand and then coming to a conclusion.

I have an ex who could fit many diagnosis, including narcissist (the professionals settled on Bipolar Disorder II) and over the years I've decided to learn how to communicate effectively with him. It is possible.

My response would be, well then what IS the point?

J., I think that perhaps I have not known that I was dealing with a narcissist until recently. This person NEVER admits she has done anything wrong, argues incessantly, and lies to people. I have walked away from trying to deal with her because I am lucky enough to not HAVE to deal with her. I don't know how you can work for someone like this. I don't know what to tell you other than get another job. It will be interesting to see what people recommend here. I am grateful that I can let this go on MY end! But I feel for you!

Dawn

My Ex Husband was a narcissist. I don't remember that phrase being used by him. I just remember the extraordinary lengths he would go to in order to prove he was right. Changing the facts of what happened, trying to make you feel like you were the crazy one. He got to the point of being delusional and imagining all sorts of stuff. Over the years he has lost both of his daughters, 2 wives, numerous jobs and alienated himself from many friends and family members. Sad thing is he can be both the most generous and most heartless person you have ever known.

Please find me a person who isn't a narcissist and then I can answer this question.

I never tried to establish any rightness with a narcissistic boss. I've had several. It probably helped them to own companies and become hard asses. Their company, their way, they could make any point they wanted to make. I'd state my point in as much as it needed to be established in accordance with my position, but saved my ideas and theories and knowledge to share with loved ones in my life. I'd just humor the boss, personally. I loved saying things like, 'Oh, good point!" and 'Yup!' No matter how preposterous their points were. And when I did occasionally try to get too big for my britches and "know something" it was all down hill from there and the walking papers weren't far behind. Which is fine if you can find another job and you wanted to leave anyway....and yes, I've heard the phrase "That's not the point" before when it was misused. But I do tend to use that phrase on my husband, because he truly does completely miss the point a lot. :)

J., I am right there with you. And yes, I understand the clinical definitions of narcissist. My ex-husband sat in counseling with me and proved it to the therapist himself every time he opened his mouth and blamed me for all our problems. (She told me this later when she counselled me through our divorce.)

From my experience, "The point" is whatever makes them right. If it's 'not the point', that's was shorthand for "don't call me on my own sh*t" or " that's not what I meant to pontificate on" (and to appear 'right' in doing so). I could site real conversations we had when all logic flew out his window because it wasn't "the point" of what he was saying. Don't want to visit my former in-laws because his brother is a sex offender? "That's not the point. It's meant to be a family time and you have a bad attitude about it."

It's a device to place blame on others and to ensure rightness on any absolutely riduculous position they choose. When most people I know tell me that "it's not the point", I am willing to open my mind and backtrack and try to see where they're coming from. With my ex, it was "okay, I see that the conversation's pretty much over now and I'm still going to be wrong, even if God sends down a memo carved in stone telling you differently..."

Added: I'm really quite surprised at all the derisive comments about J. putting the Narcissist label out there. For those of us who do have to deal with bona-fide narcissists, it can be incredibly painful. Perhaps they are rare, but I had three of them prominently in my life: my ex-husband, my stepfather (for six years) and my own birth mother, who has Personality Disorder with tendencies toward Narcissism and who falls into a class of Borderline Personality Disorder which that is nothing short of terrifying at times. I'm not being dramatic in describing that. Please don't insult someone's experience or descriptions unless you know that they are, indeed, off base. Some of us do know, all too well, what we are talking about.

Some people will never change even if they are wrong. As I've gotten older I think the best way is to figure out how to handle people who are difficult. It keeps me entertained and less drama. I can't stand drama and confrontation. If backed into a corner I certainly stand my ground. You made a good decision to get divorced and hopefully are in a healthier place. Now with Bosses it really is a no win situation when we are subordinates. We need to make our bosses an ally unless they are doing something immoral or illegal. But I get your frustration :)

Maybe I'm a narcissist?

I say that in jest, of course. My husband has a tendency to start a discussion on one specific point, then ramble it into some other offshoot and if I say something that disagrees with his first point, he'll start arguing his second point all the more, and I'll say, "That's not the Point. I was talking about what you said to start with!" (not in a black and white right or wrong scenario though, lol)

Trying to find a little fun. Still sad thinking about Jim's pooch situation. :(

I think we all are "narcissists" at times...and it is usually an underlying feeling to want to be right or be heard.

I would try getting away from the labeling and instead look at how you can deal with these people in your life that are not going to go away.. Look to why they are saying, "that is not the point." A lot of times it comes from misunderstandings or from feeling like one is not being heard. And about the sky being blue..it isn't the point about the sky being blue if you are talking about the clouds in the sky. But if the sky is blue and they say the sky is not blue then there are bigger fish to fry with that person. Some people refuse to see truth or agree with fact and will debate you til they are blue in the face that the sky is green.

Good luck and best wishes dealing with these people in your lives.

I've found that when someone says 'that's not the point', that usually means they have no other come back, they know you're right, BUT, being a narcissist, they can't be wrong, so they deflect off your inarguable fact with a big fat 'that's not the point!'... when usually, that very well IS the point exactly!

I had an old boss who's a narcissist. The trucks needed fuel, but the drivers needed money added to their cards. Instead of giving me the permission to add funds to their fuel cards, he starts arguing the cost of fuel and asking why they were running empty, etc... totally going all the way around the issue at hand. Then he finally asked why they hadn't fueled up yet... well, because I'm waiting for your permission to add the funds to their cards. What did I get back? 'That's not the point R.'... um, they can't fuel up until I add the funds, THAT sir, is indeed the point. He just wanted to rant and rave and talk talk talk without admitting that I was right; they had not fueled up yet because I hadn't been given permission to transfer the money yet. Duh.

I absolutely do not think I am a narcissist. No question. I attribute this to the fact that I am deeply Christian and every single day, trust God and turn my life over to Him. It's harder than you think.

I really know only two people that truly fit the definition of narcissist. I have never heard either one of them use the phrase "that's not the point." However, I really don't spend much time with them and I truly don't get into any deep conversations with either one of them.

Stop arguing with them. State what is. Create boundaries. Then do what you need to do to get things accomplished. It is a delicate line to walk.

Communicate openly, clearly, and directly; however, be very careful about what your agenda/intention is when you communicate. If you are going in to a discussion with someone like this in order to convince them of your point of view, expect to be disappointed and end up in an argument. If you are simply relaying information and informing them of what is then your communication will be more successful more of the time.

Remember that communicating with a narcissist is tricky and that it needs to be all about them. It takes great skill to go into a discussion with them and come out with them thinking it was their idea however, that is how to best deal with them. Often asking them for their opinion, advice, input, etc will allow them to feel important and yet still get the issue solved. Be very careful to avoid using phrases like "you need to...", "why won't you...", and "you didn't...".

Working with a narcissist is frustrating when we expect them to behave any differently. Acknowledge that they are the way they are and make choices accordingly. Let go of the notion that they "should" be any other way. Deal directly with what is whether that is learning new forms of communication or actually leaving the relationship/job.