Taking Away Toys

One thing I did with my son was to let him leave 2 things out. He was WORKING on various projects. Putting away what he was in the middle of and had spent a lot of time setting up was hugely frustrating for him. He'd rather not play at all, than to 'waste' all the effort (like throwing away dinner after cooking it and before eating it). Even 'completed ' things, sometimes he wanted to be able to admire them for a few days. It was worth it to him to only be able to have 1 work in progress, so he could just look at the other one.

Honestly, having dealt with a VERY similar situation, 4 is too young.
I have been having this same fight for a couple of years with my 6 year old.
Only now, soon to be 7, does she seem to finally "get it".

The chores are just done when asked now, the lying and sneakiness has stopped in the past couple of months too. As well as her habit of taking things that weren't hers and hiding them in her room.

We had her narrow all of her toys down to her doll house and things that went with it, her lego sets, and ONE toy box.
We told her if she didn't clean her room one time a week and if we found things that belonged to me or her daddy in the room again,
she would have to throw away one of her remaining toys.

Not us doing it, she had to actually be the one to put it in the trash.
We had to make her do that ONE time, months ago, and since then ALL her misbehaving when it comes to cleaning up, honesty, and stealing has ALL stopped.

I don't know if it is the method, her age, or a combination.

I just know that stuff we tried when she was younger, similar things even, never worked before now.

"Clean up all of your toys" to a 4 year old, is like me telling you, "go out in the garage and totally organize it by shape and color before you go to bed." It is over whelming.

Instead it needs to be.

"Pick up all of your cars and put them in the car basket. "

"Good job! Now put all of the legos in the lego can."

"Good, job, but I spy with my little eye, 1 red lego and 2 yellow legos.."

You get the idea.. He needs to be guided.. Also make sure everything has a place to go..

If it is one big toy box, that is fine..
But if you have containers for each grouping of toys, sometimes, that will give him some direction.

And yes, you will have to do this every time, till he is a bit older. That is why in daycare, they do this exact same technique every day.

Too many toys out at a time makes some younger kids get overwhelmed at the mess when it is time to clean up. Try narrowing it down and only letting him play with one kind of toy at a time. For example, let him have box of legos. When he puts those back in the box, he can have the matchbox cars. When those are cleaned up, he can have the action figures, etc. If he ususally plays with a box of 20 cars and can't seem to clean them up afterwards, the next time, he only gets half that amount, until he demonstrates he can handle the clean up time nicely.

My kids went to preschool three mornings a week so I took my cue from them.
I figured whatever they were capable of at preschool they could and should do at home. Clean up was expected (and achieved) there so why not at home?
Honestly if your son doesn't seem to care about the missing toys then good, you're better off without them. I hate having too much stuff, maybe your son is the same way.
Let him focus on playing outside, digging in the dirt, collecting bugs, that sort of thing. Toys are nice but they certainly aren't necessary, especially if they become something of a burden to your child. Get rid of them and bid them good riddance! I imagine that will make it easier for all of you :)

Never, never, never tell him something that you guys don't plan to do. He'll never take you seriously if you do.

You need to give him guidelines. And you need to not have so many toys out at one time. Tell him that obviously he didn't understand that his sister does not have to help him pick up his toys. His sister has to pick up her own toys. Tell him that you are going to start over and here are the rules. Then list the rules. Tell him that he cannot expect his tractor to clean up the toys if the tractor is gone. In fact, NO toy can be expected to clean up if it's not there. Tell him that he will lose toys twice as fast if he refuses again.

Tell him that this is the last time that you will start over. Now he knows the rules. And tell your husband if he screws this up and threatens that all the toys are going to be gone for good, you will give all the toys to Goodwill and he will have to go purchase all new toys at Toys R Us for a small fortune.

This child is a 4 year old - not a 24 year old. You do this to TEACH, not to punish. Without teaching and showing consequences that make SENSE, your son will not learn anything. Without being 100% consistent, you'll actually be teaching him that he can push the envelope with you and see what happens next, because what will happen next will be so up-in-the-air.

The biggest thing that you and your husband need to understand is that children have to be taught over and over! Just because you said he had to earn back his toys, and he did, doesn't mean that he isn't going to make the same mistake again. He'll make these mistakes over and over again until he matures some more. Then he'll make different mistakes.

He's not too upset about this now because, like you said, he doesn't get it. He doesn't get it because he isn't mature enough yet! So accept that you have to just keep with it. Don't ever let him win the game of not helping to clean up. You take his toy(s) when he says no, and then tell him he has to clean up. If he still says no, take more toys. Just keep taking the toys until he complies. Don't take the ones that he needs to put up. Take the toys he likes that he doesn't happen to be playing with. Then he won't give up his toys in order to not clean up!

You really do need to remember that you never threaten something that you don't absolutely mean. And you do what you threaten. And you don't threaten stuff that isn't appropriate. Especially for your child's age and maturity.

Dawn

At 4?
Seriously?
Holy over-react, Batman.

Read Laurie A.'s VERY GOOD advice again about how to TEACH & GUIDE and (gasp!) HELP a child learn how to clean up!

I agree wholeheartedly with Laurie A. My son is six and most days he cleans up just fine on his own. But we still have a rogue day here and there where he needs some guidance with the chore to get him through it.

When he was four we did go through the same thing you are talking about. He just flat our refused to clean up, no matter what we seemed to try. So we changed a few things.

I checked on him more frequently. We took breaks and picked up throughout the day.

We didn't move on until the room was picked up. "Sure you can watch Curious George. It comes on in five minutes. Get all the cars in this box first!"

Sometimes our guidance consisted of picking up small portions of the mess at a time. Ok. Pick up five toys before lunch. Then after lunch I'd ask him to pick up two toys. Etc.

Sometimes "projects" were allowed to be left out.

Put the really messy toys out of reach. With my son, he can play cars all day long. But once the hot wheels tracks come out, it's game over. There are tracks everywhere. Pieces get lost under the couch. It's a pain. So the hotwheels tracks are kept at the top of the closet and he has to ask for them. I get a chance to remind him what is expected at clean up. And since they are out of sight, he often "forgets" they are there. When he was four, the legos had to be put up high or I'd find them everywhere!

Limit where he can play. My kids can play in their room all day and one area of our living room. Certain activities like playdough and painting are only allowing in the dining area. Containing where they can play also contains the mess a bit.

We clean up and pick up toys when my hubby calls and says he is coming home from work. After dinner, very few toys come out. It helps a lot not adding the pick up stress to the end of the day.

And NEVER make a threat you can't live with, it is setting yourself up for failure. Instead of saying you'll toss the toys. How about "toy timeout". This is what happens in our house. If they toys don't get picked up in a reasonable time. They go in time out. On top of the fridge for all to see. Not hidden away in a bag to be forgotten. They get them back after a week. Keeping them on the fridge is a constant reminder and when they ask, you can remind your child over and over that's what happens when toys don't get picked up promptly. NOW...here's the trick. The first few times, you can pick up the time out toys. Then your son will need too. We just added time if our children refused. Otherwise, it may be like our daughter. "It's ok mommy. I don't want to pick up, just put them in time out." So nip that in the bud before he thinks of it on his own.

I agree with Laurie A. Guide as he goes. Also, I never allow my 6yo son's room to get too overwhelming. Each morning before I make the bed, he has to pick up the few items that have been left out. Also, we don't have a lot of toys in his room. He has a mess of toys in a corner of our yard that at this time of the year is a mud pit--those are outside toys. He has bins in his room that contain cars, dinos, puzzles, etc. He has a basket in the living room that he can toss whatever(kind of like the junk drawer). All of his books are on the bookshelf in the living room and his legos are in bins on the shelf in the living room. When he plays with one thing in the living room (while I'm home) he has to put it away before taking out something else. Of course when I go out and leave him alone with daddy, I swear every toy he has is strewn from the front yard to the back with stuff in between, but I let that go cause he's been having a blast with dad. And guess what? They have to clean it up together. Really the trick is if he has too much stuff, put some of it away and rotate. Clean out every now and again and have him help decide what he is ready to give to someone who might better play with it.

Oh and one last bit of advice I learned from Love and Logic--it's okay to delay consequences. "Mommy and Daddy will decide on a consequence for your not having cleaned your room. We're not sure right now, but we'll let you know by the end of the day." This delay alows you to think a little more clearly about logical consequences and not act rashly (we're giving all of your toys away). Do you really want to have to follow through with that one?

Hello S.! I am also having the same problem with my 4 yo son. My son is very very stubborn & at times can get very hateful! I also have a problem with him eating and not trying new things. I do agree with a lot of the other responses, they had a lot of good advice and I am going to try some of these things. Thanks for this post, it makes me feel like I'm not the only one out there having this problem!

I have a 3 year old and I have come very close to doing the same thing... not because I think it will help him "get it" and be motivated to clean up, but actually for my sanity so he doesn't have as many toys to make a mess with!
Laurie A. has some great tips and my son and I often end up in giggles on the floor of a very clean room after the tickle monster runs out of things to tickle over =)

Make it a game. The more fun he has, the more he will want to play again!

Also, don't let him have 30 matchbox cars in one bin. Help him decide which 10 to keep in his play space and which 20 to "hide" and play with later. Take pictures of what toy goes in which bin so it is clear where things go. He WILL get it - just set the example and the tone.

You could also play one or two songs to "race" to if he is in to that... Tell him, "See if we can clean up all your toys before the song is done." Make sure that you help the first few times and always help if you had anything to do with playing with the toys. I usually say something like, "Sure I'll help you clean up, I played with these toys too and I want to take care of them. It feels good to take care of the things I use."

Good luck and have FUN with it =D

If you threated to do it, be sure you're ready to follow through! I disagree with the others saying that 4 yrs old is too young. My just turned three year old knows she is responsible for cleaning up her toys. I'm not saying I don't help her with it, but I have threatened (and followed through) on putting toys in the trash (luckily it's only been $1 toys so far..but she's just as attached to those as to some of her other toys!).

Are you cleaning up "as you go" or trying to do it all at once at the end of the day? I find that it works well if you do the "put one toy away before getting out another." It doesn't ALWAYS happen that way, but it works often enough to keep her from getting too frustrated. Or, when she wants a toy that's put away, I'll remind her to put away the others before I will give her the "new" toy that she wants.

obviously taking the toys has not effect because he knows he's going to get them back. And now that you've said they're gone for good and then give them back, you really have no leverage there.

I would put the toys back, BUT not allow him to play with them. He can't touch them, he can only look at them. Then, if he's good, he can earn one toy back. He can only play with one toy at a time, that way no big mess. Unfortunately, that means no legos or building blocks because they do make a big mess but he can have a truck or a car or an action figure or whatever, but only one.

Tell him when you see that he's able to keep that one toy picked up, he can get a second toy and just have him earn them back one at a time by cleaning up his mess.

I would try to make it much easier to clean up and just have one Toy Box to put them in. When he puts them all away, make a big deal about it. Then later start adding separate bins. I know he can do it, the separating that is, and is probably very capable but that part of it for boys sometimes is overwhelming. Start off simple...move to complex. Then he will receive appreciation for a while and add more tasks.

He's too young to totally comprehend the concept but you can START
guiding him.

Most people I know (esp men) don't put their things away after use.

The best thing is to start taching & guiding now.

Have a place for things: cubbies, toy box, closet for big items etc.

Help him clean up. Show him.

Best let them have two things out at once to vascilate playing between.

Sometimes my son has a block "masterpiece" he wants to save that he
built and showcase. I've taught him to try & build it out of the way of foot
traffic.

An appropriate way to handle it is to let him play with his toys (let's say
train tracks) letting him know that when he's done w/that toy then he
has to put it away before moving on to another toy.

I help w/this so he sees the chore in a bite-size chunk that is managable
plus to show him where to put these items back. It teaches them that
everything has it's place & how to keep a tidy home or area.

I do let him keep one area more "toy infested" while trying to keep other
areas or the main room clutter free..

It also helps to start this with either his favorite toy, blanket or shoes telling him if you always put "said item" right here "it belongs, you will always know where to find it. It won't disappear & you never have to
hunt for it all over the place."

Make it easier for him, help & show him how to clean up before moving on & realize that their while their attention spans are increasing they are
still very short at this stage.

Laurie A.'s answer is the ticket. You have to guide him and reinforce close approximations to the behavior you want ("Hey, great job getting the cars in the car bin!"). Look for progress...not perfection! Verbally reward that progress.

Sure, kids pick up in daycare/preschool each day, BUT there are several children helping to pick up all at once, so it doesn't seem so overwhelming as it does at home when your child has to pick up everything.

Having him race against the music is a good idea.....we have done that, and it works well.

Also, don't wait until the very end of the day (night), right before bedtime to have him pick up everything. When kids are tired, they are less likely to listen well, be cooperative, and thus, be successful at tasks we're trying to teach him. Have him pick up most of his things earlier in the evening or late afternoon, but let him keep a few things out that can be picked up in just a minute or so.

Don't throw away his toys (but, in the future, don't say things that you aren't really willing to follow through with). It may be helpful, however, to clear out some of the toys so that clean up time isn't such a big task. You might want to go through his toys and ask which ones he'd like to donate to children who need some toys to play with. If he's not ready to part with them, maybe put some in the closet and rotate at a later time.

My youngest is 7, and he is finally getting really good at it, although he still needs to be encouraged.

It's a process....takes time and LOTS of guidance, repetition, and reinforcement.

Good luck!

J. F.

A 4 year old does not have the metal cognitive ability to do so much. He needs it to be broken down into much much smaller jobs. The idea of him picking up all the trains then coming to see you and perhaps getting a small reward then getting another assignment is a good idea.

If I see a messy room I start breaking it down into smaller jobs so I am not overwhelmed. I see many many small jobs and not the whole lot of it.

Keep working with him. He is way too young to be getting it yet but you are building a good foundation.

I don't have any advice to add but want to say 4 is not too young for this. My daughter just turned 4 and we have the same expectation. Sounds like you might be able to use a couple tips and just keep on keeping on. Good luck to you!

My 4 year old boy won't normally clean up. I did, however, get him to pick up all the toys in his room the other day. He came to me wanting a chocolate chip cookie. They were up high on top of the fridge. I had to tell him to clean up a certain #, then a few more, then this and that. He did really well with it and got the cookie. Taking aways his toys doesn't seem to work unless it's one he has in his hand and he's playing with at the moment. Good luck! It's a tough one.

If it's a large mess, like his trains or cars, I tell him to clean up. If he refuses, I tell him if Mommy has to clean it up, I'm putting it away for a week.
If it's something small, just 1 02 two items, I will tell him that he has to go to time out and then he will have to put it away after time out. If he still refuses after going to time out, I will carry him to it and pick it up with his hand and my hand and have him put it away.