I met my husband five years ago and have been married to him for almost four years. My husband and I are 43. We have two kids, ages 2 1/2 and 1 1/2. My husband doesn't seem to be the type that has a high libido. I am the type who does, but I haven't felt emotionally or physically attracted to my husband for approx. four years. (I didn't think that I ever felt crazy about him.) I haven't told him I loved him for a couple of years, and I don't initiate sex, kissing, etc. I don't feel comfortable touching him. I'm sure it's not a hormonal problem as I am attracted to other men and miss my first boyfriend. After much therapy, both individual and couples, reading of relationship guides, such as those by John Gottman and Dr. Laura, and attempts to talk to my husband about our marital problems, I realize that I married my husband because we both wanted kids and I was running out of time, my parents approved of the marriage, and other practical reasons. In essence, I "arranged" my own marriage. My husband does not beat me and he does not cheat on me, as far as I know. Because he is a touring musician/roadie, he is out of town at least half the year. He will not change careers because he does not know what else to do and thinks that most other jobs that don't require a geographical separation from one's family (office jobs in his mind) are boring, confining, etc. He is a very good father. He is a really clumsy lover. I wonder if that is partly a result of coming from an extremely religious (Catholic) family in which talking about sex was taboo. (His mother wrote "Abstinence, abstinence, abstinence on the consent form sent to parents to allow them to permit their kids to watch the sex ed film, so he never got sex ed at school. His father was so uncomfortable talking about sex that he was too uncomfortable to even teach his son to shave. Ironically, his father was a middle school counselor and marriage therapist! In short, his parents never taught him anything about sex or let the school teach him anything about it.) My husband snores like a whole army of chainsaws cutting down the Pacific Northwest. He reluctantly wears a mouthguard when he is home so that I can usually stand sleeping in the same room as him. The mouthguard is uncomfortable and does not completely eliminate the snoring. (I cannot safely use earplugs as earplugs that completely blocked his snoring would prevent me from hearing wake-up alarms and my kids' crying.) I asked him if he was willing to consider using a CPAP (face mask). He thinks it's too inconvenient, and I agree, considering his lifestyle and hearing how uncomfortable it was for his dad, who is also a world-class snorer. I asked him if was willing to consider surgery to stop snoring. He told me that his doctor told him that it would hurt and that there was no guarantee that surgery would fix the problem, so he doesn't want to undergo surgery. He is not obese, so losing weight, although he could stand to lose a few pounds, would not eliminate his snoring. Thus, I think that the snoring is permanent. The snoring keeps me up and very tired and is very unsexy to me. None of my previous partners snored.
I am not trying to blame my husband for the situation. I feel bad (sad and guilty) that we're in this situation. I don't think that it's a good idea for me to end the marriage even though I feel very frustrated. Has anyone been in a similar situation? How can one survive and thrive in a loveless marriage? I imagine that some people have. Any practical, detailed suggestions from someone who has been in this situation would be greatly appreciated. And no, "Put on sexy lingerie, and just do it," as one of my former therapists advised, won't do it for me.
Sincerely,
L. E
Thank you for many thoughtful, detailed responses. I look forward to trying many of your suggestions (reading books, attending seminars, and the like). I don't know exactly what to do to make my marriage romantic for both my husband and me, but I can make my relationship with my husband as friendly as humanly possible. I, plan to try to make, over the next two years, my marriage the best I can. By then I will be further along in graduate school and closer to getting a job. If my marriage is still not going well two years from now, I will again think about my options. Sometimes I just wish that I felt that the way so many women on this board feel. In describing their husbands, many of the women write, "soul mate," "love of my life," "man of my dreams," "knight in shining armor." How did I miss the (love) boat?
Hi Lynne,
Getting the Love You Want is a book written by Harville Hendrix. May help.
If you are close to Newport Beach, Pat Allen has open therapy nights on Wed. evening at 7pm. It's only $10 and enlightening to listen to other people share. You can google her and find her info.
Good luck,
Wendy
Well Lynne based on what I've seen so far you might want to be be careful about the advice you are getting. That your husband is a good father is a plus but love between the two of you is what you need (And what your children need to see modeled for them.) Respect and kindness are the building blocks of love in a marriage relationship. Forgiveness is the glue that holds those blocks together. An attitude of gratitude on your part is essential and is cultivated by focusing on the positive. Have you heard of the movie Fireproof or the book 'The Love Dare'? This little book has helped me in my marriage which at one time was heading in the direction you've described. What I've found is that when you change your thoughts you change your actions and by default you change your life! I hope you find the same with positive results for your whole families sake. The legacy you are creating for your children (and theirs) will tell the story of the choices you've made and impact generations beyond our own. These are the things I like to think about to help me make the best choices now. I'm just helping to fit the little pieces together but there is a big picture being formed by the pieces we choose. I hope to God that I will do all I can to make that picture beautiful. I wish you all the best too and hope something that I've shared is of value to you.
Wow, what a sad situation. I think you might be right, you arranged your own marriage so that you could have kids. Have you just laid it all out on the table with your husband? Since he's gone half the year anyways perhaps a more permanent seperation is the best option. How is your husband feeling? Is he happy? Have you talked to him about an open marriage. If your needs are not being met I'd imagine his are'nt either. If you're staying together for the kids, think again. Trust me, as they get older they're going to know that there parents have no connection - is this the sort of role model you want for them?
On a personal note I'd consider psychoanalysis to work out why you put yourself into this situation. As with all of us, your past history affects and informs your current situation. Working out the past will definately help you be happier in the present. BTW, any therapist that say's put on sexy lingeree is inept and incompetent. I'm not suprised it did not work for you.
Re the snoring, try the breath right strips. My husband uses them with his mouth guard and they help a lot. Good luck.
You have many issues to look at here. Let's start with the simplest one, the snoring. Ask your husband to start playing the digeridoo. It actually can cure the snoring and since he is a musician he might be into it. I have to agree with him about the surgery. No guarantees. Chiropractic adjustments might help the situation. Also, I would urge you to follow the suggestion on NAET for allergies. Neti pot would also be a great idea.
Asking him to give up his career as a musician and take an office job will do nothing but aggravate the situation. You knew going into this what his career was and I don't think it is fair of you to ask him to change especially in light of the fact that you basically married him so you could have children. My husband and I spent the first 3 years of our relationship apart as he was on tour, he was a roadie. Long distance can make or break because you are forced to talk if you are to have contact. You can really learn to communicate well.
I can relate to a great many aspects of your story. I married when I was 45 and my husband was 53. He had two grown children and was on to the grandchildren phase of life so when we first started dating we both agreed that children were not going to be part of our future together. He snores, he is not interested in learning the digeridoo or the neti pot unfortunately. (I am still working on enticing him to try them.) His libido is about zero. It slowly just left. It is so frustrating because I am not done. He has taken supplements for his prostate which could be a component of your husband's problem. The trouble is, when he is not motivated it is difficult to keep them going. There are several male formulas available. Check out Whole Foods. I love Dr Schulze formulas available as herbdoc.com. His store, The Natural Botanical Pharmacy is located in the Marina del Rey.
One huge difference is that we genuinely love each other and at least cuddle and hug and kiss. We hold hands. You need some sort of physical contact. I have struggled with the lack of sex and from experience I can tell you he has to see a need to do something about it. I could have found it easily outside the marriage, but it is not something I could live with. That's for the two of you to decide. It's not my idea of a marriage, but I can't tell you what is right for you. I would say you are right that he is not getting it on the side. A man with a low libido is not likely to seek it.
Now, on to the children. Do you want to raise them in a loveless marriage where mom and dad don't show any affection to one another? We learn a great deal from our parents about relationships and the first 5 years of a child's life are the most important. You don't mention how emotionally available he is to the children.
You did mention that you both wanted children. How important is the family unit to you both? How much do you want to work on making this work? Do you go out on dates? Do you do fun things together or are you so repelled by him that you can't? It is quite possible that your husband has picked up on your lack of feelings and is reacting by withdrawing. Teach him about sex. We had some great fun together when my husband was into it. I still hold out hope that we will again. We talk about it and he says he is willing to work on it. So I keep hoping. You don't sound like you have any interest let alone hope. What do have to work on?
You have hard decisions to make. It is possible to have intimacy without having sex. You don't even mention whether or not your husband is your best friend. My husband and I talk about everything. He is very supportive of all I try and I reciprocate. I don't get that sense from reading your posting. A marriage without love, intimacy, friendship is not a marriage. It's a business arrangement. Good luck. Think hard. Talk to him.
Blessings.
Good Morning Lynne,
I have 3 books for you and 2 seminars.
Books:
1. Mars & Venus Diet & Exercise Solution by John Gray, PhD
2. Say Goodbye To Illness by Dr. Devi Nambudripad
3. Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Balch
Seminars:
1. Celebrating Men, Satisfying Women
2. Forum, Forum in Action, Advanced Course and Leadership & Self Expression Course by Landmark Education.
All books can be found on Amazon.com at a discounted rate.
Both Seminar groups can be found on the internet. And both seminar groups hold seminars in the Los Angeles Area. I have been involved with Landmark Education since 1997 and Celebrating Men since 2000. Both are great in developing yourself and learning how to get your needs and wants met in life.
Nutrition: Nutrition is a huge part of being able to function well in life, let alone sex life. If we do not have what we need nutritionally to be well, or if we are allergic to what we are eating, our body is not functioning properly.
John Gray's book talks about men and women's bodies and the differences in chemical brain fluids and how our bodies work and what we need nutritionally. Very informative.
Dr. Devi Nambudripad's book is all about Allergies. Western Medicine does not give enough attention to allergies as they should. Allergies are very disabling to the body in many ways. Sometimes allergies do not manifest in the form of a rash or a hive, it could be weight gain, or inability to want sex or have sex. This book is priceless and every home should have a copy of her book. Also, if you log onto NAET.com, you will find a group of allergists around the world who ELIMINATE allergies. They are the only ones in the world who do this and without drugs. All natural. I am currently seeing an NAET allergist and my allergies are being eliminated. I have had severe allergies my entire life and I have suffered many physical problems because of allergies. Now, only after a few months of treatments with my NAET allergist, my allergies are being eliminated and my physical problems are disappearing.
Balch's book is about learning what you need on a daily basis to be healthy. This is another book which should be in every household. I've used this book since the 90's and I am still using it.
I have also been involved with the Nutrition world since the 90's and it is a love of mine. If you have any questions, I can answer them, ____@____.com Well.
N.
Honestly, you can't....
Sooner or later you may become so frustrated that you end up doing something you regret.
I would suggest sleeping separately for now, so you can oth get a good night's sleep (which you will need to take care of your children).
If you insist on staying married, I would either invest in a very good vibrator, or see if your husband would consider an open marriage.
That said, usually lack of sex is indicative of a lot more problems, and even if you find some way to deal with the sex portion, you may find that you are still miserable.
Continue to go to counseling to figure out what would work best for you and your children. You may find a way to cope, or you may discover that you simply can't stay in the marriage. Either way you will be able to deal with the situation in a way that is best for everyone.
Hi Lynne,
I gave you this advice privately, but now see that others have similar issues and no one else has recommended "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley, Jr. I strongly urge you to read it and visit his website, Marriage Builders: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/. Speaking with one of the on-line coaches, especially Steve Harley, is highly recommended. The book saved my marriage. My husband and I were in a loveless marriage hanging on for the kids. But its not a healthy environment. Marriage takes work and is even harder when recovering from one spouse's affair. I urge you to work on the marriage before one of you falls into an affair. It is devastating. I cannot believe the advice of open marriage. That's not marriage and that's not an example for your children. You may ultimately decide that your marriage is not going to work, but at least you will have given it your best shot. I can tell you that the Marriage Builders process does work. My husband was all set to divorce me 6 months ago and now he's happy he didn't. He was initially very reluctant to go through the process, but now he urges me to make our appointment with the Marriage Coach.
I agree with others that there may be something physically or chemically off-balance with your husband. Is he depressed? Additionally, there are some great sex manuals for gals and guys out there. I really like Lou Paget's. Her website is http://www.loupaget.com/ and she also gives seminars.
Good Luck!
A.
Hi Lynne.
Wow, reading what you wrote sounded exactly like what I am also going through. I am 42 and have a 9 month old son. I want another baby but am also in a loveless relationship. We have been together for almost 3 years and both wanted children (we were childless, and I had never been married before). He is alot older than I am and I was never really attracted to him physically or emotionally other than that we both wanted the white picket fence life and the children so at age 39 with my last call for having children staring me right in the face, I got involved with him. Sex the first time was awful as it was the last time I had it with him which was about 18 months ago. He works 7 nights a week so I am alone everynight with our son and he is gone until the morning. I know he is not cheating on me and I am also not cheating on him though I do dream about old boyfriends. I am not the least bit physically attracted to him which I am sure he knows and also haven't said I love him in probably 2 years. He also has a big snoring problem. I bought him a sonic pillow which works about 50% of the time but it doesn't matter since we don't share a bed now that he works nights and sleeps during the day.
I don't think stopping his snoring is going to suddenly make you attracted to him if you never felt it for him in the beginning. You can't suddenly create chemistry if it was never there to begin with; I think your best bet is to decide if there is anything to go forward with for the sake of your children. If you think as time goes by you will feel numb and stop growing in your life from this dead relationship, push will come to shove and you will eventually get out of it...maybe not this year but one year in the future...2010, 2011...who knows.
What is keeping you in your relationship now? Is it fear of how leaving your husband could impact your children? Will the best things he has to offer as a father to your kids still be there if you two separate? If the answer is yes, then ask yourself what else you are waiting for.
I am staying in my relationship because I want another child and my partner is an excellent father..just not a good relationship partner. There is no respect, gratitude or admiration between us and there is fighting which will probably eventually cause me to get out so that my son does not grow up witnessing how mommy and daddy fight. I think my bf feels resentment that he loves me and I do not really feel the same connection for him that he says he has felt for me all along, yet he refuses to leave me. We also cannot split up due to the economy and not being able to sell a house we purchased together since the market tanked..we are pretty much stuck together until we figure out what to do with the house. I also just lost my job a few months ago so he is the sole breadwinner other than my small unemployment check which goes 100% toward the mortgage, until I can find another job. Once I find something, I may put a plan into work to leave and just accept the fact that I will only have one child in life and not more.
I read all of the responses from women on here but other than one woman who recommended a few books, I didn't see anything that would be helpful to me. I have met Pat Allen many times and personally don't think her advice is that great. She has also been divorced 4 times and widowed once, I think. The Harville Hendrixx book is ok. Another is "Make Up, Don't Break Up", but again...this only works if you initially had that spark of attraction for your partner and just want to get it back. If you never had it, you can't suddenly grow it. Believe me, I have tried.
I would really be curious to know what you decide to do. My guess is you won't make any decisions overnight since your babies are still so young, but you will eventually get out of your relationship when you have the resources and a plan of action in place that will transition you and your children into life as a single mom with two kids.
My bf and I already discussed this hypothetical scenario..what if we split up, etc., because I told him it may happen since I don't think either of us is particularly happy with eachother. He at first refused to discuss it since he wants us to be together (even if we have a loveless relationship but adore our son and are good parents to him other than our own lack of connection). Eventually we talked about it and agreed that if it came down to a separation one day, that we would still both be equally involved with our son and live very close to each other's homes so as to see our son and share parenting as if we were still together since it is what is best for our son.
I really wish you luck in your situation. Please feel free to write back. You sound as though you need some emotional support.
I read your post out loud to my daughter's father. So, so similar to what we are going through -- even the timing -- we've been together 5 years. Mine only snores when he has had a glass of wine, or beer. He seems to relax into a strange sleep and then the horror begins. I have taken to sending him to sleep on the couch when it happens. I also do sleep with ear-plugs -- I seem to have no difficulty waking up when my daughter makes noise even with them on. We've only been to a single "therapy" session and we both found it quite good. I think we conceived our daughter shortly afterward. After she was born I did not want sex at all, but now I do again. I just can't bring myself to claw my way back to mediocrity. I am impressed that you feel moved to fight for your relationship. Maybe the second child makes the difference. I am in a quandary because I don't want to deprive my daughter of her father (he is amazing with her and she adores him). I keep wondering how many more years I will actually want sex... I'm 38 now. It seems like it will probably be at least another 10 years. As I am typing this, he just walked in with See's candy. Chocolate and good fathering go a long way in my book. But I do miss sex like crazy and know it would make me a happier, healthier person to have it back in my life. You are inspiring me not to give up...
Anyway, I did want to give you the contact information for the person we went to that once:
Heather R. Dawn
The Ecstatic Body!!!
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www.theecstaticbody.com
