Separation or Divorce? I Feel Lost

Others can answer the marriage question, but I just want to ask you why you are not taking thyroid replacement hormone? There is no reason not to. One little pill a day will make you feel like a new person in three days. There is no reason to go through life exhausted and barely functioning, and no reason to be afraid of synthetic thyroid hormone, if that's the issue.

Hypothyroidism (which I assume is the case) is COMPLETELY fixable. Take the pill.

I thought about seperating because I need a rest from caretaking. I can't get my disabled husband to let someone be hired to help him at night and we have the money. The truth is it would be easy to move from seperation to divorce. It would seem easier, but my child would be wounded and because of her I am going to fight for my marriage.
Marriage counseling is not a place for a referee to say who is right or wrong.

I believe your family is worth fighting for. But it is the holidays and so I am going to recommend that you behave normally for your children, do not even address this issue for now (yes I know a sort of denial like it isn't happening) and wait this out til the holidays are over.I have been divorced, it is pretty awful and although remarried, happily, seventeen years, my children aged 26 and 21 still have issues. It was something that seriously had to be done. Or was it? Now I am not saying that you won't eventually decide this is it and if it is don't look back with regrets. But you are all still together and this is a time when these painful decisions and statements should be avoided. Give it a bit of time. Your husband rightfully became somewhat selfish during his years of just being himself with you and yes he didn't adjust and YES quite possibly has depression issues. You sound so kind and caring and loving. And counseling as a couple could happen, but do not accept blame. He really doesn't see beyong his own needs at the time and perhaps it is good to explore those with him. Maybe five minutes at a time. Not a big rap session. I do not know his background and perhaps that would help, but maybe that affected him. Maybe he knew all along what his needs were as selfish as they may be and never did anything about them. Never say never. He can adjust. Hang in there temporarily and realize too that the holidays can bring about terrible depressions in people that are not easily identified which may have nothing to do with all of you as a family. And keep writing us. We are here for you.

Some people think that marriage counseling is a place where you go to complain about what's wrong with the other person and the therapist is going to choose sides with one of the spouses to then tell the husband how wrong he is and how he needs to fix himself.

That's not marriage counseling. Marriage counseling addresses problems within the marriage between both partners. Because you're both culpable for the problems in a marriage, both need to learn how to communicate better and relate to each other better. After children some couples have to really work to learn to relate better and carve out time together. They have to relearn how to express themselves.

One mistake couples make is not putting their marriage above all else in their household. A healthy marriage must be a priority over certain things with the children that are not immediate needs. The relationships take care and tending, just as much as children do, and it's easy to put off tending the marriage for the kids and losing your identity in the kids. Being a mom shouldn't come before being a wife and a woman.

There's a rule on an airplane that when you're with a child, if there's trouble you put your air mask on before you put the mask on your child. You can't take care of your child appropriately unless you're breathing and set up safely and happily. Get stable before you can get your child stable. It's the same way in life. Your family life, your children, won't be stable unless your marriage is stable.

So your husband has to know that you hear his concerns and you care about how he's feeling. He has to know that you want to fix things and are motivated. You have to be straightforward about it and show him by making time. If you give a little, then he might give a little too and agree to a session of counseling and if that goes well he might agree to make another appointment.

I think, right now, you have only one choice, you would like to save the marriage, he refuses to go to counseling, so you HAVE to go by yourself. Maybe he will change his mind later and join you.

I have not been in your shoes, but felt bad that no one else has written in. I know this sounds bad, but I can't think of anything else - talk to your lawyer and get everything prepared. Sock it to him. Tell him that he will pay dearly to leave you and that his only hope of you not hosing him is to go to counseling and try to save your marriage.

I don't think this is good advice, but if you are really desperate enough to try it, and you WORK to meet his needs regardless of how tired you are, and listen to the couneslor, maybe it will work.

So sorry.
Dawn

Hi E.,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. My ex-husband refused to go to counseling and that was the last straw for me, but my circumstances were much different than yours. I am a stone waller like you (I shut down). I think you should go to counseling, purely because it will benefit you. It will help give you clarity on what your next steps are. Sometimes when one partner goes the other one becomes motivated to try, even if it's just to make sure their side of the story is being represented. For me, I need a partner who is willing to work on themselves. Refusal to go to counseling is quitting. But if depression is the problem, maybe you can find another approach to get through to him. You have so much invested in your family it is worth fighting for.

Do you have some kind of date night? Some quality time together might help open up the conversation.

Asking him to move out is a tough one - only you can really make that decision. For some it's helpful but for most it is the beginning of the end. Perhaps you just need to clearly express your anger and frustration.

I'm wishing you all the best.

Dear E.; My advice is to get to an endocrinologist and get your thyroid problem worked out. There are so many other problems that are triggered by that gland that you really need to be guaranteed you are in optimum health before you tackle all those other issues. You don't say how old you are, but it sounds like you could be entering menopause. Get physically healthy first.

Dear E.,
Do you go to a church to whom you could find a priest or pastor in whom to confide? I just divorced my husband of 25 years in August. I gave everything to the marriage and he did very little. I do not know what to say to you, but life on the other side of marriage is not as bad as I had anticipated.. I can meet with you sometime to talk if you need someone.
Before leaving him, I, over the course of the 25 years had gone to counseling many times. He attended two of the times (Several sessions) but as I was the only one talking it had no effect on him. I am a very practicing Catholic and so increased my prayers for our family and my time devoted to prayer an enormous amount so I know I made the decision in a state of grace. But I cannot address anyone else's situation. It is a very hard place to be during the holiday, but be sure in any case next Christmas will find you in a better place somehow.
C.

I am so sorry you're going through this. My own marriage was blissful and then got much harder when the kids came along. I am so happy we have children, but they definitely require selflessness and a lot of attention and energy. I've seen my own parents have their ups and downs and watched them stayed committed through the hard times and now have something beautiful that I yearn for and know I can also have in my marriage if we stay committed through the difficult times. My mom actually recently had to give a persuasive speech in a college class, so she gave it on one of her passions -- marriage. Her message is so encouraging and hopeful that I'd like to share it with you and maybe you can share it with your husband:

A Committed and Loving Marriage by Francie Harris
A few weeks ago, I happened to see Dr. Curtis’s wife, Tonka, at Walmart. We visited for a little while and in the course of our conversation we started talking about marriage. Tonka told me that she didn’t realize what true happiness was until after she got married…and then it was too late! Actually, Dr. Curtis and his wife have been happily married for over 26 years, and I’m going to guess that like most married couples, they have experienced their share of challenges along the way. But I’m certain if you asked them they would both tell you that they are glad they made the decision to get married and to stay married. My husband and I have been married for 36 years, and I can tell you from personal experience that great happiness and fulfillment in life can be found through a committed and loving marriage between a man and a woman. I am convinced that the most important thing that a married couple can do to achieve this happiness is to be totally committed to their marriage.
One of my favorite songs is entitled “A Long Line of Love.” Written by Paul Overstreet, this song tells the story of a young couple who have decided to get married. When the girl expresses her concern about whether or not their marriage will endure, the young man responds:

“I come from a long line of love.
When the times get hard, we don’t give up.
Forever’s in my heart and in my blood;
You see, I come from a long line of love.”

I appreciate the message in this song because after 36 years of marriage I understand what it means not to give up when the times get hard—to stay committed through all the ups and downs that are inevitable in marriage. Unfortunately, there are many people in our society today who have chosen to give up on marriage—to either just live together without making marriage vows at all or to sever those vows if they become difficult to keep.
According to the Rutgers National Marriage Project more than half of all first-time marriages in the United States end in divorce, and the divorce rate for remarriages is even higher. The statistics for cohabitation are worse, with eight out of ten couples who cohabitate eventually choosing to break up.
In the book, “The Case for Marriage,” family sociologist Linda J. Waite and journalist Maggie Gallagher share research indicating that married people live longer, have better health, earn more money, accumulate more wealth, feel more fulfillment in their lives, enjoy more satisfying sexual relationships, and have happier and more successful children than those who remain single, cohabitate, or get divorced. Best-selling author and marriage therapist Michele Weiner-Davis claims that depression is almost three times as prevalent in women who have been divorced than in women who haven’t.
I realize that there are situations when divorce is a necessary solution. Certainly when one of the spouses or the children are being abused, then divorce is completely justified. Unfortunately, there are many people who feel that divorce is also justified when they are no longer attracted to each other, or they experience difficulties, or they’re unhappy in the marriage. There have been times in my own marriage when I have been miserable. There have been times when my husband and I could barely stand each other. But, as renowned author and speaker Gary Smalley states, “Love is a decision—not a feeling.” As humans we have the capacity to choose our thoughts and our behavior. We can choose to stay committed even when we feel like giving up.
For those who are struggling in their marriages, there are many helpful resources available. Additionally, the likelihood of an unhappy marriage improving dramatically all on its own is actually quite high. In research shared by the above-mentioned Waite and Gallagher, 86 percent of a group of unhappily married couples who chose to stay married, reported that five years later their marriages were either “very happy” or “quite happy.”
In her book, “Debt-Proof Your Marriage,” author Mary Hunt describes five stages that most couples experience in marriage. She calls Stage One “Magnetic Attraction,” when the couple is totally infatuated and in love. Stage Two is called “Reality’s Rude Awakening.” During this stage there are times of doubt, confusion, and frustration as the couple tries to adjust to the differences that manifest themselves after the honeymoon is over. Stage Three is titled “I Love You; Now Change!” Blame, hurt, and resentment move in where care and respect once resided. Some couples respond to all of the difficulties of Stage Three by simply giving up and calling it quits. Those who choose to remain married eventually reach Stage Four, which is called “Surrender and Acceptance.” Spouses in this stage come to accept the fact that they’ll probably never see eye to eye on many things, but there is a deep sense that despite their differences, they need each other. This acceptance creates a climate where compassion and understanding can emerge. This can then lead to the fifth and final stage called “Peace, Harmony, and Romantic Love.” Couples who make it to Stage Five often report that the romantic love of Stage One reappears, but with a stronger sense of caring due to the effect of time, commitment, and shared experiences.
I am happy to report that after 36 years of marriage, my husband and I have reached Stage Five, and it is a wonderful place to be. To those of you who are living with someone, but who have chosen not to make the full commitment that comes with marriage, I encourage you to make that commitment and then honor it with complete fidelity. To those of you who are married or who eventually decide to get married please don’t give up when you experience challenges and disappointments. Hang in there and keep trying. Make sure that, “When the times get hard, [you] don’t give up.” From personal experience, I assure you that as you choose to remain faithfully and lovingly committed in your marriage, you can experience great joy and fulfillment.

You can't make him do anything. You can decide what you will do for yourself. I encourage you to go to counseling yourself. Again, you can't change him, but you can learn to show up differently, then he will have to respond differently.

Do not keep score ("I am the one doing all the work"). Be giving and generous, to him and to yourself. Don't wait until after "the holidays" go seek help right away.

Then remember that all families are not better off living together. There is more than one way to raise healthy children.

I think you should pursue the counselor on your own for a few weeks/months. I know you want him to be equally invested right out of the gate in saving this marriage, but he isn't. You can still learn a lot. It almost sounds like you may be getting serious about changing too late, but if he SEES you changing, not saying you WILL IF HE does, it may make a difference.

And no matter what, if it cannot be saved, a dysfunctional relationship where two people are depressed is not guaranteed to be the best thing for the kids. I personally come from a divorce home and have many divorced friends. My husband's parents are also divorced. EVERYONE is so much better off in their current relationships than they were in their first marriages. I think the whole "fighting for marriage no matter what" is not always the highest road. But work on yourself first, and see if you can embody change and inspire your husband to try. And YES. Possibly ask him to move out, in a loving, "Maybe you're right and this won't work, but I'm going to try" way. That will also shake him up. Work on yourself, become better, and set him free. He may come back on board.

I would definitely go to counseling for yourself.
You can't look at it like, "I will be doing all the work to fix something that he is also a part of and responsible for".
The work you'll be doing will be on yourself. Don't ever think that one person can "fix" a marriage. I have said it a million times....Two half-people do not equal one "whole" person. It simply doesn't work that way.

My husband had become increasingly abusive. My attorney wanted me to file for legal separation first, thinking that might snap my husband into reality of some sort. I had told him repeatedly that if he didn't get help, I was leaving. Well, we filed legal separation and my husband went literally insane. We did try counseling with several different people, but his idea of how that was supposed to go was for me to be told to straighten up, start being a good wife and do as I was told. Well, it didn't work that way. It became increasingly apparent there was no salvaging anything. But, I can't say I didn't try. I changed my papers to dissolution and followed through with the divorce.

Now....that was my experience. It could be that if your husband sees you willing to go to counseling, he may warm up to the idea as well. Even if he doesn't, counseling will help you have your head on straight so that you will be fine if you have to proceed with legal paperwork.

As a child of divorce myself, I strongly advise against staying together just for the sake of the kids. If you're not happy and your husband isn't happy, all that gives the kids is two unhappy parents and the idea that people not being happy in marriage is just a normal part of life.

I think people should attempt to save their marriages. Divorce is hard. But, sometimes you come to a realization that for the sake of everyone involved, it might be the best thing.
If you can't "fix" your marriage, you can work on yourself, and that's never a waste of time.

I wish you the very best.

What I heard you say is that hubby is worn out emotionally and feels distant from you due to limited intimacy and alone time with you. It seems he feels unloved and unwanted as a partner.

Maybe he has just excepted that if he wants to have that intimacy he has to move on. I understand that the thyroid issue is effecting you too. I understand that you need to take care of yourself. I also see a need for you to have a good check up and see if there is any new medication or some sort of therapy with drugs that will make you feel more like your old self.

Best wishes for the both of you.

I and my husband also went through some tough times and I thought very hard about calling it quits. We had a 1.5 year-old daughter and only because of her I was willing to go to counseling. The counselor helped us both to see what was happening in our family and how to help make it better. I also had two teenage step-kids in the mix that were part of the problem. Now 14 years later we are still married and the now-grown step kids are both still speaking to us. All in all, a pretty decent outcome. Bottom line--if you have something of value that is broken and you don't know how to fix it (think of your broken down car that you would have to take to a mechanic to repair), you need to take it to the experts who can help you figure out what needs to be done. But you both have to be willing to go. If your husband doesn't see the value in it, you can still go to learn coping skills. A divorce is just trading one set of problems for another set of problems. Our family counselor is still practicing in NW Mesa. Please send a private message if you would like his contact info. Sincere best wishes for you and your family.

Don't give up keep trying. Court is not the answer. Trust me from experience. Be patient and most importantly be there for your kids.

Keep in touch. Wish you the best of luck.

I do feel your pain. I'm 34 years old with two kids 10 and 6, a girl and a boy. I was married young, age 21, and we had our first baby shortly after. We always had trouble with communication, if I was mad at him for watching TV and not helping with the kids or something I would shut down and not even talk to him. That went on for years. Then things just got worse and he wouldn't even want to do anything with the kids. I did everything, was a stay at home mom while he worked. Long story short we got divorced two years ago. We went to counceling but he gave up and didn't want to try anymore. I got very upset and mean every time we tried to deal with the kids and always was right about everything. He couldn't take it anymore. But if I would have gotten some counceling to work on myself and him himself we could have learn to deal with everything going on and learn how to communicate better. It takes time to learn these things and he may be thinking something totally different then you. Also I always felt like I was doing everything and I was. He only started doing things with the kids after the divorce because he had to. He gave me $350 in my divorce for child support and no alimony. He had all control over me because I was sad, weak, and depressed. I left and filed for divorce but he was the one that wanted it. It turns out he met someone at work and my guess is they were having an affiar a year before I left our home. He never admitted it but I'm sure he was. She is a trophy wife and he looks good with her by her side. And he even gave me just recently full parenting time because he moved in with her. It's been two years since he looked at me or even saw him smile. There is more the this story, that I won't go into here. But basically he shouldn't have wanted the divorce over something very very stupid I did that he could have forgave me for. But he didn't. He wanted to be with the other woman from work so that's why he gave up. He was just waiting for me to screw something up and then I would be blamed for the whole divorce. I didn't cheat on him or anything! Some men are just not worth it and he isn't. I now have a wonderful man in my life, we have been together 1 year.

As far as the kids go, if you guys are always fighting the kids don't need to see that. The kids struggle with it even at a young age. And they do pick sides. Even though I have them most of the time, they really miss their Dad and always talk about him and his girlfriend how how much fun tehy have with them. And they can't want to go to Daddy's. And I get stuck with all the hard stuff, homework, dinners, lunches, breakfast, fights, crying, grocery shopping, etc. He deals with nothing I do.

So it depends on how you feel about him and if you guys are both willing to work things out. What is his reason for not wanting to work things out? Maybe he is having an affair? I didn't put two and two together until a few months ago that he was interested in another woman. And it only has to start with flirting with someone at work, it's so easy to do these days and people just chalk it up to business related things.

If you need to talk let me know.

Your family is worth any effort you can put into it. One thing that helped us is the movie "Fireproof." It changed my perspective on my marriage. Watch it alone or together. Either way I hope it will help.

If you have the money for couseling maybe a better way to spend it would be on hiring someone/others to help you out. Someone to do the things that others can. Like a college student to take the kids to school. I had a lady that would come for an hour a day just to bathe the kids clean the bathroom and get them in their jammies and brush their teeth (or even clean the kitchen).(they loved to play the bath and making a mess) and it would give me time to rest or whatever. You may feel less tired and more loving to him. Doing something that you use to do together may help also. Exercising to a video together (20 minutes a day) may also make you feel less tired (eventually). Or stick the kids in a stroller and go for a walk.If you hire out the things that you expect your husband to do then he would feel some pressure removed. It also would give you a feel for how it would be if he wasn't there. With the kids so young and if he isn't living in the same house (even if it is in a spare bedroom-another option for separation) then you can't ever even run to the grocery store while the kids are asleep or anything. I'd try to make it easier for him to keep him there while he's in his funk. If his attitute doesn't change after awhile you will be better able to handle being a single mom as you will have a network of helpers established and thinking clearer as you will be better rested/less angry and healthier. Good luck. I've never done counseling so I don't know anything about that.

I guess a key question is if you were pretty happy the 20 yrs before. Kids or had gotten to be unhappy and thought kids would fix things... If it's the former, I can't imagine your marriage can't be saved! My husband and I were only married a little over a year before our first child. We were older parents too so no time to wait. So a different situation in a way but I can totally relate to him feeling neglected and you just wanting to sleep! Is that the big issue? If so, you can get past it. We've gone to a counselor as an offshoot of my husband needing to talk to someone about work stuff. I couldn't listen any more. The main main thing is to spend alone time. Get out with him eem if you don't want to. I swear, getting in the car without the kids automatically changes who I am a bit. Get some books to start. Our counselor recommends John gottman books. And I found nonviolent communication great. Nothing to do with physical violence. At least show your husband you're determined. If part of the issue is he feels neglected, this would be evidence you care. Best wishes. And btw, you're kids are getting to the ages it gets easier and pressure will lighten some.