Reword- Girlfriend Dating Man with New Baby

I think, as the fathers girlfriend? You should stay completely out of it and let him handle it.
And her.
100%
That's what you get to do--deal with the fallout of others decisions.
And yeah--you're kind if at the mercy of very O. else involved in this kids life.
If that doesn't sit well with you? Better move along now.
It's not about how much control the mother has -- it's about the fact that you have NO control.

why not just edit and clarify the original post?
doesn't change my original answer, though.
khairete
S.

This was answered, in part, in your prior post although you added details to that, as well as this post, which changed some things. For example, your original post said nothing about her being abusive or there being a court order for no contact.

To repeat and to clarify: no one gets to decide who the other parent is with. Unless there's a criminal or neglect element, it's irrelevant. If there is, you get a court order. It's ridiculous to ask if you can cuddle or feed the baby. Yes you can.

What's so totally ridiculous in this situation is that you say the bio mom is irrational and controlling, there's been a court order in the past, and now your boyfriend and she think they can work this out together. He asks her to legalize the custody and visitation arrangement, and she freaks out and threatens him with not seeing his son. So ALL THE MORE REASON to start the legal process. Your boyfriend is woefully uneducated about this whole legal situation, so instead of actually finding out how to set it up, he gives in to her control. He's either misinformed, he's intimidated by someone with a long history of being irrational, or he actually WANTS to be in this kind of contact with her.

There are red flags here. Instead of insisting that he at least consult a family lawyer or mediator, you ask questions about feeding.

I don't want to be harsh here - just firm. None of the 3 of you is qualified to evaluate this situation. You cannot "work things out" with an abuser. Everyone with a brain tells an abused woman not to believe anything that the male abuser says. Why would it be different with a man being abused by a woman.

Give your boyfriend one week to contact a family lawyer or a mediator and set an appointment to actually learn something. The mediator can try to set an appointment with his ex after the meeting with your boyfriend. If she attends, great. If she doesn't, then the mediator (or someone else in the firm) can become your boyfriend's lawyer and start the process.

If he does not do this, then your relationship is doomed. Get out. You cannot have a future with a man who is too weak to break away from drama that will affect this child for the next 18 years. The definition of insanity is continuing to do things the same way and expecting a different result. His talking to her isn't working. Your continuing to "support him" by reminding him to pay bills and saying you don't agree with her control over him isn't working. And your continuing to post this question on the internet, with the same responses from all the moms here, isn't working either. It doesn't matter what we think - we have no control over whether your boyfriend listens to his ex and allows her to control him.

If he doesn't straighten up and take decisive action, you have a good indication of the kind of man he's going to be with you.

I still hold to my original answer in that he needs a court order to handle the visitation and child support. You be there for him/the baby on his time and you have to understand that she's probably never going to like you. It's not an easy job, and you have more than 18 years (because if you think the drama stops at 18, you're kidding yourself) of this. My own relative has found out the perils of not having a court order and his child pays the price of their bickering.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. We can say she's wrong and that's sad, but really he needs to step up and take lead on everything to do with his child and interactions with his ex. If it is going to get better, that will come with time. If it's not going to get better, time will tell that, too. This isn't your fight.

This is HIS fight. Nevermind how much control you think she should have, this is his fight and he should know his rights. If he refuses to fight for his kid, think long and hard about it. You cannot be the one who cares more than he does about his own child. I wouldn't stay with a man who wouldn't fight for his kid.

She can have as much control as your bf allows, which from what you say is way too much. She is using emotional blackmail to manipulate him. He does NOT need her permission to file for custody, visitation, child support, etc... He should not ask her permission to do any of these things. Yes when she finds out she may not allow him to see the baby, but that will be a temporary situation. He should be documenting every and all issues with this woman so he has evidence to bring to the courts. Save any text messages,voice mails, e-mails, letters etc. He should keep a detailed journal of conversations and interactions with her. He can try and get full custody of the baby if he thinks that is the better option for the child. The courts will determine who that child is best off with, what amount of child support needs to be paid, what kind of visitations and how often. If she has been proven to be abusive in the past, the courts need to know this information also. He needs a lawyer right now!

As far as her being able to tell him what to do in his private life, no she cannot dictate any terms to him, BUT as long as she has something he wants...the baby...she is being enabled to do just that. All the more reason for him to get a lawyer and court ordered arraignments. If she fails to follow those, there are legal consequences.

Many attorneys offer a free 30 minute consult. It is worth his time to utilize these offers.

And I know you didn't ask about this, but you both sound very young and inexperienced with life in general, so some parenting classes and family counseling might also be something the both of you should consider doing together.

If your bf won't consider doing anything to better his situation, and maybe even if he does, you may want to take a good long look at what your life with him is going to be like, and think about if you really want to deal with this for decades, because this IS what your life will be like. Drama of this nature rarely gets better, and almost always gets worse. Loving a person is great, but it is not all the matters in a relationship.

Well it doesn't really matter what any of us thinks does it? It's not our child, and we don't know these people or their situation.
I do feel that if your boyfriend was truly committed to raising this child 50/50 with the mother then he would be working towards that goal, legally.
But he sounds like a boy, not a man.
I sure hope you are using birth control :-(

Once again, a legal document (custodial agreement/child support) needs to be in place.

This has NOTHING to do with what strangers perceive the 'rights' of the mother to be. It's what the judge and the law have already, through precedent, deemed the rights of both parents to be. Period. So, no matter what anyone on this board thinks, it's truly irrelevant. He needs to go get the legal process going and documents in place. Personally, if their background is as full of violence and anger as you mention, a court decree is what you want to protect *yourselves* in this situation. Your boyfriend can get off his dime and pursue it, like yesterday.

He must get a lawyer who is experienced in custody issues and then he must insist on a court order. With the behaviors you describe coming from his child's mother, he and his lawyer will need to insist on a detailed custody schedule and probably on other limitations. They cannot just "try to work things out on their own" and he needs to stop being so scared of his ex that he caves over and over to her controlling demands.

She is using her infant to try to get him back, or maybe to try to punish him for leaving her, or a bit of both. Either way, this is all very immature drama with a child being used shamefully.

Sit him down and tell him that he needs to focus on his son, and then hand him a list of lawyers to call, and inform him that the court is his friend in this case, and he needs to stop being a child himself, stop being scared of his baby mama, and get himself a legal court-ordered arrangement that WILL include child support payments from him.

Then tell him that you are fond of the baby and of him but are bowing out of this relationship and wish him and his child well. He should not be in another relationship at this time or for a long time to come, until he has matured, is no longer afraid of his ex, and has manned up and is in a stable custody and child support situation for a long time. You do clearly like his baby but to be very blunt -- you're getting used too. He can play house with you and the baby and complain to you about his ex. Instead, he needs to grow up and spend a long time being a real parent, and not depending on girlfriends to give him emotional support when he shold be dealing instead with lawyers, the court and earning money for child support.

You are the girlfriend of the baby's father. You have NO RIGHTS regarding the baby.

You live with your boyfriend, so when the baby is in your home, you are there. So be nice to the baby of course.

When your boyfriend has his baby, the baby's mom has NO CONTROL over him in his own home with you.

If there is no legal agreement in place, then as the baby's mom, she easily picks when your boyfriend can see the baby. How much he allows himself to be manipulated is up to him.

If the mom is withholding the baby in exchange for unreasonable demands, then he needs a court order so there is no confusion about when he gets the baby.

These posts seem like you want us to say,
"The baby's mom sounds awful, you guys have a totally above board relationship, always have, no she shouldn't be doing any of this, you are a great future step mom, and the baby's mom should have very few rights because she's crazy and irresponsible and manipulative."

This will not help anything though. So tell your boyfriend to get custody set with courts since the baby's mom is difficult. That's what the court is for: Cases like this. Also urge him to marry you so that you become the step mom without any confusion to your rights in the baby's life.

This is advice based on what you seem to want. Personally, I would back off completely from the baby except for when it's right there in your house, and stay uninvolved in the debates over visiting. And WAIT until you see how your boyfriend handles his life and child for a year or two before considering marrying him one day.

Your first posting wasn't confusing at all so really there's no need for this one. Your bf has a child by another woman and she has every right to be upset with his relationship with you. They have a child together. He probably led her to believe they had a future together. And now she's a single parent and her ex has brought another woman into her newborn baby's life.

Your bf needs to man up and do the right thing. Go to court and get tempory visitation and support now. Leaving it up to the mom to decide will lead to problems now and forever.

As far as your relationship? You get to be a loving presence in the baby's life and nothing more. You are nothing more than the girlfriend and in the baby's mom's eyes she knows how tempory that is.

She doesn't have to 'agree' to get something legal. HE can (and should) file something with the courthouse on his own. They have forms you can download free online or go to the courthouse and ask someone in the law library for the forms and pay a fee (around $10). Then there is a filing fee (ours is around $80).

The simple response to your questions and concerns is that as the mother of the child she can do what she wants UNTIL the dad has legal rights in place. Good luck.

Operating out of fear is never a good place to live. If he had the baby in his possession and refused to give the child back to the mom. The police would probably be called in and they would tell each parent they need to go through the courts to establish legal custody.

Issues of custody have nothing to do with visitation or support but each matter should be documented by the court.

It is important for parents to work together to do what is in the best interest of the child. Many parents struggle with this concept.

I dated a guy who had a baby with another woman in the first year of our dating. She was pregnant with the child before we met. They are now married and their daughter is 26 years old now. They've been married for about 8 years now. He was not good to me or good for me.

I'm married to a man whom I don't have to remind when to pay bills or worry that bills are being paid on time. You are very young and I still maintain you deserve better than this boyfriend you are trying so hard to make this work. A grown man knows when his bills are due and when to pay them. This is a very minimum baseline of a standard for yourself for looking for a mate. While it seems like you are helping him, he should be helping himself in this area.

You have too much vested interest in his life. You need to have more of a vested interest in your own life and future. With or without him. Your love for him is not at question here. What should be is his ability to take care of you if you were his wife and for now he just isn't there.

I would encourage you to get a hobby, take extra hours at your job or get a second job, get on top of your education and then see where this relationship falls when you are making yourself a priority and not him and the drama that comes with him. You deserve better than this. Men are an as is proposition and he isn't there yet even though you want him to be.

I know this wasn't your question but I am curious...if your relationship didn't work the first time why do you think it will work this time? Your BF sure appears to have terrible judgement... Getting his GF pregnant after only a short period of time. Also, you make his ex sound crazy and manipulative so once again terrible judgement on his part to date her and get her pregnant. What did he see in her?

Is this guy really worth the hassle of having to deal with his "controlling" ex? You sound young and I am just wondering why you wouldn't want to find someone that has a much less complicated life. My relationship with my husband was so easy and fun in our 20's and 30's.

To answer your final question... No adult 'should' have any amount of control over another in a personal relationship. An adult chooses to go along with the requests/demands of the other. So your boyfriend is choosing to let the mother of his child dictate his actions, and he is the one who will need to decide when he does not want to go along with requests which are contrary to the interests of himself and the infant. It does not benefit him or the child for them to continue without formal legal agreements regarding custody, support, and visitation of the baby. So even if the mother does 'freak out' and prevent him from visiting/ taking the child after he initiates court proceedings, once the matter is settled, he will have much more secure rights and the child's daily life will be more secure. The mother actually might even settle down and become easier to deal with once she knows exactly how things stand and that she can't play with controlling the child's father.

This is a matter of 'short-term pain, long-term gain,' and the child's father needs to do what Osohapi suggests, namely start the legal process. Cheysma has some good suggestions for him too, if he is inclined to listen to them. Having good legal counsel would be good too.

You are wise to stay out the situation as much as possible because you have NO control over what other people do. Only you know the most likely way for your boyfriend to hear the message that he needs to act, whether it be setting a boundary that you are leaving the conflict zone unless he does X-Y-Z or letting him read these posts. Ultimately, however, he will choose his own course of action and you need to choose yours. Good luck.

ETA: Amy J, as always, has some wise things to say. Read her answer a couple times and think about what she is saying.

C., you sound like a nice, caring person. I'm sure your boyfriend sees this, which is why he wants your company during what sounds like a very stressful time. Your boyfriend is trying to figure out how to be a father (with your help), because he doesn't have a calm, rational baby mama to help guide him through this. This entire situation just sounds a bit low rent and I think that you can do much better.

Give the boyfriend some space so he can try to figure things out on his own. It will help the situation with the other girlfriend until they get things sorted out. If you are both still interested in continuing the relationship once he gets some stability in his life- great. Things are just too messy at the moment to determine if it's the drama or the love keeping you both together. His best friend right now should be his lawyer.

She's trying to control a lot of things that aren't her call, but he's apparently letting her do so. He needs to man up.
Unless she can document that they cause direct harm to the baby, his choice of job, work hours, friends, and/or bed partners is not her concern, and no judge will make them so.
Take her to court.
Any money he gives her should be in the form of a check or money order with a notation that it is for the baby's care and he should keep a copy. Mail it to her certified so that she will have to sign for it. That way he will have proof that he sent it and she received it. Keep receipts of everything he buys for the baby.

You and your boyfriends baby momma seem to be in a possession struggle over your boyfriend.
They had sex, put their DNA together and made a child.
To a degree - they are ALWAYS going to have that bond.
They are working out how to co-parent and they already have the kid in the middle of a tug of war.
He needs to see a lawyer and get his parental rights and responsibilities all written out all nice and legal.
He doesn't need to ask/inform her about it - he can go see a lawyer without telling her and just get the ball rolling.
That way he will be exerting some control over her - that door swings both ways.
(Was there a paternity test? There should be just to verify things. The whole ball game changes if he's not really the biological father.)
You need to stay out of it.
You will have more say in the situation if/when you and your boyfriend marry and you become an official wife/step mother.
If he fathers any more kids with any more women - leave him or kick him to the curb.

People use children as pawns all of the time. I hope he's worth it...

I don't understand your question. Why should anyone be able to control anyone else?

Your last question if I recall correctly was about how much you should do with the baby, or what your role would be in the baby's life. Now this one is about how horrible the mother is ... you didn't mention this before.

I would say your boyfriend and the mother of the child need to sort this out themselves - not sure it involves you. They have to establish boundaries. If she is being emotionally manipulative and won't allow him to see the baby, then he has to go to court to get this legalized. That's why people do that.

Try to stay out of the drama. Sounds like a really bad situation and it's unfortunate for the child - I hope they resolve their issues.

Thank you Wild Woman.

Perhaps I see the situation from an older set of eyes and have lived the hell that was caused and still is being caused. My grandson graduated high school this past weekend in Colorado Springs. His mother, father, step-mother, aunts, uncle, cousin, and my husband (grandfather) and I, (grandmother), were there to witness the event. His other grandfather viewed via internet streaming.

What we are all trying to convey to you is that there are many more eligible men in the world for you to choose from. You do not have to tie your dreams to a man that has a child and a mother who is going to be drama the whole life of that child.

I dated a guy after high school and we had a few plans about being a couple. He and his dad got into a huge fight and he left the home. He stayed with other friends and dated a girl who got pregnant and went through hell with her family. He did finally marry her and have a second child with her. I was hurt and devastated but I moved on and got over him in the course of two years. I received a call from him stating that he was free. I did see if there were any sparks left. There were none. I told him that there was nothing he could do for me now as he had two child and I was not interested. To this date I don't know what happened to him but whatever it was was not good.

So that I why I tell you to move on. Besides it does sound like you need to find out just who you are and you need to learn to love you first and respect yourself first. Go find a place of your own to rent and learn to live by yourself and find your own dreams of travel, cars, jobs, clothes, and fun. A man is the last thing you need at this moment who has other commitments. This woman will do whatever it takes to do what she is doing just because she feels she has all the cards to pull him around to do what she wants.

Have him seek legal counsel and stick to it. He has to want to do this and not you. You have no say in what he and she do with the child. So butt out.

Good luck to you as you will need it. Children are beautiful when it is time for them and when they are wanted and not forced upon someone. You will always be the last one in line for anything. Time to think selfishly about you first and your boyfriend can't do that as he has a child to think about first.

No ring, no fun, no nanny. If need be give him a deadline and if he can't fulfill it, you have your answer to move on.

the other S.

PS Life is just too damn short for all this BS to try to live through without drama and you have a bucket full and Tums/Rolaids are in your future.