Question About Guns, Shooting

It feels good to zero in on a target as all the problem and if we eliminate it then we are all safe again. Guns, video games, what have you.
It's just not true.

Read. http://www.mamapedia.com/questions/6661961933224345601

Gamma G's post. I think that's closer to the truth than any rant I have seen these last few days. Take aim at a real problem and work toward a solution for that.

Prove to me that watching violent movies, video games and reading violent books causes violent behavior.

Do you know what begets violence and anger? Violent and angry FAMILIES. Do you know what causes mental illness? Genetics. Yeah, violent and angry families might be more likely to provide violent movies, video games, and reading material to their kids...but it's not those materials that cause the behavior; it's the fact that those children are raised and socialized to believe that violent behavior is acceptable because it is MODELED to them as acceptable by the people they are closest to.

OR, they are simply mentally ill. You cannot account for crazy.

Correlation does not equal causation.

ETA: "He doesn't understand that once you become desensitized to shooting at the form of a human body you remain desensitized forever. " ~Debra

This is a ridiculous assertion. Absolutely ridiculous. I've been in the Army for over 10 years. I'm a Combat Medic. I see and treat Soldiers with PTSD on a daily basis. NOT ONE of them is "desensitized." Every single one of them MOURNS for the people they killed. They struggle with knowing that they killed someone to save and protect others.

Soldiers have a love-hate relationship with their jobs. We love our country, and hate war. We are NOT desensitized. Our jobs are not like "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare." Our job is "Stop one more terrorist from strapping another bomb on a woman or an 8 year old child in the name of religion."

Do you think someone who was "desensitized" would remember every single enemy combatant they had to shoot? Do you think that they'd remember every scenario with nearly video-tape like accuracy??

My Soldiers remember EVERY SINGLE ONE.

God Bless.

ETA2: "Their mental health and health care systems are excellent and their gun laws are strict. THEREFORE, they don't have our problems. " ~Amy

So which is it? Is there less violence because they have an excellent mental health and health care system, or because their gun laws are strict? I'm sorry, but you can't just toss them together with an argument for gun control and call it good, because the two are unrelated. You don't know for certain that Japan wouldn't still be a non-violent country if everyone had guns, and it kept the strict social/familial standards and great health care.

Switzerland has an incredibly high rate of gun ownership, and a very, very low homicide rate. They also have excellent healthcare.

As far as "our problems" are concerned, considering that the USA holds the title of having the highest number of guns per capita (88.8), the USA also has a much, much LOWER homicide rate than that of countries with far fewer guns per capita. El Salvador, Jamaica and Honduras are the top 3 on the list for homicides with guns, yet NONE of these countries has more than 9 guns per capita.

So how is it that a country with SOOOOOO many guns per capita still has such a low gun-homicide rate? We have LESS than 1/10th (7%) the rate of gun homicides as El Salvador, and El Salvador has less than 1/10th (6.5%) of the amount of guns we have. So don't try to tell me that the problem is the number of guns we have on our streets. The problem is WHO has those guns and who doesn't. Putting more guns into the hands of law abiding citizens SAVES lives.

MzKitty, I completely agree, I'm VERY tired of this subject.

OMG, Debra, are you serious??? "He doesn't understand that once you become desensitized to shooting at the form of a human body you remain desensitized forever. " If that were true, every man and woman that returned from serving our country in battle (SO THAT WE CAN SPEAK FREELY AND HAVE THESE KINDS OF DISCUSSIONS WITHOUT WORRYING FOR OUR SAFETY), would be shooting us at home!

BOTTOM LINE - This is all about MENTAL HEALTH! Do you honestly think that if your child never sees any violence, he is going to be a more responsible adult than my children, who have seen it and played the games? I'm sorry, but If I understand you correctly, you are completely out of your mind. I have nephews that are enthralled by guns, military, etc. - because their father is a police officer. He is the most responsible man I know. He has taken the boys out and taught them how to use AND respect weapons because he has guns in his home, he HAS to for yours and my safety. Because of that he has had to teach his sons the importance of having them in the home. RESPECT AND KNOWLEDGE IS THE KEY!

With that said, mental health is the reason these things continue to happen. Not because they play video games or watch violent shows on tv. My daughters have seen it and played the games. They would NEVER go on a shooting rampage. They know the difference between reality and make-believe. They have respect for the law and weaponry. AND, I have been pro-active in their mental and emotional health their entire lives.

I find it 100% DISRESPECTFUL AND OFFENSIVE TO ALL THOSE PARENTS WHO LOST A CHILD ON FRIDAY. To minimize their suffering to poor parenting because the kid was allowed to watch or play violent games is beyond me! Shame on you! I hope and pray that those of you who think this way NEVER have to experience the loss that those parents are going thru right now.

You can only shelter your children for so long - then they HAVE to enter the real world - then what are you going to do? What are you going to do when they are at a friends house and the kid breaks out the wi or the xbox games??

I have to disagree with your thought process here.

My 7 and 5 year old boys LOVE to learn about war, specifically the Civil War. They love to learn the history of our country, which includes battle re-enactments and videos at places such as the National Smithsonian's, Mount Vernon, and Colonial Williamsburg. These are "violent" with guns and killing in them. Am I going to discourage my boys from learning the history of our great nation? Heck no.

My husband and I are fairly liberal on what our kids watch and listen to. Why? Because we are raising them to be responsible and respectful human beings with morals and values. They know the difference between a movie and real life. We tell them about real death, and don't shield them from much. I'd rather them know things from us than from other people. We respect them as people, but also protect their innocence.

I do NOT think watching a movie about guns drives someone to go shoot up an elementary school anymore than I think someone watching a McDonald's commercial makes them fat. I do think whatever mental illness he had contributed to it. I also think that he needed help years ago. He was a BAD PERSON. The gun didn't make him do it, the movies didn't make him do it, no one made him do it but himself.

I also think you are looking at this with tunnel vision. You are looking at this as your kid(s) coming home to your safe home, having a warm bed to sleep in and food in their bellies. Not everyone is so lucky. Plenty of people in America are raised in dangerous areas where they have to worry more about dodging a bullet from a gang member than making sure they get a protein, veggie, and starch at dinner. Think about the big picture here...

Hundreds of millions of kids watch/read/play violent pretend.

So few, that we actually know their NAMES, turn around and 'act on them'.

I agree with you. However, I think we are in the minority. Most of my 6 year old son's friends have watched many movies that I think are way too violent for their age. They had all watched all of the Star Wars movies before turning 4. My husband and I really restrict movie access to our first grader and he only plays video games on PBSKids.org. I absolutely will NOT allow him to watch violent movies or see violent video games, etc.

I am Catholic and I firmly believe that the United States does have a culture of death and we are only making it worse. Human life has no value in our general society and it is getting worse.

I disagree with M2CKC's assertion that her 7 and 5 year old can discern the difference between a movie and real life. My 6 year old, who is gifted, often asks if something on TV is "real" or not...At this age, they simply don't have the capacity to determine whether something is fiction or fact. This is well documented in educational literature. Parents who chose to ignore what we know about the cognitive development process of children are guilty of child neglect.

C.

I agree with you 1,000%
The media know that violence sells and they actively try to cover up research that proves your concerns are correct....it's ALL about money.
It disgusts me. My parents allowed me to watch whatever was on HBO when I was a kid...some of the movies gave me nightmares...scenes of war torture and stuff...I once had a vivid nightmare of my Elmo doll being tortured. It upset me for days. I am not going to allow my son to have a TV in his room. Or watch violent movies. Violent video games are banished from my house. I made my husband stash away his shoot em up games when our son was born. He had no problem with it...he's a gem.

I'm not Catholic, but the Catholics refer to our society as a "culture of death"...and what you are talking about is considered a part of it...and I think they are spot on in that regard.

Amy J has the perfect answer. And sorry to those who are sick of this subject. You must be anti gun control. All the anti gun control people on the internet are either keeping silent (like the pro gun senators who refused to come on Meet the Press) or are saying they're sick of talking about it. Well you know what? TOO BAD! We're sick of seeing innocent people, innocent BABIES being murdered every day in this country so senselessly. And for what? Because we have to preserve that almighty 2nd amendment.

ETA: It didn't come up for me when I first answered this question, but we would also do well to consider how we are raising our boys, the examples of male dominance and bravado they receive growing up, how we can engage them to be communicative about their feelings with us as parents, how we can take the stress of having to constantly prove their 'manliness' off our teens, etc and teach them to have healthy relationships while being their authentic selves. I think this is more to the crux of the problem than just media. When boys don't feel they have options for dealing with their emotions and challenges, sad things can happen.

First, I think you are being *very* assumptive when you say "nobody cares" about this topic. There are very many careful parents (some on this site) who choose not to expose their children to those violent movies, tv, games and other media which is inappropriate for a growing kid.

You are making an assumption that every parent in your audience has not only signed off on buying/allowing their kids to see/experience violence, but also doesn't care about the affect this has had on their children.

There have been plenty of parents who have addressed this in their own homes. If you want to address this further, start with the FTC. They're the agency that was gutted and deregulated during the past few decades. It used to be that these sorts of games and media and toys were not allowed to be advertised to children.

In our family's case, we have had to address death far earlier than we wanted to. When my son was four, a fellow preschooler's baby brother died, likely of SIDS. This was a sad introduction to death, however, we have handled it as compassionately and appropriately as we could have. A year and a half later and we are now only addressing the current shootings if they come up.

I don't fear telling my son about the shootings, if it does come up. We don't watch much tv during the daytime (usually never) and have had the radio off. (However, why give my sweet boy something to worry about if it hasn't fallen into his lap? He's a kindergartener himself. )We don't 'do' violent stories or media--he has told us he isn't ready for it yet, and we respect his comfort level. Yet, my son will still create violent play scenarios from his imagination. Here's a link to a good article by Bruno Bettelheim which explains the 'why' of this and why it is so common (and why it is linked to working through/mastering internal conflict):

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1987/03/the-i...

So, if you can't tell-- I do think about it. Yes, it is still there. However, I can't stick my kid in a bubble. He's going to *hear* about ninjas, Star Wars and Superheroes from friends at school. This is what they like to play. My best response is not to demonize this, but to explain that it's pretend, that real violence does hurt people, to not expose him to anything I don't think he can reasonably handle, and to continue to teach peace, positive problem-solving skills and empathy on a daily basis as real-life challenges arise.

I guess you struck a nerve with me because I'm not the only parent who cares deeply about this. I grew up in a violent home and have worked very, very hard for years to ensure that my son will not have to suffer the same upbringing. So assuming that all the parents are turning a blind eye and then acting horrified is pretty far from the truth. I haven't read any of the other comments, but I'm pretty sure that there are other parents who feel this way.

If you want more resources, try Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood, Empowered by Play, or TRUCE (Teachers Resisting Unhealthy Children's Entertainment). No one talks much about these entities, but they are on the front lines of fighting for children's social and emotional health and safety. These groups don't have the big money. Go complain to Disney for the violence and sexism in nearly every movie I've seen them make in the last 20+ years or earlier. (I may not be current with this as I don't get a kick out of Disney movies in general.) Or just do what I do-- very carefully pick and choose what your children watch and when. That is ALL I can do.

Because it's just not true. Growing up, I did and was exposed to all of that stuff mainly because I had two brothers. Never was it thought of as more than just a game. Not even sure if the thought of what it really even meant "to die" crossed our minds.

You know what I think desensitizes people? Drugs and alcohol...and mainly drug use. Drugs, mental illness, instablility and too much exposure to violence through news, video games, movies, books, etc.

This bit of info was posted in a group I read ... it isn't always guns .... check the year - and numbers killed....

Bath Township, Mich., May 18, 1927
Forty-five people were killed, including 38 elementary students, and 58 injured in three bombings by a school board treasurer enraged by higher taxes in the deadliest act of violence at a U.S. school.

It is about a combination of factors: of our anemically spiritual society, mental health care, and the availability of guns.