Nearly 5 Year Old Out of Control, Especially at School

Welcome to 5! this question, or something similar, is being asked almost weekly about lots of " nearly 5 year olds."

I don't have time to read all the responses, but I know lots of 4.5-5 year olds that say things like " my brain made me do it." This age is all about gaining control, and independence. It's a frustrating age for lots of kids, and they are striving for independent while feeling its frustrations. Lots of 5 year olds have impulse control problems, this doesn't mean something is wrong with them, it just means they are about 5.

I really like the book taking charge: caring discipline.,hazel recommended it, and it is terrific.

Why do you say he is not add or adhd? Have you had him tested? Everything you describe above fits in the parameters of extreme adhd. Having a child who was of the charts adhd by 6 years old I can relate to your frustration. I would make an appt for an evaluation. My son is extremely smart. Could rattle off answers to any question the teacher gave him even when he seemed to be paying no attention at all. While at the same time not realizing the kids in the next desk did not want to talk, play, be touched or interact. He had no understanding of physical boundaries. No idea that his fidgeting was distracting to others.a good solid schedule helps. Solid action= consequence helps. Sometimes medication is an option you need to explore. Not saying you need that but am saying you have described an adhd child. Good luck.

Ditto everyone who is suggesting having him evaluated by a medical specialist. You say he isn't ADHD (or, as I prefer to say, doesn't HAVE ADHD), but you're describing a child with the symptoms of ADHD. Kids with ADHD can sit and get some things done, but have a very hard time the rest of the day, just as you describe. "My brain made me do it" is a major, major neon sign that something's going on out of the norm.

Don't rule out this condition based on whatever preconceived notions you may have about it. You're dealing with extreme behavior. You recognize it's extreme in asking for help here, so please take our advice and get scheduled with a medical specialist like a child psychiatrist or neuropsychologist. If it really isn't ADHD, you can get that confirmed. What if it is or it's something else entirely? You'll be on your way toward helping your son with targeted solutions.

ETA: Just saw your follow-up and I'm so glad you're going to get him evaluated. ADHD is highly genetic, so the fact that your brother has it means your son is at greater risk for having it.

Have you had him evaluated or are you assuming he doesn't have other issues because he can sit and do his work? Please don't assume a diagnosis. If discipline isn't working, ask the school for an evaluation and make sure it's not an actual issue.

I know you say that he doesn't have ADD or ADHD because he can sit and do his work, but so can my son who has been diagnosed by 2 differenet specialists as having ADHD.

I wouldn't rule it out yet--in fact, the "my brain made me do it" comment has been made by my son several times since he was in preschool. My son also blurts out and antagonizes the other kids in any way he can.

I think it is worth mentioning to his pediatrician that he has had behavior problems at school, and see what your ped says. Sometimes it is difficult to be objective, as the parent, but if you truly want to find out what is going on with him, don't rule anything out right off the bat.

Good luck!

Have him tested. He may be immature or have ADD as the other Mom's have explained. ADD kids can concentrate for periods of time. Usually totally focused for video games! He may have learning differences or he may be too smart for his own good. Please don't punish him. Help figure out what is going on so that you can help him. Home needs to be a safe place because if he is ADD he will be annoying people and getting disciplined a lot! That kind of thing can hurt his self esteem. You want to foster his self esteem.

Praise each and EVERY time he does something good. Ignore annoying things that don't matter. I know you have to help him be disciplined, but you must be careful not to crush him trying to mold him into the norm. So get him diagnosed and then some professional advice on how to best help him.

Sometimes Adult ADD people are the most brilliant and talented!

My friend's son has multiple issues including ADHD, but he also has something else that relates to impulse control. I'm not sure if the impulse control can ever be separate from the ADHD diagnosis. He also says things like 'his brain made him..."

If you haven't officially had him evaluated, I would do it

It's good that you're wanting to address this BEFORE Kindergarten because the distraction really isn't fair to the teacher or the other kids and will hurt him socially. I don't see this behavior being tolerated very long in an elementary school environment.

I also agree with the others - have him evaluated by a professional. Until then you really don't know for sure if he has a treatable condition or something else.

Seems like this scenario plays out a lot - kid is advanced academically, but everywhere else they are struggling. Hopefully you can find something to help balance him out.

What does the teacher suggest? She must have experience dealing with other children like your son and should be able to offer good resources to help change the negative behaviors.

In my town, we have parenting classes offered through the school district that are open to parents of all age kids, including preschool. It does NOT mean you are a bad parent at all! It is simply a way to offer you new ideas and suggestions for dealing with negative behaviors. Can you see if your city offers anything similar? I have heard really good reviews from people that attended the ones near me. Please don't think I'm suggesting this because I think you're doing anything wrong - I certainly do not think that. I just mean that classes might help you get the strategies you are looking for.

In the meantime, what does he care about most? A certain toy? TV? An activity that he does? Try taking that #1 thing away and see if it makes a difference.

Also, do you do any kind of reward system with him? Rather than punishing him for negative behavior, try rewarding him for good behavior. Come up with a short list of things you want to change and reward him when he does well in those areas. My son (almost 6) has a chart with 10 rules on it. At the end of each day, we go over the chart and see how he did. If he did well on one, he earns a colored marble. If he did particularly poorly, he loses a marble. If it was neutral, nothing happens. When he earns a certain number of marbles, he gets a reward. Sometimes it is something from the Target $1 section, or it might be a special dessert (going out for ice cream), or sometimes I make him earn more marbles before a reward and then he gets a bigger prize (like a special lego set). Start small - 10 marbles for a reward, then 20, then 50, etc.

A few of my son's rules:
1. Listen to parents or any adult taking care of you
2. No fighting with younger sister
3. Being nice to his sister
4. Speaking nicely - say nice words and say them in a nice voice
5. Don't be bossy

He has a few others, but those are important ones. It works for us. He is mostly a great kid overall, but definitely can act out and he acts better when he knows he can earn the marbles.

Good luck!!

Im taking it he is in pre-k? Def do not enroll him in kindergarten as he is not mature enough and needs more time before entering the school system. Instead of taking things away is there anything he really wants? So maybe if you can behave in school this week and you come home with a good report for that week then you can go out to eat at his favorite place, or go to a movie or something. Then extend the amount of time he is expected to be good. Talk to him about how to tell his brain no if it is what is making him do the bad things.

Cool, I read your swh, and I think that sounds great. He may be more on the hyperactive side anyway. My first is an awesome kid but a little while back we were pulling our hair out with some of his antics! So I found a doctor who put up a lot of the signs for ADHD and also just the HD side on his website. My son didn't have one thing on the AD side, but on the hyper side he had every single one. We have taken the approach to have him in martial arts, keep him busy and just use lots of patience in our dealings with him and we really do our best to just be very consistent in discipline, but also taking lots of time to play with him and laugh with him, it helps! That is where we are at with it. So I think learning more will help, it sounds like he is a bright kid who needs direction. Good luck!!

I assume you are talking about pre-school. Could be he just is not ready. Sounds very immature. Is he going to K in Sept. What do his teachers have to say. Does he socialize with other children outside of school? If so, how is his behavior. Might want to have him evaluated at some point. He might just need time. I would try a reward type of system with his teacher.

How do you know he does not have AD(H)D? Part of AD(H)D can be hyperconcentration on something a child is interested in. My daughter can draw, paint or read with such focus a circus could be going on around her and she would never notice. When she's doing her math homework though, a pin can drop in the neighbour's yard and distract her.
It might be a good time to consult a professional to get some ideas about what you might try and what might be going on for him. If nothing else, it would make you feel like you had some support and that alone can make all the difference.

Not sure whether the class can accommodate your child this way. . .

I remember in the lower grades that children who finished their task could turn in their work to the teacher and go to an enrichment center and do some self study. So if all the kids had to practice writing the letter A, and little Johnny completed his worksheet/s, he could raise his hand, quietly turn in his work to the teacher, then go to the back of the room where he could quietly color in pictures of things which started with the letter A. If Sally finished early she could go to another table where she might quietly make a collage with things which started with the letter A. When the bulk of the class was ready to move on, Johnny, Sallie, and whoever else finished early would join everyone for more instruction. This strategy kept clever kids from being disruptive/ unruly.

If the classroom isn't set up for that kind of supplementation, come up with a list of quiet games he can play by himself in his head. 1. count to 100. 2. alphabetize his cousins. 3. name all the characters in all his favorite shows. 4. think of all the animals he knows which start with A. 5. practice lacing his shoes.

I am afraid I might have thought picking up dog poo with rubber gloves awesome too if I were a pre-school boy. Good try though.

Good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

Hi A.-
This sounds like you are talking about my almost 5 year old,
Other than the fact that my son is very remorseful after. Is yours? That's a key component here. Everyone is mixed about my son having ADHD but the neuro says no. Since I am a few months ahead of you in this process, here is what I would recommend:
1. Get him into a ped. Behavior therapist asap. I take him once every two weeks and I go alone once every two weeks so we can talk about him more candidly without him listening (since our boys are smart they're listening to everything)
2. You need a behavior chart- the therapist can help you create one and you need to be VERY consistent with it.
3. Get him into a neuro for an eval.
4. There are some great books out there for kids- we read them every night- calm down in anger, how to be a friend, etc. check amazon for kids books that would be a fit for him.

I am on top of him, the teacher gives me daily updates, i have learned to become extremely consistent in my parenting style and i have had two monhs of tremendous improvement.
Good luck. I know how upsetting this is!!

He needs to have the reinforcement for being good in class in school, from the teacher. It has little impact on his to wait for several hours or days to receive a reward. I think the teacher could be the best resource for this too.

If he's in pre-K, please, please do not send him to K until this is dealt with whether it's via a diagnosis (if that's where things end up) or via time and a lot of behavioral work on your part at home. I second getting him evaluated but either way you'll need him to be ready for K -- that does not mean being perfect, but it does mean being in much better control than what you describe. Meanwhile, for yourself and your husband or SO, be sure that both of you adults get a lot more information on behavior in kids his age, so you understand better what he's doing (for instance, of course he thought picking up dog poop was terrific -- he's a four-year-old boy.... so next time a discipline has to really be something he doesn't want and won't find fun....)

If he does not have ADHD, you then could move to having him see a play therapist to determine if it's just a lack of maturity -- which it may well be -- or if there's something else going on. When he says he "thinks of doing rude things...and doesn't care," that could just be kid talk or it could be a sign of other problems. At the least, if it's not ADHD, talk to a family counselor to get ideas about ways to work with him effectively on his behavior.

And do not hesitate to hold him back from starting K next fall. Many kids need extra tiime to mature, and if he also has a condition on top of that, you all need time to adjust to meds or whatever else you do about it. Kindergarten now is much, much more like first grade when we were kids -- a LOT is expected of them, and being in control most (not all! but most) of the time is important, or he'll end up repeating K.