Marriage Problems. Advice?

Wow, staying with someone because he threatened self-harm is a bad way to live, no wonder you resent him, you feel you have been threatened to stay in this marriage. It's like being held hostage. Is he willing to attend marriage counseling? He definitely needs to see a therapist for his depression, manipulation, and his feeling that he is too good to work, independent from a marriage counselor. That is ridiculous and unrealistic, not to mention, irresponsible. He sees the debt and is putting all the burden on you, for YEARS? We aren't talking a layoff or an illness here, it's just a desire to be his own boss, turn his nose up and everything, and that is just arrogance. You two are supposed to be like a team shouldering the burden, it should not be 100% on someone else 100% all the time, unless this was something you both agreed on, and your post says that isn't the case.

I have friends who are musicians, they play around town, record music, and have friends in the industry, with the exception of one, they ALL have day jobs -- one works in IT, the other one in landscaping, the other one in the restaurant business...the only one who doesn't is one who makes soundtracks for the entertainment industry -- commercials, movies, TV shows, and he works pretty hard at it, composing up to 20 songs a day, working over 10 hours and spending thousands on music equipment. I know a few who have become music teachers or opened their own music shops, no shame in teaching kids to play music. I kind of can relate though, my ex-husband refused to take jobs that were "beneath him" in pay grade, lost his condo in the process, and then threatened self-harm when I tried leaving him. I left him and guess what? He is alive and kicking, remarried, too. Empty threats, I realized, when I ended up believing what B said below, that the responsibility was not mine and I should not feel guilty if he did follow through.

As to the kids being devastated about you two getting a divorce, trust me, kids know more than they let on. I am sure they are feeling the tension and resentment and hearing arguing on a daily basis, they aren't deaf or blind and can pick up on things. You have also had several trial separations, so they sort of have grown accustomed to this and can adapt. I am sure they will manage better than you think. Just because you get a divorce doesn't mean he stops being a part of their life or no longer is a good dad. You can even do things with them together, if he is amenable to an amicable split. Do you love your husband? That is the most important question to answer. If you do, you will work on your marriage because you love this man and want to make it work. Get counseling as a couple, in that case. If not, don't let his manipulation keep you around, as your resentment will grow and you will live with regrets if you allow yourself to be held back due to a threat of self-harm looming over your head. Don't let that be the only reason you stay.

The thing that stands out to me about your post/question, is your expectations of your marriage. I find with my friends (and myself), when we are disappointed and feel let down in our marriages from time to time, it's when we're not communicating our needs clearly or we feel that somehow - someone dropped the ball. Then you need to figure out how to get back on board so you're both trying to reach the same goal ultimately. Figure out what that is.

For your husband, he wanted to be a musician. You must have realized that meant he wouldn't have a steady 9-5 job. My good friend is married to one. In order to realize his dream, he had to give up his full time job and pursue his dream. She has the steady government job. She accepts this. It means less time for her as the mom. That was the plan.

A friend of mine is a photographer. To pursue her dream (she realized this in her 40's) she left her steady job, her husband encouraged her to, and he took the load. She had a few rough years - no income, and she's steadily building up her business. He supports her. It means no trips, etc. for now.

I had an illness. My husband shouldered the load. This kind of thing happens.

I guess resentment isn't helpful - is what I'm trying to say. You need to remember what you agreed to. What did you agree to when you set out? If he's totally dropping the ball, and he's not the man you married - and he's manipulating you and being a total jerk - then why are you still with him? However, if you knew he had this dream, and that he wasn't a 9-5 guy and that your dream and his didn't match and yet, you married him anyways - that's on you.

Then cut him free - don't expect him to divorce you - don't make him be the bad guy. I don't think that's fair. You said you gave him an out. That's being very passive. So he did something - self harm (threatened to) because that's another kind of passive thing. It all sounds like no one is just saying what they want. You're in blame mode.

I think couples counseling (not just on your own) and say what you want at this point. If it's not the same thing - face that - and move on. You may have thought you could change him.

Keep in mind, some artists, photographers, actors, etc. do have a full, steady family life. You say he's a great dad and helps out fully around the house. He just isn't a 9-5 guy (although he was for the last few years, until 3 months ago - and you supported his decision to leave that job). So he's not all bad. He just wants his dream. Lots of people don't have a dream - and it's pretty amazing he has one. I'm just trying to say - it takes a unique marriage to have this work. It does mean you have the steady job. I guess you just need to recognize that. Do you want that role? If not, then leave. Don't wait for him to.

It's hard, but you will be the one to break up the family - I think a lot of people don't want that responsibility. It's hard to do that to your kids - and it sounds like that's what you are struggling with. Talk to your counselor about that. Is that why you don't find her/him helpful?

Just my thoughts - I could be way off base.

He didn't want to lose you because you support him. If you two divorce he will have to get a job and pay child support.
He doesn't love his kids; he only sees them as an extension of himself. The kids love him because they don't know any different and he's their emotional equal. He's just a little boy in a grown up body.

My dad was not a good parent but one thing I learned from him is this: DON'T EVER SUPPORT A MAN!! If he can't get his a$$ out of bed in the morning and go to work and take care of his family he isn't worth keeping.

Honey, leave him. Your life will be so much better without him.

G.

Your husband used you and took advantage of you by stating he would self-harm. Don't let it happen again.

Your husband needs help. Mental help.

Did he expect to be like the Rolling Stones, Journey, Styx or some other HUGE band that's been around for a long time? Sorry - but those chances are low. Yeah - there are a LOT of bands out there - but not ALL are successful.

He needs to learn how to make it on his own. Without your financial help. Money is the one of the major fights in any relationship - not just marriage. However - screaming at each other isn't going to solve it. You need to sit down with him and show him what is going on. It won't be an easy conversation. He NEEDS to see what his not having a job is costing the family unit.

If he blames YOU for his lack of success? that's a HUGE red flag. It sounds as if you have supported him throughout his ups and downs.Now he needs to see the problems and own them. YOU charged and so did he - so it's an US/WE problem not a "YOU DID THIS TO ME" problem.

If you guys don't think of yourselves as a team? Your marriage isn't going to last.

It kind of sounds like he wasn't really ready for marriage and kids, but because he didn't want to lose you (?) he went along with it. And of course he hurt and disappointed you (did he cheat?) because he was trying to be something he wasn't.
Of course now he has children he loves and a home with you paying the bills and probably feels depressed about it all.
But really, these are HIS issues, not yours. The fact that he threatened to harm himself is incredibly manipulative. I realize he's the father of your kids and you feel some sort of responsibility here but really you can't and shouldn't be responsible for another person's mental health. I imagine it's like having three kids at this point, am I right?
I hope you find a better therapist, though maybe she's telling you things you don't want to hear and that's why you feel like she's no help...

It sounds like you are carrying a huge burden. You're seeing a counselor, which is good, but you aren't happy, which is bad. So yes, you're right to seek someone else. The problem is, he's not seeing someone and he needs to get far more help than he's getting.

You're carrying the load, but you resent it, and you let him know. So he's well aware of your opinions, and while you shouldn't necessarily hide that from him, it's unreasonable to think that just telling him (or fighting about it) will help change someone whose in as much trouble as he is.

He's also manipulative - threatening self-harm to get you to capitulate? So I'd disagree with your assessment that he's a great father. He's not. He's threatening to take his children's father away, and he's failing at keeping the family out of debt. You're also not where you should be in this category - while you say you are making sure the bills are paid, you aren't. You're mortgaging your children's future by allowing credit card debt to pile up. You don't have a plan, and this has been going on for 13 years (although maybe it has gotten worse in the last few). You think divorce would be awful for the kids, but how would it be worse than a separation that ends with a return to the same old resentment, fights, and financial crisis. No matter how much he makes them laugh or how well he plays board games with them, he's not a good father. And you're bringing a chronically depressed person back into the house where you harbor long-time resentments you've held on to. How is that a good thing for these children?

I'd suggest a very serious sit-down with a financial counselor to figure out what you can really afford and get yourselves on a budget. That means cutting up that credit card (or cards) and simply not using them to buy things. You have to find more ways to economize. If necessary, you will have to take your husband off your accounts so he cannot derail new plans.

I don't know if he can work or hold on to any job he gets. That could be his personality, or his mental illness. I'm not qualified to assess that. I do know that no one can sit around hoping to make it in the music world (or any other world) if he's not willing or able to work at it. But you are sitting around (well, going to work, but stilll....) hoping things will magically get better too. So you each blame the other one! That's not sustainable! And continuing to do the same thing for 13 years and hope there will be a different result - well, isn't that the definition of insanity?

Sounds like your man is a manipulative mooch. He is refusing to support his family and you by his outright refusal to get a job. You are letting him get away with this behavior! It’s not healthy for you. Yes, you should resent him! Yes, you are unappreciative. Go and get a real man.
Let him mooch off someone else.
Your kids are seeing a bad example with a Father who is acting so childish. He has played his victim musician card for too long gone.

(My sisters boyfriend is County Musician and a businessman man running a million dollar company, he’s single dad to 2 little girls.)

Musicians can have real jobs!

Threatening to harm oneself in order to convince a partner not to leave a relationship is emotionally abusive. Don't put up with that. If that happens again, I would tell him if he's intends to harm himself, you will call for help, because he needs it.

It comes down to, what does he want, and what to you want? Does he just want to do whatever until he makes it big in music? And do you want a partner with more stability than dreams? If you want different things, if have different values and goals, how is your marriage going to work?

If you are both just going to counseling individually, consider going to a marriage counselor to at least see if you can work it out, or if you need to face reality that you cannot.

I'm so sorry. Honestly, I understand that your husband has depression, but he also needs a kick in the butt. I couldn't live with this if I were in your shoes.

If you are going to stay with him, perhaps what you need is to do is cut every expense that isn't absolutely 100% necessary. Take all the spending away from him, including credit cards. Give him cash every week just as an allowance. When he figures out that he will never have any money to spend, he'll get a job and show up. And if he just stays home with the kids, then you will at least not end up in the poor house.

It's not fair to have to police him like this, but he is really not caring how you feel, and you just have to take charge if you're going to stay married to him.

He landed a job teaching music and didn’t show up on his first day??? Oh wow, that would have made my blood boil!!! He had no idea how lucky he was to find that job!! So what if it wasn’t a musician gig, it was still in his field!!!! Who does he think he is, Steven Tyler??? He is so delusional to think he’ll be the next Steven Tyler!!!! And to turn down a great job teaching music (MUSIC - something that he LOVES), is beyond my comprehension!!

You need to finally divorce this lazy bum!! If he self harms, that is his choice. You can do better! Good luck!

I think you need to get your ducks in a row.
Get an attorney.
Tell him what you need him to do to stay in the marriage - get a job and see a marriage counselor.
If he refuses, it’s time to get out.
His mental issues are his.

If he suffers from depression and isn’t going to therapy weekly in combo with a prescription, this problem will not go away. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to take action. You have done your part and then some. Staying in the marriage for the children is making your life miserable. You are financially independent, which is a great plus. My mother left my father when I was in 8th grade and seeing her happy made the split very worth it. I wish you the best of luck, and hope that your husband gets the help he needs. Living in this society that rewards people based on how much one makes/has can be very hard for people that can’t fit into that mold and can leave one feeling like a constant failure. Perhaps this is contributing to your husband’s depression. You are a great wife and mom.