Love and Logic Help Needed for Wandering

Updated on April 14, 2009
A.L. asks from Littleton, CO
18 answers

Today, my 3.5-yo daughter wandered off. We were getting ready to leave on an errand, and I had asked my daughter to put on her shoes and get her coat while I was packing up the baby (2 weeks old) in the carseat. I went into the other room to get the diaper bag and put on my shoes, and when I came out my daughter was gone. At first I thought she went into her room to get a toy or something (she frequently takes one on our errands) so I looked for her inside. She's NEVER gone out without me, so it didn't occur to me right away to look outside. So, it turns out she went out the apartment door, down the hall, out the building door, down the block and around the corner. I spent about 5 frantic minutes searching and calling for her (it felt like much longer). She did not come when I called her the first two times I went outside, finally came when I started running down the street, yelling and crying.

The hiding and refusing to come when called started 2 weeks ago when we brought the baby home, but she's never left the house before. I've been recovering from a c-section and so am still moving slowly, so that's played into the defiance thing because I can't pick her up, remove her from the situation, etc. I do understand that this is probably normal behavior given the circumstances but I just need to know how to deal with it in a constructive manner. After a moment of hugging her and crying, I did use the Love and Logic technique of letting her know that there would be a consequence, but that I needed some time to figure it out.

I am already looking into childproofing options, like a doorknob cover. We are limited in what we can do because it's an apartment and we can't affix anything to the door, but I'm certainly open to suggestions. Thanks in advance for your help; I'm sleep-deprived and not thinking creatively at this point.

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So What Happened?

Thanks, everyone, for your input. We're looking into childproofing options, and have incorporated not wandering into our talks about safety, proper behavior, etc. She's doing much better and understands the boundaries. I didn't mention in my original post that we'd had company at the time for three weeks (and staying in her room) --- my daughter's behavior has really improved since our company left, and our routine is settling back to normal. Again, thank you, I really appreciate the support.

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K.I.

answers from Spokane on

A.,
I am not familiar with the "Love and logic" techniques, however I have one story to share....When we were at the mall one time my 3 yr old son started to wonder away abit farther and farther after repeated instruction to stay close to us...my husband and I told him one last time to stay close and when he didn't listen we watched as he rounded the corner and peaked around watching him as he moved further and further away...soon enough he stopped to turn and find us and as soon as he realized he could no longer see us, he got worried. We waited just long enough that we both agreed he had learned how scary it was not to be able to find us, and then we went and got him. Making sure to have a nice conversation about it with him, right then and there.---We haven't EVER had problems with him wondering away since!

We haven't had to use this "technique" with my youngest two but when the time comes we will!

If you find yourself in a department store and she wonders away, just watch for the moment her little face realizes she cant find you....she will have learned something.

K.

3 moms found this helpful
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M.P.

answers from Portland on

I really like Karma's suggestion to follow her without letting her know you're there. I've infrequently done that with my grandchildren. The difficulty in doing that is that my granddaughter is fearless. Even at that age she would find a clerk to help her find me. At 8 she still likes to hide from me. My daughter also liked to hide at that age. Perhaps physically leaving Mom is a part of learning to seperate?

For the hiding, I stay in the same department. She gets bored when I don't look for her and comes out of hiding. I was too anxious to do that until she started school.

I also agree that if you didn't give her a consequence within 10-15 minutes it's too late now. I disagree with putting her in her room for 1-3 hours. This has no meaning to a child this age and is pure punishment at any age. Our goal as parents is to teach using methods that actually show our children how their actions have consequences. Putting them in their room most likely will make her and older children angry which then adds to your problem.

I try to use Love and Logic. Their ideas make sense to me. For those who aren't familiar with it a very shortened explanation related to this question is that the consequence relates to what you want them to learn. And you deliver the consequence in a loving way.

Sometimes I cannot think of a logical consequence. When they're disruptive for any reason and don't stop when politely asked to stop I do send my grandchildren to their room. They can come out when they can be good company. I didn't think of that until I saw my daughter use it.

When I can't think of a consequence such as in your situation I then find a way for everyone to be safe. In this case I suggest that you find a way to keep her in the room with you. Use a room with a door and shut the door so you'll hear her leave. Or get her busy doing something in a room with a door and again shut the door. You might even put a small bell on the door. Tape the little bell to the upper frame so that when the door is opened it rings. It is a bit of a hassle since you have to move the bell back inside each time you enter.

When my granddaughter was that age she left the daycare facility while her mother was talking with an employee. The day care was just a few blocks from my house and she thought she could walk to my house. She walked the opposite way. The employee walked one way and my daughter walked the other way and fortunately they found her within a few blocks of the center. She got part of the "stranger danger" lesson then.

Not everyone is kind. There are people who want to hurt you. There are also people who really like little girls like you and they might pick you up and take you home with them. I'd miss you so much. I don't want you to be kidnapped. After this discussion that started with Mama telling her how scared she was, Mama reinforced the idea that Monet had to always be with Mama, Grandma, teacher etc. by answering questions which Monet asked. The telling her she must always be with one of us was repeated and repeated.

Monet, as far as I know and remember, has never ran away from an adult while they were outside. Every once in awhile she would tell me she didn't want to be kidnapped as she stayed close to me. This didn't hold up in Fred Meyer where she and I shopped frequently. She felt safe there and no amount of telling her that she could be kidnapped in a store convinced her. I tell you this because walking out of the apartment and down the street is just the beginning.

I started putting a blanket on the bottom of the shopping cart and giving her something to do worked until she got too big. If I didn't do that I had her help me push the cart by putting her between the cart and me.

Running away and/her hiding is such a fun game for her she still tries to hook me from time to time but rarely now. I found that I could take the fun out of the game if I didn't respond at all. I'd follow her or look in the rounders. When she saw me and would come out of hiding or see me and come back to me, I wouldn't say anything. Once she realized I wasn't playing she'd stop.

I think that your daughter most likely left because she was exploring. At that age some kids have no fear. Perhaps you could walk the neighborhood with her telling her that it's only OK to walk around outside when she's with an adult. She can explore with you.

At first I questioned the wiseness of putting fear in Monet's mind. She talked about not wanting to be kidnapped for quite awhile and I wondered if that was too heavy a concept. After some time of thinking about it I decided that kids do need to know that some things are not safe. Saying something is not safe is not enough enformation for my very energetic and inquisitive granddaughter. Even at 3 she wanted to know why it wasn't safe.

I think that in many safety issues just letting the child know that you will not let her go out on her own and using some safety measures is a consequence. She has lost your trust in that situation. Perhaps that's why it's a consequence.

As a preschooler, my granddaughter left their apartment and made it to the lobby at which time an employee called me. It seemed that having a stranger stop her and give her a bit of a lecture was enough. I don't think she left again. I did make sure the dead bolt was always locked and much to my surprise she couldn't figure out why the door wouldn't open.

I have two devices to put on lever style doors that I would be glad to mail to you if you have that style of "knob." They're in unopened packages; brand Safety First, I think.

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I.G.

answers from Seattle on

This is a hard age to add a sibling... so while her defiance is a perfectly normal reaction, you will still have to deal with the wandering.

At this age consequences need to be immediate, so if you haven't come up with it yet, I'd simply forgo it for this instance.

I am not a big fan of keeping the door locked, when you're inside (can be a problem in fire) but the likelyhood of your wandering toddler getting hit by a car might be higher than getting trapped in a fire.
So for the meanwhile keep the door locked! Leave the key by the door (hang up high) so it's right there in an emergency.

Instead of locking the door you could get one of those plastic latches, they affix to the door and wall with an adhesive strip. You can buy removeable strips, so they don't leave a mark. They will come flying off if someone REALLY tries to pull/push the door open, but they should be enough to keep your toddler in.

Just remind yourself that this, too, will pass!
Congrats on the new baby.

1 mom found this helpful

M.B.

answers from Seattle on

Hi A.,

I feel your pain, and fear. When my son was about 18 months old we were in a shoe store. I looked down at a pair of shoes for him for 3 seconds and he disappeared on me. He was three aisles over, and halfway towards the front of the store. I swear my heart stopped when I looked up and he wasn't in sight.

Does your front door have a deadbolt that your daughter can't reach? That would be the easiest way to keep her in the house/apt until you're ready to go. I don't like those balls that go over the doors, but that's because I can't figure out how to open the door with it on. Or maybe have her stand in X spot and wait for you. I'm not real familiar with love and logic techniques, but she should have been punished immediately. At three years old she doesn't equate punishment today with what she did wrong yesterday. That is too long a separation from infraction to punishment.

When my kids start trying to wander off, especially in a parking lot I make them put their hands on the car and wait for me. My kids are 5 1/2 and 2. Even my two year old is compliant with this rule.

You must be firm. You must be consistent. You must be strong (she'll test everything).

Hope this helps,
Melissa

1 mom found this helpful
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W.C.

answers from Seattle on

At her age the love and logic needs to be almost immediate because she will have forgotten the incident by the time you calm you figure something out.

That said, I would like to help you figure something out to prevent something out to prevent further incidents. Get one of those lock that you can put way up high and she can't reach and figure out, even if she could reach, to use at all times.

Then for going out--get one of bungie walking cords for her. Seriously. They will ease her arm and your worry. She can look around and gaze to her heart's content, without feeling pulled by you. You know where she is with out feeling you have to continually pulling at her. Everybody wins.

Now for my funny story. My son at age three went wandering. We lived against a wooded area with a ravine on one side. On another side he had a friend who lived on a "gentleman's" farm. There was a black steer with horns. (the steer who got loose and used to chase me around my yard!) My son went to look at the steer.

I never heard anything. Just after I began calling for my son, he came back in tears rolling down his dusty face. (it was summer) All he could say at the time was the cow looked at him. Ha! He never wandered again!

It is too bad you don't have a scary steer you could borrow and put in your neighborhood.

But seriously consider the walking band. It will help.

1 mom found this helpful
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D.B.

answers from Richland on

I agree with a lot of these posts, but if your landlord will not allow you to fix a chain on your door, you could buy the refrigerator lock at target. It has sticky stuff on both sides and is meant to go around the corner of your fridge, but could totally go from the door jam onto the door. It has a clip kinda like a carseat that you have to press to open. So this could work if you cannot do the chain. I cannot find it online, but I did buy it there. good Luck!

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M.H.

answers from Seattle on

Maybe your apartment manager would be okay with a chain on your door, which you can close whenever you are home. This is what it takes to keep our girl inside. I think its worth asking.

It seems like your daughter needs some extra re-assurance right now because of the new baby. Perhaps (in addition to whatever else you come up with) giving some more positive instruction - 'Will you show mommy which shoes you want to wear?', 'Can you help mom get her jacket?', 'Will you play with your sibling while i put on my shoes?', along with lots of praise and hugs when she helps, will keep her engaged?
Or, maybe, with the hiding, 'Why don't you choose your own special hiding place, and then we'll fix it up all comfy with a pillow and blanket for you'... (Then you might know what her place was - probably would still need to let her come out on her own terms, but at least you could see if she was there easily.)

Good luck!!

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J.R.

answers from Seattle on

I look forward to hearing all the feedback on curtailing that behavior.

We are renting as well and we affixed chain locks/bar locks to the 3 doors in this house. I would talk to the landlord and explain that either you are going to affix them or they can send someone but you need another lock.

Good luck, I know its frustrating!

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S.S.

answers from Seattle on

I think a child-proof doorknob is probably your answer for the apartment. My two-year-old son has a bad habit of running away too and since I'm almost six months pregnant with twins, I can't move fast enough to catch him at all. He has run around a strip mall to the back, run down the middle of the road, everything. I try to explain to him that this isn't safe and he needs to stay with mommmy, but every once in a while he gets it in his head to start running again. I'm not going to be able to chase him at all pretty soon, so we've bought a harness. I think this is a good consequence for getting him to stick around. If he doesn't stay with mommy, then on goes the harness and so on. He can have another chance the next time, but I don't think I'm going to mess around with chances. Also, at your daughter's age, you may be able to use a reward system - say a few jelly beans if she sticks around the doorway and stays with you, etc. Or a sticker chart or something like that. I don't think my son will understand that just yet, but at 3 and a half, your daughter should get it. Good luck!

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G.D.

answers from Seattle on

hi! that is very scary. we had that happen at our house too. you can buy simple plastic deals that go over the door handle, making it impossible for little hands to open but adults can do it, by squeezing it firmly. they don't have glue or any screws or anything, you can remove them in a snap.

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C.A.

answers from Portland on

Oh I hear your pain, frustration and tears! I have two toddlers and just brought a baby home - though I didn't have a c-section I kinda got messed up other ways. They didn't deal so well with him at first but here's a few ideas:

1. Get the plastic thing that fits over the door handle - these really work and are an easy solution to keeping her inside. Having lived in apartments with wandering toddlers this was the solution that worked.

2. Some easy and VERY helpful things for positive attention. I have my kiddos help me out now. When I switch loads of laundry they stand and put it down in the dryer. I don't have to bend over and they get to help. A sticker chart is a cool reward system for helping out too. So a sticker for each helpful thing!

3. Let her help with the baby. My kids now love holding him - they sit on the couch (with me next to to them) and I put a pillow next to them and lay him in their lap. They love it! I also let them put his pacifier in his mouth, check on him when he's in his bassinet, and put his blanket on him. They get so thrilled to help.

3. Defiance is really hard and a sign that she wants some of her own choices. In the morning ask her which cereal she wants (only pick two for her to choose from - she doesn't want that many choices). Or ask her to pick out her own shirt for the day. My son is at this stage and our day goes so much smoother when I give him a little control in little choices. I have to be firm if he's defiant anyhow and use timeouts to help him calm down. Then we discuss what to do differently in the future.

I know it's hard to think right now - I am sleep deprived too at this point! But you can do it and she can learn to accept your new little guy. You are truly doing awesome and believe me - most people have kids that wander at this age. It happens and you aren't a bad mom at all! Check out my scissor story - it really happens.

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M.W.

answers from Seattle on

Check your lease agreement (or call the manager) about installing a chain latch at the upper part of the door... Most leasing companies/landlords will allow small holes (size of a screw), if they are repairable/fillable. It would be one small thing you can do as prevention while you are working on the Love and Logic aspect of it.

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A.D.

answers from Portland on

A.,
Both of our sons did this too. Fortunately we don't live in the city, so we weren't worried about strangers. What we did worry about was where they could be. (We have 10 acres of land)
We installed a slide boldt at the top of the door where they couldn't reach even with a step stool.

Although you aren't "allowed" to fasten anything to the door, I would STRONGLY suggest that you get the manager to allow you to do something, even a chain lock.

I see this situation as a potential law suit should anything happen to your child. The owners of the apartments could be liable if they didn't allow you to make the necessary changes to keep your child safe.

If the owner has objections because of fire danger and not being able to get in, suggest the chain lock. Your child could still be contained from wandering and if there is a fire or other emergency workers can easily cut the chain if they need to get in.

Oh, now that our boys are older and don't wander off, we have removed the lock from the door. :-)

Best of luck.

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M.L.

answers from Seattle on

There are some pretty inexpensive door locks at Target that can go over a knob type or lever type handle. They aren't a permenant install, but are pretty easy to get on. Some work better than others in my opinion. If only for safety issues, that's where I'd start. She really does probably need some help adjusting to having another child in the family. I'm sure there are threads here to help with that! :)

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B.Y.

answers from Seattle on

I love love and logic, until I had a child it would not work with...... LOL
Ok, so the way to do this is to shorten her "leash" So she has to stay within eye site of you until she can prove to you that she is able to leave your site.
This might be harder on you.
Good luck

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J.C.

answers from Seattle on

Wow- A. how awful for you- my heart just aches thinking of those 5 minutes ( which most of us Moms have had at LEAST once - I did-- in a huge ''Expo" event in Vancouver, Canada - when my youngest was 4 -- God help us all) -- I'd really encourage you to make the consequence really painful for her -- stay in her room a LONG time ( maybe even an hour ) - and why???? Because children who dont '''come back!!!''' can get so badly hurt even the doctors and hospitals can't help them. ( I think that's clear enough that she'd understand without being too graphic) So- if she wont mind- the only way to keep her safe is keep her in one room- there ya' go. AND I'd encourage you to say to her ( WITH YOUR HUSBAND - whatever you say- it needs to be a duet
'''' so, we'll try --------------- ( one hour - 3 hours - gulp -whatever time you decide ) - BUT if that doesn't work- you'll have already USED your one hour lesson- the next lesson would have to be at least 2 hours -.'''' AND STICK TO IT. My then 4 year old grandson was rude and disobedient and one Saturday he went through time out after time out (which I did in his room- as he used that time to really calm down and process his anger) - so after the 4th or 5th- I sighed and said ''' Well, Brian - it's a nice day- I would hate for you to be in your room ALL day- but we can do that ''' he replied '''' YOU WOULDNT!!!''' to which I said calmly-- ''sure I would-- I don't have to have naughty behaviour here- this is MY house''' -- He straighted up for months and months.

Blessings dear heart
J.
aka- Old Mom

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M.J.

answers from Spokane on

When my son was four, I brought home my newborn twins. He stated doing the same thing to me that your daughter is doing. He would wander off or hide except he would not come when I called him.

One afternoon, he hide on my neighbors patio, under their BBQ (which had a cover). He heard me yell for him. He heard me crying. He wouldnt come. I finally had to call the police. This made him come out. The officer took him aside and gave him a little talk. He never wandered off again.

I am not sure what the officer said to him but maybe you need to hunt one down and have them talk to her about personal safety. It worked for us.

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L.D.

answers from Seattle on

Scarry stuff!!!!! I use to sleep walk right OUT THE DOOR as a child. My mom put these things that go over the hinges of the door. It's a metal tube and slide over the outside of the hinge (on the inside of the house of course) and prevents you from opening the door. Put it on a high one so she can't reach it. The hardware store has them.

Good luck
L.

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