Jobhunt, Ethics, What Do Do? Need to Decide by Next Week...

It sounds like any other educational institution that requires a tuition. Think of the number of people who attend college (with financial aid) and don't make the grade. Would you really expect the school to refund their money? Nope. It's not like they can "unpay" the instructor or their other overhead costs because the student couldn't meet expectations.

Vocational schools are great for students who know what they want to do (skill-based learning). Students who are "on-the-fence" regarding their job selection would probably struggle with these intesive skill-driven programs.

I'm sorry, but this is just like any other school, college, or university. It is the same, if students don't get the financial aid, then they can't afford to go. If a student register's for classes, then they are responsible for the tuition for those classes, regardless if they go. Finanical aid pays for those classes before the student is given any "left overs" to cover other stuff like books, internet, housing, etc. Whatever refund the student gets is theirs to do with as they please, but it is supposed to go to school
related expenses. If a student fails at a university they are still responsible for the bill and the student loans they incurred, so really, I don't see any reason to have ethical "twinges". I mean, you may not like the system, but it is the same system at all higher ed places. Are they moneymills? Maybe, but not any more than any other school. I hope that helps!

You are right that those admissions reps ARE like sales people, it's their job to "sell" the school to potential students.
I don't see anything ethically wrong with it as long as it is a quality program that you believe in, and as long as you are very honest with the potential students about financial aid and how any loans will ultimately be their responsibility, whether they complete the degree or not.
If the job requires you to mislead, make empty promises or be dishonest in any way, I would steer clear, you won't feel good about that :(

check Better Business Bureau, do a google search, etc....

good luck

I'm not sure of the details, but it was related to what you are asking. People from Everest used to come and speak to our seniors (I teach at a high school in your area), and now they are forbidden by our district to come speak any longer. It has something to do with luring students to their school with false promises and taking their money. Like I said, I don't know the details, but I'm pretty sure it was in the news. It was a big scandal a couple of years ago, so you can probably find info on it if you look for it.

Good luck with your job search!

I would suggest googling the school's name. There has been a lot of focus lately on for-profit schools and their practices and results. Some schools stand up fine under scrutiny and some have not. Some have been found to accept (sell to) students who really don't have the ability to succeed and graduate. Some spend an inordinate amount of money on advertising instead of instruction. And some have very low graduation and/or job placement percentages. Another reason this has gotten attention is that student loans given to people who don't graduate are at a higher risk of default.

So, if our government guarantees millions of dollars worth of loans to students who were sold into programs that they aren't qualified for, or into programs that don't lead to well-paying jobs, then the school profits pretty directly from large amounts of federal money. If this profit goes to really high CEO/presidents' pay and advertising and not into educating people, then that's a problem and our government is left holding the bag.

So, I would carefully research this specific school so you can be sure that what you are promoting is an ethical service for these potential students. Some schools that happen to be for profit, as I said earlier, have stood up fine to this scrutiny and are offering a great service to, sometimes untraditional students, and some have serious issues.

I attend a for-profit online graduate school right now and have done so for almost 8 years. Luckily, mine is one whose numbers look just fine, even better than traditional brick-and-mortar graduate schools.

Added: AND I think schools are required to make their numbers public. Their website should tell you what their graduation rates are, or their loan default rates, or the percentage of graduates who work in the field they were taught. These numbers should be available to the public.

My daughter's ex-boyfriend went to a place like this a year and a half ago. They saw him coming and I feel took advantage of a not too bright kid. It was a very shark like sale (and I'm in sales!!!) with many false promises (OK, flat out lies!). It is very, very expensive...much more per semester/quarter than a state university in California, they are "for profit" little mills. He worked in that field for six months and owes a ton of money!

I probably couldn't do it either.

Agree with everyone else that it's the same for any other higher ed system that requires tuition. You pay the tuition regardless of whether you pass or fail that class and have to take it again (and pay tuition again).

I think the biggest difference between a school like DeVry and a traditional college is that a lot of times credits from the "for profit" schools don't transfer to other schools, so they're kind of "stuck" there until they finish or they're out of whatever money/time they've already put in.

Whether a student passes or fails, where do you expect the money to go? It's for tuition. One way or another the school needs to be paid. If they (the parents) enter the student on a scholarship that hinges on a student getting such-and-such-or-higher grades or else they have to pay it off as a loan, then that's really no different than any other educational institution. I don't understand how that's unethical or a money mill.

I don't see where ethics come in to play with the student loan payback. Students take out student loans to pay colleges, no matter if the colleges are for-profit or not. The college needs to be paid if the student is taking up space in the class.

That said, I've heard those jobs can be really tough because you're a sales person. But if you've done sales before then you could do this job too. If you are hesitant about pushing people, hounding them, following up, and trying to convince them that *your* college is the right now, then maybe this isn't the job for you.

I agree with Mamazita. If the job requires that you 'downplay' the true story (if they fail, they are still required to drop out, credits don't transfer, etc), then I wouldn't take it. However, if you can be honest and up front about the ins and outs, then I would see this an opportunity to help students who may get suckered in and get 'taken'. Also, if you are paid based upon the number of students you get to enroll or get approved for financial aid, you may want to stear clear, as you won't have as high of numbers if you are truly honest, where others might not be.

Good Luck!

I went to a business school -- I call it a "vo-tech" school. It wasn't one of the well known one, it was a small town school. It taught stuff like accounting, word processing, secretarial sciences, records management, medical transcription, office type stuff. They would kick you out for stuff like missing more than 3 days in a semester, low grades -- the kind of thing that would get you fired from a real job. Also they made you dress up like you were going to work in an office. There were rumors that they recruited people from the unemployment line, or from the welfare offices, but I don't know if they did that or not. A lot of people did get government grants that went directly to the school and if a person got kicked out of school, that money wasn't refunded.

It was tough and strict, but if you put in the work, you got marketable skills. I went in there in 1985 fresh out of high school-- college wasn't affordable for me or my family. I got skills, they had a person at the school that helped me find a job in an office and 10 years later I was secretary to the president of a major defense contractor.

P.,
I think what I hear you saying is the reluctance to have a student "lulled" in and commit financially to something s/he may or may not be suited for. Art institutes come to mind. As long as you can pay the tuition--you e got talent ENOUGH, right?
That said, I do think its a job you can do ethically.
As long as every potential student leaves your presentation knowing the good, the bad and the ugly, then it's a simple "buyer beware" situation.
Honesty will be essential to doing that job ethically!
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