IQ Testing

Please take no offense, but he doesn't really sound gifted to me. He sounds like the majority of the kids I know, save for my daughter who started reading at 3.

I'd wait.

It sounds like he is actually right on track, 5 years old is kinder, and most kids can learn their numbers and letter at 3 if someone pushes them in to it, but those kids are rarely still ahead by the 2nd grade. I think you should stop trying to push a gifted label and see how he does on his own. If he is board stiff and stays advanced compared to the other kids then you can talk to his teacher about options. JMO. I think we see the term "gifted" thrown around a lot for kids who parents just pushed hard at a young age for the kids to learn things that other kids could easily pick up but whose parents decide not to push it since they will learn it in time and there is no need to push these things earlier and earlier. If the child is truly gifted it will show when he gets older and is still far ahead.

From my experience as a child (and I'm 30, so times may have changed,) they don't really test for gifted this young. There are gifted "programs" within schools he can take part in, but they don't typically label a child as gifted this young. If there are magnet, or gifted and talented schools near you, give them a call. They will handle testing in house.

With all that said...He sounds smart, but fairly normal. (Just being honest.)

He sounds like a pretty typically smart (almost) 5 year old. Working on K level stuff at his age is normal. Most schools (even public ones) have some level or gifted and talented education, so if he qualifies for that it will be available for him.
You can ask his teacher and pediatrician about testing, but I'm pretty sure they will advise you to wait a few years. I think that usually happens around age 8 or 9.

Here's my thought. I have two very bright girls. The older one has always been a very hard worker. The younger one is flat-out brilliant (doing hundred-piece jigsaw puzzles in under 5 minutes as a toddler, reading books at 3 when nobody had taught her to read, doing addition of multiple numbers in her head in preschool) but is not as hard of a worker (has never had to be because everything has come to her so easily).

Well, now that they're in grade school, they both get straight A's, BUT what I'm noticing is that my older daughter - the one who works hard - is getting a lot more from her educational experience. She's not afraid to try something really hard and fail. My younger daughter, now that she's doing long multiplication and such, becomes easily frustrated because she doesn't know what to do when she doesn't "get it" just by looking at it!

Bottom line for me is, look for a school that will challenge your child, but more than that, look for a school where they won't treat your child like a genius. You want to encourage hard work and sticking with problems until they're solved, not just catering to "brilliant" children.

Ultimately, I don't see any value in IQ testing. It's going to tell you your child is smart. You know that already. Being smart isn't what you want to encourage, because that's something that comes naturally anyway. Working hard and challenging oneself is more important to long-term success. Encourage the right attitude and the sky's the limit.

C. - for me? Five years old IS Kindergarten, so he sounds NORMAL to me.

You want him tested - start with your pediatrician. Most pediatrician offices have psychologists on hand - they usually test for ADD/ADHD...then go to the school that is in your district and tell them that you want to see if your son is eligible for the G&T (Gifted and Talented) program within your district and what needs to be done to get him there.

Check the program out thoroughly. Make sure you want to put your son through this stress and such.

Good luck!

Our district doesn't test til spring of kindergarten. Are you looking for a private kindergarten? I'd just go with one that will challenge him and give him the education you want and go from there. Friend's son is mathematically talented but his dad's an engineer so it's not really a surprise.

I also agree to remember that you want a well-rounded person, however that comes to be. If you focus too much on one area, he might not get what he needs in others. I had a friend in HS who was 3rd in our class, very bright, but colleges rejected him because he had no activities or hobbies. He did go to college, but dropped out in his sophomore year. I think he just burned out.

Too young. He is probably a smart kid. My friends granddaughter was "gifted." They moved to another district and she was an average little girl.
Not u usual for five year olds to begin to read. Now if you said he was reading at a 3rd grade level, it would be different. Just like you said, he is a bright kid.

I have two kids who have qualified as gifted and talented as well. I would not push it -- the school will offer its own testing to qualify him. They typically test when they are ready or when you request it. My daughter's kindergarten teacher was perceptive and resourceful and arranged for her to go to first grade for reading and worked to meet her needs in the class before any testing happened. Our school didn't invite to test before first grade and I didn't really have a need for it, but they would have had I requested it. But I would not look into independently testing. The school you choose will ultimately have its own testing system, so anything you do will be just for you.

What I would do, though, is find out as much as you can about raising a gifted child -- there is a lot of anxiety and sensitivity these kids experience. It's not just about meeting their academic needs, but even more about their emotional needs. There are a lot of good books out there about that.

I had a friend working on her master's to be a diagnostician and needed to administer the IQ test on a child under 10. She asked to test my dgtr, I had to agree to allow her to test without ever receiving the test results. It was casual and comfortable, especially since this was a family friend. They met over a couple of sessions at the university library and that was that. My friend reassured me that my daughter's results would be confidential and that was that.

YEARS later, now that my friend has her master's degree and my daughter is an adult, I have the number. What my friend did for me was 1) the test was free and easy. 2) the number never played a part in our decision making, we knew what her capabilities were but mainly 3) she reassured us that we needed to have her challenged in her school work and she was a very smart and very funny girl.

My advice is: first, do no harm. If your son is thriving and happy, don't push him at this point. He will be pushed and laden with expectations in such a few short years. Let him enjoy learning, it is play and fun right now. Ease up, gifted kids don't "peak" at 6, you have time.

You are in an area with many wonderful institutes of higher learning, contact their department of education training and ask if they need children for their diagnosticians to test. That will at least give you and your chid an opportunity to go through the process at no cost to determine if you want to put out the $$ to pay for the test.

Good Luck!

Wait until he is six.

No, he does not sound that an average 5 year old. He sounds very bright, possibly gifted but there is no clear cut definition. When he is in school, they will do cognitive testing. I am sure he will do very well in school. In the meantime, get him involved in different types of extracurriculars to keep him well rounded.

Before giving him any tests, you will want to talk to a school that you would consider sending him to and get their recommendation on what type of test and where to have it done. Each school district, or private school, has their own requirements.

Many schools won't accept a child as "gifted" until they are tested in 2nd or 3rd grade, because brain develop is very uneven until then. My daughter was tested in 3rd grade and did qualify for her school's G&T pull-out classes. In first grade, we were warned that she might have a learning disability in reading she was so far behind "grade-leve" but by 3rd grade she tested at 99th percentile in reading. This uneven development is a trait common in gifted kids.

There are exceptions for age made in some schools, and there are exceptions made for the highly or profoundly gifted. Those kids are reading by 2 and writing symphonies at 3...

IQ is only one measurement of a child's abilities, and not the most reliable as far as measuring intelligence, which it was never designed to measure. An IQ score will change depending on the education that a child has received, it partially tests learned knowledge. There are cognitive tests that are better measures especially for younger kids, that measure creativity and their ability to think and use logic.

I do agree with the previous responders, though, that your son sounds intelligent, but not necessarily gifted. These two terms are often used interchangeably when they have two different definitions. You might want to do some research as to what your state considers "gifted", as most states do have a written definition that is used to determine what school services need to be made available. Many states require that a child shows not just intelligence but creativity and other traits to be considered gifted.

Will he continue in a montessori school in kindergarten? If he stays at the same school then I don't see a reason to have him tested since they'll continue to give him work that challenges him. If he'll be attending another school then you may want to wait and see how he's doing over all. If you find his needs aren't being met then you can request an evaluation to be done by the school.

My son had a lot of issues in 1st grade and they wanted to hold him back from 2nd grade because he couldn't read or write. I protested and after their evaluation it turned out that he had almost a genius IQ but was language impaired. Once they set a game plan to get him on track things went better.

I'd say to save your money and see what happens once your son starts school. IQ is only part of the picture in his education.

For what it's worth, here is my opinion. I have 2 very smart children. One met milestones very early, like your child. She's our straight A never has to studyreads at graduate degree levels 8th grader. The other missed every milestone by a few years - could have met them but he couldn't have cared less. But he's brilliant. Like scary brilliant in a "dance to your own beat" kind of way. We're fairly certain he has a photographic memory but he is in his own world and it's hard to assertain this for sure. We and the doctors don't think he's autistic but he is so ellusive no one has been able to pin down if there is a diagnosis for sure.

Does the academic program at their school really matter? Is the most important choice in choosing a school for them? Nope. Because no matter how much they are challenged or how smart they get, it's their emotional-social maturity that really matters at the end of the day. If they are unhappy because they can't get along with their peers for whatever reason, no amount of smarts can fix that.

Often kids who are more advanced struggle with the social aspects of school, for whatever reason. So THAT is where I would focus on findng a 'good fit.' What school will they have the best peer interactions in? Where can they be the most 'normal'? So often we place our advanced children on a pedestal, and they walk into a school only to be hurt that no one else places them on a pedestal too.

Look for a school that really focuses on helping kids learn to be good citizens and team mates. If they aren't getting challenged enough in school, you can always supplement their learning at home. Teach them about physics or arts or music history. Entroll them in a language course. End of the day - if your child isn't happy because they are 'different', you can't fix that at home.

One final note - resist the urge to start them in kindergarten early. The age difference and maturity levels will be bound to follow them through their entire schooling career.

some 5 year olds read.. some dont.. some 5 year olds are great at math.. some arent..

but by 3rd grade most of the differences go away.. most kids are at about the same level.. with a few way ahead and a few others trailing behind..

my son age 5 is a reader boy..he taught himself to read at 4.. I remember him picking up a book and jsut reading.. not sure how he did that.. he is in kindergarten.. the other kids are learning to read.. he is learning to sit still listen to the teacher.. follow directions.. draw aned color..

I wouldnt change your educational plans for him just because he has some advanced skills.. he needs to go to kinder with other 5 year olds. he needs to learn all the important social skills that come with kinder. \

I have thought of testing my very bright son.. but the test is a bit more accurate if administered to an older child.

He seems to be, 5.
My son, when he was in Kindergarten, was doing that too.
My son, entered Kindergarten at 4, then turning 5 later. He is born late.
At my son's school, per Kindergarten, the curriculum is as such and they actually do a ton more than reading and counting to 100.

I also know a family, who's son is gifted. And he was in a private school which they liked... chosen per the personality of their son and per the philosophy of the school. Not according to the brain ability of their son. The reason being, they wanted their son to be well rounded... and to develop social and emotional skills and ability. People skills and to learn and do things, as any other kid. Though was was, gifted. Not just their opinion. He is.
They also, worked with their son at home a lot. BUT not on 'academics' per say. But on, aiding him and teaching him, what he was "naturally" interested in and had a propensity for and a proclivity for. And per his creativity. They also, did not FOCUS on him being "gifted" nor did they highlight this to him a lot, nor did they focus on calling him "gifted" all the time. They wanted him, to feel like any other kid... and not being a kid that "compares" himself to others, in a better or worse sort of way per "smartness" or not.
Their son, thus, became a very empathetic well rounded, socially adept individual, who did not only... see himself as "gifted" but as a person who can also help others and convey acceptance of others too. Regardless, if he himself was always told by the school/Teachers/other kids, that he is "so smart and gifted." Being "gifted" was not his "identity." He... was... himself. And had friends from all walks of life. He did not set himself apart. He was of course later accepted to a top Ivy League school. But as a person, he does not derive his sense of worth, just because of his "smartness" and advancement in academics.
His parents did a good job with him. They developed... him. As a person. Not only focusing on academics or how "smart" he is.
Yes, he was tested etc. when he was older. He is, gifted.

I agree with BB. He sounds like numbers are his thing, especially if he could count to 100 at three. But given his age I don't know that he could be tested yet (but who knows?). I think it would definately be worthwhile to find out how the prospective schools deal with potentially gifted children.

The Center for Talent Development at Northwestern will do a brief IQ and a brief achievement test (KBIT-2 & KTEA-II) for children as young as 4. The testing takes about an hour, and costs $120. The tester we worked with was very experienced with young children, and my son found the experience quite fun. With qualifying scores, he could attend the CTD summer camps and weekend programs. These 2 brief tests are very different from a full battery of tests, which can cost over $1000 and takes many hours, but are also more reliable. They did, however, give us some information about our son's strengths (some of which we knew and some that was surprising), he enjoyed his CTD summer camp last year, and I think it will be good to have some "data" as we decide on kindergarten placement for him.

Here's my $0.02.

When my friend's kids got old enough to start pre-school they started at the local Christian school which was a registered Great Expectations school, see link below so you can find some lists of qualities in a school that are desirable.

The boy went through pre-K, Kindergarten, 1st, and 2nd. The girl went through from pre-K through Kindergarten. Then they moved to the country and started public school in a small country school with good teachers and pretty good testing scores. The dad decided he was an atheist and didn't want the kids learning all that wasteful stuff in Chapel and the religious parts.

When the boy started his classes this public school was almost a whole year behind what he had been doing in the private school. He was totally bored during the school year and it was really wasted time. He started acting out and trying to find things to do to occupy his mind. So he would sit there and day dream for the whole day after spending 5 minutes doing the assignment that everyone else was just starting to learn.

So I suggest that you look at the schools in your area for one that has the highest scores and recommendations. That is the school I would chose. Also if you can afford private school your child will have smaller classes, more attention, and perhaps a better education. I don't know if this experience will be true across the board but I do know this particular school was far above the rest in this town.

Although this is an Oklahoma program it has a LOT of good examples of what any school should want to practice and be like. It gives you some good ideas of what to ask about and look for when finding a school for your kids.

http://www.greatexpectations.org/about.php

I think that this organization has the right idea. There is nothing in the goals that would not be desirable in most settings. Finding the right school for your child is important or he may be bored and decide to dislike school. Being mentally challenged and loving each minute of school can make a huge difference in their experience and what will happen academically throughout their lives.

Too young for accurate testing.
I think it tends to run in families, are there others in his family that are gifted?
I think a lot of children are speaking in complete sentences at 20 months. Does he know his letters letter sounds and numbers because he was taught them or did he just pick it up? This is a nice checklist:
http://mcgt.net/checklist-is-your-child-gifted

You may be able to request an early entrance to K. The public school will then have to test him at their own expense. Gifted programs vary widely by state. Some states are required to test and identify, but not to serve those who are identified as gifted. Some states are required to serve. Find out what your state is required to do and how good the gifted programs are in your local schools. Sounds like you will need to find a good gifted program for your son. Not a bad problem to have!

We had our son tested for early entrance to K. They gave him an IQ test and achievement tests. He was pulled out of his preschool class for those, and it took several 1/2 hr sessions before it was all over. I was a little afraid that I was pushing him into K too early, but he's actually a bit bored in K right now! Our public school only serves gifted math starting in 3rd grade and gifted reading starting in 7th grade. It stinks, but that's the best our state can do with the funding they get, I guess. Private schools might do a better job at serving the gifted population, but I never looked into it.

Here are my thoughts, having a gifted child of my own. If you have lots of choices of schools at your fingertips and want to pay private tuition, then go ahead and try to get him into a high level school. I would not want to deal with a school that demands an IQ test for placement. That's just me. You should know about these schools from other people's experience - not just from reputation.

The term "gifted" in our education system IS quantifiable, and you need to actually look into what your local school system considers gifted to be. Our was an IQ of 130. THAT was the benchmark. Nothing under 130. It's pretty h*** o* those parents whose children tested at 129. If you ask me, that's gifted, but the administration has a cut-off because they need to. IQ doesn't measure artistic talents like music or art, so children can be gifted in ways other than pure IQ.

I would not have IQ testing done until he is at least 7 years old. Some schools do OLSAT testing in first grade, and the scores on the OLSAT are indicative of a child who is gifted. The school itself will not usually do IQ testing until 3rd grade, but it's according to the school.

In all honesty, I would strive to find a balance for him, C., in what you work with him on. Here's a list that you want to hit: puzzles, legos, train tracks, K'nex. These work his spatial sense. It's also about fun and discovery and imagination. Stories - beginning, middle and endings. At educational stores, you can find games that help with this. This is really important for when they start writing, because it helps organize the mind. Read, read, read to him. That's so important. Ask him questions about the story. Fun questions - don't appear to be quizzing him.

Show him how to work mazes. He needs manipulatives to work with shapes and groupings of numbers. There are computer games that teach math, but don't go overboard with them. REAL manipulatives work the brain in a different way.

Right now his little hands are still developing musculature, but he will need to be able to cut with scissors, use crayons, and have good handwriting skills. If you want to help him with that, the best way is to get a cushy pencil grip. It helps him to hold the pencil better. Some of them are triangular shaped to help with a correct grip as well.

Don't push too much use of a pencil at this point, because he is so young. Those little fingers need to grow into it.

Formal IQ testing takes many hours, and it's pretty expensive. I would wait - it's really very early for this.

Dawn

I'm surprised by the answers below. Why not have him tested? What would be the harm? If you do, just go into it knowing that you may or may not get a gifted result - and make sure you're going to be okay with either outcome. Make sure he feels unpressured about it too, and thinks of it as a game.

If you can do that, why not go ahead?

Exactly what Lisa O said!

We (parents, doctor, psychologist, teacher) suspect that DS (6) would qualify as gifted. However at this point, there is no additional programing that would be available to him with that label that he can't get without it. If there is a program that requires IQ scores, then get the test done. If not, leave it alone. They aren't considered reliable until 7 years old, anyway, so you'd want to have it redone down the line.

Our school district does screening for gifted programs in the spring of 2nd grade (so that there's been enough time in school for "gifted" to look different than "advanced," and IQ has stabilized a bit more), so he'll test then. The gifted centers here don't start until 4th grade so there is no reason to have IQ scores prior to that application in 3rd grade.

Find out what programs are available. Unless they require an IQ score, having it won't help you place him. All kindergartens are prepared to teach students who are a bit advanced (as well as a bit below). Nearly half of my son's kindergarten class started the year reading at least a little, with 3 students, like DS, as fluent readers. Now in first grade, he's exceeding 3rd grade standards, so it isn't like being at the top of his class is holding him back from learning and moving forward.

Hope this helps.

Sounds pretty normal to me. What are his favorite things to do? How did he learn all the things he knows? I mean, did he pick most of it up on his own, or did you practice with him often, was it something you wanted to teach him or did he ask you to teach him?

Not that you can compare one child to another really, but to give you a little perspective-- my daughter spoke well and early also. She also walked "early" (before age 1). And potty trained "early" (by today's standards anyway--by age 2). She has always been very keenly aware of her surroundings (even as an infant, every person meeting her for the first time would comment--I swear--- "She's So ALERT"... it was creepy how often we heard that exact comment). Her first word (I honestly don't know how long she had been saying it, because we didn't recognize she was using a "word" at first) was her brother's name. It morphed over time until we figured out what she had been saying all along... "uh" became "uhn" became "urn" became "urin" became "Aaron". It was ALWAYS directed at him. She loved books from I can't remember when she didn't. Her favorite bedtime "story" was any of many "I Spy" books we had, where we searched together for the picture of whatever the poems listed. If she didn't know what something was, I'd explain it, and we'd find it, and then she knew what those things were. Keyboards, knights, Saxophones, anchors, compasses, sundials, letters, chalk, phonographs, conch shells, bees (both bumble and letters), pins, phone booths, utensils, and on and on.... She wanted me to teach her to read, so she could do the books on her own when I wasn't able to sit down and read the lists to her.
She gave away her pacifiers on her 2nd birthday and begged me to teach her to read before she was 3. We started at about 3 1/2, and by her 4th birthday, she was reading her older brother's science texts (from his 1st grade year) for her own enjoyment. She was fascinated by reading how a plant grows from a seed. I'd buy her summer bridge workbooks to keep her entertained in the car and while waiting on her brother's karate classes. She taught herself math from them. Her best friend (aside from her stuffed animal Pluto) was a pencil and crayons, to work in her books. Her favorite TV show (at ages 4 and 5) was Lingo, and she was darn good at it, too. She asked for Jeopardy! for the Wii.

She also wanted to learn to play the piano. At age 7, we allowed her to be pulled from class one day per week for a 30 minute piano lesson during school. She still maintained a very high A average. Did well with the piano. Also learned the recorder in another class. And had Spanish one day a week as a school "extra".

Finally, in 3rd grade, we put the kids in public school and I requested they test her for G/T (they didn't use it in private school), as all her private school standardized testing put her reading in the high school and post high school levels. Math was, I think, 8th grade level per the Stanford testing they used in 2nd grade. Since the public school didn't have THEIR standardized tests (CRCT here in GA) to look at, despite the copies I had from private school, they were slow to get the testing scheduled, but they did administer the CogAt and she was admitted to the G/T program immediately. (One day a week, pull out program where she went to a different school with a class of other G/T kids for the entire day). She still maintained an average between 96-99 in every subject.

I could go on, and on some more (and will probably digress before I finish this post)... but the thing is that NONE of it was anything that we ever pushed her to do. SHE wanted to do. She wanted to learn.

So, back to how your son has learned the things he has.... Much of that could just be a regular, curious, little boy. It could be a parent who spent a lot of time teaching those things throughout the day. It could be something more, but honestly, it doesn't sound like it to me. I'm not even certain of how "advanced" it is, but I don't have much to compare it to. My youngest was far beyond that at the same age and my older one probably was about the same as your son. He was reading a few months after his 4th birthday (short chapter books like Henry and Mudge, or Frog and Toad, or Franklin)...

I tried teaching my son the alphabet song on car trips around town. He refused to be taught it---he didn't seem to like singing. His sister learned on her own from a talking leap frog stuffed animal. When she was first learning to read (at 3 1/2) she would scream out from the back seat " STOOOOOOP!" whenever she saw a stop sign. It didn't matter if it was directed at us or not... the cross streets got the same reaction if they were in her line of sight. I was afraid to take her into public bathrooms, for the stuff she would read off the back of the stall doors and ASK me about. And she LOVED to go to public bathrooms... they were all so different it was SUCH an adventure for her.

She has always been very mature for her age. If I was curious if she knew something and happened to ask something she felt was "beneath her", then she would pretend she didn't know and give wrong answers. She toyed with us. She still does.

I was/am gifted too. So is/was my eldest brother. There is a tendency for it to have a family history component to it.

I have never had her IQ tested, nor any other additional testing outside of the school's eval for G/T. I have no need for it.

Your son is in a montessori school, so he should already be working at whatever level he is capable of. If he is advanced in language, he will work at whatever level he should be. If he is advanced in math, then he will do work at the appropriate level for him. And so on. Montessori can be a GREAT fit for a gifted child. Or even one who is just advanced. IF you plan on taking him out of the Montessori school (for whatever other reason), then you could ask at his next school if they do testing. Most have a checklist they have for the child to be referred for testing, which almost certainly includes "request of parent". But barring some significant crazy advancement in some area you didn't mention here, he just needs to be encouraged to enjoy learning. There isn't any extra enrichment that you can't handle at home, in a fun non-academic way.

And if his birthday is soon, then he is right where he needs to be, sounds to me like. My son and daughter both have summer birthdays and are in their age appropriate grades, and have typically always been almost the youngest students in their class. They will graduate high school at 17.