How Old Were Your Kids?ins

I agree with Tracy G. From the time my kids started playing with toys, we started teaching them to put their things away. It was a process. Yes, at 4 they were expected to clean their rooms, but if they didn't put something away, we wouldn't keep them from going somewhere. Instead, the offending toy(s) may be put up on a high shelf for a few days or something. If the "punishment" (it's really more of an education) fits the crime it seems to teach them more quickly.

I ditto everything Diana P said.

I also think the punishment, is not a fitting one. A child should not have their time with grandparents taken away, for not cleaning their room. They are completely unrelated. And, you are also punishing her grandparents. There are many fitting punishments for not cleaning a room, but that is not one of them.

My daughter's floor has to be clean every night before story time. She will be 4 in two weeks.

I am trying to get her to make her bed, but she struggles a bit.

Taking away grandma time seems really harsh. My daughter just doesn't' get a book until her room is picked up.

Natural consequences are best for some sorts of punishment.
Not allowing your child to see her grandparents for not cleaning her room is strange and harsh. It has nothing to do woth a clean room.

Taking her toys that were on the floor away for a week makes more sense.BUT, she is also only 4.

Telling a 4 year old to clean her room is too abstract and too big of an order. She will be overwhelmed by this order, instead...

Ask her to pick up all of the clothes off of her floor and put them in the hamper.

After she does this, instruct her to put all of her books back on the shelf.

Once this is done ask her to put her shoes in her closet neatly.

Then ask her to put her toys in her toy box/ book shelves.

To make it fun, have her do it like a race. Time each task and let her know which one she did the fastest.

Thank her and congratulate her when it is all done.

I expect my four year-old to clean up after himself and to tidy up his room when it needs it, but I also understand that he's four. He can't just be told "go clean your room" and then punished when he doesn't. He still needs some supervision and guidance at this age. I give him small tasks, like putting away his books, and when he does that, I give him instructions for the next part of the job.

I wouldn't dream of keeping him from spending time with his grandparents as a punishment for anything. If he doesn't put his toys away when he's asked and I have to do it, I get to keep the toys for a while. That seems like a more appropriate punishment to me.

I would not cancel a visit with the grandparents over a four-year-old not cleaning her room. Sorry, but that sounds excessive and I bet she didn't learn anything from it.

My kids have helped with cleaning their rooms as part of their daily routines since they were toddlers/pre-schoolers. As part of their normal routines, they make their beds in the morning, put their PJs in their drawers when they get dressed, put dirty clothes in the hamper when they change for bed, and put their toys and books away when they're done playing with them. Sometimes when we're in a rush or our schedule is out of whack these normal things don't get done and things pile up and then, perhaps on a Saturday morning or before an after-school playdate or activity, they'll take 15-20 minutes to clean up and we're on our way.

There's no need to turn cleaning a bedroom into a power struggle or major chore. She's only four - when she's having a good, normal day I would expect a child to follow the normal routine and pick up after herself but if one of my kids was having a pokey or stubborn day, I'll just jump in and help out. We make it a game or something we do together. It doesn't turn into a huge deal that becomes a punishment that, in your situation, lasted for days.

While I applaud you for wanting her to be responsible for her chore, I would urge you to maintain appropriate perspective and practice being flexible. This is not a hill worth dying on.

Define "clean your own room". Do you mean make the bed, straighten up the pillows, put all toys away and clothes in the hamper? Or do you mean "put the toys in the toybox and books in the basket"? If it's the former, yes, I think you are being unreasonable. If the latter, then... yes... maybe still a little unreasonable based on how you make the request.

If you say to her, "Go clean your room. If you don't clean it, you can't go to Grandma's", then I think that's out of line. If you say, "Put 5 toys in the toy box and 5 books in the basket. Good work. Now put your dirty clothes in the hamper. Good. Now put your stuffed animals on the shelf. Nicely done!" - this is fair. If she pitches a fit and refuses to follow directions, then you can punish THAT behavior by revoking a privledge. "I'm sorry - I asked you to put 5 toys in the toy box and 5 books in the basket, but you didn't follow directions, so today you won't be able to visit Grandma/Papa. Hopefully tomorrow you'll choose to follow directions and then you'll be able to play with Grandma/Papa.

I think it's great that you are teaching her to be responsible so early! Just make sure you are being reasonable in how you are instructing her to do that.

Not sure I'd say wrong but it seems harsh. Did you learn to be responsible without your parents doing this? I know i did. I figure they're just kids once so I've held out on forcing responsibility young. Now mine are 6 and 7 and get it more. So today they both voluntarily cleaned their rooms to do a nice thing for me. Not quite 4 seems young to be really strict about it and leave it all to her. It seems like someone she should be helping with at this age. Remember she is just a very little kid. Lots of time in life for duties.

I think logical consequences with that age are key. For example. I'd your toys aren't cleaned up then they are put away can't play with them for a period of time. I think not letting her see grandparents for not cleaning is harsh. What will be the consequence when the offense is more serious?

Wow, that seems pretty harsh to me. When I worked in a preschool, not a single one of our kids could remember to clean up their own toys, but most of them were very good about cleaning them up when we asked them to, especially if we then helped a bit, by pointing out what needs to be done, etc. Do you expect your daughter to be able to look at her room and see what needs doing? I think you're expecting too much.

I am not a big punisher - I like to reward and encourage good behavior more than punish bad. I personally believe in the saying (for both children and dog training) to never set them up for failure, set them up for success. This means lots of reminders and help when it seems overwhelming, especially at a very young age like 4. If your daughter didn't clean her room, why didn't you take her to her room during playtime and have her clean it then? She is too young to just look around a room and see what needs doing, she needs direction as well as reminders. I would think that a child should be able to remember to clean up after themselves without reminders by...oh, the teen years?

If she absolutely refused to clean her room, I would think taking away all the toys and books she left out would be an appropriate punishment. Then she can earn them back. Taking away a weekend with the grandparents seems to send the wrong message, and it is in no way related to the offense, so I think it will be a difficult message to process. I agree with your folks.

Good luck.

ETA: My son is 3, and I expect him to help me clean his room. I tell him what things to put away, and if he isn't sure where they go, I help him. I agree that this is a very important skill to teach.

I helped my daughter pick up her toys at this age. I think punishments should fit the "crime". If the toys are the issue, then take away a toy, not time with people she loves. A four-year-old will not understand the connection between toys on the floor and a visit with Grandma. She may see the connection between toys on the floor, and that toy being taken away for a time.

Seems harsh - at this age you're still helping. And the punishment doesn't fit the infraction. I understand what you're aiming for, but it's a bit harsh. Diana P has some great thoughts. :)

what's your goal? to have a responsible child, or for her to have an immaculate room, or for her to be obedient when you tell her do things?
i think it's great that you expect a degree of responsibility from your daughter. 4 is plenty old enough to pick up her own toys. but 'clean your room'? is that what you tell her to do? does she know what that means? to my sons it means make the bed and hide their dirty clothes. to my husband it means move all the furniture, wash the curtains, scrub the baseboards and rearrange. for me it means straighten, dust, run a quick vacuum.
all a 4 year old can realistically handle is picking up her own toys. and that ought to be a part of the family routine. 'punishing' for non-compliance is really pretty harsh, and a punishment that far removed from the 'crime' is way over the top.
your parents are upset because THEY are getting punished too. i agree with them. find a better consequence.
khairete
S.

As a grandmother, I understand your parent's complaint. It feels like you're punishing them. It doesn't matter that they spend other times with her. They're disappointed this time. My daughter is careful to not take time away from me with her kids. And I appreciate that. Give your daughter a different consequence.

One I suggest is that if she doesn't pick up her toys you put them up, away from her and she has to earn them back. This will make more sense to your daughter and be a better lesson.

How often does this happen? Is your daughter having difficulty being consistent about picking up her toys? Do you help her get started or do you expect her to do this on her own? She's too young to be able to do this without some involvement from you, even tho it's minor.

Could they be questioning how you go about getting her to pick up her toys? Do you tell her to clean her room or to pick up her toys and put them away? I would avoid saying it's cleaning up her room to your parents. That sounds like much more than picking up toys. This may be a semantic issue with your parents.

At three my kids were(are) cleaning their rooms. But not on their own. An entire room for a young child is an over whelming experience. We walk in and see a few blocks and books. They walk in and thingk, "ALL this?? It's too much!"

We pick our rooms up daily. My husband calls us when he is on his way home from work and that's our cue that it's time to pick up. Picking it up daily keeps things from snowballing into an unmanageable disaster. Anything really involved that they will go back to can stay out. Yesterday my daughter had a pretty elaborate block castle set up that she built with her brother. She played with it all day, so it was allowed to stay. So when Daddy calls we go check her room and I will tell her one thing to pick up. "Pick up all the play food and dishes". She tells me when she is done (often it still has to be supervised). Then I"ll tell her to pick up all the books, etc. My son is six. He can take care of his room pretty much on his own. His clothes are hung on a lower rack, so he can hang them up. He may not be the best at it yet, but he can do it. He can't make his bed yet, but he has a loft and it's difficult to maneuver. But even at six, I occasionally have to get him back on track.

Taking away time from the grandparents seems harsh. At this age the punishment needs to be related to the crime. Your parents and the visit have nothing to do with the cleanliness of the room. Now the trip may have been postponed a bit, "You can leave for grandma's as soon as your room is tidy", but I would have been there directing traffic and encouraging her. I would have never taken away the entire trip. (Toys do go into time out around here. If you refuse to pick them up after being asked, they disappear for a week or so.) Teaching responsibility is fantastic and it starts early, I agree. But with a four year old, she's going to need direction and the punishment needs to "fit the crime".

Okay, yes, my kids have been cleaning their rooms. But they need help and reminders. I think it's wonderful you are teaching her this, however I think it is too much to punish her by taking away grandparent time. That isn't a healthy consequence for her to even really understand.

I think we all enjoy a clean house and tidy bedrooms. :) My kids do, too. It is more fun to drag the toys out into a clean space than when the space is cluttered.

I expect both my girls to help with cleaning up the house and their rooms. They are recently turned 4 and almost 2 years of age.

We do like the others have suggested and break the job into small bits and try to make it a game between the two of them. What has helped us, is that I try to always make the tasks in the same order to help my 4 year old understand and "see" a logical approach to doing it on her own. We always start with books, then dress-up stuff, etc.

We also have a place for everything and it is well labeled (with pictures).

The only real consequence my kids have gotten is a time-out for refusing to do something. THEY HATE IT.

I think it's great that you are teaching her responsibility and having her take care of her own space. Too many people never learn because Mom has always done it. However, I'd change the consequences if I were you to something that is more pertinent to that situation. :)

I expect my kids (ages 4 and 6) to help out around the house (put their dirty dishes in sink and put the silverware and kid dishes away, dump their trashes once a week, as well as help vacuum/sweep when asked. If those basic contributing chores are done they welcome to earn money by wiping doorknobs, lightswitches, or windows, and vacuuming/sweeping my room or office or bathroom). I help them clean their rooms every once in a while saying, "I'm happy to help kids who are working harder than I am," but I'm so particular about the rest of the house that, at my husband's urging, I try to let their rooms be their domain and give them some freedom and space and an area of their world that they can control. Some things I don't budge on since it affects me when I do laundry or try to help them get dressed -- I insist that they put their dirty clothes in the hamper (many reminders are required) and their clean clothes away and shoes in the closet so that in the mad dash to get ready in the morning we can find what we need. Their backpack needs to be hung up as well for the same reason.

But their bed is unmade and toys, etc, are usually scattered everywhere and and I let them be in charge of those. Oftentimes I will offer to help them make their bed and do positive reinforcement (the House Fairy -- http://www.housefairy.org/ -- comes to our house occasionally and leaves a note and fairy dust. If their room is clean she leaves a prize of some sort. Otherwise, just a note encouraging them to keep their rooms clean and congratulating them on their last soccer game or something. They like to watch her online videos. She's Santa's sister). Instead of nagging them to clean up toys, the Gunny Bag will come visit (a bag I drew eyes on and a mouth at the opening, an idea I got from Joy School) and gobble up their toys while I sing or play the Gunny Bag song on my iphone http://www.amazon.com/Gunny-Bag/dp/B003U2IMJG . I usually warn them the Gunny Bag is coming in the near future or sometimes he comes without announcement if I've asked them to put their toys in the living room away and they've ignored me. He also goes into their rooms. Man, that throws them into a frenzy of cleaning. If the Gunny Bag comes and their room is all clean, he throws up the toys he gobbled last time. They laugh so hard at that. The rule is supposed to be that if eats up the same toy more than once he never returns it, but that seems a little harsh, especially if it's a really nice or expensive toy. But I bet it would be very effective.

I completely believe in expecting children to contribute and enforcing the rules you set with logical, natural consequences, but we also need to have reasonable expectations relative to their age. I probably would not set the limit that my 4 year-old can't play with Grandma unless their room is clean, due to both her age and the fact that grandparent time is unrelated to clean room. I think grandparents are such a wonderful thing and we want all the people helping love our kids that we can get. Maybe they can't play with their toys, or a particular game, or go do something fun, or to the park until their toys are clean. You can say, "You are welcome to do X, once Y is done," and stick to it without being mean about it, but choose those limits carefully since you've got to follow through. Parenting with Love and Logic is a wonderful parenting program and resource that has given me a lot of tools in this department. Good luck! I'm glad you take your job to instill character, responsibility, and a work ethic seriously.

It's not too young to teach responsibility but be sure it fits her age. I don't think she could keep the whole room spotless and yet she needs to learn to do certain tasks daily, etc. Maybe you could 'help' her do some of it so she could not miss out on time with grandparents, etc. Make it fun and not drudgery, but still something she is responsible for. Add to it as she gets older and is able to do more.

My girls are 6 and 4 I find it much less painful for everyone if I just go in there and help them. By help...I mean I make piles of things and tell them to put them away. (They know from that point where they go.) They feel overwhelmed if I just send them in. And I find it stays more organized if I oversee where things are put away vs them shoving them in the wrong bin or throwing things in the closet.

Oh but my 6 year old loves making her bed so I don't even have to help with that.

LOL!!
My daughter is a high school junior and still can't manage to keep her room picked up. She leaves at 6:30am and many days doesn't get home until after 7pm. Then she's got homework. She's busy. She gets straight As. I have time. I keep it picked up for the most part.
So to answer your question: It depends on the kid, the family, and the importance you want to place on a picked up room.
LBC

At 4 I sat in the room and "helped" them clean it up. I would say, OK get all the Lego's and put them away. Or all stuffies, dolls, books, etc. We made a game out of it.
If she has too many toys take some away.
Make sure everything has a place, stuffies are in a hammock or on the bed, Lego's have their bin, trucks go in another, Barbie's and paraphernalia.
Make sure the bins are big enough.

Responsibility is taught by watching parents be responsible. If you are responsible for keeping the rest of the house clean they will want to emulate your habits and keep their room clean. But if your "rooms" are a mess why should she keep hers spotless? (I know she's only 4, she will be 14 soon enough though.)

For years my son has had to be reminded to feed the dogs, he's 11. Now he will sometimes go down and feed them without me asking.
THey have to do chores, I still have to remind them, but I have been surprised lately that when they want to "make", cookies, cakes, dinner, the kitchen is usually cleaned up. MIne are much older than yours, 11, 14, and 16.
My best friend was pleasantly surprised when her son called to complain that SHE made him early by 10 minutes for every function, event, whatever. He is 23 and gets super riled when someone makes him late.

This all starts at 3 and 4. Yes, she should clean her room, but you should also sit in there with her and "help" her. That doesn't mean you do any work, just sitting on the bed and giving positive reinforcement should help alot.

Think of it as a lifelong process.

We have our 3.5 yr old pick up her toys and help me with her clothes (she sorts, I fold). I think that 4 is old enough to do a basic "pick up your toys". She might need some direction. My DD does best if I say, "Alright! Let's find some dolls!" and put categories of toys away.

There were many times when we told the sks they could not go play or sleepover because they didn't do their chores.

my daughter is almost 7 and STILL has a hard time cleaning her room. I also still make her bed though. She has a day bed so it's harder to get it all tucked in there. If it's not so bad, then she can usually do it, but her friend lives next door and is over pretty much every day and they make such a mess! She gets overwhelmed and can't do it all on her own. I usually help her with it. I also have a son who is 4 years old and I also have to help him as well. They are both good about putting their dirty clothes in the laundry basket though!
Maybe instead of punishing her, make a reward chart or something. I wouldn't take things away. That will just make her frustrated. Give her a reward for doing it that way she has some type of motivation. Also, you shouldn't expect it to be perfectly clean the way YOU would clean it. She is only 4 years old! Clean to a 4 year old is not the same as clean to an adult. At least she tries right?

My daughter was 3 when she started cleaning her room and my son was about 3 as well. What you did is definitely right in my opinion and your parents need to realize you're her parent and you should not feel scathed by their opinions of your parenting.

If you told her to pick up her toys and she knew she had to pick up her toys ( clean her room) before she could go to her grandparents and she refused to do so.. then yes I agree with you she shouldn't have gone.

The next time she doesn't do it before going to grandma's house, give her that simple reminder... remember last you had to stay home because you wouldn't clean, I don't want to see that happen again, lets go see how fast we can get all the toys picked up. I bet she does it!

At that age I would have her HELP me clean her room. I would do it with her and as we went we sing the cutsie little song "Clean up, clean up, everybody everywhere. Clean up, clean up, everybody do your share." I think that you could then sometimes ask her to do it alone....baby steps.

my girls are 4 and 7. when i want them to clean up their rooms i make a detailed list of what i need them to clean up. when they are younger i draw pictures next to the items i write out. now that my 7 yr old reads i just make the list. they like to mark things off and i feel like when i just said, clean your room, they got overwhelmed. i fold their clothes and lay out the shirts that need to be hung up and put it on their beds. they take care of putting it away and hanging it up themselves. i started this a yr ago with my older daughter and my younger one asked to be able to do it too. they might not do it they way i would but they are doing it themselves which is more important to me.

No,you aren't wrong. As long as you are not asking her to do things beyond her capabilities. My kids had to pick up the toys they dragged in the living room before bed at 2. They had to pick up in their rooms by 4. It's called teaching responsibility. If more parents did that we might not have so many kids growing up thinking there are no consequences for their actions.And remember,it is you raising this child not your Mom.

nope i make my daughter pick up before bed too. infact shes doing it right now!. theres nothing bad about having your child pick up her room before bed etc.

My daughter turned 4 last week. She has been cleaning after herself since she was 2 (at which her corrected age was actually 1.5yrs). Twice a day, before nap & bedtime she does "put-away". We sing a song that her physical therapist taught us...
"Clean up, clean up, everybody everywhere. Clean up, clean up, everybody do their share."
Although, it is minimal, because we taught her from birth that she was not allowed to plan with something else unless she put her current toy away. So there is never a whole heck of a lot out.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to expect your 4 your old to pick up her room and punish her if she doesn't. However, I don't think you should also be punishing your parents. When my kids don't do the right thing, I punish THEM. But I never stop visits with other people who are expecting them.

Good luck,
L.

I wish I had made my d clean her room by herself. She is such a slob. I am anticlutter, but she has so much stuff. I cleaned it today and made her finish.
I realized she needs me to show her exactly how to clean. I figured out how to clean the entire house by myself by age 9. My M. was a working M.. I was cooking by 10 and doing laundry by 12.
I say keep up the good work

My kids are VERY self sufficient, from having responsibilities like picking up their own room. 4 years old is old enough to pick up their toys. My kids did not like it, but still did it. Chore charts with some reward system can be very helpful at that age as well. My children have had chore charts for a very long time but half of what is on their is reminders.