Help with 2 Disrepectful Daughters--nothing Seems to Work

Hi, don't feel bad. We went thru it too. The first thing we did was to totally take everything out of their room. I mean everything. Even the sheets on the bed. This happened with my son and we made him have to earn everything back. He still remembers it to this day and reminds his sisters that mom and dad have no problems following thru with their threats. Hope this helps.

Really sounds like they really need to talk to you. There is something that is really going on with them that if you don't talk to them soon they will do all kinds of things that will get attention. Talk not yell, listen don't judge. Cry with them and let them know you love them.

12 and 14 are hard times for kids, they are trying to assert more independence, however as a parent you need to keep the boundaries firm. The disrespect is just like when they were 2, however it seems more personal and like they should know better, just a phase testing the boundaries getting a reaction. Give them some space, let them have a friend come over, or take them to the movies with a friend to tag along. Praise them for what they are doing well, good grades, maybe a good time to cook together on Friday nights and draw an activity out of a hat to do with a friend w/ Mom or to do as a family. Chores with an allowance will keep them busy and less sassy too. Hope this helps. The 12 yr is copying the 14yr, so if you change the 14yr behavior the 12yr behavior will disappear.

Hi W.-

Ok, I do not have teenagers so my advice is coming from 20+ years ago when I watched my parents deal with my older sister. Early on our punishments were typically you lose TV or phone priveleges (this was before kids had cell phones) or friends couldn't come over for a week at a time. This never worked for my sister. The punishment was short term and she knew she'd get those things back eventually so it didn't matter to her. My parents changed the rules on her, and started taking things away PERMANENTLY. They stripped my sister back down to the absolute basic essentials. She had a place to sleep, clothes on her back and 3 meals a day and that was all. No new clothes, no electronics, no use of the car (she had her license at the time), my parents stopped paying for extra curricular activities for her, etc. If my parents did not think it was a necessity, she did not have it! The rule was very simple, if you want to be treated like a member of the family, you had to show respect for the family. My sister did not straighten up over night, but her attitude did get a lot better. Once she was improving my parents SLOWLY gave her back some of the "perks" of being a member of our family, however they were careful not to give back everything.

By the way, you're right....your daughters don't think there is any way you will "cancel Christmas" on them. I say do it, you and your husband should take the money you would have spent on them and spend it on each other! Get nicer gifts for each other than you would ordinarily do and let them know that birthdays and future Christmases will look the same if they don't straighten up!

Good Luck,
K.

PS: I have a 5 year old daughter who is already trying my patience so as I read this I weep for my future! :-)

W.,
Alot of it is the age, and just like a toddler its time to test waters and find what they get away with. Don't let them get to you. Also never say your going to take something away that you won't because then they just start acting up more knowing your not going to do anything. My mom we thought she was crazy but you know 25 years later me and my friends laugh about it because we're proud she stood her ground with us. She'd say okay I'm leaving to go to the mall at 10:30 and if you want to go your room has to be clean or whatever else chore was yours to do. She didn't come to my room over and over again she'd stop by when she was walking out the door and if your stuff wasn't done she was gone to the mall without you. One time she made me, my sister and our friend walk home. She put us out of the car because we were acting up. I don't suggest that in this day and time but we respected her and we didn't act up or definately didn't smart off. Anyway I have daughters too and when I went through a divorce I wasn't discipling the way I should and I had the same problem out of my oldest girl, alot of guilt on my part left me with a mouthy preteen and teenager. I finally got myself together and took my ground back. Its hard when they are already out of control but its not too late. Remember don't threaten anything you know deep inside your not going to follow through with. Trust me a few years from now your kids will talk about the story when mom...........and respect you, I never hear people talk about the mom who let us by with everything 10 years down the road, at least as a good memory anyway that mom is only remembered when the action is in play she is not respected later. I'm not saying this is what I felt about you when I read you I'm just painting a picture for you so you'll know who you are to your kids and take your ground. Do you know that kids want to feel safe and they feel safe when we as parents have rules it gives them a since of security. So don't ever feel like your a bad mom. Your a great mom for the simple fact of reaching out to us!!!Merry Christmas, I know it will get better for you.

Hey W.: I'm not sure I can visualize their behavior enough to offer concrete advice... How "bad" are we talking?

Are they talking back to you, like saying 'shut up' or calling you 'b*t**'?
Or are they ignoring you, your requests and/or ignoring their chores?
Are they going behind your back, sneaking out of the house, stealing from you, and/or stealing alcohol? Are they doing drugs? Are they cutting school? Are they lying? Are they shoplifting? Are they wearing make-up or inappropriate clothes?

Yes, you can show them 'tough love', but that method doesn't seem to be working. You can escalate the tough love, but from a teenagers perspective, if you do take everything away from them, then they really won't have anything to lose with even worse behavior... Be careful! Your choice of punishment could be a double edge sword and push them to rebel even more. You mention that their grades are good and they are motivated students. That's something to acknowledge... they are not total mess-ups...

Maybe the are just spoiled...? Maybe they need a good dose of reality with volunteer work at a food bank or homeless shelter? Or, if this a case of teenage rebellion, you'll need to focus more on effecting a communication plan. Teens don't want to be told what to do; they want to feel like they have some autonomy. Maybe your girls don't feel their opinions or participation in the household are respected... or perhaps they feel that future efforts won't be appreciated? Teens have warped perspectives... But perhaps try and get them to vocalize what they are fighting against; bring them back into the fold. I really think open communication is key. What is it that they feel is not being respected or acknowledged by you and your husband?

Ok,here's the deal with the Christmas presents (we struggled with this too.) It depends on your view of Christmas.

Although the legend goes that santa knows wither you are naughty or nice and you get coal in your stocking if you are naughty, it should be different for those who celebrate Christmas as a Christian holiday. To Christians, Christmas is about loving other and God's love towards us in that WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS Christ was born to us and died for us to save us. So grace indicates that the children should receive gifts in celebration of the ultimate gift, regardless of their behavior as salvation is available to us BECAUSE of our sin and His love towards us DESPITE our sin.

However, in my own family we stress to the children that Christmas is not about presents, it's about caring for others and worshiping God. So to have the attitude 'it's not Christmas without presents' is to negate that very idea you are trying to teach.

My children have been HORRIBLE. I am expecting #5 in a couple of months and am desperate just as you are to get control of the situation. My oldest in particular (will be 6 next month) is terribly disobedient and violent and disrespectful. Their room was full of hidden wet pullups (stuffed under toy shelves and behind things ect) and full of FOOD as they keep stealing stuff out of the LOCKED fridge and any other time they can get to something and cart it off to their room. As a result, when I went to clean it on Saturday the curtains had molded and the place was really really horrible- I mean CPS carting kids away horrible. And they REFUSED to help clean it. I bribed (candy. nope. rented a movie to watch with candy. nope. ) I punished (we took the computer away. nope. We stood them in time out for long periods. nope. We even spanked. Nope.) They STILL refused to work. They stayed in their room for over 8 hours while I cleaned it, watching me. I'm still not completely done with it.

So, I in desperation told them that the next day we would be going to Grandma and Grandpa's for the Christmas party and they could not get Christmas presents. My 6 YO went and got me the phone and said she wanted to call Grandma and tell her not to give them presents because they don't want to clean!

The next day I gave them a chance to earn the presents back if they clean the living room. Again, I was helping them and they did a TINY bit but eventually refused to do anything at all despite the loss of the gifts!

Now, my family were FURIOUS with me for telling them they couldn't have the gifts. But SOMETHING needed to be done! Ultimately, gaining control of their behavior and getting their respect is more important then presents, Christmas, ect. Yes, grace says that you get something you don't deserve. However, with God there is also justice and sometimes God takes things away (such as in finances) to teach you a lesson too.

the idea "spare the rod and spoil the child" simply means if you don't guide the child in the way they should go then they will be spoiled, disrespectful, and will not grow up to be the person they should be. So if that means taking away their opportunity to get Christmas gifts, then so be it. But this should be used as a LAST RESORT.

BTW, Christmas party went like this: as soon as they walked in the door they told everyone they couldn't have gifts and why. Of course my family were furious with me, said I was punishing THEM as well as the kids but oh well. When it came time to open presents my oldest ran off to the bathroom crying but came back a little later just fine. When we got home my #3 child cried just a tiny bit and said she wanted presents, but then she was fine. Have they helped clean up yet to earn those presents? Not yet. But I have all the gifts ready when they choose to do so.

I wish you all the best. Being a parent means we have to make tough choices sometimes, choices that others don't agree with.

S.

Hi W.,

I think you're a good mom. We all get overwhelmed and I admire your honesty about your feelings and your situation. The best thing we can do is share with and support each other.

I think you're doing well by taking this away and suspending christmas (even santa would agree that poorly behaving girls get no presents. In france, Pere Noel woudld bring them coal) :)

Have you tried simply not engaging with them when they do this? I think sometimes this type of behavior can be a power play. If, when they act up, you stictly ignore them, totally remain calm (conciously remember to breathe peacefully-- that helps a lot) and do not respond to them. Do not give them the object of their anger, even if it is dinner. Any disrespect toward mom or dad results in mom or dad ceasing to provide the things they expect from you: attention, conversation, dinner, (they are old enough to scrounge if they need to), and most of all, anger. They won't get a rise out of you.

It might take a couple months of strict practice and I'm sure they'll look for other ways to get a rise out of you but if you never give it, it might just stop.

Just an idea.

Good luck.

Hi W.. I can relate to your frustrations. 15 months ago we lost our daughter. Since the day she passed we (my husband and I) have been raising her two younger children. They are now 15 (girl) and 14 (boy). They were not disciplined much as youngsters since they lived predominantly in a single parent home. Both kids get good grades in school and their teachers, coaches and youth pastor comment about how well behaved they are, BUT at home....they are ungrateful, disrespectful and downright cruel and rude. I have talked with my daughter-in-law and others with teens and they are experiencing very similar behavior from their teens. I think your friends are either not being truthful, or are just much more tolerant. I spend a lot of time praying over the kids. We limit TV watching and monitor phone activity. I have found that some of the text messages give clues to the kind of friends they hang with. My only advice is....love them unconditionally. Correct them and BE CONSISTENT....no matter what. If you threaten to withhold priviledges, DO IT. They won't like you now, but they will appreciate you later. Find time to do something special with them individually every week. They really are just looking for attention and wanting to be independent. (They think they are adult enough to make their own decisions) Since I already raised 2 children (many years ago) I have heard they words "you know Mom, you were right". Your day will come too......Just remember, it is a phase....and this too shall pass......God Bless you W.....I will be praying for you and your girls. K. S.

Hi W.,
Since you work full-time, as do I, they may feel that they only get part of you and, therefore, they make the weekends as "attention-getting" as they can!

Do you spend a lot of time with them, talking to them, listening (especially important), and doing fun things?

As hard as it may seem to do that...especially if you don't like being around them so much right now...this will be an investment that could pay off ten-fold.

Right now, it sounds as if they just want attention...even if it is negative attention. And, if you're beginning to "dread the weekends" when you will be home with them, then that feeling might be starting a self-feeding, downward spiral that could just get worse and worse over time. In other words, the more you "dread" being home with them, then the more you may disengage yourself from family activities---at least mentally---which could make them need even MORE attention from you by engaging in even MORE negative behavior.

So, I would recommend giving them lots of positive attention, positive reinforcement, listen to them when they talk about their issues (so many things/changes that they feel are weight-of-the-world important are going on right now), go to fun places with them, etc. and see if you can get a positive, upward spiral going!! Hopefully, the more attention they get from you, the less they will actually need --- especially the negative kind!!

I hope this helps!
D.

Seek out a family counselor. Two hormonal tween/teen girls is a lot to handle. Something clearly needs to get out in the open. You all need to learn new communication methods and you need some help with parenting. Good luck! You are not a terrible mom - just an overwhelmed and busy one!

W.,
All teens are feeling their way. Get some help in deciding if this is "normal" teen angst or defiant behavior. Maybe a counselor or jr high teacher can help you to decide.
I have raised 2 daughters; one was perfect, the other was a trial. She spent a good part of her adolescence at a trusted friend's house (mom my friend, daughter, her friend) which gave us both breathing room. It was an awful period. She now lives 8 minutes away and things are good.

My mother cancelled Christmas one year. We forgot all about it, my mother always regretted it.

I disagree with violence to settle problems. Period. The whipping, "tearing into their butts" teaches them that might makes right. It is wrong on every level.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is 1 on 1 time. Take each daughter out for lunch alone, no dad, no sister. Or allow each to stay up an hour later one night a week. and say, "I don't like the way things are around here, what do you think?" and listen. Try to find ways to take her suggestions, try to find suggestions that she can take. You are the adult, try to defuse the situation rather than escalate it.
You can take things away and they can earn them back, but try to hear them out first. Do your girls have chores? I would ensure natural consequences by not starting dinner if the kitchen wasn't cleaned. Said daughter did not do the dishes (spaghetti) and I left the dishes on the table. the next night when she had to scrape them to clean the kitchen so I could start dinner, she was an unhappy camper, but she didn't do it again.
You also might try writing how you are feeling and soliciting input from them in the same way so you both take out the emotion and get to the nuts and bolts of what the problem is. There is no short cut to getting through adolescence. Just remember it is harder on them than on you.
Good luck. It is only 4 and 6 more years and it goes in a flash.

I have a 16 yr old and a 12 yr old. The 12 yr old tries to have more of an attitude than the older one. Points to remember:
This is not personal-it is their job to question but within boundaries.
You are not their friend and should be addressed respectfully-my 16 yr old says she is just kidding around and I tell her she can't talk to me that way even jokingly.
Don't make idle threats-they know you will never take away Christmas!! But do tell them it will only be one gift-not the like in the past. Taking away Christmas punishes you and your husband and any other extended family will not honor this either.
My daughter told me the other day that I was the strictest mom of all her friends mom's. I can't wait for the day for her to thank me for being strict!!

W.,

My heart goes out to you. Without knowing you or your girls, it's kind of hard to say what would work. However, one question that keeps coming back to me is, is it possible that your girls are crying out for more attention from you and your husband? Sometimes some relaxed quality time really helps.

No offense; but I would start with trying to figure out the why before I disciplined. From your post, it sounds like you threaten in order for your girls to be respectful. Have you tried going back to basics?

When they start speaking to you disrespectfully, you can give them a verbal warning, "I will be more than happy to listen to you; but only after you can speak to me respectfully" and walk away. If they continue, then just ignore them. Yes, they'll throw bigger fits, but as long as you stand your ground and don't give in to them, they'll get the message that they can't speak to you like that.

Also, I'm not sure what your rule is on going out or having friends over; but if they've done what's expected of them and they're asking to go somewhere and for money, put the responsibility back on them. "Sure, you can go to XYZ as long as you have the spending money and as long as you can get a ride to and from. You'll need to be back by X time."

I know I'm guilty of doing too much for my 13 yr old and sometimes she doesn't know exactly how to express how she's feeling, so it comes out as a tantrum.

Sometimes changing how YOU approach the situation gives you different results.

Best of luck!

PS. I forgot to mention that I agree with not spending much on Christmas gifts especially if they are acting entitled to certain things; but I would not cancel Christmas all together. You could always take food to the homeless shelter, volunteer at a soup kitchen, etc. What about doing homemade gifts or just doing a gift exchange with them? I think your girls are definitely old enough to understand that Christmas is about much more than getting presents.

Hi,
Sorry you are going thru such a mess with you children. You are not a bad parent, just keep standing your ground. If disrespecting you gets your girls no christmas presents, then understand that they are making that choice not you. They know the consequences and are choosing that over being respectful to you( make sure they know this) then follow thru with no presents. No presents will be harder on you and your husband than them and it will teach them a valuable lesson.
I stand behind you 100%.
Blessings and stay strong.
D.

Hi There-

Sorry you are going through this. I have mentored and coached a lot of highschool and middle school children and have found that when kids are acting this way it is actually a cry for attention. Do you guys have a regular "date" scheduled with your daughters for both you and your husband weekly or at least biweekly so that they can have one on one time with you. I know you have to get creative like starbucks or IHOP before school. It will start out pretty quiet, but if you stay consistent they will start opening up. These kids want nothing more than to feel like their parents are there for them and that they understand them. It is so worth it to get a hold of this before they get in highschool. It will create a much more rewarding relationship. On these one on one dates you can discuss this disrespect and get their input as to what they think the consequence should be when they act that way.
Good luck and I will say a prayer for you!
And.....be sure to do something for Christmas for them.......even if it is writing them a letter about why you think they are special and going through their baby book with them.
Merry Christmas!

Sometimes 'grounding' doesn't work with some teenagers, but 'shutdown' may. However you want to call it, 'shutdown'or 'lockdown'; strip the girls of everything they have. I mean clothing, cell phone, tv, etc..you come up with a time frame that they will not have these things and then they start earning their things back. You & your husband set the 'contract' with them, they don't have say. I know this might sound harsh, but it works. Try not to feel guilty, what other parents might think...your daughters are disrespecting you & your household rules, not theirs. They are 'stripped' of their things and 'stripped' of their entitlement. Good luck with whatever you decide!

hi,W.
At 12 and 14 these children are almost not children anymore. While it takes many methods, I tend to agree with the woman who suggested you read Elaine Mazlisch and Adele Faber, "How To Talk...". Excellent book for ideas.
In our kids program, we use KidPower which is a sociocratic council where kids and adults share equal power. Often kids just need to feel that they are taken seriously and that their opinions are valued, and that they have some kind of autonomy over what happens in their lives.
It works as a family council. Someone is chosen to run the meeting. Basic rules of conduct for the meeting are hashed out by all. Each item up for discussion is talked about in turn by all present who wish to respond, and then courses of action or new rules are proposed. Nothing is decided upon or adopted until there are no objections. This is important. It is not that the majority rules. What happens in sociocracy is that a group consensus must be reached. This means the adopted rule or solution must be livable for ALL. Meaning no objections. It may not be a person's ideal solution, but they can live with it for now. Remember it can be changed later.
The thing to keep in mind for this to work is that it must be true power. YOu and your husband must agree beforehand what is negotiable in council and what isn't. For example: deciding on an appropriate time to come home from a party may or may not be.
We have incredible response to KidPower. The children grow and flourish as an amazing rate.
So turn the TV off and get started. It will change your lives and if you need any help, just let me know.
Z.

yikes! i have 2 small daughters and dread those years, b/c what you're experiencing. i know you only gave me a glimpse of your household...but the pix i got was that it's a very stressful, power-struggle home. i've taken a class, "love and logic", and they have books geared for the teenager. please look into it for a resource...there toddler program worked wonders for me. i wish the best for you. you should like you have a good heart.

If this helps: I was absolutely MISERABLE to my parents, especially my mother, from 14 to 16. We are a very close and loving family, but I was hell on wheels - rude, disrespectful, even hurtful at times. It was hormonal upheaval, early teen stuff - on steroids. I look back and think about what might have worked and this is what I come up with: Ignore them whenever possible when they're being rotten. If you're at home, remove yourself. If you're out somewhere, take them home. Tell them you're going to read, then go to another room with a good book, shut the door and don't utter a word. I guarantee you that they will start to see, maybe after the 100th time, it's true, that you are not taking the bait anymore, that you have other ways to use your valuable time and attention. My stepson, now 14, is going through a similar phase and I find that when I ignore it and just go about my business calmly, he usually emerges from his funk and comes to find me. He's a lot like my 2-1/2 year-old in that way!
I would also decide on one major consequence, rather than threatening a number of big things you might not have the stomach to go through with. For instance, you're now in the position of having to make good on a threat to have no Christmas presents. Are you really prepared to do that? I'm just wondering if they're not taking such extreme threats seriously because they are extreme and because you've made a couple of them. I think you're going to have to follow through - at least once - to get your point across.
It's a rotten age! Good luck.
J.

I would like to send you free packet of parent tipsheets and articles for managing these years with your girls in topics such as the ones you mentioned and also , curfew, chores, etc. Our agency has great info that will guide you to get the results you want. Send me your address or call me at ###-###-####.
Also, the book, How to Talk so Kids will Listen and How to Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Faber and Mazlish, is excellent! I have a 17yr old girl, and we went through this a couple of years ago. The communication is much much better now, she's more responsible and repectful.
D.

Hi W.,

You have alot of responses and I have to agree with some of them Karen S. especially, Having teenagers is never easy, I have boys 11 and 15 and I have raised my share of girls helping family out in my early twenties when mine where just babies. The one thing I have learned with teenagers all together and from my own life is we want to grow up to fast. Sometimes parents get busy and they do grow up to fast. Taking Christmas away shouldn't be a punishment, Christmas is not about gifts or material things. So don't punish yourself and allow the joy of Christmas be taken because how they behave. Sometimes sisters need a break from one another and sometimes humility is the best thing. When you take away all the material things in their life what are you left with? The kids-sometimes kids need to learn to live with themselves,
find who they are. Kids learn from others, friends can have impact on their lives just as much as you do. So if you take them from the ordinary and put them somewhere their not use to and let them step outside the box, they just might get a glimpse of who they are and what they are doing. Sometimes we cant see past the end of our nose no matter the age. Their are plenty of places for them to volunteer at, take their time away and let them see a different light. Its the smallest act that makes a difference. Sometimes the answer is right in front of you.

dear W.-you sweet thing. you are really in a terrible struggle. one thing i haven't seen in other letters is to see a therapist. you need some tools to help you cope with your feelings about what you are thinking and also some suggestions that will help you talk to your kids. you need some relief from your thinking you are a failure as a mother - i wish you would have been around to see My beautiful baby girl turn into a monster at 12 and it only got worse...if i had not gone to therapy for ME i don't think i would have survived the experience. there wasn't anything that wasn't my fault and it's very hard not to take what is said personally and think you are a horrible person. if you go to therapy, you will realize this is a normal process teens go thru, but there are ways to cope and keep your cool, while not accepting bad behavior, but keeping the peace. this will pass after awhile but it's not easy to go thru, especially two at the same time. you have to remember this isn't something You did - it's the teen years. take care of yourself and remember it's not your fault. good luck-

Hi W.!!! I'm sure you have tried sitting them down and talking to them -- just as you would if they were someone else's kids -- if you haven't tried that, you might -- let them vent for a few minutes to see if you can determine what is the cause for this behavior -- whether they are having adjustment problems to being teens, whether there has been some major upheaval in their lives (i.e. friends move, parents changed jobs, less money for "fun" things, whatever). The main thing you have to do is keep that line of communication open with them (hard as it will be)-- that is the only thing that will get you through this terrible time. How are their grades at school? Are they involved in extra-curricular activities there? Are they involved in a youth group at church? Do they watch a lot of TV and are they trying to emulate what they see? Teenage years are the pits -- I surely would not want to go back to them! Just in case you are wondering, I have 5 kids -- three of them are teens right now! So . . . as they say, been there; done that; and got the T-shirt to prove it. I hope you have a little joy in your life today. Above all -- pray, pray and pray more for those two who will one day be choosing the nursing home you live in. M.

Hi, W.. I attended a class called Love and Logic that I think might help you begin to build a foundation to overcome your problem. I think the class will be offered again in February at Unity Church of the Hills (the class is not affiliated with the church - it is just held there).

In the meantime, you might find some of the Love and logic books helpful They have things like "Raising the odds of raising resposible kids" and more at http://www.loveandlogic.com/.

I hope this helps.
Terry B

Wow! You've certainly gotten some interesting advice here.

Rather than stripping your children's lives of all that is fun and joyful (No Christmas? Really???), I would think that this is an excellent opportunity for you to teach your girls about how to deal with unpleasant circumstances. YOU are the example to them of how they should handle people. Would you want them to hit someone who was not being nice to them or punish them by taking their belongings?

I recommend you check out the book How to Talk so your Children Will Listen and Listen so They Will Talk. It's really h*** o* both teens AND parents to deal with the long, slow, separation that happens during this period of your lives. You both need a lot of support during this transition. Your girls are learning how to become adults in this crazy world. You are their primary example of how adults behave. This book has excellent advice for reconnecting with your children so you can build positive relationships based on mutual respect rather than control.

Best of luck to you all!
T.

Hi W.,
By no means am I an expert is this area, but will share with you what seemed to help when my girls were teens. Sometimes it is the culture they are watching, listening to...movies and radio....or friends....and are mirroring what they are seeing and hearing. Perhaps if you find some of it that is inappropriate steer them away from it. Also, I would find at times I myself would get sarcastic back with them....I changed and modeled being respectful in my interaction with them...and held my tongue...my volume..said please, thank you..listened to them....this works. The other part is that they do have to know you are the authority and will not tolerate disrespect...there does have to be a consequence when they disrespect...and do not back down. They choose their own conseqences by choosing how they behave. Although kids hate it....they do sense that you "love" them when you won't allow them to act in such rude behavior. You want better for them!!
And at the right time demonstrating love to them...kind words etc....and last but not least Pray!!
Hope this helps..
D.

Just by wanting to help your daughters is proof that you are a good mom! First, a lot of prayer will help you and them. Second, what matters to them? Is it their privacy or social groups or team organizations? what matters to them will make the biggest difference to them when it get taken away. Disrespect is not an option.
Are they wanting more "family" time. Do they disrespect because they feel they aren't in any decision making in the family? Remember to do everything with love. It is easy to love them when they are good, as parents we have to be the "adults" and love them when they are bad. This is hard b/c I only received a little information. I would also check with their teachers and mom's of their friends. Sometimes they can see problems/solutions clearer than we can b/c they are on the outside. Continue to stay open and confident in yourself. I have 3 kids and one is 14. I have been married 17 years. I hope this will help you. Ps. Give them a very Merry Christmas.
Humble

I'm going to go a different way. Yes what all the ladies say is great. Take away everything but what is needed on a day to day basis.

I think you need to talk to your daughters openly. Tell them how you are feeling- OVERWHELMED!!!! Tell them that you can't do it any more and what it will come to. I also think you need to have some type of church involvement- if you aren't religious then some counseling. Also maybe going on a family vacation/retreat w/ no phones, tv, mp3's or other distractions [for you too]. Having some one on one time with each girl too.

Hope this helped. Good Luck.

Stick by your guns! If you say no Christmas than NO Christmas!
Have you asked them why they are being disrespectful? I have 5 children and what I have learned is that you teach people (all people) how to treat you. So some where along the way they found that you would accept being treated that way. When others notice their behavior, do the other people say something to them? I would start with that. Ask your friends and family to say something to the girls when they catch them speaking to you that way. And I would also sit down with the girls and ask them why they talk to you and your husband that way. Ask them what you should do to change that behavior. Ask them what they would do and tell them you wont accept that behavior any longer. Don'T take away their privileges, instead make them earn all their privileges. If they want to watch tv, they have to do >>>> if they want to play the game system, they have to earn it by doing laundry or whatever. Perhaps they can earn something extra by treating you and your husband with respect.
Just my opinion.
Thanks for reading, good luck!
M.

Make sure you follow through with your threat. Take that day to spend time with them and talk with them. Bake cookies together, Dad too. Or something. Play table games. But, you threatened no gifts - do it! And don't you dare feel guilty about it. If they get allowance or have money somehow, you could fine them for every insult or rude remark. I, as a high school teacher, used to make my students say 5 nice things about someone that they were rude to to avoid punishment. They hated that, but would do it. Keep showing them love no matter what they say. Keep punishing for completely disrespectful behavior - but keep in mind their age and give them some room for talk. It is natural at this age. You can be sarcastic with them during their attitude. They relate to that. Tell them they need an attitude adjustment and don't have to say all their thoughts outloud. Keep experiementing to find something that will work. But, sarcasm and laughing off the small stuff will defeat their purpose - which is to get a reaction out of you. Maybe run and hug them, like tackling them, every time they say something. Embarrass and shock them back. I don't know the extent or seriousness of the matter. So, I will say that if it is extreme disrespect, you have to punish. Otherwise, blow them off.

First of all your a good mom because you are looking for help! Loveandlogic.com is a great place to start. I have 5 girls and with 3 we went to counseling. The psychologist recommended love and logic. Sometimes teenagers just like to argue and fight with parents. How you respond is so important. I would give them an answer and that was the end of the conversation. Keep your calm--don't let them upset you. Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend is also good. Do Christmas. It's important. They need to feel loved.
There is no easy solution but you will get through this!

If their friends see it, make a point of having their friends leave the house when they behave like that. Let them know that they will not have their friends in the house again when they behave like that. Let their friends hear you, so that they will know why they are being told to leave, and that it is not their fault that they are disrespectful to you and your husband. Take away something also when they tell you no. Let them know that the next time they tell you know on something that you will tell them no when they want something. It worked with my teenage daughter any hopefully it will work for yours. But this is also part of growing up and showing that they are their own person, even though that person is not liked at this time. Good luck been there and glad it is over.

First of all...they are at a really bad age, too old to be little girls and not old enough to do the things older teens do. You say you work full-time. What do they do after school until you arrive home? Do you know who they hang out with? Maybe their friends are having a negative influence on them. I don't want to preach or pry, but are you/they regular church goers? They will learn the value of respect there. Are they involved in any afterschool activities at all? Do they have household chores to do when they are at home? Maybe a visit or two with a family counselor would help. Somethimes just the threat to seeing one helps.Have you talked with the school counselor? Are they disrespectful to their teachers? I vote for the family counselor visit.

I MUST FIST SAY THAT I DIDN'T READ ALL THE PREVIOUS RESPONSES, I APOLOGIZE!
I never acted like that with my mom, but here is what I would have wanted her to do if I had. You have to look at things from their perspective. Maybe you can plan a girls day out, something that will grab their attention that you know they will want to do. Say it is going to see a movie of their choice, that is within reason of course, then out for ice cream-whatever they will be interested in. Go have the fun and when you go to get that ice cream let things progress naturally for a bit then say that you would like it if you could talk about what has been going on with them. Say that you have noticed some changes in their behavior and ask if something has been bothering them. Maybe they will feel like you aren't being accusatory and feel teamed up on if you do it this way...they might open up a little more. Let them know, without being vile, that they are hurting your feelings....be vulnerable with them and let them see the emotion behind it and not just you yelling at them about it. Let them know that you enjoy spending time with them, and would like to do things more often, but that you don't feel appreciated by them. Also let them know that you understand they may feel like you and your husband team up against them-but they do the same to you. Just try to keep your tone in check, so you don't start to sound mean!
Do you get what I am saying? Sometimes if teens are approached with more openness and with your guards down, they will let you in a whole lot easier than if you act strictly as MOM the disciplinarian.
I hope this helps....it may have been 10 years ago that I was a teen, but I have a pretty good understanding of them!

The books, programs and websites offered by others should be very helpful. Also, look for books on the 'teen brain'. New science info today may help you better understand them and they to understand themselves. Not for excuses, though.

Hold a family meeting. Get their worries & concerns & frustrations and state yours. Agree on respectful ways in the home and in public. This behavior can't be all great for them in front of their peers.

All 3 of you go online and take the "Myers Briggs Personality Test" which is a great indicator of each type of person. It will show your interest in them as individuals.

Stand your ground on discipline...as most everyone else has advised.

Go on a mother/daughter(s) weekend horseback adventure. The Silver Spur Guest Ranch used to have these. Girls start to appreciate moms better when working together. This one probably isn't as geared towards 'renewal and respect' as some of them are. I went to a ladies weekend at a ranch in Rome, GA. They had a mom/daugh. weekend that really worked them all and had envening time to geared for bonding. It was meant to heal wounds. Google it!

Good Luck.

12 and especially 14 is plenty old enough to start volunteering. Have them do something for someone who may not have the priviledge, social benefits they have. Funny what seeing what life "Could be like" may change kids. (Crisis center for the 14 year old, maybe teaching kids to read for the 12 year old)........ I don't know, it may not make a difference, but if they have never done things like that it may change their attitude. Also maybe a bible study that you all do together... oh, they probably won't like it, but ... try "Experiencing God" It has workbooks for adults and teens. They are a bit different, but only in the delivery of the text. The study brings to light the respect we can get within ourselves, when knowing what God wants us "to get" about him and our own lives. (Amazon has the books)

Just a few thoughts, good luck.

Hi W.,
You did not really give too much info on exactly what they are doing, however, you did not mention what interests they have either? I noticed both you and your husband work full time, so what are the girls involved in after school? Sports, dance, art, church? If nothing then that is part of the problem. You need to find something they can do to keep them busy and involved. Maybe the truth is they have no respect for themselves right now so they are acting out to you. Give them some type of activity they can join and I bet their attitudes will change. Hope this helps. I am a mom of 8 kids, 4 of each and the girls have always been more of a challenge than the boys in our family. Good luck!

Spanking has help in the past. But today most parents don't believe in spanking their children.
Try setting boundaries and be consistent with your children. Giving in after a week of good behavior to get a phone back or their makeup back is not going to cut it. At the Christian book store their are several books on setting boundaries. Boundaries in dating, in marriage, and families. But you must be consistent. You are the parent not them. You have the control not them. Sit down and talk to them. Ask them what is going on and really LISTEN TO THEM, not just listen to come up with a response. But Listen and PRAY and ask God for help. If you look in your concordance you will see He has a lot to say about raising children. Look under children.

Mary

Dear W.,
The answer, I think, lies in your problem. You said, "I have started dreading the weekends when I will be home with them." Maybe they feel like you aren't spending enough time with them. I am pretty sure they are trying to get your attention, and this is the only way that children know how, by acting out. Yes, they may be 12 and 14, but they still can't think like we do. Maybe there is something bothering them and they don't know how to talk about it, or maybe they just want to spend a little time with you. Whatever it is, they just don't know how to talk to you about it. I know you are not "the worst mom," you are a great mom, you are taking care of them the best you can, but we all need guidance from time to time! Good luck with them! I hope I helped a little!
Sincerely,
O.
P.S. I still think you should follow through with the Christmas present thing, so they will believe you next time you give punishment.

You are not alone!! I've found the resources at www.loveandlogic.com to be life saving for me as a parent. You can take back your control and earn the respect of your daughters. I think it is great that you are asking for help - we all have growing pains (alot of times our kids are the catalysts). Now is definitely time to gather resources and gain your energy back. Good luck!

I have LOTS of experience with a disrespectful daughter! She started when she was about 10 and didn't stop until she was pregnant with her first child! (She was 25 then!)

Unfortunately, it seems that kids think they know everything and that their parents are absolutely "out-of-it". My approach would be to not only take away their material possessions, but their activities, as well.

I know girls that age LOVE to be out with their friends at the mall, going to movies, or over to their friends' houses. I would tell the girls that they must EARN these privileges. Set up a chart if you need to. They get a "check" on the chart for the days that they show you the proper respect. If no respect, no check. They must earn a decided-on-in-advance number of checks before they can go anywhere. (I'd make this at least 7 checks--one for every day of the week.) If they don't have 7 checks by the end of 2 weeks, they start all over. (In other words, the checks can't carry over for more than 2 weeks.) If the girls want to actually DO anything, this might work.

You didn't mention if you are a church-going family. If not, I suggest that you start. The girls will be taught that respecting their parents is a command from God, not just a suggestion. They will be judged for this treatment some day, you can be sure of that. (I used to be horrible to my mother, and it came back to haunt me!!!)

I hope this helps a bit.

I see you have already received a ton of advice. I have gone thru this with my teenage son. We were very close and then he just shut down on me. So I started doing things one on one with him. Yes, it was pretty much one-sided conversation for awhile, but not for long. Another thing is to get involved to know their friends. This way when they are telling you about them - you'll know who they are speaking of. With two girls that close in age - I would try the one-on-one thing separately to start out.

Good luck! But if you make "threats" you have to stick to it and follow through. So instead - have them earn things instead of take them away.

Hi W.,

I know how hard it is to try to be a good mom. There are no easy answers! I have an 11 y.o. boy and a 13 y.o. girl, and we struggle with this issue sometimes, too, so I'm no expert. But when you talked about punishment, it struck a chord with me. I totally agree with the other moms that said not to threaten them with something you will not follow through on. Additionally, I feel strongly that when our discipline isn't working, you need to make sure that the item or privilege that the child loses is something meaningful to that child. If it's not something they care deeply about, it may have no impact.

Recently I wrote to Mamasource looking for advice for how to deal with our previously near-perfect daughter. We had moved here over the summer, and she was seriously misbehaving for the first time (had run up a couple thousand dollars in texting charges before we even knew she was doing it, stealing back her cell phone and talking late at night, opening a "secret" e-mail account we didn't know about--pretty innocent messages, but still!). She kept telling me she didn't know why she was doing it, that she "couldn't stop herself," all with dead eyes.

I had taken away her cell phone, her computer privileges, etc., made her keep her door open (rent house--couldn't remove it), but it got so bad that I threatened to strip her room completely. Well, I found her having taken her cell phone from the charger, talking under her pillow late at night again. She said that she expected to get caught. So I immediately started taking her "fun" things from her room. Her cool new bedding, her fun decorations, her jewelry. It didn't seem to make any impression--in fact, she said she expected it. But when I started removing her books... Well, that was another matter entirely. Suddenly she card A LOT. And when my husband and I started talking about finding a new home for her cat, again, she suddenly cared a lot.

I know this sounds extreme and punitive, but we were feeling very desperate. I had made a threat, and now I needed to follow through. But we also made sure to tell her that we were only doing this because we loved her, we felt that she was a very special girl, and that she was on the wrong path, one that would never lead anywhere good. We made sure to tell her repeatedly how much we loved her, and gave her lots of hugs, whether she wanted them or not.

After a couple days without books, we started to see some changes in her attitude. She seemed to get tired of being cold and distant. She started laughing at family jokes, hanging out with us more, etc. Soon she was asking if she could have just one book back. We told her that we'd have to see a difference over the whole weekend, not just for a day.

Within a week, we had our old daughter back. I think she saw that we cared enough about her to go to extremes. Again, I think making sure she knew that we were doing what we did because we loved her and wanted the best for her, not just that we were mad, was very important.

All this to say that maybe if you threatened to make Christmas a much smaller present event, it might be okay to follow through. It might make a real impression on them, especially if you combined it with spending time volunteering to help people who don't have much. I think in our culture we struggle with trying to give our kids a lot because we love them so much. They don't realize that so many others aren't blessed with the love and material things that they take for granted.

Hope this helps! Wishing you and yours a very Merry Christmas!

Counselling, for you and your husband, for the girls, and as a family. It won't get better unless something changes, and if you have done all you can, reach out for help. If not a counsellor, a minister?

My 20 year old daughter was just like that. Things went from bad to worse as she got older. It appears that children today are different than we were as kids (imagine that!), and so when what we know does not work, we go to someone who may have other ideas. I wish I would have.

Good luck to you!

Let me start by saying your not a bad mother. I think we have all been there at some point. I'm 29 and even I feel this generation seems to feel they are owed gifts and privaledges. Here are a few of my suggestions. Well not sure how you believe but I was brought up with spankings and then you graduated to a face slap if you smarted off. It didn't take too many times to realize that if I smarted and got slapped that it hurt. They may be now too old for a spanking (Although I do know kids that age that get spanked) but I was told you are never too old. Taking the phone away yeah that hurts them for a little bit but I have even made my son (now 7)choose toys to get rid of. It started as a punishment and every time he acted up he received a warning and if he continued he had to choose one of his favorite toys to get rid of and I usually would grab a couple he had to choose between and a couple of times even made him be the one to take it to Goodwill or a charity to hand to them. This usually was the worst punishment in his eyes even though he had 1000s of toys. Eventually this turned into every Christmas and Birthday he would get rid of toys and take them to those less fortunate and actually likes doing it now but at the time it was a huge deal. I have also thrown toys in the trash and once they are there they stay there. It didn't take him long to realize that all of those meant they were gone for good. If you don't believe in spankings then take the phone away for a long period. First a month then several months then a year if it continues. Instead of buying gifts for them make them help you pick out gifts for another family or work in a soup kitchen or something similar. I've noticed that when my son began realizing that he had things good he straighted up. We still have issues off and on but not as much. You could also make them work for their cell phone. They cost money monthly. For them to keep it they have to do things around the house or babysit and if they can't pay for it then they haven't earned it and therefore it goes away until they come up with the money to pay for the minutes. I wasn't ever punished with that but when I was old enough for a car my parents gave me the option to buy the car or pay the car insurance. I chose the car bc then I could choose what I wanted but I respected my stuff a lot more when I had to pay for it and just because I bought it didn't mean it couldn't be taken away. Make sure you stand your ground and demand respect. how they are treating you and your husband is unexceptable and should not be over looked or tolerated. Unfortunately they have figured out how to still do it and still get what they want in the end. The punishment now needs to be upgraded in one form or another. Remember back to when you were growing up and what your parents did. If it worked do it, if not take out of it what did or what would have worked. It's ok to be the bad guy and sometimes you have to. Good Luck

Welcome to being the mother of teenagers. first of all, Don't let them talk to you like that!! Tell them the disrespect is unacceptable and they better get a handle on it or else there will be consequences. Ground them to their room every time they talk to you like that.
Personally i think not getting them christmas presents is a little harsh.
Show them who's the parent, and don't take the backtalk.

It happens often at this age-so don't feel singled out. Their friends are doing the same thing-trust me. Don't give in and don't give up. Stand strong and be reassured you are doing the right thing. I would make sure that I was respectful of them-their privacy and their feelings. I would model the respect even though you don't see it returned. I would buy whatever Christmas gifts I can afford and not tie it in with the respect issue-a lesson in unconditional love. But I wouldn't go overboard either. I often tell my children that you can love someone but not like them very much sometimes. SO when they misbehave I remind them I love them but I am disappointed in their behavior /choices and I might not like them very much right now. Your girls need to know you love them unconditionally. They will probably test that also! See if you can find something fun to do this weekend that will be on neutral ground. Call them on the disrespect the minute it happens. Make sure you separate disrespect from rebellious behavior, dishonesty, and peer pressure. Be firm, correct them and then let it go-don't keep going on and on. Be consistent and if you need to explain the expectations in advance. Good luck! If it is any consolation, I teach 8th grade and my previous principal used to say that there are mass murders, mafia hit men, drug kingpins and 8th grade girls-they are all completely without remorse and ruthless. Of course he said it with a smile. Keep in mind that this too shall pass! Good luck!

Ohhh thank goodness there is someone that has the same experience! My 15 yr old son is the same way. I hate going home and when the phone rings my anxiety hits the roof when he calls me. Same situation that we are not easy on him. But the cycle keeps happening.. Nothing is working.I have started attending parenting support group just to keep my sanity and to not react like a crazy person!! I have found this has helped some as the calmer I am and the more boundaries I hold it subsides for a few days. This helps just knowing I am not alone.